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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Will Religion Survive the Internet?
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Speaking personally, the internet has done wonders for my own religion. While the article makes good points, it does seem to just be talking about conservative strands of religion. I would imagine the internet will have done good things for people looking for less-conservative religious organisations - for example, wedding websites can lead people to churches to get married in that are more in tune with their values.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Speaking personally, the internet has done wonders for my own religion. While the article makes good points, it does seem to just be talking about conservative strands of religion. I would imagine the internet will have done good things for people looking for less-conservative religious organisations - for example, wedding websites can lead people to churches to get married in that are more in tune with their values.
This. The one thing I can't argue with in the article is:
quote:
A traditional religion, one built on “right belief,” requires a closed information system. That is why the Catholic Church put an official seal of approval on some ancient texts and banned or burned others. It is why some Bible-believing Christians are forbidden to marry nonbelievers. It is why Quiverfull moms home school their kids from carefully screened text books. It is why, when you get sucked into conversations with your fundamentalist uncle George from Florida, you sometimes wonder if he has some superpower that allows him to magically close down all avenues into his mind.
And the list goes on - I'm sure everyone can think of more examples. Conservative religion is just one manifestation of a particular mindset, and it's that mindset that is threatened by the Internet. Sadly it won't wither and die, because new people always come along to fill the gaps, but hopefully each generation will have less and less influence. You will know the truth, and the truth shall set you free ...
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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EtymologicalEvangelical
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# 15091
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Posted
Yes.
The internet is the best thing that has ever happened to Christian apologetics.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
Even if you define the argument to 'will closed-information-system fundamentalist mindsets' survive the internet, it doesn't get any more believable. The internet spreads information, but it's a liberal misconception that more information equals more open-mindedness. Often it causes a reaction against so many competing views as people search for something 'true' to hold on to.
And the internet doesn't just provide open-minded scientific-rational information. If anything it is a much bigger propagator of fundamentalist mindsets, prejudices, and closed-information conspiracy systems than otherwise.
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
I tend to agree with the responses. I manage our congregation's facebook page. I am astounded at the positive feedback we have gotten. At times we connect with over 150,000 people (mostly friends of friends). We have had clicks from all over the world. We definitely see it as an outreach tool.
Our pastor does the twitter for the church. Not sure what that reach has been.
Even now, though, I am somewhat concerned that facebook is starting to become passe. It is very hard to keep up with all the social networks that are out there.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Some of the examples given in the article seem to contradict the thesis itself.
eg. Religion requires a closed information system, as exemplified by your fundy uncle who won't listen to your arguments.
The fact that he's having that debate with you in the first place is proof that he's not living in a "closed information system". You're right there in front of him, giving him arguments against his beliefs. Which he's determined not to be open-minded about.
So, why would Uncle Fundy suddenly become more vulnerable to the same arguments when they're presented on the internet? He'll just ignore Richard Dawkins' blog as resolutely as he ignores you. Probably won't even click on the link.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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poileplume
Shipmate
# 16438
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Posted
But can it survive the invention of printing?
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Please note I am quite severely dyslexic
Posts: 319 | From: Quebec | Registered: May 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Yet another just-so story about religion - who the hell produces them all? There are stories about the origin of religion, its development, and its eventual demise, and they are nearly all devoid of any empirical content. Do they appeal to atheists? Wish fulfilment maybe.
[ 17. January 2013, 15:55: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Did books survive television? Yes. And now Kindle has come along, which encourages people to read even more books. Religious observance will change, and adapt, but not disappear.
The Church of Fools was great, BTW - I went to church more times when that was around than I'd ever done.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
Conservative religion is just one manifestation of a particular mindset, and it's that mindset that is threatened by the Internet.
But the net surely also strengthens conservative religion, because it enables conservatives to find each other and to offer support and share ideas.
The most inward looking religious groups won't use the internet anyway. Do the Amish bother with it? Their numbers have increased rapidly, so I hear. I've read that the weakness of the more regular kind of American evangelicalism, though, is that it merges very easily into the surrounding culture; this kind of conservatism is probably constantly at risk of being whittled away from the inside out.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Russ
Old salt
# 120
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Posted
My guess would be that there's a small kernel of truth behind this story. It goes something like:
- genuine exchange of views with people of different religious outlooks tends to undermine the idea that one's own religious tradition has all the answers and marks the boundary between the virtuous saved people and the evil damned.
However, in typical journalistic style, the article overstates its case.
The existence of Internet forums encourages but does not guarantee that such exchange of views will take place.
And the black-and-white "we're saved & the rest are damned" idea is not an essential component of all religion. It's part of the dark, abusive, side of some prominent religious traditions, but no more than that.
Best wishes,
Russ
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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas
Posts: 3169 | From: rural Ireland | Registered: May 2001
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
The amount of anti-religious vitriol on the internet is what concerns me......definitely rubs off on the fence sitters.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I thought religion had trouble surviving the generation born and lived through the decade that we call the 1960s, but is really probably 1965-75. The religious decline began when we rejected authority, wars, controls on sexual and social behaviour, and started smoking drugs. It continued as we were coached into becoming consumers.
On the other side, it is a bonus to have the internet. Just consider what this forum discusses. Perhaps it is church-centred religion that will not survive.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Theory seems to be the internet is bad for religion because:
- Science is Bad for Religion
- Weird Beliefs Will Get Outed
- A Lot of Nasty Stuff Done By Some Religious People Will Get More Known
- The Internet Will Provide More Support For People Getting Out of Religion
- People can show off that its OK to be no longer faithful
- People will talk about the commonalities and thus become less dogmatic/religious.
First heard those discussion points about 25 years ago:
In my Protestant Reformation text book of original source material.
At the same time, some guy by the name of Rich Rosen was throwing stuff like this all over net.xian and other talk forums.
Religion is still here.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Revelle
Ship's Bassist for Hire
# 8554
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Posted
I concur with the above discussions, especially concerning fundamentalism. There is a very real danger for fundamentalist views, since a good many are based on a very narrow interpretation of specific doctrines/scriptures, and being opened to new views of various subjects is ever dangerous to such a faith.
However, I think the internet (in general, and not to the same extent) accomplishes the same thing that higher education, or even education in general, tends to accomplish, and that is the broadening of horizons. Just learning about other people's experiences can have an effect on one's own beliefs, since at it's core religion is based on man's experience of God, or spirituality.
For the very reason that experience is so personal there will always be those who hold onto religion, and those who will state that they are completely wrong or off the hook.
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"We need our Bible Belt to hold up our Truth Trousers." -Grits
Posts: 350 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Sep 2004
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
At Gerre Hancock's requiem mass last year, Fr. Mead of St. Thomas Church 5th Ave. mentioned that the church temporarily bought added server capacity to avoid a crash for those listening on the Internet all over the world. He has statistics on where they are. Some of the regular listeners to the webcast services are in countries in which the powers-that-be would not approve.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
The big question is: Will atheism survive the internet? It seems not all is rosy in that garden at the moment, judging by what I have just watched (see link).
(I know that's only Youtube, but even still, it indicates that the proud boasts of some time ago are looking rather lame now.)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Religion as we have known it may not survive the Internet . Is that necessarily a bad thing when one considers the corruptions and abuses that have occurred at it's hands ?
European Christianity suffered a mortal blow with the catastrophe that was WW1, when all the major Christian Nations fought eachother . The events of WW2 damaged people's faith even further.
Mainstream UK Christianity did however retain it's prominence until the mid 70s, but it has become a mere shadow of it's former self before the influence of the Internet.
Religion will though ,IMO, survive right up to the end of humanity. Even if humanity survives on into ad infinitum it will take religion with it wherever it goes. Will it be Christianity ? Probably a mixture of all religions .
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
There are a number of issues in this question. Can faith survive the internet - this is a different question. Can religion as it is survive major cultural changes? No, and it shouldn't, because it should change with cultural changes.
But what is the internet, at its heart? availability of information and connection to other people. Freedom of Information is always dangerous to those who want to control information access, and some parts of "religion" have wanted to do this. They are in danger, but will, as others have pointed out, normally react by rejecting anything they do not agree with. But it is a real challenge, and I can only hope that they do not survive.
Connection with others is a real positive to faith development, because you can connect with others who both agree with you (and can provide support) and those who disagree with you (and can challenge your pre-conceptions). That is a real positive for real faith, especially faith that is not prepared to accept the dominant belief system.
So, the end of religion? No, of course not. But if faith structures do not adapt, they will die (and are dying), but faith is so much bigger than a particular cultural mindset. It has to, or it dies, and it dies because it is not big enough.
Christianity is quite big enough. It will survive - thrive no less - in the internet era. The established church, OTOH, will change or die. And new structures will develop and grow.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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angelfish
Shipmate
# 8884
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Posted
Agree with most of what has been said so far, and let's not forget that it isn't just faith that will survive, but faith in Jesus. I can't imagine He is powerless to stop some disaffected tweeters destroying what He has established.
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"As God is my witness, I WILL kick Bishop Brennan up the arse!"
Posts: 1017 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2004
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
The amount of anti-religious vitriol on the internet is what concerns me......definitely rubs off on the fence sitters.
It's easy to set up a website, so why can't the religious produce the sort of stuff to attract people in the same numbers?
Arguments about the damage (or not) that Dawkins & co do to religion rarely seem to consider that religion may be failing to offer anything as appealing. I know there are good Christian apologists but somehow their books don't sell like Dawkins et al.
The threat of the internet to religions is you can't just say: here it is, lots of books available, it's all up to you. Gramps49's congregation are at least having a go.
quote:
Originally posted by E-E
The big question is: Will atheism survive the internet? It seems not all is rosy in that garden at the moment, judging by what I have just watched (see link).
(I know that's only Youtube, but even still, it indicates that the proud boasts of some time ago are looking rather lame now.)
Alternatively Youtube atheists feel that they've won so don't need to make any more. But both your example presenters seem sad, unappealing and silly. And there are similar sad, unappealing and silly religious presenters. If you think that sort of stuff is what it takes (for either side) to make a difference I'd recommend you get out more before the real world out there it goes into administration. At least the Druidess is intelligent, amusing, nuanced - do you think she wants a 60 year old atheist groupie?
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Enlightenment, Knowledge and Religion often don't go hand-in-hand. Take, for example, the observation that the churches which most require you to suspend rational thought at the porch are often the ones filled with Doctors, Accountants, Business Executives and other similar university-educated, successful types. So it doesn't mean that the more people read alternative views and information on the Internet, the less likely they are to be interested in religion. It is as if many people compartmentalise their faith and their secular understanding into two completely separate parts of their lives, and this isn't likely to change.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
On a practical note I was a bit put off religion when I'd been on an Internet church for a while . Much of it was sweetness and light , but endless arguments over what particular Bible passages did or didn't mean became tedious .
I find strife in a Church particularly unattractive, the trouble with the Internet is that it makes strife very public.
No worse than the Reformation I suppose . If Christianity could survive that it will surely survive the Net.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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barrea
Shipmate
# 3211
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Posted
I can't speak for other religeons but I am sure that Christianity will survive the internet.
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Therefore having been justified by faith,we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:1
Posts: 1050 | From: england | Registered: Aug 2002
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barrea
Shipmate
# 3211
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Posted
I can't speak for other religions but I am sure that Christianity will survive the internet, after all it has survived two thousand years of persecution which is still going on in many countries in the world.
If you are grounded in the faith you can tell when wrong doctrine is being preached or expounded on the net.
I just get concerned that young Christians without much knowlege of the faith could get led astray by the many of the false teachers that are all over the internet.
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Therefore having been justified by faith,we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:1
Posts: 1050 | From: england | Registered: Aug 2002
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Imersge Canfield
Shipmate
# 17431
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Posted
This is an interesting and inspiring contribution.
interfaithenabler.tumblr.com/post/41133805162/there-is-nothing-more-important-i-believe-for
Added an i to the front of your link, because that fixes the link, and I'm guessing it's what you intended.
Gwai,
Purgatory Host
[ 21. January 2013, 20:45: Message edited by: Gwai ]
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'You must not attribute my yielding, to sinister appetites'
"Preach the gospel and only use jewellry if necessary." (The Midge)
Posts: 419 | From: Sun Ship over Grand Fenwick Duchy | Registered: Nov 2012
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Thread Necromancer
Necromantic Sock
# 17559
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Posted
I run my church's website.
I am always late on principle, my principle being that punctuality is the thief of time. - Oscar Wilde
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Did you hear? The Titanic sank!
Posts: 10 | From: Bottom of Page 2 | Registered: Feb 2013
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Availability of information and connection to other people.
That's what it is now, despite sophisticated attempts to kill these features. I wouldn't guarantee it will stay that way. The Internet has also caused the oblivion of alternative sources of information, connection, and analysis. It is a marvelous distributor of random primary-source material from unprecedented hundreds of millions of sources (e.g. on Youtube), but at the expense of professional secondary sources and interpretation. It could disappear in an instant, and if it does, what will save us from an instant dark age?
quote:
The established church, OTOH, will change or die.
I'm unclear as to whether you are referring to the established church of England or of Denmark. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
[ 19. February 2013, 00:20: Message edited by: Alogon ]
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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