Ship of Fools: New ++Armagh, old wine in old wineskins

Thread: New ++Armagh, old wine in old wineskins Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=024564

Posted by Ronald Binge (# 9002) on :

Rome has appointed Msgr Eamon Martin, currently Diocesan Administrator of Derry as Coadjutor ++Armagh, assisting ++Sean Brady and will succeed him on whenever Rome deems he can retire.

Early last year I was in Pennyburn Church in Derry with my parents, and it was interesting to hear Msgr Martin's homily. If his homily is anything to go by, Rome has decided that a competent manager of men leavened with a folksy nostalgia for the Ireland of large families, obedience to authority and the family Rosary is the way to navigate out of the self imposed troubles of the Catholic Church in Ireland over the last twenty years, which were essentially the outworking of its abuse of its absolute authority.

So, to paraphrase the late ++John Charles McQuaid after Vatican II, no change will trouble the tranquil Christian lives of the Catholics of Ireland.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
So, to paraphrase the late ++John Charles McQuaid after Vatican II, no change will trouble the tranquil Christian lives of the Catholics of Ireland.

The turf still simmers in the hearth, Mrs Doyle is plying Father with tea, and every evening Pappy entertains his 11 rosy cheeked children with his trusty fiddle. Is that a true picture of C21 Ireland, and if so, do you prefer it that way?

Posted by Ronald Binge (# 9002) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
So, to paraphrase the late ++John Charles McQuaid after Vatican II, no change will trouble the tranquil Christian lives of the Catholics of Ireland.
The turf still simmers in the hearth, Mrs Doyle is plying Father with tea, and every evening Pappy entertains his 11 rosy cheeked children with his trusty fiddle. Is that a true picture of C21 Ireland, and if so, do you prefer it that way?

I certainly don't.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

Even though non-diocesan bishops often go to Armagh (William Conway went from auxiliary in 1963, Tom Fee aka Tomás Ó Fiaich from Maynooth in 1977), and Irish shipmates are likely better-informed than I, but it initially looks like a vote of non-confidence in the existing Irish hierarchy. Some news reports suggest that some candidates had declined consideration.

Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :

I have known Mgr Martin well for five years now, Ronald, and I can assure you that he is not Sean Brady redux, let alone one given to nostalgia for a supposed past. Neither, unsurprisingly, does he believe in the brave new world of secularised post-Catholic Ireland.

His appointment indicates to me that the Holy See, at least in the person of Abp Brown, is deadly serious about reforming the Irish Hierarchy both in kind and number.

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

I hope you're right Trisagion, but what I've seen and heard bears an uncanny resemblance to De Valere's dream of a 'Catholic' Ireland theme park [shudder]

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

I think Trisagion is correct in that the Vatican (as well as the Irish) feel that things need a change in direction. The Irish hierarchy's credibility, in part due to their own failings during the child abuse crisis, is at a low, and changes at the top are a good place to start. What is less clear is the direction of these changes. Even if the Vatican and Irish church figures are in agreement, it will takes time to change a large ship's direction. What would concern me is the possibility that personnel and structural changes alone would be deemed to be sufficient.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
Neither, unsurprisingly, does he believe in the brave new world of secularised post-Catholic Ireland.

Which is as well as such a place - as we know - doesn't exist. It's much more complex and challenging than mere secularism! I'm sure there'll be a lot of good will towards him and his new role. I wish him well.

Posted by Ronald Binge (# 9002) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
I have known Mgr Martin well for five years now, Ronald, and I can assure you that he is not Sean Brady redux, let alone one given to nostalgia for a supposed past. Neither, unsurprisingly, does he believe in the brave new world of secularised post-Catholic Ireland.

His appointment indicates to me that the Holy See, at least in the person of Abp Brown, is deadly serious about reforming the Irish Hierarchy both in kind and number.

Thank you Trisagion, you have given me some hope that Msgr Martin won't be what I feared, another ++Armagh in the mould of ++Brady. In that case I join with Anselmina in wishing him well and sincerely hope that the next twenty years of the Church in Ireland will not be as defensive as the last.

Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Which is as well as such a place - as we know - doesn't exist. It's much more complex and challenging than mere secularism!

I agree but I do sometimes get the feeling that such a place is part of the desiderata of the Dublin 6 based authors of op-ed pieces in the Irish Times and the Irish Independent,

Posted by Imersge Canfield (# 17431) on :

then, there's the cowardly old world of lazy 'thinking'

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

Dublin 6 is still going to church! It's not as clear cut as you might think.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

I thought that they were in Dublin 4.

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

Ok, I'll be a little clearer - it's certain churches that have seen a rapid decline, not areas, and I can understand it. It can't be easy to continue to worship in a church where a former priest was an abuser or where abuse by that priest actually occurred. There are people who went to other churches and some that didn't go anywhere else, but overall there isn't the mass exodus to secularism that the press would have liked.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0