Ship of Fools: MW2341: Grace Cathedral SF

Thread: MW2341: Grace Cathedral SF Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Hooker's Trick (# 89) on :

The report on Grace Cathedral records the opening words as 'Blessed be the one holy and living God.'

Where does that come from?

Posted by Comper's Child (# 10580) on :

I don't want to know...

Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :

Finding it in various places, including the opening of the Trinity Sunday service at Washington National Cathedral, among other places. So, if the OP is asking for a source--not sure. But if instead it's a "Isn't this wacky" (which the following post seems to take it as), I'd say it's looks fairly common.

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
The report on Grace Cathedral records the opening words as 'Blessed be the one holy and living God.'

Where does that come from?

I believe it's from Enriching Our Worship, an authorized inclusive-language supplement published by Church Publishing.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
But if instead it's a "Isn't this wacky" (which the following post seems to take it as), I'd say it's looks fairly common.

Yeah, that stumps me as well. It's hardly a punk-rock lyric or anything.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

On the other hand, this sucks beyond words (from the MW):

quote:
There was coffee and tea only, dispensed in plastic recyclable cups. After taking a coffee I hung around for about ten minutes and was not spoken to by anyone.

Really? Badly done, Grace. [Disappointed]

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
The report on Grace Cathedral records the opening words as 'Blessed be the one holy and living God.'

Where does that come from?

I have run into it in Jewish accounts. I think that it's 18th century in origin.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Finding it in various places, including the opening of the Trinity Sunday service at Washington National Cathedral, among other places...

Certainly an odd choice for Trinity Sunday. That, of all days, should use the standard "Blessed be God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

How the heck does one respond to this one?

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

The Divine Liturgy of St John Crysostom begins

PRIEST: Blessed is the Kingdom of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: now and ever, and unto ages of ages.

That may have given them the idea.

At least they are beginning with a liturgical greeting, rather "Good morning, everyone and a very warm welcome to our eucharist particularly if you're visiting. Coffee and tea are served in the hall afterwards and if you are new here we would love to see you. This week is Doris Smith's eighty seventh birthday on Tuesday, and I'm sure we all wish her, Fred, Tracey, Wayne and the grandchildren the very best. Our service begins on page 3 of the service book, or page 5 if you have the blue books and we all say together "And also with you" after my introduction. And so we meet in the name of the Father..."

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

C of E, are you, O venbede, by any chance?? [Killing me]

Seriously, though, this does seem an odd intro to a service on Trinity Sunday (however hard that doctrine may be to explain or understand).

Otherwise, seems OK to me. IMHO.

Ian J.

Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :

Based on the report, it does appear that they've resolved that cannibal cult problem... [Devil]

[ 07. March 2012, 21:00: Message edited by: Siegfried ]

Posted by SeraphimSarov (# 4335) on :

It's not the first loony experiment at that Cathedral. The old seat of +Pike it was after all

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:

quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
The report on Grace Cathedral records the opening words as 'Blessed be the one holy and living God.'

Where does that come from?
I believe it's from Enriching Our Worship, an authorized inclusive-language supplement published by Church Publishing.

That is correct. It is one of five Opening Acclamations (based on liturgical season) for The Holy Eucharist. Page 50.

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
How the heck does one respond to this one?

The indicated response is, "Glory to God for ever and ever."

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I've no problem with the text: but it's a pity not to stick to a common text which can be said by heart without checking in the book.

Yes, Bishop's Finger. You guessed.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Based on the report, it does appear that they've resolved that cannibal cult problem...

Just wanted to let you know I saw that, Sieg, and I got it. [Big Grin]

Posted by New Yorker (# 9898) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Based on the report, it does appear that they've resolved that cannibal cult problem...

As I recall that was a subplot in some of the Tales of the City books. But wasn't that based on a real episode?

Posted by The Royal Spaniel (# 40) on :

Well they do seem to have Choral Evensong which I think is not all that common the other side of the pond. Definitely a point in its favour
So it canx't be that bad! [Two face]

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Royal Spaniel:
Well they do seem to have Choral Evensong which I think is not all that common the other side of the pond. Definitely a point in its favour
So it canx't be that bad!

I find the acclamation to be one of the best inclusive language ones that I have encountered. It doesn't slip into modalism.

That being said, I have visited many TEC places in real life, and the only time I've encountered this acclamation is at the aforementioned places, through their webcasts.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Based on the report, it does appear that they've resolved that cannibal cult problem...
As I recall that was a subplot in some of the Tales of the City books. But wasn't that based on a real episode?

Oh, good heavens, no. He made it all up.

From and SF Gate article:

quote:
I was constantly pushing the envelope," says Maupin, mentioning Gordon Pates, The Chronicle's managing editor then. "A lovely, avuncular man, he used to say to me: 'It's such a waste you're not dating girls. Homosexuality, transexuality, adultery --

the only thing you haven't got in here is cannibalism' -- and I immediately went back to my desk and concocted (a cannibal cult that practiced on the catwalk of Grace Cathedral)."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/05/01/DD205566.DTL#ixzz1oYld96QQ

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

I had read the stories before I ever had a chance to visit Grace Cathedral. I'll admit I looked around for the elevator, and tried to spot catwalks up above the vaulting.

Posted by Alogon (# 5513) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Royal Spaniel:
Well they do seem to have Choral Evensong which I think is not all that common the other side of the pond. Definitely a point in its favour
So it canx't be that bad!

Furthermore, I'm told that their arrangement for schooling the choristers at the cathedral school makes it the closest thing to a choir school in the entire country after St. Thomas 5th Ave.

Maintaining a first-rate choir of men and boys as the principal and standard singing group is a commitment that neither the National Cathedral nor Saint John the Divine has maintained. Not bad at all for a place that gets regularly dissed as loony-tunes.

Posted by CorgiGreta (# 443) on :

I'm sure that there are much better examples of bizarre practices in San Francisco churches.

Posted by NatDogg (# 14347) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Maintaining a first-rate choir of men and boys as the principal and standard singing group is a commitment that neither the National Cathedral nor Saint John the Divine has maintained. [/QB]

Okay Alogon, what have you against the National Cathedral Choir of Men and Boys? (I guess I won't even ask about the Men and Girls. . . )

Posted by The Royal Spaniel (# 40) on :

quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
I'm sure that there are much better examples of bizarre practices in San Francisco churches.

St.Gregory of Nyssa,perhaps? [Biased]

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Royal Spaniel:

quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
I'm sure that there are much better examples of bizarre practices in San Francisco churches.
St.Gregory of Nyssa,perhaps?

Pfft. St. Gregory's downright sedate and middle of the road compared to
Saint John Will-I-Am Coltrane African Orthodox Church.

Posted by Alogon (# 5513) on :

quote:
Originally posted by NatDogg:

quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Maintaining a first-rate choir of men and boys as the principal and standard singing group is a commitment that neither the National Cathedral nor Saint John the Divine has maintained.
Okay Alogon, what have you against the National Cathedral Choir of Men and Boys? (I guess I won't even ask about the Men and Girls. . . )

I have nothing against the choir itself, only the way it is eclipsed by other groups whenever any particularly high-profile service comes along. It's the paid mixed choir standing on risers in the crossing that really ticks me off. Who needs'em? Waste of money. One can hear a group like that in the nearest high school auditorium.

[ 09. March 2012, 19:59: Message edited by: Alogon ]

Posted by tomb (# 174) on :

Back to the original question, this is clearly one of those efforts to avoid the Trinitarian formula "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" because of the masculine nouns.

This is better than the "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" heresy, but not much.

So now we have a Unitarian formula in Enriching our Worship in addition to a heretical trinitarian one. Isn't that special.

[ 09. March 2012, 23:02: Message edited by: tomb ]

Posted by tomb (# 174) on :

BTW, The Offspring went to worship at Grace while in the Bay Area for his cousin's graduation from Berkley a while back. He attended their "traditional" service, the congregation for which was composed, in his words, of "tatooed teens and twenties with more piercings than body parts, and blue-hairs."

Of course, he hit it off with the blue-hairs and has a good impression of the place. They invited him to coffee hour and afterwords took him out and fed him. Nothing like old people buying you food to give you a favorable impression of a place.

Posted by NatDogg (# 14347) on :

Look, I think that Grace has had its moments, but it is NOTHING compared to some of the liturgical shenanigans that we ALL have seen. (Think of the crystals at St. John the Divine.)

I agree with some other posters, any cathedral that maintains a full choir of men and boys and a full choral Eucharist every Sunday is doing something right. . .

Posted by George6833 (# 14995) on :

Just back to the issue of Choirs of Men and Boys, you might consider the quite splendid choirs of both Saint Paul, R.C., Cambridge and the choir of Men and Boys at all Saints' Ashmont, Massachusetts. Long traditions and lovely to hear. St. Paul's has a full time academic school associated and compulsory. Ashmont doesn't have the resources for such at this point, but the boys are worked very hard, and it shows. I'm probably not supposed to do this in this forum but I want the world to know that they will be collaborating at St. Paul's on the 11th in the afternoon for Vespers.........

Posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras (# 11274) on :

quote:
Originally posted by tomb:
Back to the original question, this is clearly one of those efforts to avoid the Trinitarian formula "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" because of the masculine nouns.

This is better than the "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" heresy, but not much.

So now we have a Unitarian formula in Enriching our Worship in addition to a heretical trinitarian one. Isn't that special.

It would be important to note that "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" isn't necessarily modalist. Depends on whether or not one understands the descriptors as applying to the three Persons of the Trinity, or conversely understands the words in a non-orthodox way as merely describing functional modes of the Godhead. The ambiguity, of course, is problematic.

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Based on the report, it does appear that they've resolved that cannibal cult problem...
Just wanted to let you know I saw that, Sieg, and I got it.

I sure did too, and I laughed.

I certainly thought of it when churchgeek gave me the behind-the-scenes tour including STAFF ONLY levels in the elevator.

All made up, as Kel says. There were certainly shenanigans going on at Grace back in the wild and wooly days, but that wasn't part of it.

AG (member of the congregation for 18 years)

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
On the other hand, this sucks beyond words (from the MW):

quote:
There was coffee and tea only, dispensed in plastic recyclable cups. After taking a coffee I hung around for about ten minutes and was not spoken to by anyone.
Really? Badly done, Grace.

This wasn't uncommon in my experience. Although there were usually goodies.

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:

quote:
Originally posted by tomb:
Back to the original question, this is clearly one of those efforts to avoid the Trinitarian formula "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" because of the masculine nouns.

This is better than the "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" heresy, but not much.

So now we have a Unitarian formula in Enriching our Worship in addition to a heretical trinitarian one. Isn't that special.
It would be important to note that "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" isn't necessarily modalist. Depends on whether or not one understands the descriptors as applying to the three Persons of the Trinity, or conversely understands the words in a non-orthodox way as merely describing functional modes of the Godhead. The ambiguity, of course, is problematic.

If we want to include lists of descriptions of God in terms of actions in creation, then I always think it's a good idea not to have a list of three... "In the name of God, Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier and Sustainer" makes much clearer that the descriptors don't apply individually to the persons of the Most Holy Trinity.

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
It would be important to note that "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" isn't necessarily modalist.

In my younger days, our liturgy (of the Danish-West Norwegian lineage) began with a prayer, "O Lord, our Maker, Redeemer, and Comforter..." The way it was phrased managed to avoid a modalist controversy, and with the exception of one word that could have easily been modified it actually was gender inclusive.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
On the other hand, this sucks beyond words (from the MW):

quote:
There was coffee and tea only, dispensed in plastic recyclable cups. After taking a coffee I hung around for about ten minutes and was not spoken to by anyone.
Really? Badly done, Grace.
This wasn't uncommon in my experience. Although there were usually goodies.

Every time I've gone there, I have been "with people," so haven't had a chance to be neglected. But I have participated in some stellar coffee hours.

Which is a great opening line, Grace Staff, if you're reading this "Hey, we are really proud of our spread today! Be sure and try the crabcakes!"

You don't have to marry them, just direct them to the donuts, for cry-yi.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

I'm a verger there. (Which means I'm never at coffee hour; I'm busy cleaning up after the service!) Thankfully the Mystery Worshipper didn't have any comments about the pigeon-toed verger who can't walk slowly to save her life!

RE: Men & boys choirs, my home church, the Cathedral Church of St. Paul in Detroit has both a men & boys and a women & girls choir. I think that's a fabulous way to maintain the tradition but also be more inclusive. (As I always say, "You might be Episcopalian if...you believe women should be in the House of Bishops but NOT the choir!") Our choirs in Detroit are completely amateur, though - it's not a wealthy church (or city).

I do have to say I was amused that the MW found Grace to be "stiff upper lip"!

Oh, and yes, there are catwalks. You can actually see them, because the ceiling was never finished. I've been in them on multiple occasions (the elevator only goes up part-way, then you have to climb stairs - NOT for the faint of heart!) and it's pretty cool. Not having a finished ceiling does let us do the occasional interesting thing like string up an installation artwork in the vaulting of the nave, or drop "poppy petals" down during the Remembrance Day service.

Anyway, in my unbiased [Biased]

opinion, Grace does a pretty good job serving a lot of different communities (locally, not so locally, virtually, etc.) and keeping a balance between tradition and innovation - which seems appropriate for an American cathedral.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

I have to ask, though - why is "Blessed be the one, holy and living God" so problematic? Do we not believe God is one, holy, and living? It's not a denial of the Trinity, and it's not as if there are no trinitarian forumlae elsewhere in the service (although you won't get that from the MW report, since that's not the purpose of the report).

We use the Nicene Creed in the liturgy, after the homily.

The blessing at the dismissal is trinitarian ("Father, Son, and Holy Spirit").

When there's a Gloria, the Trinity is there too.

Not to mention hymns, anthems, homilies, and doxologies (in the Eucharistic Prayer, e.g.).

I think it's just the departure from what people are used to that might be jarring. I personally don't care one way or the other, and I don't know why we happen to use that particular opening sentence. We do take a lot from Enriching Our Worship, mostly in an effort to draw from multiple authorized sources.

I suspect people are reading too much in just because this is Grace Cathedral, San Francisco (emphasis on both church and city) we're talking about.

Oh, and because I know them personally, I can vouch for the rather boring orthodoxy of all our current clergy. [Cool]

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Grace Cathedral is one of the few American churches where I have worshiped. All very nice and I was complimented on my English accent heard during the hymn singing (and a service with hymns before breakfast is not something I'd find in any English church).

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Incidentally, is this "Blessed be God" bit instead of "In the name of the Father..." or instead or "The Lord be with you"? Or is it an amalgam or both?

Posted by Nunc Dimittis (# 848) on :

Out of curiosity, what is the patronal/feast day for Grace Cathedral?

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
Out of curiosity, what is the patronal/feast day for Grace Cathedral?

Michaelmas, I seem to recall churchgeek saying (but I can't link to the message). Isn't that right, churchgeek?

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
It's not the first loony experiment at that Cathedral. The old seat of +Pike it was after all

By all accounts +Pike did not screw with the liturgy very much when he was active as Bishop of California. The really wacky stuff came after he retired. Throughout +Louttit's (of S. Fl.) presentation of +Pike in 1966 there is not one mention of liturgical irregularities.

PD

[ 11. March 2012, 13:37: Message edited by: PD ]

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Grace Cathedral is one of the few American churches where I have worshiped. All very nice and I was complimented on my English accent heard during the hymn singing (and a service with hymns before breakfast is not something I'd find in any English church).

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Grace Cathedral is one of the few American churches where I have worshiped. All very nice and I was complimented on my English accent heard during the hymn singing (and a service with hymns before breakfast is not something I'd find in any English church).

On the latter point, Westminster Cathedral has a hymn with the morning Office each day at 7.30. And St. Augustine's Anglican Church Highgate with morning prayer daily.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Good on them, ll.

What I also remember about Grace Cathedral was that the distance to our hotel seemed further vertically than it was horizontally.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Incidentally, is this "Blessed be God" bit instead of "In the name of the Father..." or instead or "The Lord be with you"? Or is it an amalgam or both?

It's the very opening line, so in place of "Blessed be God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" (to which the congregation would respond, "And blessed be God's kingdom, now and forever"). So, instead, we use (during Ordinary Time, anyway) "Blessed be the one, holy, and living God" / "Glory to God for ever and ever."

Right now in Lent, we're using, "Blessed be the God of our salvation" / "Who bears our burdens and forgives our sins."

quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:

quote:
Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
Out of curiosity, what is the patronal/feast day for Grace Cathedral?
Michaelmas, I seem to recall churchgeek saying (but I can't link to the message). Isn't that right, churchgeek?

That's what I've been told. We celebrate Michaelmas on the nearest Sunday, but we don't tend to refer to it as patronal or sing typical church-founding hymns or anything. We also celebrate St. Francis' Day (on the following Sunday), since he's the patron saint of the city. But we have the annual meeting on a different day - usually in September, but not on Michaelmas. It confuses me, but I'm not a member. (I've kept my membership at the Cathedral Church of St. Paul, Detroit, the high altar of which you can see in my avatar, and which celebrates its patronal feast on the Conversion of St. Paul, exactly as you would expect.)

We need to canonize someone named Grace, then all Grace churches can take her as their patron! [Razz]

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I can imagine a case that a church dedicated to Grace, would have as its principal feast the Immaculate Conception.

But perhaps not here.

Posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras (# 11274) on :

IME, "Grace" was an old 19th Century/early 20th Century American dedication that in TEC would have traditionally signalled low churchmanship (although the merged parish of Grace & St Peter in Baltimore is an historic Anglo-Catholic church).

Posted by Comper's Child (# 10580) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I can imagine a case that a church dedicated to Grace, would have as its principal feast the Immaculate Conception.

But perhaps not here.

I'd have thought the feast would be Pentecost.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
IME, "Grace" was an old 19th Century/early 20th Century American dedication that in TEC would have traditionally signalled low churchmanship (although the merged parish of Grace & St Peter in Baltimore is an historic Anglo-Catholic church).

That's what I have always suspected, too. It's a way to not name a church for a saint, which might be too Catholic for some. I have no idea whether that's true of Grace Cathedral (or the parish that preceded the cathedral, at Grace Church, which was destroyed in the 1906 earthquake and fire). The congregation's history goes way back (for San Francisco*) to right around the Gold Rush days, I think. It started as a little chapel.

*Visitors often ask me how old the cathedral is, and when I tell them it was started in the 1930s and finished in the 1960s, I actually will occasionally have people who say, "Wow, that's old!" Not most people, but still.

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

Well they do tend to tear most things down every 35 years in the larger California cities.

PD

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

I think it was the Armenian Orthodox Patriarch who, on being shown round Canterbury Cathedral and being proudly told that it was founded in AD 597 (not that there's much left from that time...), quietly remarked that his Cathedral was some 200 years older......

Ian J.

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

quote:
Originally posted by PD:
Well they do tend to tear most things down every 35 years in the larger California cities.

The earthquakes have a tendency to assist in a fairly frequent structure removal schedule. If not directly, then by causing damage that the insurance companies decide they don't like 20-30 years later.

Posted by Net Spinster (# 16058) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:

quote:
Originally posted by PD:
Well they do tend to tear most things down every 35 years in the larger California cities.

The earthquakes have a tendency to assist in a fairly frequent structure removal schedule. If not directly, then by causing damage that the insurance companies decide they don't like 20-30 years later.

Or understanding of how to build things that are earthquake safe changes. Back around 1988 at the university I work the students arrive backed from spring break to discover that one dorm had been shut down since an evaluation over the break had discovered that it would be unsafe in case of an earthquake. Fortunately retrofitting finished before the 1989 quake and the dorm survived nicely (several other buildings including the chapel did not though no one was seriously hurt on the campus itself).

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

I'm always amused by the signs in some buildings that basically say, "The state of California is pretty sure that if you're in here when the big one hits, you will die." Well, not in those words, but that's the impression you get.

Just to bring this back to the topic of Grace Cathedral -

Apparently, during the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, they were saying Evening Prayer in one of the side chapels (Chapel of the Nativity) and had no idea there was an earthquake. Meanwhile, freeways were collapsing a mile away.

The cathedral is poured concrete, and is set into the bedrock, so I guess it would be a good place to be when the big one hits!

It took a while for me to get used to all the poured concrete structures here. The Detroit architect Albert Kahn studied in Germany, where that technique was invented, and he brought it back to the US for the purpose of building factories for Ford. So I was always used to poured concrete being used for cheap & dirty construction - parking garages, factories, that sort of thing. Cathedrals?!? But apparently it's really seismically stable.

Posted by George6833 (# 14995) on :

As an architect that studied at UCal Berkeley in the late 70's, I often went across the Bay to worship at Grace. There are many fine churches in the San Francisco Bay area. Poured concrete with rebar is anathema towards my thought of what a cathedral's fabric should consist of. Yet, Grace pulls it off. Way too liberal for my taste, but it makes it work. A few months ago, I endup in S.F. for a long layover. Had to stay at a friend's flat on Nob Hill. 11ish in the evening, I walked to the Labaryinth. Bliss. All alone. 4 minute walk to home. I got up real early the next morning and was treated to a glourious Morningsong. They do have some partictular pratices, but compared to what some of our parishes here in Massachusetts do, it's fairly orthodox.

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
I'm always amused by the signs in some buildings that basically say, "The state of California is pretty sure that if you're in here when the big one hits, you will die." Well, not in those words, but that's the impression you get.

My high school had one of those signs in the main administration building-- classes couldn't be held there because of that, but if you had to go to the principal's office, you sat there and stared at it...

...not that I was often in the principal's office.

*ahem*

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
It took a while for me to get used to all the poured concrete structures here. The Detroit architect Albert Kahn studied in Germany, where that technique was invented, and he brought it back to the US for the purpose of building factories for Ford. So I was always used to poured concrete being used for cheap & dirty construction - parking garages, factories, that sort of thing. Cathedrals?!? But apparently it's really seismically stable.

Growing up in Northern California, poured concrete looks just fine to me. Red brick buildings? Look like death traps and therefore stepping into a place like New York Avenue Presbyterian takes more than just an act of faith for me.

Digging that old MW report out of the archives, I thought I'd take a scroll through all the other Grace MWs and see what the reported opening words were for each:

Ash Wednesday, 2000: "May God be with you."

May 2006: "Alleluia! Christ is risen."

July 2006 (Bishop's investiture): "There is one body and one Spirit."

June 2007: "May God be with you." "And also with you."

Posted by Alogon (# 5513) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:

quote:
Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
Out of curiosity, what is the patronal/feast day for Grace Cathedral?
Michaelmas, I seem to recall churchgeek saying (but I can't link to the message). Isn't that right, churchgeek?

I've never heard Michaelmas before. How does that figure? The archangel who visited Mary at the Annunciation was Gabriel.

I understand that Anglo-Catholics consider the dedication "Grace" to be short for "Our Lady of Grace." The feast of title would be either Pentecost or a feast of Our Lady. ISTM that in the latter case, the Annunciation would make the most sense, commemorating the angelic salutation.

The choice might well be reflected in the color of choir cassocks: red if Pentecost, blue if Marian. As with many American cathedrals, Grace Cathedral's choir's robes are probably purple, i.e. a mixture of red and blue, so we don't get a clue there. [Biased]

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
The report on Grace Cathedral ...

*Sigh* ... I'd just like to work somewhere that's civilised enough to have a "deacon for the arts". Or an anybody for the arts, even.

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
On the other hand, this sucks beyond words (from the MW):

quote:
There was coffee and tea only, dispensed in plastic recyclable cups. After taking a coffee I hung around for about ten minutes and was not spoken to by anyone.
Really? Badly done, Grace.
This wasn't uncommon in my experience. Although there were usually goodies.
Every time I've gone there, I have been "with people," so haven't had a chance to be neglected. But I have participated in some stellar coffee hours.

Which is a great opening line, Grace Staff, if you're reading this "Hey, we are really proud of our spread today! Be sure and try the crabcakes!"

You don't have to marry them, just direct them to the donuts, for cry-yi.

It's not the staff, it's the volunteers and congregation members-at-large. Staff were awesome if I got near them to talk. (Even before churchgeek started working there [Biased]

).

I was at least smiled at warmly and spoken to nicely when the Men of Grace circulated the goodies platters. Circulating platters is not a bad idea, especially in the busy environment of a Grace coffee hour. It is super easy to get lost in the (large) crowd, and not easy for even determined welcomers to get to everyone. ASA is in four figures (AFAICT) and the 11 am service is the biggest fraction of that.

I definitely had to make an effort/the first move if I wanted to be sociable (the eternal ambivert-tending-towards-introvert dilemma). I do keep in mind that a large part of why I stayed with the Cathedral is that I wanted to be more anonymous and avoid people getting up in my bidness, so it's a fair cop. I left when I realized that (thanks to the Ship) I was interested in becoming more active with a congregation, and knew that it wasn't possible for me to do so at Grace because I no longer either lived or worked near it.

I still have a quite warm spot in my heart for them and treasure the time I spent there. They really are the light of Christ in the city. Glad to hear that a lot of visitors have had generally positive experiences.

I hadn't heard the story about people not feeling Loma Prieta in the chapel! Grace is on the bedrock, which helps (I got a very shaky ride across the bay in downtown Oakland, which was functionally equidistant from the epicenter, but on very sandy soil), but apparently the concrete was correctly reinforced for that event.

Posted by Bos Loquax (# 16602) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
Out of curiosity, what is the patronal/feast day for Grace Cathedral?

I'm in the Diocese of California and once came across a diocesan Cycle of Prayer booklet at my old parish. Having the same question myself, I went looking. According to at least that year's version of the document, the feast is the Fifth Sunday of Easter. The same applies to Grace Episcopal Church, in the city of Martinez to the northeast.

The online 2007 version has the same thing. (For some reason, the seemingly equivalent 2011 version has clergy only.)

I do not have any clear idea why the feast is that day. In that 2007 Cycle of Prayer, the Church of the Redeemer has its feast on the Third Sunday of Easter, and various Good Shepherds on the Fourth Sunday of Easter; I've known of the reasoning behind the last. There is not a similarly blatant lectionary link for "grace."

I also do not know about any history of special observance of the feast at the cathedral, and I'm almost tempted to make a special trip that Sunday (my parish isn't very far away) just to look in the program.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

Thought folks might be interested to learn that this Sunday in her sermon, the dean mentioned the Mystery Worshiper report and challenged the congregation to do better at coffee hour! The sermon is available here.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

[Big Grin]

Sweet!

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :

Dean Shaw rocks.

That is all.

[Axe murder]

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :

I listened to the whole thing (10 minutes or so) and enjoyed it. Hopefully all MW reports are treated thus in the congregations that have been MWed.

I wish nothing but the best to Dean Shaw and the Grace congregation in their endeavors.

[Votive]

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