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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Summer Antics
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
Well, we are apparently in that special time of the year when churches start allowing summer sloppiness to infect their liturgy. What I encountered today that really ground my gears was a pastor who did not wear any ecclesiastical vestments at all. The church had AC, and blasted it to the extent that I was cold. The elderly had sufficient sweaters to indicate that it is normally cold in there.
So what have you encountered? Perhaps some errant churches will stumble upon this thread and mend their ways.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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uffda
Shipmate
# 14310
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Posted
You may be opening the proverbial can of worms with this one, Martin. I have a special lightweight green chasuble perfect for summer liturgy, but there are many, in the name of liturgical freedom, who use this as an excuse to abandon vestments. At one of our nearby Lutheran shacks, polo shirts are de rigeur in the summer, even though their fully functional AC is pumping full blast.
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Invincibly ignorant and planning to stay that way!
Posts: 1031 | From: Buffalo, NY | Registered: Nov 2008
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
My parish goes on vacation for the summer. Most of the congregation flees for the Cape, and the choir, procession, lay-Eucharistic-ministers' surplices, and acolytes are put in mothballs.
I, for one, like the AC blasting all summer long, to keep everything at a nice, tomb-like temperature.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
AC is fine. Being unnecessarily sloppy is not. They also omitted the Psalm, the Second Lesson, and the Alleluia. Their hymns kept singing about Holy Communion, which we did not have the privilege of receiving. (Really ELCA churches? It's 2012. Get with the program.)
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
My church has moved up from non-existent A/C to inadequate A/C. Thus far I have managed to wear Eucharistic vestments every week, but it was 80-ish in there this morning which is pushing it given my tendancy towards heat stroke. Otherwise, things are a little less elaborate than usual, but summer sloppiness just is not our style.
PD
[ 09. July 2012, 04:19: Message edited by: PD ]
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
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Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
Generally servers go off to vacation (Without letting the guy who does the scheduling know!) and often we are short a few servers. Influx of summer visitors means that for a bit, there's some awkward moments.
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http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
A great wide Pond gulf here! Especially this 'summer'. I don't know any British churches with air-conditioning but it wouldn't have been necessary so far this year anyway. No weather-based excuse for not wearing vestments. As far as presence of personnel goes, people are less likely to take off for the day when it's raining. Those going on holiday in August are balanced by older people and those without children taking theirs when it's cheaper.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
The vicar in one of my old churches decided he was going to take August off from preaching. I can cope with choirs being off for a couple of weeks; I can cope with a serving team a few members short; I'm not OK with the vicar regularly omitting a central part of the service on seasonal grounds.
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
A great wide Pond gulf here! Especially this 'summer'. I don't know any British churches with air-conditioning but it wouldn't have been necessary so far this year anyway.
It never is in our church, which retains warmth when it's cold outside and remains cool when the sun is blazing, unless someone puts the heating on.
One day last year, I had just done the brisk walk up the hill from the station to church, (which usually works up a mild sweat anyway), only I was under my cassock (not the summer one) and it was a rather horrid 24 degrees outside. I walked into church to find that someone had switched all the heaters on. I know that different people handle different temperatures differently, but all four heaters on in 24-degree weather? What are people trying to do to me?
Liturgically, nothing really interesting happens. We don't shorten anything more than usual. People are certainly thinner on the ground, which may mean a small choir and fewer servers but that's about it.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Astley:
[QUOTE] it was a rather horrid 24 degrees outside.
That was a long time ago! (and I wouldn't call 24 degrees horrid, but then you know that!) ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
The vicar in one of my old churches decided he was going to take August off from preaching. I can cope with choirs being off for a couple of weeks; I can cope with a serving team a few members short; I'm not OK with the vicar regularly omitting a central part of the service on seasonal grounds.
You should have a chat with many of the other posters on the Ship here who insist that sermons are not only NOT part of worship anyway, but are the most dispensable part of any service, ever, anytime, if not always!
Confession time: I've decided to wear my cassock-alb (yes, really) instead of cassock and surplice over the summer months, partly for convenience and comfort. Let the stoning commence.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Confession time: I've decided to wear my cassock-alb (yes, really) instead of cassock and surplice over the summer months, partly for convenience and comfort. Let the stoning commence.
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."
Once, I was given the disagreeable task of manning the bendy pole during a diocesan service. *sobs*
[ 09. July 2012, 16:55: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Confession time: I've decided to wear my cassock-alb (yes, really) instead of cassock and surplice over the summer months, partly for convenience and comfort. Let the stoning commence.
I'm not one of the cassock-albs-are-anathema party, but I am extremely envious of the implication that you are having summer in Ireland this year.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Once, I was given the disagreeable task of manning the bendy pole during a diocesan service. *sobs*
That belongs on this thread!
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Confession time: I've decided to wear my cassock-alb (yes, really) instead of cassock and surplice over the summer months, partly for convenience and comfort. Let the stoning commence.
I'm not one of the cassock-albs-are-anathema party, but I am extremely envious of the implication that you are having summer in Ireland this year.
Ironically I have always found a cassock-alb hotter than cassock and surplice due the high percentage of polyester in most cassock-albs.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
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Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Confession time: I've decided to wear my cassock-alb (yes, really) instead of cassock and surplice over the summer months, partly for convenience and comfort. Let the stoning commence.
I'm not one of the cassock-albs-are-anathema party, but I am extremely envious of the implication that you are having summer in Ireland this year.
Ironically I have always found a cassock-alb hotter than cassock and surplice due the high percentage of polyester in most cassock-albs.
PD
Exactly.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Confession time: I've decided to wear my cassock-alb (yes, really) instead of cassock and surplice over the summer months, partly for convenience and comfort. Let the stoning commence.
I'm not one of the cassock-albs-are-anathema party, but I am extremely envious of the implication that you are having summer in Ireland this year.
Ha, I wish that were true. Far from it - it's wet, wet, wet here! But the temperature is a few degrees higher than usual, even indoors, and I only have a winter-weight cassock - wool-mixture thing, which I find much warmer during the summer time. Whereas the cassock-alb is just one layer, very light, though some kind of poly mix.
It's also, incidentally, so much easier to cart around from church to church on a Sunday morning run of three services. I think if I lost some weight, the cassock would be more comfortable (ahem!); but it's a much heavier tie-and-button-yourself-in affair than a simple single robe with a press-stud and a few buttons.
I also do one communion service and two morning prayers, on a typical Sunday morning, and whichever combination I pick, it's not really practical to carry the whole wardrobe. So just for these few weeks, I've chosen cassock-alb over cassock and surplice, which is my usual default. I have to admit it feels strange - though comfortable!
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
My greatest concession to hot weather in recent years has been to not wear a chasuble when it hits 25c or above. Otherwise life and liturgy has continued as normal regardless of (meterological) season.
My current spiritual home(sorry, what I mean is ecclesiastical home) is however offering a 'holiday special' this month, and reports of previous years suggest it may be deeply embarassing. I think I may go on holiday to avoid it.
[ 10. July 2012, 14:53: Message edited by: Oferyas ]
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
So just for these few weeks, I've chosen cassock-alb over cassock and surplice
I was just about to type ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) when I realised that you probably meant 'in preference to' rather than 'on top of.'
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Once, I was given the disagreeable task of manning the bendy pole during a diocesan service. *sobs*
Tsk, tsk. Your malfunctioning gender non-specific enforcement radar had you missing out the pun of staff for man.
But the crucial issue is this: How ever did you allow yourself to be within five miles of a diocesan service?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
For our summer antics we are using the BCP canon rather than the old Roman canon from the English Missal, and are having the minor propers in English rather than from the Graduale Romanum. And I'm wearing shorts beneath my cassock whilst serving.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
For our summer antics we are using the BCP canon rather than the old Roman canon from the English Missal, and are having the minor propers in English rather than from the Graduale Romanum. And I'm wearing shorts beneath my cassock whilst serving.
First stop: BCP Canon from English Missal
Next stop: Supplementary Liturgical Materials
Third stop:: Zach with bendy pole streamers
Final stop: A cathedralesque renovation, courtesy of the retired dean
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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(S)pike couchant
Shipmate
# 17199
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Next stop: Supplementary Liturgical Materials
I'm fairly certain that S. Clement's is no stranger to, um, 'supplementary liturgical materials'. Very nice most of them are, too.
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Next stop: Supplementary Liturgical Materials
I'm fairly certain that S. Clement's is no stranger to, um, 'supplementary liturgical materials'. Very nice most of them are, too.
'Like'
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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hamletta
Shipmate
# 11678
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Posted
Dudes, it was 110° F here last week (and we ain't Arizona). One of the motors that run our AC in the Nave had crapped out, but we didn't know it. We just thought the AC couldn't keep up with that kind of heat.
But we robed up in our black polyester cassocks and surplices, and we liked it, by God!
We still have music, just not by the whole choir.
We had a fantastic soloist today. She was doing a song that was made famous by some CCM hack, but her interpretation was so lovely.
Posts: 108 | From: Nashvegas | Registered: Jul 2006
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
Polyester makes the Baby Jesus cry! For goodness sake, I was wearing my proper wool blend cassock and sweating buckets -- and I LIKED it!
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
My best summer double-breasted cassock is a polyester-viscose number from Almy. It is nice and cool, and when I get it all sweated up it can go in the washer and come out again looking as fresh as a daisy. Trouble is that it is back, and it baffles the crap out of the faithful that the bishop trots around in a black cassock.
Yhe best green vestments that I have for hot weather are a green fiddleback set of French-Canadian origin. They let the steam out nicely!
PD
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Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
Of course it is not Summer in Oz, but once it returns we are looking at lighter Summer robes for the choir. Heavy cassocks and surplices are very uncomfortable in hot weather when one is working hard singing. Feeling too warm can lead to feeling ill and sometimes people have been known to faint. Surely it is better to feel comfortable so that discomfort doesn't then interfere with worship.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
Having just returned from a journey through the Carolinas, Tennessee, Kentucky and southern Indiana, in all of which states the daytime temps were in the 101-109F range, I can report the following:
- Saturday 5:30 pm 'casual' (so advertised) Mass in small-ish TEC church: priest fully vested in alb, stole & chas (didn't check underneaths!), sandals. no choir. one singer w/ acoustic guitar (very loud)
- other days: at RC monastery: daily mass sung with varying solemnity depending on the day, full vestments, concelebrating priests in albs and stoles (over habits).
No complaints either place about heat in church, AC was pretty efficient, but prayers for rain and for the suffering farmers. These were all sturdy folks!
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
... and southern Indiana...
other days: at RC monastery: daily mass sung with varying solemnity depending on the day, full vestments, concelebrating priests in albs and stoles (over habits).
Where you at St. Meinrad's by any chance? A wonderful place to be! I've taken a few retreats there and I very much value my time there.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
Hart:
Yes, that was the place. I've visited many times since the late 1960s, and always come away refreshed. (And fatter, the guest house feeds us too well!)
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Our people seem to go away on holiday at all sorts of odd times during the year, so 'summer' (not that we are having one in the UK at the moment) doesn't really make much difference to numbers.
We tend not to have any special social/fundraising occasion during August (or January either), but as far as services are concerned it's business as usual. Fortunately, the Assumption of the BVM falls on a Wednesday this year, so we can use our regular Wednesday evening Mass to celebrate this, and we're replacing our monthly Evensong in August with a 1662 BCP Holy Communion, as part of our contribution to BCP350.......
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
The Sunday School take a break, the Choir have a holiday, but otherwise things carry on as normal. Or so I have been told....
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
I have undertaken analysis of my own church's antics, and the only thing I see that is antickish would be the omission of the Kyrie. I must confess that I could easily have it added back in, but have refrained from doing so.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Is it too hot to sing the Kyrie or what?
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Is it too hot to sing the Kyrie or what?
Yes.
Seriously, there are two reasons:
1. Lack of competent cantor to lead
2. Its omission is an exercise in rubric-employment...nobody is happy all the time in my church; pretty much all the permissive rubrics are given their chance to shine at least one season a year.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
I think I would be very irritating as a Lutheran Pastor as the service would always be:
Hymn
Greeting
General Confession
Absolution
Introit
Kyrie
(Gloria when appropriate)
Collect
Readings as given in the Book
Hymn
Sermon
Creed
Prayer for the Church
Preface
Sanctus-Benedictus
Words of Institution
Lord's Prayer
Agnus and Distribution
Post Communion
Blessing
Hymn
If the parish has a good choir a nice bit od Schutz would fit right in, with a Bach Cantata at Christmas and Easter. Alb and Chasuble for Mass as per Leipzig in J S Bach's time and cassock and surplice for Matins and Vespers in the week.
Oh, hang on, that is a bit too Lutheran for American Lutherans...
PD
[ 20. July 2012, 05:51: Message edited by: PD ]
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
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Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Many Anglican churches I know which are highly liturgical (incense, vestments,) nonetheless still treat the Gloria and Kyrie as alternatives - this was the case pre 1980, but I regret it.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
PD - I'm not familiar with Lutheran worship. Your scheme did not appear to include an offertory hymn or a eucharistic prayer. Have I understood you aright?
Do Lutherans ever have a said eucharist without hymns?
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Many Anglican churches I know which are highly liturgical (incense, vestments,) nonetheless still treat the Gloria and Kyrie as alternatives - this was the case pre 1980, but I regret it.
This really bad liturgical idea was institutionalsied in the 1976 BCP-proposed (subsequently the 1979 BCP), although I suppose it was originally incarnated in the earlier 1970s Liturgies for Trial Use, the so-called "Green Book". I think it took a while to gain traction: my experience with the Green Book was that we still did both the Kyrie and Gloria in non-penitential seasons. Post-1979, however, using just one or the other has become near universal IME, even at liturgically salubrious places like St Thomas Fifth Avenue (though not of course at advanced Anglo-Catholic shacks).
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
PD - I'm not familiar with Lutheran worship. Your scheme did not appear to include an offertory hymn or a eucharistic prayer. Have I understood you aright?
Do Lutherans ever have a said eucharist without hymns?
It is important to understand that the Kyrie for many years now in the use of what is now the ELCA is not simply the vestigial form maintained in the Western Rite, i.e. responses shorn of their petitions, but is instead a form of the short litany from Byzantine rites, so both the petitions and the response, "Lord have mercy", invariably chanted IME, are included. My experience was that this "Kyrie" short litany was invariably part of the eucharistic liturgy, whilst instead of the Gloria, more usually the eucharistic praise hymn "This is the Feast" has more usually been sung (but the Gloria in ante-communion services). Don't know if these usages are any longer most typical, nor if they were/are simply typical to some regional ELCA synods of which I am more familiar).
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
Where you at St. Meinrad's by any chance? A wonderful place to be! I've taken a few retreats there and I very much value my time there.
I shall be there myself this coming week for a few days. I've never been there in anything but very hot weather. Their air-conditioning is wonderful. And so is their liturgy, both the Office and Mass. But 5:30 a.m. will come too early no matter how hard I try to prepare for that. I'll do it, though, as that's what I'm there for.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
How many monks are there at St Meinrad's?
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Their website says 90+.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
Wow! The largest (by far) in the UK is Ampleforth with 70+. Most here have about 20-25.
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Papouli
Apprentice
# 17209
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Posted
It is fascinating how the services have developed, East v. West! In Orthodoxy, the Doxology (Glory to You..., or Glory to God in the highest...) is one of the concluding hymns of Matins - but never part of Divine Liturgy.
As for chanting Lord have mercy, the Deacon offers three series of petitions before even getting to the Gospel Entrance and chanting of Holy God, Holy Mighty...
This could explain why the shortest Liturgy I could possibly serve would be 75 minutes, even in the middle of summer: 1.5 or 1.75 hours is more common. For the summer, I begin at 8 AM, and usually finish at 11:30 AM.
Posts: 28 | From: New England | Registered: Jul 2012
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Olaf
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
It is important to understand that the Kyrie for many years now in the use of what is now the ELCA is not simply the vestigial form maintained in the Western Rite, i.e. responses shorn of their petitions, but is instead a form of the short litany from Byzantine rites, so both the petitions and the response, "Lord have mercy", invariably chanted IME, are included. My experience was that this "Kyrie" short litany was invariably part of the eucharistic liturgy, whilst instead of the Gloria, more usually the eucharistic praise hymn "This is the Feast" has more usually been sung (but the Gloria in ante-communion services). Don't know if these usages are any longer most typical, nor if they were/are simply typical to some regional ELCA synods of which I am more familiar).
Usually, it can be expected that both Kyrie as you described and the canticle immediately following will be used, except where the latter is customarily omitted (Advent & Lent). I am dealing with a church that has held to the common liturgical order when almost all of the other ELCA churches in the area have slipped into a contemporary hodgepodge. By employing a hearty range of rubrics, varying seasonally, I am trying to keep people from crying for change.
As far as the option of either the Gloria or This is the Feast, I'd say that 25 years ago, it was almost nationally uniform to use the Gloria on non-Communion Sundays and This is the Feast on Communion Sundays. Nowadays, with more frequent communion, it tends to be more an issue of church season. For instance, we use the Gloria every Sunday from Christmas to the Sunday before Lent, but we use This is the Feast every Sunday from Easter to Pentecost. The rest of the year, we just decide based on musical setting.
[ 20. July 2012, 20:58: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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uffda
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# 14310
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Posted
Martin L has it right. With the onset of weekly eucharist congregations are challenged to decide whether "Glory to God..." will be used, or "This is the Feast..." At our place we use This is the Feast during Easter, and we'll use it during the "Bread of Life" readings this summer, but we have tried to retain the pre-eminence of Glory to God on most Sundays. We've always omitted the Hymn of Praise in Advent and Lent. but I've never felt the need to omit the Kyrie for the summer. For a weekday or smaller eucharistic service I have omitted BOTH to go from the greeting to the Prayer of the Day.
ELCA Lutherans currently have the option to use either a Eucharistic Prayer or the Words of Institution alone, with the clear encouragement by the church to use the full eucharistic prayer.
But traditions are hard to break and many Lutheran churches still use the "Verba" alone, following Luther.
Lutherans in the Missouri Synod are adamantly against the Eucharistic Prayer. It's inclusion in the 1978 Lutheran Book of Worship was one major reason for them pulling out of co-operation on the book.
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Invincibly ignorant and planning to stay that way!
Posts: 1031 | From: Buffalo, NY | Registered: Nov 2008
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Olaf
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by uffda:
ELCA Lutherans currently have the option to use either a Eucharistic Prayer or the Words of Institution alone, with the clear encouragement by the church to use the full eucharistic prayer.
But traditions are hard to break and many Lutheran churches still use the "Verba" alone, following Luther.
Our last full-time pastor introduced the use of a full prayer, and we have maintained its use through interims (albeit with some grumbling; it is always the first thing they want to "cut" to shorten time.) I am not a fan of most of them. In fact, I think most of them were poorly done at best, and their coordination (memorial acclamations and doxology) is non-existent, making the congregation dependent on having the entire text in front of them. That being said, I agree with the rationale behind using them and persist in maintaining their use. We are the only church in the immediate area to use them.
For those who argue that the Words of Institution should not be within a prayer, I would argue that, in the prayers provided, they actually function as a sort of interruption to the prayer, all of which (save perhaps VI) are rather "lite."
[ 20. July 2012, 22:12: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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venbede
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Posted
Thank you. Do Lutherans ever have a said Communion service? (I'm getting the impression that they don't typically, whereas in the C of E Holy Communion was almost only without singing until the C19.)
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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