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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Coloured clerical shirts
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fr monty
Apprentice
# 17206
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Posted
I am anglo catholic but delight in wearing coloured clerical shirts fed us of black after ten years. Just moved on from light blue and grey ones, to royal blue and occasionally green.
This is greeted with much hilarity and comment by anglo catholic colleagues.
I wondered I am the only anglo catholic with a love of coloured shirts?
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Fr Monty
Posts: 3 | From: penarth | Registered: Jul 2012
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
As this has nothing to do with Ship's business, off to Eccles we go ...
Tubbs
Styx Host
[ 09. July 2012, 15:46: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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(S)pike couchant
Shipmate
# 17199
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fr monty:
I wondered I am the only anglo catholic with a love of coloured shirts?
Yes. One should never presume to make such a definite pronouncement, 100% of Anglican clerics whom I have known who've worn coloured clerical shirts are MotR or lower. Anglo-Catholics can, however, be seen with coloured or patterned cuffs (particularly double cuffs with cufflinks) just visible under the cuffs of their cassock or clerical suit, which is very seemly. For one thing, it shows that one is wearing a proper stock with a detachable clerical collar, and not a modish shirt.
In my experience Anglo-Catholic priests almost always wear either a cassock or all black clothing (often a black suit, but I've all sorts of combinations, including black jeans and a black jumper) when in clericals. The only exception to this seems to be a white linen jacket in the summer. When they want to dress less formally than that, most A-C priest seem to dispense with clericals altogether.
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I once knew an A-C priest who wore coloured clerical shirts. He was the same one whose stoles I referred to in the 'worst stole' thread: the one whose green stole had a pink cat applique on the back of the neck so that he could kiss the pink pussy whenever he vested. He also had Winnie the Pooh wall stickers in his Rectory kitchen, and seven sets of flying ducks.
I should have known what to expect when I saw the coloured shirts.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
so that he could kiss the pink pussy
...which alone marks him as a rarity among A-C priests...
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
so that he could kiss the pink pussy
...which alone marks him as a rarity among A-C priests...
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Arch Anglo Catholic
Shipmate
# 15181
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Posted
I wear black; only black. It makes me look thinner. This is (a) a good thing and (b) a necessary thing.
Posts: 144 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2009
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Light blues and greys are common amongst (Roman) Catholic priests. Black is rare there it seems. On the other hand, if a clerical shirt is a uniform it should be just that and not vary according to the whim of the wearer. Imagine a police officer wearing a pink or an orange shirt.
There seems to be an increasing trend for the fogey tendency among a-cs to wear, as mentioned by (S)pike couchant, striped collarless shirts with cufflinks and a black stock on top. It would make me feel very uncomfortable, both mentally and physically. A black shirt with a tab collar is good enough for the ABC so it's good enough for me! (When I have to wear such things).
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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(S)pike couchant
Shipmate
# 17199
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
There seems to be an increasing trend for the fogey tendency among a-cs to wear, as mentioned by (S)pike couchant, striped collarless shirts with cufflinks and a black stock on top. It would make me feel very uncomfortable, both mentally and physically.
Whence the mental discomfort?
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
Why not wear purple? It looks naff on bishops, so why not let the junior clergy have a bash as well?
Or go for something different - either a white shirt with vestock/stock or striped shrt with vestock/stock (black).
I don't understand Angloid's objections. At one time all clergy dressed like that regardless of age or churchmanship before the advent of the clerical shirt - and a number still do. Admittedly it used to be quite comon in St Barnabas Home for the Clergy, but at least they were in collars (some) to the very end!
The striped shirt with separate collar is quite normal for barristers - as are bands. I believe the professions had a common origin.
I happened to be in Larkhill last Friday and saw quite a sight: I just had time to observe a middle aged clergyman on horse back wearing long riding boots, white breeches, hunting pink waistcoat and hacking jacket with a velvet collar. At a quick glance he seemed to have white cuffs and what looked like a full ring collar not made of plastic. That is actually true!
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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(S)pike couchant
Shipmate
# 17199
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
Why not wear purple? It looks naff on bishops, so why not let the junior clergy have a bash as well?
Oh, I agree. Purple clerical shirts are the height of naffness. A purple cassock looks alright, although is probably best reserved for quire dress. For street dress, it looks so much better to wear a black cassock with amaranth buttons and piping, along with an amaranth zucchetto, a fascia of amaranth watered silk, and silk oversleeves piped with amaranth. For formal occasions, add a ferriola of amaranth watered silk.
Or, alternatively, just wear an apron and gaiters. Just please spare use the damn purple shirts!
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
The striped shirt with separate collar is quite normal for barristers - as are bands. I believe the professions had a common origin.
Quite so: legal, academical, and clerical dress all share a common origin. Thus, the dress for priests, barristers, and BAs/MAs is very similar, as is that for bishops, judges, and doctors. The clearest indication of this may perhaps be seen when comparing the convocation dress of an Oxford DPhil with the ordinary quire dress of an Anglican bishop.
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
I happened to be in Larkhill last Friday and saw quite a sight: I just had time to observe a middle aged clergyman on horse back wearing long riding boots, white breeches, hunting pink waistcoat and hacking jacket with a velvet collar. At a quick glance he seemed to have white cuffs and what looked like a full ring collar not made of plastic. That is actually true!
Splendid. Although he'd get extra points had he worn a riding cassock. Still, it sounds like a vast improvement over the sloppy way in which most clerks in holy orders dress these days. That said, I did recently attend a ball (if it can be called that — the dress code was only 'black tie') where an Anglican priest was dressed in knee breaches, black silk stockings, and a clerical frock coat.
[ 09. July 2012, 18:30: Message edited by: (S)pike couchant ]
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
so that he could kiss the pink pussy
...which alone marks him as a rarity among A-C priests...
Father,
Do you have any tips on how to remove coffee from computer keyboards?
PD
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Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
That all said, one must be grateful that the clerical collar is seen AT ALL, whether on a coloured shirt or otherwise.
There was a very silly, one might even say immature, habit in the late 1970s, to perhaps the end of the 1980s, when clergy seemed to abandon the clerical collar in the CofE, and the Church Times seemed to relish taking photographs of such persons so dressed.
It seems as if that affectation seems largely to have passed - apart from those churches where the clergy prefer to wear a jacket and tie and look like middle class estate agents in the mistaken belief that it makes them look more relevant.
I have always thought it makes them look plonkers.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
so that he could kiss the pink pussy
...which alone marks him as a rarity among A-C priests...
Father,
Do you have any tips on how to remove coffee from computer keyboards?
PD
I generally use a colored clerical shirt. Or, in a pinch, an appliqued stole. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
Or go for something different - either a white shirt with vestock/stock or striped shrt with vestock/stock (black).
I don't understand Angloid's objections.
Purely personal. Mainly because it seems a lot of faff to put on, I would lose things like studs and cufflinks, and it goes with formal suits and all that sort of thing. Maybe OK for special occasions but not for day to day trudging round a parish (not that I do that much these days). The parallel with lawyers court dress is liturgical vestments in church, when it doesn't matter what you wear underneath.
Anyway, I hate uniforms. If there is a reason to wear one I will, but otherwise prefer to be casual. The habit doesn't make the monk.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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scuffleball
Shipmate
# 16480
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Posted
I seem to recall posting this on the ship before, but anyway -
When in Taizé, I met a (female, if it's relevant) minister from the (Lutheran) Church of Sweden wearing a blue clerical. A German expressed surprise, as apparently;
* In Germany only RC ministers wear clericals.
* In Germany all clericals are black/purple/whatever RC colour.
In fact I know this to be false as Ivo Huber, the ecumenical officer of the Bavarian Lutheran Church has a beige clerical; perhaps this varies by Landeskirche, and perhaps Ivo Huber is atypical of German protestant ministers - I seem to recall him taking a great interest in Oxford academic dress and Anglican vestments...
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jun 2011
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
There was a very silly, one might even say immature, habit in the late 1970s, to perhaps the end of the 1980s, when clergy seemed to abandon the clerical collar in the CofE, and the Church Times seemed to relish taking photographs of such persons so dressed.
Really? I don't remember that at all. Perhaps I was worshipping at the wrong sort of church.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Our senior leadership (ahem) have a great fondness for clerical shirts in lime green, Hawaiian, or African prints.
Never mind. I was going to comment. never mind.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
The habit doesn't make the monk.
No, but it does make him visible as a monk, and there are times when that is very useful- to others if not to himself.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by scuffleball:
I seem to recall posting this on the ship before, but anyway -
When in Taizé, I met a (female, if it's relevant) minister from the (Lutheran) Church of Sweden wearing a blue clerical. A German expressed surprise, as apparently;
* In Germany only RC ministers wear clericals.
* In Germany all clericals are black/purple/whatever RC colour.
In fact I know this to be false as Ivo Huber, the ecumenical officer of the Bavarian Lutheran Church has a beige clerical; perhaps this varies by Landeskirche, and perhaps Ivo Huber is atypical of German protestant ministers - I seem to recall him taking a great interest in Oxford academic dress and Anglican vestments...
I seem to think that no clerical shirts tends to hold true-ish in Northern Germany - Hannover, Saxony, Thuringia Brandenburg, Vorpommern and Mecklenburg - but less so among the protestant minor9ties in the southeast. The north was the land of the wing collar and frockcoat until recent years. Gawd knows what they are up to now!
On a completely different tangent, I am not big fan of the purple shirt for bishops. I much prefer my accustomed black. I would revive apron and gaiters in the drop of a (stringed top) hat given my druthers.
PD
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Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
On that tangent, if there was ever a man born to wear apron and gaiters, PD, it's you (and I mean that as a compliment). But presumably, your diocese being where it is, you would use a western saddle and stirrups on your equestrian visitations. Would standard English-style apron and gaiters work with that, or would they need alteration? I know little of these things.
[ 10. July 2012, 06:18: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
On that tangent, if there was ever a man born to wear apron and gaiters, PD, it's you (and I mean that as a compliment). But presumably, your diocese being where it is, you would use a western saddle and stirrups on your equestrian visitations. Would standard English-style apron and gaiters work with that, or would they need alteration? I know little of these things.
The word you're groping for, Albertus, is 'chaps'.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
The very thing! Episcopal chaps. What do you think, PD?
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by scuffleball:
I seem to recall posting this on the ship before, but anyway -
When in Taizé, I met a (female, if it's relevant) minister from the (Lutheran) Church of Sweden wearing a blue clerical. A German expressed surprise, as apparently;
* In Germany only RC ministers wear clericals.
* In Germany all clericals are black/purple/whatever RC colour.
In fact I know this to be false as Ivo Huber, the ecumenical officer of the Bavarian Lutheran Church has a beige clerical; perhaps this varies by Landeskirche, and perhaps Ivo Huber is atypical of German protestant ministers - I seem to recall him taking a great interest in Oxford academic dress and Anglican vestments...
I remember about three years ago meeting a Lutheran minister from Hannover who was a very rare species - an OCF (Officiating Chaplain to the Forces) - and he used to wear a clerical shirt either black or grey, including a formal black one with the ring showing and about one inch in front. He was also obsessed with Anglican dress and customs and found the diaconal ordinations in Salisbury cathedral really moving. A young, scholarly individual, he had his baby baptised in York Minster.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
We had a priest who always had such cold hands that he started wearing black gloves during services. I suggested to him that maybe he should wear the correct colour for the church season and he actually took me seriously. Thereafter he appeared in green, red, white, purple or black gloves depending on the time of year. Poor man didn't realise I was joking at his expense.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
The late Msgr Alfred Gilbey, catholic chaplain at Cambridge for many years, used to wear purple gloves as everyday street wear.
Indeed, to see him queuing for the number 12 bus from Picadilly was to behold something from the pages of Evelyn Waugh.
Latterly he rode in a car with driver provided for his use by a grateful former student.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
The habit doesn't make the monk.
No, but it does make him visible as a monk, and there are times when that is very useful- to others if not to himself.
I don't think we disagree.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I was under the impression that grey and light blue were worn by deacons and possibly seminarians, black by presbyters/priests, and purple by bishops. Am I incorrect?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Here is the sweltering southwest (central Arizona), black clericals are pretty gruesome in the summer. Light blue, grey, and white are very popular.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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(S)pike couchant
Shipmate
# 17199
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Padre Joshua:
I was under the impression that grey and light blue were worn by deacons and possibly seminarians, black by presbyters/priests, and purple by bishops. Am I incorrect?
I've never heard that. Furthermore, every deacon I've known (including some who are very aware of correct attire) has worn a black clerical shirt or stock. The colour should match that of a cassock and, in the Western Church, cassocks are generally black not only for priests but also for deacons, seminarians and altar servers.
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Here is the sweltering southwest (central Arizona), black clericals are pretty gruesome in the summer. Light blue, grey, and white are very popular.
I'm up the mountain from you and it is quite hot enough here, thank ye! I used to wear medium grey shirts and grey trousers in summer, especially as I tend to be outdoors to some degree every day. I am also often seen sporting a straw cowboy hat. "The Grey Season" was roughly late May to mid-September up here at 5400 feet. I would imagine it is a couple of months longer down in the Valley.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
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Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
On that tangent, if there was ever a man born to wear apron and gaiters, PD, it's you (and I mean that as a compliment). But presumably, your diocese being where it is, you would use a western saddle and stirrups on your equestrian visitations. Would standard English-style apron and gaiters work with that, or would they need alteration? I know little of these things.
Not so. I have seen a photograph of the venerable John-Baptist Lamy, protohierarch of Santa Fe, in a riding cassock (common among Spanish-speaking bishops of the era and close enough to the episcopal apron) and gaiters. If he don't need chaps, PD don't need chaps.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
Apron and gaiters were riding dress originally. In the 18th century the roads were appalling, so horseback was often the only practical way from A to B. In the biog of Simon Phipps (+Lincoln when I was a kid) there is a picture of him in apron and gaiters riding out with one of the local hunts. He remained reasonably immune to the ravages of middle aged spread, so the outfit and horseback suited him.
Chaps, BTW, are needed because cowboys rope from horseback and one often ends up with the ropes trailing back across your legs. Also when one is going through Juniper brush the chaps defend your legs and jeans against whipped to bits by branches and thorn bushes.
PD
[ 11. July 2012, 06:07: Message edited by: PD ]
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
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Manipled Mutineer
Shipmate
# 11514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
Or go for something different - either a white shirt with vestock/stock or striped shrt with vestock/stock (black).
I don't understand Angloid's objections.
Purely personal. Mainly because it seems a lot of faff to put on, I would lose things like studs and cufflinks, and it goes with formal suits and all that sort of thing. Maybe OK for special occasions but not for day to day trudging round a parish (not that I do that much these days). The parallel with lawyers court dress is liturgical vestments in church, when it doesn't matter what you wear underneath.
Actually you might find that comfort considerations point the other way. My impression from this board is that clerical shirts in pure cotton (which I find substantially more comfortable) are wickedly difficult to find whereas pure cotton tunic shirts are the norm. In addition, the fact that you can simply add a standard turndown collar in matching fabric and they look just like a normal shirt would make it much easier to go incognito, as well as obviating the need to radically change your wardrobe should you be unfrocked. Just a thought.
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Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
Catholic books
Posts: 1533 | From: Glamorgan, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
There was a very silly, one might even say immature, habit in the late 1970s, to perhaps the end of the 1980s, when clergy seemed to abandon the clerical collar in the CofE, and the Church Times seemed to relish taking photographs of such persons so dressed.
Really? I don't remember that at all. Perhaps I was worshipping at the wrong sort of church.
Quite possibly! Alan Bennett made a few amusing references in some of his work to vicars who didn't look like vicars because it wasn't the right thing to do any more - wearing trainers, or no collars.
'Where did you get those shoes?'
He said, 'They're training shoes.' She said, 'Training for what? Are you not fully qualified?' He said, 'If Jesus were alive today, Mrs Whittaker, I think you'd find these were the type of shoes he would be wearing.' 'Not if his mother had anything to do with it,' she said. 'She'd have him down Stead and Simpson's and get him into some good brogues.....'
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
....Chaps, BTW, are needed because cowboys rope from horseback and one often ends up with the ropes trailing back across your legs....
PD
Just the thing, then, for when you've left the ninety-and-nine and have gone after the one that has strayed!
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
There was a very silly, one might even say immature, habit in the late 1970s, to perhaps the end of the 1980s, when clergy seemed to abandon the clerical collar in the CofE, and the Church Times seemed to relish taking photographs of such persons so dressed.
Really? I don't remember that at all. Perhaps I was worshipping at the wrong sort of church.
Quite possibly! Alan Bennett made a few amusing references in some of his work to vicars who didn't look like vicars because it wasn't the right thing to do any more - wearing trainers, or no collars.
'Where did you get those shoes?'
He said, 'They're training shoes.' She said, 'Training for what? Are you not fully qualified?' He said, 'If Jesus were alive today, Mrs Whittaker, I think you'd find these were the type of shoes he would be wearing.' 'Not if his mother had anything to do with it,' she said. 'She'd have him down Stead and Simpson's and get him into some good brogues.....'
Hilarious - and what a comment on the role of Our Lady.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Alan Bennett made a few amusing references in some of his work to vicars who didn't look like vicars because it wasn't the right thing to do any more - wearing trainers, or no collars.
'Where did you get those shoes?'
He said, 'They're training shoes.' She said, 'Training for what? Are you not fully qualified?' He said, 'If Jesus were alive today, Mrs Whittaker, I think you'd find these were the type of shoes he would be wearing.' 'Not if his mother had anything to do with it,' she said. 'She'd have him down Stead and Simpson's and get him into some good brogues.....'
I do hope Miss Amanda reads this!
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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PaulBC
Shipmate
# 13712
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Posted
The only shirt a cleric should avoid wearing is one with broad arrow's in them. I mean a cleric in Dartmoor ? Who would believe it !! And before the clerics breath fire at me I don't care what colour shirt you wear just be the best cleric you can be. peace love & joy
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif) ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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"He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
Posts: 873 | From: Victoria B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2008
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Laurence
Shipmate
# 9135
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
]Quite so: legal, academical, and clerical dress all share a common origin. Thus, the dress for priests, barristers, and BAs/MAs is very similar, as is that for bishops, judges, and doctors. The clearest indication of this may perhaps be seen when comparing the convocation dress of an Oxford DPhil with the ordinary quire dress of an Anglican bishop.
And, indeed, for the trifecta, the old red-and-white robes for a Crown Court judge. Witness red quasi-chimere, black scarf, bands:
High Court judge
Not too different from the Oxford convocation habit (although I think DD is the strongest resemblance, not DPhil). No black scarf; the bands here have mutated into a white bow tie; and a mortar board replaces the wig, natch:
Oxford convocation habit in use at a graduation
And, just to show the family resemblance (but what has this person got on his head? Tat-clash!): Episcopal choir dress
Posts: 648 | From: Lincolnshire | Registered: Feb 2005
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
Academic dress and judicial dress are both descended from clerical dress, so the similarities are not surprising. The Bishop's scarlet chimere is not really episcopal dress, but either Oxford or Cambridge DD undress. It comes from the days of Lambeth DDs for every Bishop.
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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LostinChelsea
Shipmate
# 5305
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Posted
quote:
Padre Joshua opined:
I was under the impression that grey and light blue were worn by deacons and possibly seminarians, black by presbyters/priests, and purple by bishops. Am I incorrect?
Ah, you're looking for consistency and logic!?
In the Episcopal Church in the USA, you'll find that customs vary, especially by diocese. In my particular diocese, vocational deacons were instructed by a previous bishop to wear grey (I've seen blue) while performing their diaconal ministries in the community. They are not to wear clericals in the parish, and they certainly aren't to wear black. Priests, on the other hand, tend to be seen in black but sometimes in whatever.
As a seminarian, I was told by friends to ask the bishop before wearing a "seminarian's collar," and color was never mentioned. I mostly avoided the whole thing and wore a shirt and tie until ordination.
Now, I wear a black clerical shirt when I need to look priesty, though a blue or grey shirt sure looks tempting when it's 100 degrees outside!
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Best when taken in moderation.
Posts: 237 | From: Deep South USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LostinChelsea:
quote:
Padre Joshua opined:
I was under the impression that grey and light blue were worn by deacons and possibly seminarians, black by presbyters/priests, and purple by bishops. Am I incorrect?
Ah, you're looking for consistency and logic!?
In the Episcopal Church in the USA, you'll find that customs vary, especially by diocese. In my particular diocese, vocational deacons were instructed by a previous bishop to wear grey (I've seen blue) while performing their diaconal ministries in the community. They are not to wear clericals in the parish, and they certainly aren't to wear black. Priests, on the other hand, tend to be seen in black but sometimes in whatever.
As a seminarian, I was told by friends to ask the bishop before wearing a "seminarian's collar," and color was never mentioned. I mostly avoided the whole thing and wore a shirt and tie until ordination.
Now, I wear a black clerical shirt when I need to look priesty, though a blue or grey shirt sure looks tempting when it's 100 degrees outside!
My experience is limited, but I have noticed thst TEC clergy seem to wear the 'ring of confidence' style of collar.
Why wouldn't a vocational deacon wear a collar in the parish? They are in Holy Orders. Certainly in the 19thC those academics at Oxford who were in deacons' orders only, used to wear what was then clerical dress (white bow tie or cravat and black or grey clothes).
Methodist deacons are able (I believe) to wear clerical shirts and blue or white is encouraged. On Google Images I noted a well known Methodist deacon wearing a black clerical shirt.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
A now-expired clerical friend was present wearing a grey clerical shirt at a papal audience with an intimate group of a thousand or so (just about 1970 IIRC) when he was recognized in the crowd by Paul VI in Latin-- Ecce sacerdos anglicanus!
Clerical shirts seem to be dying out here, to be replaced by golf shirts as the cool clerical attire. Sadly, they do not have the ascetic builds which would carry them off aesthetically.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Our Bishop sent out a decree a year or so ago -- clergy were to wear clericals at ALL diocesan functions except the casual days during clergy conferences. He also hinted pretty strongly that they should be worn regularly in the parish. Color wasn't specified.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
A decree? Really? The last person I know who tried to do that was Cardinal Bernard Law. The Jesuits used to indicate their opinion of it (and him) by wearing golf shirts (or at least anything but a clericals) instead.
[ 14. July 2012, 12:26: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
I have bought a blue clerical shirt*. Sometimes I try it on in front of the mirror, it makes me laugh everytime.
Black FFS.
AtB, Pyx_e
* Why? you ask. " A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of the small minded." I reply.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
You can come and do my last rites then.
I have a sort of fantasy of being on my deathbed at a local hospital and being approached by a minister in a blue shirt. Blue denotes, for me, the sort of churchpersonship that means that before I made my confession I would have to explain the minister what s/he had to say and do.
Too much hassle. May as well die unshriven and trust that God is as merciful as he says he is.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
My diary runs out soon, should I buy a new one or can we fit it in?
AtB Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Blue denotes, for me, the sort of churchpersonship that means that before I made my confession I would have to explain the minister what s/he had to say and do.
Light blue at least would be as likely to be seen on a RC.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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