Thread: Advent Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Advent approaches - what does your place do to mark the change of liturgical mood as we enter this season?

We eschew flowers and the Gloria in excelsis, whilst wheeling out the Advent Wreath and the purple/Sarum blue/rose vestments. We are exchanging our default Mass music for a more reflective setting (Malcolm Archer's Missa Simplex), and we are having a short penitential service next Sunday based on the trad O Antiphons (which, as enny fule kno, are an essential part of the Anglican Advent!).

All of which points to a distinct change of liturgical mood - though we will be having our usual Christingle, Carol, and Crib Services nearer Christmas itself (using the correct colour of the day, of course).

We also provide our congo with nice little devotional booklets for daily use in Advent, courtesy of the wonderfully-named Additional Curates Society!

Ian J.
 

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Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :
 
We have blue paraments and vestments for four weeks; rose is not even an appointed liturgical color in my denom. See here, although from another Lutheran denom in the US.

That said, we still keep to three violet and one pink candle on the Advent Wreath. Yes, there is a fifth white candle in the middle, lit on Christmas Eve. For the four Sundays of Advent, there will be a simple prayer at the lighting of the Advent wreath, immediately before the opening hymn, led by a "family" from the congregation.

Advent is one of those rare time of the church year when we Lutherans tend to utilize hymns of our own ethnic heritages a bit more often than usual. It's not unusual to check the credits for a hymn in the Advent section of a Lutheran hymnal and find them to be German or Scandinavian. Although our new (ca. 2006) hymnal has a broad and inclusive selection, my own church tends to go with the old chestnuts.

The children's program takes over part of the Sunday liturgy somewhere in December, in order to have a captive audience, one assumes. There will be an evening program of adult and children's performances, too.
 

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Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :
 
We are also using blue paraments, as we have a lovely set that someone generously gave us. Most United Methodist shacks have the plain reversible sets in the four colors (red/white and green/purple); the altar hanging is actually just a table runner and in my estimation leaves much to be desired. This blue set, however, is a full frontal.

We will be using three purples and a pink in our Advent wreath as well. The UM Book of Worship calls for four purples, but we don't have the fourth one, and it's not a big enough deal to me to justify the (nominal) expense.

I warned everyone that we will not be singing Christmas carols until Christmas, but that we will be singing Advent music instead. This was met with a bit of unease, but they're willing to try it out with me. I then was told that Joy to the World is actually a better Advent song than Christmas song; a quick read confirms this. So I'll be sure to work it in somewhere. Plus, songs such as "O Come, O Come, Emmanuel" and "Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus" are usually associated with Christmas around here, and we're singing those the first and second weeks of Advent. So I think people will be just fine with the music.

We're going to celebrate the Eucharist weekly during Advent. We've been doing it monthly. We'll go back to monthly for the season after Epiphany.

I'm going to chant or sing something from the door right before the greeting each week: the Magnificat on the fourth Sunday, the Song of Zechariah on the third Sunday, and the first verse of "O, Come" in Latin on the second Sunday. I'm not sure yet about the first week.

Advent is my favorite time of year, with the possible exception of Lent. I'm really excited!
 

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Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :
 
The Gloria goes away, of course, and there are the violet vestments. There is an Advent candle wreath which gets placed in the sanctuary, which I'd prefer not to have, but it's not worth the battle. At least I put the kibosh on any special ceremony attached to it.

We also sing the Litany 15 minutes before the start of the service, as we do in Lent as well.
 

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Posted by PD (# 12436) on :
 
The Advent wreath got the bullet here a few years ago after someone other than me had to get the wax out of the carpet. I was not at all sorry to see it go as there really was not anywhere in our sanctuary where it was not in the way, and there was also nowhere to put it at the front of the nave.

PD
 

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Posted by Quam Dilecta (# 12541) on :
 
Our parish will use violet vestments and eschew flowers until Christmas, although we manage manage some extra candles for Lessons and Carols on 14 December. On two of the four Sundays, the Litany will be sung in procession before the Solemn Mass.
 

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Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :
 
I have to put the Purple paraments out this week, we don't have a blue set and don't want one.

I also have to retrieve the Advent Wreath from the closet and make sure we have a reading to do in the service. My one major disappointment with Celebrate God's Presence, the United Church of Canada's service book is that it does NOT include a set of readings for lighting advent candles.

How our foremost liturgists could omit the most liturgical thing many United Church congregations do all year is utterly beyond me.
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
Advent I-IV - Altar dressed in purple, priests and deacons in purple. I don't think the parish has rose vestments, although the newish priests might. I wasn't around last year to check.

Of course no Gloria! Given the setting our parish uses, I am grateful for a four week respite.

Advent wreath - candles lit with a small prayer each Sunday liturgy. Rose candle where appropriate. Candles lit without ceremony during the week.

Mass of reconciliation in second week this year. Priests come from all over the area to expedite individual confessions. Ours also help other parishes.

There is often a service of Advent carols. Unsure about this year. Of course, that dreary, dreary, dreary O Come (O please go away) is trotted out ad naseum. I pray for the more spritely O Come Divine Messiah, and may get one airing. If I'm lucky.

Advent services continue up until Monday the 24th in the morning. After that service, hordes descend on the church to array it for the Christmas masses. Candles in the wreath are swapped out for white ones, a tree with lights erected, the creche is dusted off and installed, the altar vested in white (as will the priests and deacons be, possibly with gold trim)

I may have missed some things, but that is basically it.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Advent wreath and absence of Gloria ... and the confession later in the liturgy to generate a more penitential liturgy, post- rather than pre- breaking open the word.

Here we are moving into the sheer hell of late build-up season, with the ever present threat of cyclones and massive storms, and oppressive heat and humidity (I love it). The weather itself is powerfully preparatory, powerfully "the cry goes up, how long"
 

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Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
Of course, that dreary, dreary, dreary O Come (O please go away) is trotted out ad naseum.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Angloid:

quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
Of course, that dreary, dreary, dreary O Come (O please go away) is trotted out ad naseum.

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It can be. Heavy and slow: 'Re-jooiiice... re....joooiiiiice...' sung as if you're off to the gallows. It doesn't have to be. Sung lightly, at a brisk pace, it can be very prayerful.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bishops Finger:


Advent approaches -

... and we are having a short penitential service next Sunday based on the trad O Antiphons (which, as enny fule kno, are an essential part of the Anglican Advent!).

Ian J.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Rob:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bishops Finger:


Advent approaches -

... and we are having a short penitential service next Sunday based on the trad O Antiphons (which, as enny fule kno, are an essential part of the Anglican Advent!).

Ian J.

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Actually the O antiphons are an essential part of of the office of vespers in the Roman and Benedictine breviaries as a antiphon to the Magnificat. So it's far more accurate to say that the antiphons are borrowed for Anglican use and to indicate that fact.*

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

Not quite. O sapientia is in the 1662 BCP Calendar and Common Worship Advent material (in times & Seasons) provides the antiphons and whole offices based around them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Angloid:

quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
Of course, that dreary, dreary, dreary O Come (O please go away) is trotted out ad naseum.

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It can be. Heavy and slow: 'Re-jooiiice... re....joooiiiiice...' sung as if you're off to the gallows. It doesn't have to be. Sung lightly, at a brisk pace, it can be very prayerful.

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quote:

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Originally posted by so wound up:
hi by the way, i'm new here.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Percy B:


What hymn or words opens Advent at your church or chapel?

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quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
Purple is the colour of penitence. Advent is a penitential season, as is Lent. However, Advent purple is not Lenten purple.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Percy B:

quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
Purple is the colour of penitence. Advent is a penitential season, as is Lent. However, Advent purple is not Lenten purple.

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Thanks, that rather begs the question why not the same purple.

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Originally posted by venbede:
At older fashioned Anglican places with catholic leanings, I've known Advent mass start (breathtakingly) with the Advent Prose

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Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
Mamacita, any chance of some pics of your new frontal (and I hazard a guess vestmnents to go with it?)? I'm looking at going into blue for next Advent - and just haven't come up with any material that I really like.

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I would be happy to, if you don't mind waiting until the weekend so I can take new photos (the ones I took last year are in poor light and don't do justice to the colors).
 

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Posted by PaulBC (# 13712) on :
 
To morrow we start with the Advent litinay
process around the prerimeter of the church then down the nave . After which I assume we will light the advent candle,
Then afternoon on 09/12 Advent carol service, the Christmas one comes later.
Have a blessed Advent

 

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Posted by PD (# 12436) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Percy B:

quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
Purple is the colour of penitence. Advent is a penitential season, as is Lent. However, Advent purple is not Lenten purple.

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Thanks, that rather begs the question why not the same purple.

I see both seasons more as seasons of preparation, part of which includes penitence.

By the way isn't that Nouwen quote good.

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I tend to equate Advent with the 'Gesimas oth of which are kind 'OK, you lot, pay attention seasons!' The violet is somber, but not really penitential. OTOH, Lent is time to break out the Array with its illusions to the instruments of the Passion, and sackcloth colour, and to remove colour in general from the liturgy. Red and black sneak back in at Passiontide but the visuals are still very limited.

PD

[ 02. December 2012, 03:05: Message edited by: PD ]
 

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Posted by Emendator Liturgia (# 17245) on :
 
Mamacita, only too happy to wait until you have some pics ready.

Our Advent season of preparation kicked off well today: to pick up a couple of points others have raised or commented on:

** "O Come, O Come' follwed on the Nouwen reading and to pick up the excitment of being people of hope, we did not drag it along, as so often can be the case

**The youngest member of the community, a lively 3 year old (whom I had the pleasure of baptising a couple of years ago, and his father as well later on), enjoyed lighting the candle of hope

**The 'O Come' which featured in the antiphon and the hymn was echosed in the intercession when at the end of each the intercessor said + response:
Maranatha:
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

**In place of the Angelus we used the Alma Redemptoris Mater, with the traditional chant being played in the background.

During coffee time people commented that they had felt and understood better the change in liturgical seasons; that they now saw why the focus of the First Sunday in Advent was on the Second Coming; and how we have to be preparing not just for festivities but with our Lord's Coming, whenever that happens (fitted nicely in with some comments on the Mayan Calendar and other forms of 'the end is nigh'!

As a liturgist, I think I can say with some degree of confidence, "By jove, I think we got it!"
 

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Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :
 
Last year Advent was as follows at a church I know, which has vestments, incense and a very high standard choir:

Advent 1 Sermon devoted to encouraging us to send a Christmas card to a prisoner. (I have been doing this for years at my previous church, where it was mentioned under the notices.) No reference to the readings.

Advent 2. The annual Toy Service, in which children bring presents to church for those less fortunate than themselves. (And where do the less fortunate go to church, I wondered?) Young people in church for the whole service and giving two dramatised presentations. Two hymns were “This little light of mine” and “If I had a hammer”. (I will admit that the curate’s jazz riff on the piano was the best thing in the service.) The lectionary readings were replaced by one gospel reading, and that not from the lectionary.

Advent 3 Two large Christmas trees in place because from that evening on there would be the first in a succession of carol services. The sermon made no reference to the readings but plenty to the Christmas trees. It was a condemnation of those who believe Christmas celebrations should not be anticipated. Lots of people who don’t go to church go to carol services and this was an evangelistic opportunity. Don’t be stuffy and not join in.

Advent 4. The curate preached on the readings of the day with a sober but unambiguous exposition of the place of Mary in the Christian faith. I thanked him warmly as I left.
 

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Posted by seasick (# 48) on :
 
Yesterday, I visited a church where the Advent wreath included four purple candles (fair enough) and the central candle was the Paschal Candle. Is this common? What are you thoughts on it? It struck me as being in danger of confusing symbols a bit.
 

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Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :
 
Possibly a bit confused. Almost certainly very confused.

But I believe the Roman rite allows the lighting of the Paschal Candle on all greater feasts outside Easter, so it could be seen as building up to the major feast of Christmas.

There is a danger in splitting the Incarnation and the Atonement, Christmas and Easter, and if this is trying to show their unity it could be a good thing.
 

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Posted by Emendator Liturgia (# 17245) on :
 
Personally, I'd prefer the use of the three purple and one rose candle (even if no rose vestments) - and a white Christ candle. That way, as suggested, the avoid the problem of one symbol being overlaid on another, to the detriment of both.
 

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Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :
 
Well that was a most satisfactory beginning at my current MotR House of Refuge... Advent Prose, Come thou long-expected Jesus and... Wachtet Auf!

I enjoyed that!
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by L'organist:
I would hope no one is yet into the O antiphons: they should start on the 16th December and then be sung daily up to Christmas Eve: likewise, to have O come, O come Emmanuel as a hymn at the beginning of Advent is just plain wrong.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chorister:

quote:

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Originally posted by L'organist:
I would hope no one is yet into the O antiphons: they should start on the 16th December and then be sung daily up to Christmas Eve: likewise, to have O come, O come Emmanuel as a hymn at the beginning of Advent is just plain wrong.

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We sang them yesterday afternoon at Buckfast Abbey. Each O Antiphon (after each Advent collect and reading) was sung by young voices, then SATB, then followed by a hymn or anthem.

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quote:

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Originally posted by PD:

quote:

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Originally posted by Percy B:

quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
Purple is the colour of penitence. Advent is a penitential season, as is Lent. However, Advent purple is not Lenten purple.

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Thanks, that rather begs the question why not the same purple.

I see both seasons more as seasons of preparation, part of which includes penitence.

By the way isn't that Nouwen quote good.

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I tend to equate Advent with the 'Gesimas PD

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chorister:

quote:

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Originally posted by L'organist:
I would hope no one is yet into the O antiphons: they should start on the 16th December and then be sung daily up to Christmas Eve: likewise, to have O come, O come Emmanuel as a hymn at the beginning of Advent is just plain wrong.

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We sang them yesterday afternoon at Buckfast Abbey. Each O Antiphon (after each Advent collect and reading) was sung by young voices, then SATB, then followed by a hymn or anthem.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Angloid:

quote:

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Originally posted by Chorister:

quote:

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Originally posted by L'organist:
I would hope no one is yet into the O antiphons: they should start on the 16th December and then be sung daily up to Christmas Eve: likewise, to have O come, O come Emmanuel as a hymn at the beginning of Advent is just plain wrong.

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We sang them yesterday afternoon at Buckfast Abbey. Each O Antiphon (after each Advent collect and reading) was sung by young voices, then SATB, then followed by a hymn or anthem.

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Just come back from the Advent Procession at Liverpool Cathedral, based on the Antiphons (which were sung to plainchant and English words). Very impressive and moving. It might be 'wrong' to sing them at Evening Prayer before 17 December, but they are profound and scriptural and set the tone well at the beginning of Advent in this context.

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:
Meant to add - this morning we also launched crib figures Mary and Joseph on their journey - they go to a different house each night until they reach the Christingle service on Christmas Eve.

The rota tries to alternate between people from the two churches in our benefice in an attempt to help people get to know each other better.

I think it's called 'Possada'.

(As Mary and Joseph weren't married, I wonder if they sleep in separate bedrooms!)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:
One of the best parts of the traditional La Posada is that the teenagers get to play the Devil and harass the couple playing Mary and Joseph. Or if you're not comfortable having teenagers identify with the Devil, I've also seen them assigned to and take great joy in the role of slamming the doors in the faces of Mary and Joseph.

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Spiffy, that might be regional thing. I've never come across that bit myself with Las Posadas or even heard of it, to be really honest.

On the other hand, something very similar is part of another Mexican Advent/Christmas tradition: Las Pastorelas or the "Shepherd Plays", also known as Los Pastores. In these, the devil and his minions harass the poor shepherds as they try to make their way to Bethlehem. Maybe in some places bits of Las Pastorelas have been incorporated into Las Posadas.

A quick and good description of Las Posadas from Disney, of all people:

Disney's Las Posadas.

One of my first rants on the Ship was on Eccles, pointing out that Las Posadas is a novena. Traditionally, it begins with the praying of the rosary. In fact, the sung dialogue that accompanies the procession is called la letanía, or the litany.

Most people know this version of the music Letanía de las Posadas. It's very traditional (even the singing off key is traditional ) and most well-known but it isn't the only traditional music out there. In New Mexico there's a different setting to the same lyrics and in the ancestral village (aka mom's hometown) we sing a different set of verses with a different set of melodies.

For a taste of music from Las Pastorelas, you can listen to a video I embedded on my links page last year where I also provided a translation of the lyrics: Canto de Pastorela.
 

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Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 
I sadly missed Advent Sunday at my church in Northampton as I was stuck on a Christian Union weekend away, so I'm not sure what we do - but certainly full violet vestments and no Gloria. I am pretty certain we have rose vestments for Gaudete, and I will be wearing my pink top at least
 

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Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
Call me slow. I'd never realised there were so many traditions attached to the Advent wreath, although I'd got as far as lighting one candle for each Sunday, and having one of those candles that burn down through the dates as far as Christmas Eve.

In fact, I haven't thought much about Advent at all since I stopped being in the Anglican church choir years ago, but am making this year different and loving it. We sang Advent hymns yesterday at the Baptist church we're part of, and lit the first white candle on the wreath, and the talk was about hope.

Nen - off on a hunt for blue and pink candles today.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:
if you're not comfortable having teenagers identify with the Devil ...

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they need to play to identify?
 

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Posted by daisymay (# 1480) on :
 
We have two little ones, Mary and Joseph, and the two little children take them home for a week and then other kids take them and eventually on Christmas Day, they come into the church "permanently" and we have a load of little people visiting Jesus as a baby and there are the sheep who come with their workers and the Angels. The children love to have all this to look at.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Well, exactly - and that's why we used them at our own little Advent Liturgy yesterday evening. One can be a bit too precious about such things, IMHO.

Ian J.
 

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Posted by daisymay (# 1480) on :
 
And yesterday, Sunday evening, we had over a hundred people, with at least 20 choir and musicians, and we sang nice hymns, "O come, O come, Emmanuel", "Come thou long-expected Jesus", "Hills of the north, rejoice", "L! He comes with clouds descending", "When you walk through a storm", "Guide me, O thou great redeemer". The choir also sang loads of hymns in languages, and one sang regularly between hymns, lots of "Antiphon". We had 7 Bible readings.

After, we had nice bits of sweet food and all sorts of things to drink, cold and hot ones.

St John's Advent/Xmas all mentioned as "Exodus!

We spent loads of time chatting to loads of us afterwards as we enjoyed our food and drinks as well as what the service was like.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 


My last post referred to the use of the O Antiphons......I didn't spot page 2......

Ian J.
 

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Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Pancho:

quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:
One of the best parts of the traditional La Posada is that the teenagers get to play the Devil and harass the couple playing Mary and Joseph. Or if you're not comfortable having teenagers identify with the Devil, I've also seen them assigned to and take great joy in the role of slamming the doors in the faces of Mary and Joseph.

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Spiffy, that might be regional thing. I've never come across that bit myself with Las Posadas or even heard of it, to be really honest.

On the other hand, something very similar is part of another Mexican Advent/Christmas tradition: Las Pastorelas or the "Shepherd Plays", also known as Los Pastores. In these, the devil and his minions harass the poor shepherds as they try to make their way to Bethlehem. Maybe in some places bits of Las Pastorelas have been incorporated into Las Posadas.

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Dude, I'm California Mexican. We get all sorts of stuff mixed up. Okay kids! Who wants a hot dog taco?
 

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Posted by Clodsley Shovel (# 16662) on :
 
We had a service themed on being ready for the coming of Jesus. The first advent candle was lit and we finished with the wonderful Lo! He comes with clouds descending. Which threw into sharp relief the awful banality of Kendricks All I once held dear, that we'd sung earlier. (You're my all, you're the best.... )

[ 03. December 2012, 21:43: Message edited by: Clodsley Shovel ]
 

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Posted by Bostonman (# 17108) on :
 
The best part of our Advent 1 service was the killer hymn selection: O Come o come Emmanuel, Lo How a Rose E'er Blooming, and Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence. Oh, and a totally unmemorable fourth one. But those are three of my favorites overall.
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
Mamacita, any chance of some pics of your new frontal (and I hazard a guess vestmnents to go with it?)? I'm looking at going into blue for next Advent - and just haven't come up with any material that I really like.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clodsley Shovel:
We had a service themed on being ready for the coming of Jesus. The first advent candle was lit and we finished with the wonderful Lo! He comes with clouds descending. Which threw into sharp relief the awful banality of Kendricks All I once held dear, that we'd sung earlier. (You're my all, you're the best.... )

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Dear Clodsley Shovel,

As a relative newcomer, you are probably unaware that we try to keep comments and discussions about our least favourite bits of church music to the Dead Horses board, as they tend to cause the discussion board equivalent of fist-fights!

Otherwise, welcome to Ecclesiantics and enjoy your posting...

dj_ordinaire, Eccles host
 

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Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
oooo, ooooo, ooooo. Who is gonna use the coming royal child as an analogy for advent?



And before you all laugh, methinks it's a brilliant analogy. People here in Oz are very excited about it.

So what - Jesus -first in line for the throne and this heir fourth? ( rather than third?)
 

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Posted by Clodsley Shovel (# 16662) on :
 
Dj_ordinaire Point taken, it was rather bitter of me.
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Evensong:
oooo, ooooo, ooooo. Who is gonna use the coming royal child as an analogy for advent?



And before you all laugh, methinks it's a brilliant analogy. People here in Oz are very excited about it.

So what - Jesus -first in line for the throne and this heir fourth? ( rather than third?)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clodsley Shovel:
Dj_ordinaire Point taken, it was rather bitter of me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bostonman:
The best part of our Advent 1 service was the killer hymn selection: O Come o come Emmanuel, Lo How a Rose E'er Blooming, and Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence. Oh, and a totally unmemorable fourth one. But those are three of my favorites overall.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mamacita:

quote:

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Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
Mamacita, any chance of some pics of your new frontal (and I hazard a guess vestmnents to go with it?)? I'm looking at going into blue for next Advent - and just haven't come up with any material that I really like.

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Our Advent vestments are very different. It was a commissioned set made by a local quilt artist so the fabrics are not lush, but the detail with which the pieces are assembled is exquisite. There are many shades of blue and purple, and I believe the work conveys an almost cosmic sort of power as in the "Stir Up" verse on the banner. The frontal makes me think of the night sky over Bethlehem.

Here is a Flickr set showing the altar frontal, pulpit and altar falls, banner, and chasuble. Also close-ups of the quilting on the frontal; and closeups of front and back of the chasuble. I didn't get one of the stole but it is the plain blue with about 10" of the quilted pattern at each end.

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Those are absolutely beautiful! I love the combining of the blue and purple together. Do you use them throughout Advent or do you have a rose set too?
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 
Thank you, Jade Constable. We use these throughout Advent. I don't think we own a pink set.

Also, I think the tradition, if one uses Sarum blue for Advent, is to use it all four weeks, not to do 3 weeks blue and 1 week rose -- but I could be mistaken.

[ 05. December 2012, 03:07: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
 

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Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
Mamacita, those are stunning!

Nen - wanting to come to an Advent service at Mamacita's church.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Where did the use of rose-pink on Lent IV and Advent III come from? It doesn't seem to have been part of Sarum Use (and BTW, the Blessed Percy says that the term violet can mean purple, lilac, dark blue or azure!).

We used our extremely vivid violet chasuble on Sunday - next week, it's the turn of the older (and darker) violet, then the rose-pink, and, on the last Sunday of Advent, the antique Sarum Blue (a dark, almost royal blue).

We are fortunate to have such a wide selection of vestments - all we need now is a nice saffron yellow set, for Feasts of Confessors.......

Ian J.
 

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Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :
 
The blue comes from the Sarum use (and related Olde English customs), and it certainly never had pink as an alternative for Gaudete Sunday (Advent III). So, to be consistent one should use blue for all four Sundays.

The use of rose-pink was instead related to old Italian customs which eventually spread around many Roman Catholic churches, at least as an 'optional extra'.

Now, it should be added that 'consistency' is a negligible quantity when it comes to liturgical colours, and indeed much else related to Christian worship. Probably a good thing too IMO. So I think trying to claim that using blue and pink together is in some way 'wrong' is a category error of some kind.
 

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Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mamacita:
Thank you, Jade Constable. We use these throughout Advent. I don't think we own a pink set.

Also, I think the tradition, if one uses Sarum blue for Advent, is to use it all four weeks, not to do 3 weeks blue and 1 week rose -- but I could be mistaken.

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Sorry, I didn't realise they were being used for Sarum blue (I thought they were violet and blue together) - and yes, Sarum blue is for all four weeks.
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
Our choir excelled itself last night for our Advent Carol Service (and they have three University Christmas Carol Services later this week on a roll-on-roll-off back-to-back basis because there’s t many students and staff tyo fit in all in one go).

They sang:

Rorate caeli – new commission by B. Todd
The Lamb – Tavener
How lovely are the messengers - Mendelssohn
Adam lay y bounden – P. Ledger
Cherry Tree Carol – E. Poston
Cradle Song – R. Warren

I love seeing all the students coming in, some with reindeer antlers – though I wonder how many are disappointed because they were expecting Christmas carols.
 

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Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :
 
I very much enjoyed a solemn celebration of the Ambrosian Rite for a Sunday in Advent this morning... I was also pleased to note that the preacher referred on several occasions to the fact that this was the Fifth Sunday in Advent, presumably for the benefit of any blow-ins who might think it is only the third

Given the practice for Christmas markets in central Europe to begin at Martinmas, I wonder if the practice of starting Advent then might have something to it!
 

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