Ship of Fools: Pillar lectionary: unfit for purpose

Thread: Pillar lectionary: unfit for purpose Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

The Pillar lectionary is designed for churches and cathedrals (mainly the latter) who have occasional visitors.

An agnostic friend of mine likes church music and turns up to cathedral choral evensong occasionally. the last time he went, the second lesson was from Titus 2, all about wives being submissive to their husbands.

It's all very well for me to explain that this is a deutero-Pauline passage and draws on Roman household codes but I wonder what view of Christianity get from such readings as this.

Such passages can be explained by preaching but there is rarelyu preaching at daily evensong.

Shouldn't the Pillar lectionary leave out difficult passages?

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :

Or you could lay the blame at the feet of whoever decided not to preach (which may be a decision left to prevailing ecclesial culture rather than anyone's direct decision -- a structural sin). I do think there are some passages which simply demand preaching whenever they are read. This would be one (as would any account of genocide from the Former Prophets). My preference would be not to critique the lectionary for including them, but the clergy for not preaching.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

There is never a sermon at ferial cathedral Sung Evensong, and this extra lectionary has been devised specifically to meet the requirement.

Posted by Imersge Canfield (# 17431) on :

What is a Pillar lectionary ? I've never heard of it before.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

If you have the C of E red booklet, the Lectionary, it is at the back of the book. It is a series of one OT and one NT readings for each day of the weekday of the year other than festivals.

The usual lectionary reads through the books of the Bible more or less continually (we skipt from Isaiah 14 yesterday to Isaiah 17 today). I imagine the idea of the pillar lectionary is to avoid odd bleeding chunks, and is meant to be used for cathedral evensongs and the like.

Leo is suggesting it is not doing what it sets out to do. However, I've just looked at the pillar lectionary for the last six months, and I can't see any readings from Titus. I've checked the three readings from 1 & 2 Timothy, and they have no reference to married life whatever.

Cathedrals can be surprisingly wayward at times. Are you sure it was from the pillar lectionary?

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I've just looked at the pillar lectionary for the last six months, and I can't see any readings from Titus. I've checked the three readings from 1 & 2 Timothy, and they have no reference to married life whatever.

Cathedrals can be surprisingly wayward at times. Are you sure it was from the pillar lectionary?

Yes - Wednesday 14th November

Posted by Imersge Canfield (# 17431) on :

Thanks very much venbede. I had never heard of the term 'Pillar' lectionary before

[ 27. November 2012, 19:35: Message edited by: Imersge Canfield ]

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

Leo

There is a link here to the Pillar Lectionary for Common Worship. There are two passages from Titus in the whole thing, one in a couple of weeks time and one during Easter. There is nothing from 2 Titus.

Jengie

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I've just looked up the pillar lectionary and leo is quite right: Titus 2 on that date. Pity.

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Leo

There is a link here to the Pillar Lectionary for Common Worship. There are two passages from Titus in the whole thing, one in a couple of weeks time and one during Easter. There is nothing from 2 Titus.

Jengie

I don't know when the lectionary was changed, but that version dates to 2010. The current version (in the Advent 2011-Eve of Advent 2012 book) includes Titus 2.1-10 for 14 November.

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

Did we have this thread a month ago?

Posted by Peter Owen (# 134) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
There is a link here to the Pillar Lectionary for Common Worship. There are two passages from Titus in the whole thing, one in a couple of weeks time and one during Easter. There is nothing from 2 Titus.

Try looking on page 6.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

That is Titus Chapter 2 not 2 Titus and it is in Advent, hence mentioned in the above post!

Sorry using the search facility is so much easier than checking individual pages!

Jengie

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I'm confused. There is only one letter to Titus and its has a second chapter. In the pillar lectionary for this year verses 1-10 occur on the Wednesday of the Third Sunday before Advent.

And leo and I think it is a bad choice.

What's 2 Titus?

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Titus 2, as I said in the OP.

Anyone know how we can 'complain' to the lectionary compilers and ask for a change?

It's not that i want to dilute The Word but i want to encourage 'milk' as the scripture says, for newbies.

[ 28. November 2012, 20:12: Message edited by: leo ]

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It's not that i want to dilute The Word but i want to encourage 'milk' as the scripture says, for newbies.

For "milk" read "cop out" perhaps?

Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :

With the tendency for cathedral congos to include people dropping in on spec - is there any recap-type exposition given around stuff like the passage quoted? Stuff that covers the whole "only one side of a conversation in correspondence" aspect?

Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :

It's very easy for the reader to say a few lines that give a little context; I've heard that a few times in cathedral services. I'd have thought it was a good idea if you look round and see mostly tourists. There are a lot of passages that need a little help to stand on their own, as it were.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I'm pretty confident you could read through the entire liturgical books of the Orthodox and Tridentine Roman churches and you'd never find that sort of passage used. The primary purpose of the readings is worship, not social instruction. *

It is certainly to contact the Liturgical Commission - you could always put a letter in the post to Church House if you can't find "contact us" link online.

* Although it would be absurd for cathedrals to use anything other than the structure of BCP Evening Prayer, I think two long readings are far too much and I only use one in my private use of the office.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It's not that i want to dilute The Word but i want to encourage 'milk' as the scripture says, for newbies.
For "milk" read "cop out" perhaps?

If you said that to St Paul, he'd write you an epistle. And you really don't want to be on the receiving end of an epistle.

I'd never heard of the Pillar lectionary. I think it's a fantastic idea. In theory. Right up to the point where somebody sticks Titus 2.1-10 in it. I mean, even the rest of Titus 2 would be an improvement.

Posted by Percy B (# 17238) on :

I like the idea of such a lectionary.

Many c of e lectionaries give such huge chunks of scripture. They also are designed for those who say an office day after day after day, I don't, so a stand alone by day lectionaries sounds good to me.

Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :

I thought the pillar lectionary was more aimed at avoiding readings which either only made sense if you'd heard the previous day, or if you heard the following day, and to provide readings of reasonable length. I agree that Titus 2 would be unlikely to make favourable impression on a passing agnostic, though I'm intrigued that it was the one verse about wives being submissive to husbands that was picked up on, rather than the verses about slaves being submissive to masters. That said, I think there may also have been a desire not to 'airbrush' less palatable aspects of the Bible.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It's not that i want to dilute The Word but i want to encourage 'milk' as the scripture says, for newbies.
For "milk" read "cop out" perhaps?
If you said that to St Paul, he'd write you an epistle. And you really don't want to be on the receiving end of an epistle.

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