Thread: Clergy shirts Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by christianbuddhist (# 17579) on :
 
Does anyone know what the various shirt colours (and types of collar!) say about churchmanship? Especially in the Church of England?

My impression is as follows but I will gladly be corrected.

Black - anglo-catholic
Grey - broad, probably still uses the ASB
Light blue - evo
Dark blue - con-evo
Green - hospital chaplain
Multi-coloured - a bit of a maverick
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
I never really connected the color of clerical shirts to churchmanship. So far as I've seen, bishops wear purple, and clerics with good taste wear black.
 

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Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :
 
Well a vicar I know wears all of those, plus a brown one, a fawn one and a striped one.

It is probably true that anglo catholics wear black, or don't wear coloured shirts. Other than that I know clergy who wear many different coloured shirts.

Last week our vicar turned up in a peacock blue one and I have seen many a female clergy-person wearing a pink shirt, and last week I saw one wearing a maroon one(a bit too close to purple for my liking)

The church I used to belong to the (female) curate wore flowered and patterned shirts in many colours and IIRC, she even had a gold one.

You may have to update your chart of the meaning of colours...
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
I know one who wears mustard-yellow. he is a member of the conservative evangelical Reform.
 

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Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 
I think for male clergy it goes -

black: it's very slimming
grey: heterosexual
light blue: it's what everybody else at college was ordering
dark blue: it's what I thought everybody else at college was ordering
green: there's a baby in the house. The stains don't show as much
multi-coloured: the yoof are so important.

Or something like that. And obviously I wouldn't dream of speaking for my female colleagues.



[ETA: welcome aboard, christianbuddhist!]

[ 01. March 2013, 16:03: Message edited by: Adeodatus ]
 

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Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:
I know one who wears mustard-yellow. he is a member of the conservative evangelical Reform.

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There's a local Lutheran pastor who regularly wears the same -- it's the color of butterscotch pudding.
 

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Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Never really made a connection with churchmanship, but the standard here would be black, grey if it's very hot outside, any shade of blue if you are a hospital chaplain and green if you are an army chaplain or church army trained.
 

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Posted by seasick (# 48) on :
 
Mine are all black... I find that to be a very adequate selection of colours.
 

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Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
My own thinking when I wear:

• Black = very trad. can look a bit grim
• Grey = I hope this doesn't look too washed out
• Blue = great colour, people may think I'm a Methodist - especially in a hospital context
• Green = another great colour, No-one knows whether this has any meaning, so it's very noncommittal

• Pinstripe = should have proper collar and tie, and a suit
• Pastels = not good colours for me
• Yellow or orange = see Pastels
• Red = good colour for me, but suggests I think I ought to be a chaplain to the queen
• Purple = also a good colour for me, but looks as if I have episcopal ambitions, and leads to humorous remarks or genuine confusion

quote:

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Originally posted by christianbuddhist:
Grey - broad, probably still uses the ASB

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amos:
Black shirt--new shirt
The Fairtrade clerical shirts tend to fade after a few washes, so:
Grey shirt--old shirt, must get some dye.

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Laughs. I always suspect grey is tired black.

I much prefer to see clerics in black. Not keen on other colours while Floral is horrible and White just strange.

Carys

(Missed autocorrect weirdness)

[ 01. March 2013, 20:28: Message edited by: Carys ]
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
When I was ordained 25 years ago white was kind of progressive Carflick. I wore only black or white - the fawns and blues and mustards were the preserve of Protestants. Later I dropped white, a) because I can't wear white without attracting Bolognese, and b) because I became for a while a strictly black priest.

These days I rarely wear them except for liturgical events, and then only black, but I no longer do the black priest thing (black trousers, shoes, sox, shirt, jumper ... not least because it's too bloody hot up here)

For a short time a sort of burgundy came out but I remember Archbishop Penman banning it as too close to purple.
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
I share Hart's and Seasick's take on full and tab collars. I don't wear a tonsure one; I dislike the snaps.

The barrister's shirt with rabat (always black) and clerical collar was very Staggers a few years ago.
 

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Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
I remember attending an ordination service about 20 years ago where one of the ordinands wore a pale yellow clerical shirt. His wife wore a dress of exactly the same colour.
 

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Posted by Manipled Mutineer (# 11514) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Amos:
I share Hart's and Seasick's take on full and tab collars. I don't wear a tonsure one; I dislike the snaps.

The barrister's shirt with rabat (always black) and clerical collar was very Staggers a few years ago.

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My friend was indeed a Staggers Bag, although a few years further back than that.
 

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Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on :
 
Black and only black.
I have all the various kinds of collars except real linen. They scare me.
Also, it is EVIL that certain collars and studs only fit certain brands. It's like being tied to a chain store. Ugh!

I've never worn the white shirt and rabat. Looks cool. No, it looks hot! (either sense).

I miss the days of being barefoot at the altar, and clergy dress being black shorts, open neck short sleeve white shirt with a cross around the neck. Works for me.

Most of the time, either in black shirt, collar that came with the thing, black trousers, black socks and black shoes with a black jacket. I also wear a modest crucifix, and walk around with an Australian hat and staring at an iPhone.

Mufti is same as above sans clergy shirt and collar.

Formal is cassock.

In my wardrobe, there is a grey clergy shirt hanging just out of reach. I have no idea how it got there. I don't even know the size. PM me if anybody wants it.
 

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Posted by Triple Tiara (# 9556) on :
 
In the RC Church colours are certainly no guide to any particular outlook. Even the most conservative of Cardinals sometimes sport colours other than black. Some Cardinals even wear pale blue .

Ordinarily I would wear black, but if it is sweltering I do have a few white shirts as well.
 

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Posted by Circuit Rider (# 13088) on :
 
Here in the Untied Methodist Church clericals are optional and there is no set color scheme, so one will see all colors. Just like our liturgy which no one is required to use.

Sometimes I see bishops wearing purple and elders wearing black.

Personally I wear only black shirts. Tab collar for weekdays and band collar for Sunday and special occasions.
 

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Posted by Emendator Liturgia (# 17245) on :
 
With apologies to my fellow Ozzie Zappa - my wardrobe has a mix of both black and white tonsure shirts, 50/50 black and white (no, not on the same shirt!). In my former diocese of Bathurst summer was so hot that an open neck shirt with with either collar crosses or a simple crucifix was uniform.

Here in the Diocese of Sydney, even that sort of official attire is the exception rather than the usual - hence why I am more 'black' here when out and about.
 

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Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :
 
Reminds me of what Henry Ford said when asked if he would allow the Model T to come out in color:

You can have any color you want----

so long as it's black.

Never did like clerical shirts/collars. Usually wear a nice tie.
 

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Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on :
 
I've been surprised to see RC and Orthodox priests in ties (of course pretending not to notice)., and surprised to see Methodists in collars blue or grey short, IIRC (and pretending not to notice.) I've usually seen Lutheran clergy in clericals most of the time.

And certain Anglican/Episcopal types who seem veritably ashamed to be forced into a a collar. And one or two who for whom "high church" is a mustard yellow clerical collar or what have you with jeans and ghastly homemade stole replete with personal symbols and/or their kids photos ironed onto it and perhaps a dry cleaners tag pinned on it.

Sorry for sounding judgemental.

There is also a class of lay people who love clerical shirts. At least in my acquaintance. A few I've met are sincere Christians but have deep spiritual and other problems. (Sorry--issues). They are often ordained by printing out a certificate from some kind of website, and then type in their credit card numbers at Wippels. They attend on Sunday, but "practice Mass" at home, and I've seen a few in hospitals. These shirts aren't just for clergy any more
 

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Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Triple Tiara:


Ordinarily I would wear black, but if it is sweltering I do have a few white shirts as well. [/QB]

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OOh a tropical uniform
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Amos:
I share Hart's and Seasick's take on full and tab collars. I don't wear a tonsure one; I dislike the snaps.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hart:

quote:

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Originally posted by Amos:
I share Hart's and Seasick's take on full and tab collars. I don't wear a tonsure one; I dislike the snaps.

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OK, this thread is now showing up a lacuna in my formation. What's the difference between a tonsure and a full collar? What I call my full one has snaps, does that mean it's a tonsure collar?

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This may not be accurate, but when I hear "full collar," I think of the white strip of either plastic or linen or whatever that goes all the way around the neck, as favored by my Presiding Bishop. Synonyms include "jampot" and "ring of confidence," I think.

If it has a black overlay on top of it to create the effect of a cassock collar, whether the overlay is part of the shirt which snaps onto the white part, or a separate piece that slides over the bottom of the white part, that's what I understand as a "tonsure collar." The Archdeacon from rev. seems to favor these.

And in my little corner of the world, wearing clerical shirts at all marks one as either Roman Catholic or a little strange. The last (Lutheran) conference (like a deanery, I think) meeting I went to, apart from the celebrant and assistants at worship, I could count the clerical collars among the several dozen clergyfolk on one hand, and that included mine (I'm a seminarian on internship). I have a feeling that if it wasn't on a Sunday afternoon with some people coming straight from their own shacks' regular Sunday worship, it would have been the celebrant, the assistants, and me, because yeah, I'm a little strange.

[ 02. March 2013, 14:40: Message edited by: Kayarecee ]
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I think for male clergy it goes -

....grey: heterosexual

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Oh - is there a gay one? Perhaps worn underneath a grey one so as not to upset the bishop?
 

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Posted by christianbuddhist (# 17579) on :
 
Thanks for your replies. Really interesting


Spike originally wrote

quote:

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Unlikely as ASB is no longer authorised and hasn't been for quite some time, but would probably use Eucharistic Prayer F or H in Common Worship.

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True. But the grey shirt wearer would know that you can still use ASB morning and evening prayer under Common Worship services of the word provision
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
There are parishes that still use ASB EP.
 

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Posted by WearyPilgrim (# 14593) on :
 
While we're on this subject, I was taught many years ago that the width of the "step" in one's rabat or cassock delineated one's churchmanship. Narrow steps were/are worn by Catholics, Lutherans and Anglo-Catholics; wider steps (2" or more) by Broad Church and Evangelical clergy of the Anglican tradition and by Presbyterians and Free Church Protestants (in part so as to accommodate the wearing of bands). Is there really any truth to all this? I usually wear a neckband collar without a step at all, though I do have a rabat with a wide step, which barely fits nowadays.
 

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Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :
 
leo: Pink? Better yet: Rainbow Color?

I was not high church, true; but I was not low church either. I was a happy medium. I still wear my Franciscan Alb when I am leading worship.
 

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Posted by Corvo (# 15220) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
There are parishes that still use ASB EP.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Corvo:

quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
There are parishes that still use ASB EP.

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Isn't that because everything in it is authorized by CW?

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Corvo:

quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
There are parishes that still use ASB EP.

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Isn't that because everything in it is authorized by CW?

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No. Not everything in it is so authorised.

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:
But CW has its OWN version of EP and it is very different from ASB. For example, the lighting of lamps.

ASB EP is just a modern language form of 1662.

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I think for male clergy it goes -

....grey: heterosexual

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Oh - is there a gay one?

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It's more a matter of style ...
 

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Posted by Alisdair (# 15837) on :
 
Likewise, many colours, but hardly ever black---especially not on hospital wards.
 

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Posted by christianbuddhist (# 17579) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Alisdair:
Likewise, many colours, but hardly ever black---especially not on hospital wards.

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quote:

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Originally posted by christianbuddhist:

quote:

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Originally posted by Alisdair:
Likewise, many colours, but hardly ever black---especially not on hospital wards.

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I think you can get away with black in hospitals as long as you combine it with a nice cardigan or jumper in a cheerful colour. Plain black is too austere, you might as well dress up as Death and have done with it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by christianbuddhist:

quote:

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Originally posted by Alisdair:
Likewise, many colours, but hardly ever black---especially not on hospital wards.

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I think you can get away with black in hospitals as long as you combine it with a nice cardigan or jumper in a cheerful colour. Plain black is too austere, you might as well dress up as Death and have done with it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Enoch:
Fifty or so years ago, there was a fashion among progressive clergy to wear white ties. It was presented as a modernisation of the mid-nineteenth century white cravate, then worn wrapped round a a high collar and with a high black waistcoat. It never seemed to catch on. I haven't seen it worn for many years.

Unfortunately, perhaps, white ties with black shirts tend to go with dark glasses and a criminal record.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amos:

quote:

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Originally posted by christianbuddhist:

quote:

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Originally posted by Alisdair:
Likewise, many colours, but hardly ever black---especially not on hospital wards.

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I think you can get away with black in hospitals as long as you combine it with a nice cardigan or jumper in a cheerful colour. Plain black is too austere, you might as well dress up as Death and have done with it.

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Nonsense! I've been getting away with plain black on hospital wards for years. A lick of lipstick does the trick.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Charles Read:
I have clerical shirts of many colours but only one is patterned - narrow blue and white stripes. I even have one that is canary yellow - but the collar is too tight now. Must get it altered because that shirt is so offensive to wear it gave me great pleasure in winding up other clergy.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Enoch:
Fifty or so years ago, there was a fashion among progressive clergy to wear white ties. It was presented as a modernisation of the mid-nineteenth century white cravate, then worn wrapped round a a high collar and with a high black waistcoat. It never seemed to catch on. I haven't seen it worn for many years.

Unfortunately, perhaps, white ties with black shirts tend to go with dark glasses and a criminal record.

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Clergy, dressed as such, and carrying violin cases: "Christianity! Have we got a deal for youse!"

 

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Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Manipled Mutineer:

quote:

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Originally posted by Enoch:
Fifty or so years ago, there was a fashion among progressive clergy to wear white ties. It was presented as a modernisation of the mid-nineteenth century white cravate, then worn wrapped round a a high collar and with a high black waistcoat. It never seemed to catch on. I haven't seen it worn for many years.

Unfortunately, perhaps, white ties with black shirts tend to go with dark glasses and a criminal record.

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I understand Alec Vidler favoured the look as, rather less positively, did Pierre Laval.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Charles Read:
I have clerical shirts of many colours but only one is patterned - narrow blue and white stripes. I even have one that is canary yellow - but the collar is too tight now. Must get it altered because that shirt is so offensive to wear it gave me great pleasure in winding up other clergy.

Today I am wearing dark-ish green. I only wear clericals when I am doing somethuing religious, as I have been today in deepest rural Norfolk (church in a field, no electricity...)

When I am lecturing, I wear collar and tie.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sebby:

quote:

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Originally posted by Charles Read:
I have clerical shirts of many colours but only one is patterned - narrow blue and white stripes. I even have one that is canary yellow - but the collar is too tight now. Must get it altered because that shirt is so offensive to wear it gave me great pleasure in winding up other clergy.

Today I am wearing dark-ish green. I only wear clericals when I am doing somethuing religious, as I have been today in deepest rural Norfolk (church in a field, no electricity...)

When I am lecturing, I wear collar and tie.

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I don't quite understand this. Do you lecture in theology? If so, why would you wish to ape secular culture, or even especially as a cleric, wear a tie at all and dress like a banker?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hart:
full collar = tie; tab = shirt, no tie (in terms of lay formality).

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quote:

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Originally posted by womanspeak:
About ten years ago I remember a few younger clerics who cut out a tab from the plastic margarine tub with the brand PRAISE front and centre to insert in their collar. Most suitable until the Bishop catches you wearing one.

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quote:

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Originally posted by KevinL:

quote:

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Originally posted by Hart:
full collar = tie; tab = shirt, no tie (in terms of lay formality).

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If you will all pardon the jump back to an earlier post, where does a tonsure collar fit in the hierarchy of formality?

cheers in advance.


edited to do the cool "originally posted by Hart" bit.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Zacchaeus:

quote:

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Originally posted by womanspeak:
About ten years ago I remember a few younger clerics who cut out a tab from the plastic margarine tub with the brand PRAISE front and centre to insert in their collar. Most suitable until the Bishop catches you wearing one.

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In the UK what used to be used was the white plastic washing up liquid bottle, fairy liquid.

There was a scene in the 'Vicar of dibley' (I think)a UK comedy show, where the word 'fairy' was left showing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sebby:

quote:

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Originally posted by Charles Read:
I have clerical shirts of many colours but only one is patterned - narrow blue and white stripes. I even have one that is canary yellow - but the collar is too tight now. Must get it altered because that shirt is so offensive to wear it gave me great pleasure in winding up other clergy.

Today I am wearing dark-ish green. I only wear clericals when I am doing somethuing religious, as I have been today in deepest rural Norfolk (church in a field, no electricity...)

When I am lecturing, I wear collar and tie.

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I don't quite understand this. Do you lecture in theology?...

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