quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

So they can't be traditional evangelical, with a stress on the atonement, can they?

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I know little to nothing about them, but that wouldn't be my first guess based on the limited data here. My first guess would be that they view the calender as a resource to be mined when helpful for connecting with broader culture, rather than as a norm to be observed throughout the Church. My second would be that maybe they are having a GF service, but it's not a seeker service, so it's not on the advert.
 

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Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on :
 
I have heard Evos say the don't keep Xmas, Lent or Good Friday because "they're not in the Bible" (of course my heart is going "WTF?" while I nod and smile and prepare to excuse myself.

But of course many of them keep Sportsman Sunday and things like that.

So not keeping Good Friday is a tradition followed by many churches around where I am.
 

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Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
Two possibilities come to mind (apart from mere neglect of Good Friday): one is that they don't have the use of a building on Good Friday, the other is that the leaders are unavailable for some reason. A similar flavour fellowship round here doesn't have a Christmas morning service, but encourages members to join other churches that do for that occasion.
 

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Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :
 
No one's yet mentioned the horror of Easter Egg hunt on Holy Saturday?
 

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Posted by malik3000 (# 11437) on :
 
For lots of evangelically-inclined Protestant churches, at least in the U.S., the calendar just isn't their thing. Of course, that doesn't mean they don't care about the Atonement -- they just don't feel the need to make a special day for it. "It is what it is" as Honey Boo Boo's mama would say.

A friend of mine in Augusta GA worships every Sunday at an Episcopal Church, because Sunday wouldn't be Sunday without taking part in the Eucharist (and he also does appreciate the church year), but also later in the day at a Baptist church where he sings in the choir because he loves being able to sing gospel music, and also he likes the preacher. He'd been away from the Baptist church for a couple of weeks prior to last Easter, and when he went Easter sunday and wondered about the lack of resurrection-themed music, the choir director said, "Oh, I forgot that today's Easter!"

[ 22. March 2013, 20:52: Message edited by: malik3000 ]
 

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Posted by Twangist (# 16208) on :
 
As well as the building issue (very familiar with that one) might they be involved with an ecumenical walk of witness or such like on GF (and as such not advertise it as thier own event)?
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Sometimes these sort of churches tell their members to join in events of other churches, eg. Anglican, on those days. We even used to get people from Vineyard, and other similar house churches, on Christmas Day coming to our organised services, as there was nothing scheduled for any day except Sunday at their own shacks.
 

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Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 
None of the Vineyard churches I've known have had their own buildings, so that could well be a reason, if they have use of a building on Sundays only.
 

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Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 
Actually reading the OP again, what really surprises me is that they are having a Maundy Thursday service.

All the independent evo churches I've known have done Good Friday stuff (if not their own, then joining with other churches), but I don't think any of them would have recongised Maundy Thursday if it jumped out at them from behind a door.
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
This doesn't seem at all weird to me. My parents' Baptist church and the United Church of Christ congregation I work for have Maundy Thursday services but no Good Friday services.
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Also ...

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:
So they can't be traditional evangelical, with a stress on the atonement, can they?

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Sure they can. They just don't think it has anything to do with whether you follow the church calendar or not.
 

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Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
So if they don't keep Good Friday as such, why the Maundy Thursday services, then?

[ 22. March 2013, 22:49: Message edited by: Albertus ]
 

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Posted by PaulBC (# 13712) on :
 
Most ecclesiastical season seem to be disegarded in Evangelical/fundieland here in North America. The preaching will be on what ever the clergy person has on his/her mind .
Tis 1 of the reasons I finally returned to the Anglican fold.
 

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Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:
No one's yet mentioned the horror of Easter Egg hunt on Holy Saturday?

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I can go one better. We got a flyer from the local Lutheran shack advertising an Easter Egg hunt on "Easter Saturday," with the date of Holy Saturday.

(And yes, the date is correct...)
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 
I'd imagine most Vineyard churches have quite a large proportion of families in their congregation like my NF church (we have around 80 children, about a 20 per cent of the congregation). As suggested earlier, they may be advertising their services that are more suitable for guests and families. My own church has a quiet, contemplative Good Friday service (similar to our Christmas one) with no childcare or Sunday School and I don't expect many of the families to be at the service. I'm guessing they will have similar or suggest attendance elsewhere. I am surprised they have a Maundy Thursday one though.
I don't know much about the Vineyard movement, are their ministers employed or lay? If they are lay then that would also explain fewer services. Not all churches have a building and staff.
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
They hire a school hall and the school would be closed to pupils on Good Friday so that isn't a problem. Also, Good Friday is not a normal working day here.

Their website reveals that they are not keeping Palm Sunday because they are on a skiing holiday.

Maundy Thursday is going to be some sort of teach-in about the death of Jesus.
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
Meant to add that trad. protestantism seemed to put more stress on Good Friday than on Easter.

Samuel Pepys diary recorded 500 communicants at St. Paul's Cathedral on God Friday but only 300 on Easter Sunday.
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
I remember being in Glasgow in the mid-70s. Good Friday was not a public holiday in those days and I struggled to find a Church which was holding a service - it was ignored by most of the Presbys and Evangelicals although the Piskies did have one. John Knox clearly still ruled the church calendar!

[ 23. March 2013, 09:46: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

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Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :
 
All the rc churches in Glasgow in the 1970s ,as indeed nowadays, would have had well attended services on Good Friday. Of course all those churches would have been 'chapels'.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
A phenomenon I've observed from contacts who've spent time across the Pond is that evangelical and charismatic churches in North America (not so much here I don't think) tend to develop their own informal 'calendars' - so there'll be a 'Pastor's day' where everyone stops dissing the leader/s for a short while or some kind of 'Moms'' or 'Dads'' thing beyond Mothering Sunday or Father's Day and so on ... and all manner of other commemorations that aren't based on the liturgical calendar.

Sadly, increasing numbers of evangelical Anglicans in my experience hold very loosely indeed to the calendar, the lectionary and anything beyond their own pet emphases and what the latest thing is from New Wine or whatever ...


 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:
No one's yet mentioned the horror of Easter Egg hunt on Holy Saturday?

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I can go one better. We got a flyer from the local Lutheran shack advertising an Easter Egg hunt on "Easter Saturday," with the date of Holy Saturday.

(And yes, the date is correct...)

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I can top that. It's the custom in my community for ordinations to the priesthood to occur on Easter Saturday. I was talking to a priest who had formerly worked in a diocesan liturgy office about coming to mine next, explained when it would be, and he replied, "Oh, I'm sorry, but I couldn't leave the parish during Triduum."
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
If the Maundy Thursday service at the church leo mentions is in the form of a teach-in about the death of Jesus, one could conclude that a Good Friday service per se would not be necessary.

Ian J.
 

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Posted by malik3000 (# 11437) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:
They hire a school hall and the school would be closed to pupils on Good Friday so that isn't a problem. Also, Good Friday is not a normal working day here.

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:
Meant to add that trad. protestantism seemed to put more stress on Good Friday than on Easter.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:
No one's yet mentioned the horror of Easter Egg hunt on Holy Saturday?

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I can go one better. We got a flyer from the local Lutheran shack advertising an Easter Egg hunt on "Easter Saturday," with the date of Holy Saturday.

(And yes, the date is correct...)

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Most commercial emporia/malls etc, refer to the day between Good Friday and Easter Sunday as Easter Saturday. It's part of the theology of the Easter Bunny rising in chocolate on the third day.
 

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Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
It's also the case that a lot of the big charismatic joints' Easter Sunday services would need a massive technical and logistical effort - so they may need to take "ownership" of the worship-space to set up and do tech rehearsals during Good Friday - oand/r completely reset the space ready for Sunday.

Yep - fold in Walks of Witness...
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
The Area Christians Together organisation hold a walk of witness in our town on Good Friday in the morning. It all ends up with hot cross buns, after which most of them go home. It tends to be just the Anglicans who then hold a 3 hour service in the afternoon from 12-3, starting with readings, then Stations of the Cross, then a sung Last Hour with Holy Communion.

However, if any members of the other denominations choose to stay on, they are very welcome.
 

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Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :
 
There's a Vineyard church a couple of miles from me which does have its own building, and which does have a Good Friday service at 3pm. They are encouraging their congregation to invite guests.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Oh and the Saturday between Good Friday and Easter Day is commonly known as 'The Takeover of the Flower Arrangers' Day.
 

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Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :
 
Or the Dictatorship of the White Lily Brigade.
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Forthview:
All the rc churches in Glasgow in the 1970s ,as indeed nowadays, would have had well attended services on Good Friday. Of course all those churches would have been 'chapels'.

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quote:

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...each of our three sites meets on Good Friday at 10.30am, where we will all have the chance to reflect on what Jesus achieved for us on the Cross. Then we look forward to our seven meetings over the three sites on Easter Sunday - seven opportunities to celebrate the Resurrection! Come ready to worship the Risen Lord Jesus and bring your praise to Him!

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quote:

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A quiet reflective service with no kids groups. Children welcome, however the nature of the service and its content is aimed at an adults congregation.

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quote:

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Palm Sunday:24th March Join us for the final Sunday of Lent as Holy Week begins. 10.30am at Morden Mount

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quote:

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Maundy Thursday:
28th March

Our Maundy Thursday service will be on the evening of Thursday 28th March. Do come and join us as we reflect on what Lent has revealed.

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Easter Sunday:
(No service)

This year we will not be meeting on Easter Sunday (31st March). But we’ll be back with a bang, blowing whistles, clanging bells the following week on Sunday 7th April. So do join us then to celebrate and look towards all this Easter season might bring.

If you are looking for an Easter service drop as a line and we’ll point you in the direction of some wonderful local churches.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
I don't know much about the Vineyard movement, are their ministers employed or lay? If they are lay then that would also explain fewer services. Not all churches have a building and staff.

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The small-ish Vineyard church I'm a member of has a full-time senior pastor and a few other employees, some full- some part-time. The larger Vineyard churches are comparable to large charismatic Anglican churches, I'd say, so I expect they could organise several services over the Easter period if they wanted to.

Our church, like (I think) most other Vineyard churches, places a strong emphasis on home groups so a lot of our church activity is informal, rather than through services and other activities organised by the church staff.

And I think Gamaliel is right regarding the non-calendrical (have I just invented a new word?!) nature of many Vineyard and similar churches. Certainly my church pays very little heed to the Anglican or any other liturgical calendar, although I demur at his suggestion that the alternative to this is following 'their own pet emphases and what the latest thing is from New Wine or whatever'
 

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Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
I had a friend who is a Pentecostal pastor and he told me that don't celebrate Pentecost/Whitsunday because every Sunday is Pentecost!

It's only in the last generation with the rise of the ecumenical movement that the liturgical calendar has started to make an impact on the free churches.

In The Salvation Army we don't necessarily 'do' Lent.
 

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Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
That's 'cos you're abstaining from everything already
 

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Posted by Percy B (# 17238) on :
 
In some places Good Friday liturgy is in evening when people are free.

I don't know about vineyard I thought it was a movement not a church. I heard of an Anglican Church being a vineyard church but maybe got that wrong.

Good Friday isn't a good day because of its message for families coming to church. That may be a part of it.

In fact come to think of it much of Holy Week is not good for families with little ones - worship quite complex and at bedtime times...
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mudfrog:
It's only in the last generation with the rise of the ecumenical movement that the liturgical calendar has started to make an impact on the free churches.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Percy B:
I don't know about vineyard I thought it was a movement not a church. I heard of an Anglican Church being a vineyard church but maybe got that wrong.

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quote:

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Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:

quote:

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Originally posted by Percy B:
I don't know about vineyard I thought it was a movement not a church. I heard of an Anglican Church being a vineyard church but maybe got that wrong.

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We call ourselves the Vineyard Church 'movement' or 'association of churches', but in essence it's a denomination like Anglican, Southern Baptist, Assemblies of God etc. etc.

Mind you, I don't personally think of myself as a 'Vineyarder', like others describe themselves as a Methodist, Roman Catholic or whatever. If I relocated or if my church closed, I think I'd look for another Vineyard church first but it wouldn't massively bother me if there wasn't one nearby (I can easily imagine myself in a charismatic Baptist church, for example). Not sure how many of my fellow 'Vineyarders' would feel the same way though...

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I think many of us in NFI churches would be similar in our thinking, I certainly consider myself non-denominational and have attended Baptist and Anglican churches prior to my current church.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
I'd suggest, South Coast Kevin that many Vineyard folk would feel comfortable in a charismatic Baptist setting and vice-versa.

There does seem to be an awareness of Calendrical issues (can I keep coining the phrase you've coined? ) among charismatic Baptists, though ... I've known some who've used the Lectionary for instance - although whether they've kept this up, I don't know.

I was being snarky with my comment about the 'latest New Wine thing' but I would tend to regard Vineyard, most charismatic Baptist and many charismatic Anglican churches as being part of the same continuum.

On the whole, these days I think most Vineyard people are less 'full-on' charismatic than they used to be even 15 or 20 years ago ... they are at the milder end of the charismatic spectrum. I expect some to morph into a modern-day form of Quaker quietism at some point soon-ish.

Which wouldn't be a bad thing ...
 

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Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
Leo if i'm following this right, the church in question is having n evening to pause and ponder the journey that Jesus took to the cross. they will be experiencing the Stations of the Cross, the Lord's Supper and a time of worship and prayer.
Which sounds fairly OK to me.

Bishops Finger has it i think....for who knows why this particular Vineyard are not having a Good Friday service? Maybe someone else has the building booked? Maybe having had a communal Maundy Thursday service, Good Friday is going to be a time to reflect and consider before coming together again to celebrate on Easter Sunday.


(Easter Egg Hunt?....well... i'm sure their children will get loads of fresh air and sleep well)



[ 27. March 2013, 17:29: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I expect some to morph into a modern-day form of Quaker quietism at some point soon-ish.

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Silent "tongues", eh? The mind boggles!

More to the point: we are a mainline Baptist/URC church and we're not having a Good Friday service. Haven't had one for some years.

Why? Two reasons: very poor attendance in recent years, coupled with active participation in an Ecumenical Walk of Witness which starts at our church ands finishes with a collective act of worship in the open air.

We do have a shared Maundy Thursday communion service with the Methodists.

[ 27. March 2013, 18:01: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

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Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Percy B:
... I don't know about vineyard I thought it was a movement not a church. I heard of an Anglican Church being a vineyard church but maybe got that wrong. ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
Leo if i'm following this right, the church in question is having n evening to pause and ponder the journey that Jesus took to the cross. they will be experiencing the Stations of the Cross, the Lord's Supper and a time of worship and prayer.
Which sounds fairly OK to me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by birdie:
Actually reading the OP again, what really surprises me is that they are having a Maundy Thursday service.

All the independent evo churches I've known have done Good Friday stuff (if not their own, then joining with other churches), but I don't think any of them would have recongised Maundy Thursday if it jumped out at them from behind a door.

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quote:

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Originally posted by geroff:
But it could be that that the advertising is for 'public' services - they might well have a members only do on Good Friday.

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