Ship of Fools: God is gone up!

Thread: God is gone up! Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=025821

Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on 08 May, 2013 15:14 :

I wonder what fellow denizens can tell us about Ascension Day?

Some will undoubtedly debate the propriety of keeping the Feast on Thursday and/or Sunday.

We're hosting the Team Parish Mass of the Day in the evening, and letting off rockets! [Snigger]

What are you doing?

Posted by Thurible (# 3206) on 08 May, 2013 15:28 :

With a triumphant shout!

There'll be a damp squib of a Low Mass on Thursday and there'll be a banner in the entrance procession but that'll be it, I'd've thought.

Thurible

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on 08 May, 2013 15:59 :

Unfortunately in our local church there will be no Divine Liturgy at all as the priest has a number of churches he attends to, so he will be serving the liturgy in another church. Yes, it would be strange to me to celebrate Ascension day on the Sunday, seven days before Pentecost rather than ten. Fortunately over here Ascension day is a national holiday.

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on 08 May, 2013 16:59 :

We're celebrating our Feast of Title, with our bishop celebrating, preaching, confirming, and receiving. Music list is here.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on 08 May, 2013 17:03 :

We're a small rural parish so:

sadly, no procession
choir is likely to outnumber congregation (I rule with an iron fist!)
God is gone up by Croft
movements from l'Ascension before and after (2 & 4)
glass of champagne at Rectory after service

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on 08 May, 2013 17:27 :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
We're a small rural parish so:... glass of champagne at Rectory after service.

I hope it's a big glass, and you provide sufficient straws for everyone to imbibe.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on 08 May, 2013 17:37 :

Ascension Day isn't celebrated out here in the wilds of Presbyterianism, alas.

Posted by Comper's Child (# 10580) on 08 May, 2013 18:04 :

Solemn High with Procession and yes, though we're a bit reformed, the Extinguishing of the Paschal Candle. [Big Grin]

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on 08 May, 2013 18:06 :

We (meaning I) will be aiming to celebrate communion in the evening in the largest of the four Union churches. With a bit of luck someone will join me. That's been my experience of Ascension Day in recent years.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on 08 May, 2013 18:15 :

Our weekly Evensong is always on Thursday, and we have developed a tradition of an evensong with Eucharist on Ascension. Brewer evening service, Standford Coelos Ascendit Hodie, Finsi God is Gone Up, and Gibbons O Clap Your Hands.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on 08 May, 2013 18:20 :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
We're a small rural parish so:... glass of champagne at Rectory after service.
I hope it's a big glass, and you provide sufficient straws for everyone to imbibe.

They're Anglicans. Shared goblet. No wee cuppies.

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on 08 May, 2013 18:32 :

There's an annual ecumenical ascension service at the nearby castle hill at 7.30am (very early for this lark) from which you can see the whole city.
Every year I swear I'll go, every year I forget. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on 08 May, 2013 19:11 :

The Diocese here did screw up by scheduling a mandatory clergy conference over Ascension day. One of our assisting priests had to get special permission from the Bishop's office to cut out early to be on hand for our Eucharist. They have promised to avoid scheduling diocesan meetings on Principal Feasts in the future. I'd add the head shaking emoticon, but with Western Easter being so early this year, I can see how the schedule might get messed up.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on 08 May, 2013 19:36 :

Some of The Usual Suspects will be keeping Ascension Day at Walsingham, as our annual parish pilgrimage thereto is taking place this week, but there should be enough of us to have a Low Mass tomorrow evening, with hymns and possibly incense.....

......we have invited every other parish in the Deanery to come and join us if they have no service of their own, so one or two brave souls may turn up.

Ian J.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on 08 May, 2013 19:38 :

Choral Eucharist 8pm followed by wine and nibbles.

Posted by Felafool (# 270) on 08 May, 2013 20:48 :

Our diocesan offices are shut, so I get a day off! [Smile]

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on 08 May, 2013 20:57 :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
We (meaning I) will be aiming to celebrate communion in the evening in the largest of the four Union churches. With a bit of luck someone will join me. That's been my experience of Ascension Day in recent years.

Might this be your people's way of telling you that they'd rather you transferred to Sunday? I get why people like the 10-day period from Ascension to Pentecost, but liturgy isn't about precise historical mimesis of timing (if it was, every mass would have to be in the evening).

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on 08 May, 2013 21:31 :

Agreed, Hart. But if all our celebrations were tailored to fit the convenience of the secular calendar we would miss a great deal. The church is supposed to be counter-cultural.

The UK is on of the few (the only?) European countries not to have a public holiday on Ascension Day. Even secular France does.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on 08 May, 2013 22:04 :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Choral Eucharist 8pm followed by wine and nibbles.

Same here, except ours starts at 7.30pm.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on 08 May, 2013 22:38 :

Our local Cathedral has The Liturgy of Ascension Day at 8pm. From past experience, this probably means the Common Worship provision, complete with Last Gospel, but the music list doesn't seem to be available AFAICS.

I would guess most Cathedrals will have some sort of Sung Eucharist, and there may be a case for local churches with a low (or nil) attendance on this particular day to go and swell the Cathedral congregations!

Ian J.

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on 08 May, 2013 22:43 :

I have my choice of Church of the Advent, Beacon Hill and All Saints, Ashmont. Goooood tiiiiiiimes.

Posted by Vulpior (# 12744) on 09 May, 2013 00:22 :

I pulled myself out of bed early to go to the 7.30am said mass at our place before heading to work. There were ten of us.

Full modern language order with all appropriate propers, all readings and psalm, brief reflection and out in 35 minutes. It didn't feel rushed at all. Oh, Creed omitted; I'm sure that's Wrong(TM) for some.

when I was at a C of E primary school in the UK, we didn't have school on Ascension Day. We went to church for a service (at which we always sang the first two verses of Alleluia, Sing to Jesus) thn had the rest of the day off.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on 09 May, 2013 00:45 :

quote:
I posted
.. glass of champagne at Rectory after service.

quote:
posted by Baptist Trainfan
I hope it's a big glass, and you provide sufficient straws for everyone to imbibe.

quote:
posted by Enoch
They're Anglicans. Shared goblet. No wee cuppies.

Wee cuppies? [Confused]

It'll be flute glasses and nibbles - probably salted almonds [Smile]

Posted by PD (# 12436) on 09 May, 2013 02:23 :

Ascension Day is a crapshoot here, so I schedule the usual services and see what happens. So...

9.35am Morning Prayer
10.00am Sung Communion
5.00pm Evening Prayer
5.30pm Holy Communion

Hopefully, the bulk of the folk - i.e. two-thirds of the half of ASA that can be bothered to turn out on Ascension Day - will turn out for the 10.00am. This has been the pattern the last few years, but they like to surprise me.

I would imagine that a lot of parishes will either transfer to Sunday, even though the bishops have not given permission for that in our jurisdiction, or have a quiet Eucharist about 7.30pm.

PD

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on 09 May, 2013 02:54 :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:

The UK is on of the few (the only?) European countries not to have a public holiday on Ascension Day. Even secular France does.

Well, you can't deny a Frenchman the opportunity to faire le pont, can you?

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on 09 May, 2013 10:47 :

quote:
Originally posted by Hart:

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
We (meaning I) will be aiming to celebrate communion in the evening in the largest of the four Union churches. With a bit of luck someone will join me. That's been my experience of Ascension Day in recent years.
Might this be your people's way of telling you that they'd rather you transferred to Sunday? I get why people like the 10-day period from Ascension to Pentecost, but liturgy isn't about precise historical mimesis of timing (if it was, every mass would have to be in the evening).

No. It's these particular churches' way of saying, if it's not on a Sunday morning it's purely optional and therefore not important, and therefore not on the radar. [Big Grin]

Despite the fact I usually sit quite lightly to liturgical fascism - Ascension is 40 days after Easter come what may. I don't move Christmas Day or Good Friday/Holy Week observances for the same reason. I'm all for making the sabbath fit man, but once in a while it's a genuinelly good thing for congregations to be encouraged to see their church worship participation as something outside of an hour's activity on Sunday mornings. Even if only once or twice a year. Not a huge ask, surely.

It's also quite ironic if there is an expectation that anything 'churchy' has to happen on a Sunday, considering a lot of threads discussing making worship available usually throw out the line at some stage that 'worship doesn't have to be on a Sunday, does it?'

Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on 09 May, 2013 17:20 :

I'll have a Mass, though it might be just God and me...

Still, Happy Ascension Day everyone!

Posted by Comper's Child (# 10580) on 09 May, 2013 18:02 :

quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I have my choice of Church of the Advent, Beacon Hill and All Saints, Ashmont. Goooood tiiiiiiimes.

Choices ? Choices ? One Lucky Man.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on 09 May, 2013 18:16 :

I don't transfer feasts to Sundays. Besides which, the Sunday after Ascension has its own propers.

Low Mass at 7, even if it's just me and the server. That's how I roll.

Posted by Carys (# 78) on 09 May, 2013 19:18 :

Secondary school came over from their annual Ascension day Eucharist today, get on for 1000 of them. Handful at our usual lunchtime Eucharist with prayers for healing. About to go over for evening Eucharist. I guess 40 or so.

Carys

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on 09 May, 2013 19:46 :

quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
Solemn High with Procession and yes, though we're a bit reformed, the Extinguishing of the Paschal Candle.

Same here, except that we are quite unreformed. We will also have a light reception afterward.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on 09 May, 2013 21:15 :

Priest, server, thurifer, five other chaps and one 12-year old lad at our 730pm Solemn Low Mass With Hymns And Incense (i.e. an all-male congregation - and Father did remember to say 'Pray, my brothers, that my sacrifice etc.').

About half-a-dozen of the Usual Suspects are at Walsingham, so it was quite a good turn-out......

Ian J.

Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on 09 May, 2013 21:22 :

Twenty five folk all told from across the Team, including eight choir, one organist and five altar party, so only twelve real people. Bell ringers rang a quarter peal beforehand. And no rockets due to dreadfully stormy weather [Waterworks]

. I am minded to launch them on Sunday morning, but it's not the same.

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on 09 May, 2013 22:20 :

Has anyone ever experienced anything "unusual" for this day?

Once at Chester College a service took place on top of one of the blocks.

Chester Cathedral saw two outdoor Masses for this day when I was there, once at the back (therefore up a few stairs) and once in Abbey Square (more in the public sphere, and again, up a few stairs).

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on 09 May, 2013 22:27 :

25 came to a lunchtime BCP with hymns, and 49 to a 7.30 pm Sung Eucharist. I had forgotten how much I love "Hail the Day that sees Him rise."

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on 10 May, 2013 00:57 :

My Lutheran congregaton is celebrating Ascension on Sunday.

I visited an Episcopal place tonight. Including the altar party of three, there were five of us in attendance. No sermon, spoken Rite 2 done right. 19 minutes total. No music, but plenty of merry noise. It was glorious.

Posted by PD (# 12436) on 10 May, 2013 04:12 :

Grand total of 11 individuals at Ascension Day services though the total was actually higher due the twicers and thricers. We ended up with 5 at MP; 10 at Sung HC; and 2 in the evening. To make matters worse, three of the usual suspects are out of action, a couple were out of town, and none of the 'iffies' showed. In short the total attendance was not quite one-third of ASA.

The parish seems to have a fairly well entrenched pattern of Sundays plus Christmas (Eve), Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Maundy Thursday, All Saints, and Ascension, in that order, are the also rans. Reminds me a lot of the Church of Ireland in my youth [brick wall]

PD

[ 10. May 2013, 03:15: Message edited by: PD ]

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on 10 May, 2013 04:15 :

Church of the Advent, Beacon Hill had a goodly crowd of a few dozen. Not bad, considering the stormy weather.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on 10 May, 2013 08:22 :

I attended a midday mass at a church that was having a full choral mass in the evening.

I didn't count but the chapel was full, about 25 people.

Much as I admire hart, he's wrong and Anselmina is right. The Ascension is not an historic event but a profound theological insight. (If it was an event, John's gospel seems to locate it later on Easter Day.)

Celebrating it on the Thursday is not an historic reenactment, but staying in line with two millenia of Christian tradition.

There may be good pastoral reasons for keeping it on Sunday, nonetheless, and I'm not condemning that.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on 10 May, 2013 09:47 :

I attended Choral Eucharist in our local cathedral and the congregation was almost outnumbered by the choir and clergy. Not helped I suppose by being advertised on the website as 17.30 in the Lady Chapel whereas in fact it started at 17.15 at the high altar.

It was a very lack-lustre affair with a gloomy musical setting and only one well-known Ascension hymn. But other peoples' MMV. It was good to be there nevertheless.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on 10 May, 2013 11:50 :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Father did remember to say 'Pray, my brothers, that my sacrifice etc.').

Well, if one is going to use gender-nonspecific language, one ought to use it regardless of the gender of those present.

'Brethren' was fine over the years to signify 'men and women.' Certainly 'sisters and brothers' or 'brothers and sisters' is apposite when it appears only males are present. Except perhaps in a monastic setting.

What is this recent obsession with Finzi?!

[ 10. May 2013, 10:53: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on 10 May, 2013 12:20 :

Well I managed to get out of bed for the outdoor early morning service in a ruined castle. There were 20-25 people and 1 dog, and the singing was accompanied by birdsong. An unusual and rewarding experience.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on 10 May, 2013 13:17 :

Why in a ruined castle?

Oh - and the obsession with Finzi is coz he is A Great Composer.......

Ian J.

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on 10 May, 2013 13:25 :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Father did remember to say 'Pray, my brothers, that my sacrifice etc.').
Well, if one is going to use gender-nonspecific language, one ought to use it regardless of the gender of those present.

That doesn't make any sense to me. I try to say what I mean and mean what I say, which means that if I'm referring to men and women I'll either use both genders or a neutral term, but if it's just men I'm talking about or just women, I'll just use one.

At the seminary, we often have an all-made crowd for Mass, so "Pray, brothers," if there are women "pray, my brothers and sisters." What I'm always impressed by is when the presider notices a sole woman and says "pray, my brothers and sister."

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on 10 May, 2013 15:33 :

Something mildly interesting I noticed yesterday. We had two readings. The first was the first chapter or so of Acts. The second was the last chapter or so of Luke. So if you hold on to the tradition that Acts is a continuation of Luke, it was a bit like watching the Battle of Hoth scene from Empire, followed by the destruction of the Death Star scene from New Hope. (I told you it was only mildly interesting.)

We had pretty good turn out, but Thursday is our regular evensong evening, so it was mostly the Evensong regulars- I don't know how many people made a special appearance. The music went well, although I did get a slight look from the person next to me when I whispered a "two" too loudly while counting off notes on the Gibbons- even one of the best singers in our choir admitted that he has to count under his breath to keep his place in that one. There's so much going on, I doubt anyone in the congregation notices.

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on 10 May, 2013 15:36 :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Something mildly interesting I noticed yesterday. We had two readings. The first was the first chapter or so of Acts. The second was the last chapter or so of Luke. So if you hold on to the tradition that Acts is a continuation of Luke, it was a bit like watching the Battle of Hoth scene from Empire, followed by the destruction of the Death Star scene from New Hope. (I told you it was only mildly interesting.)

We had pretty good turn out, but Thursday is our regular evensong evening, so it was mostly the Evensong regulars- I don't know how many people made a special appearance. The music went well, although I did get a slight look from the person next to me when I whispered a "two" too loudly while counting off notes on the Gibbons- even one of the best singers in our choir admitted that he has to count under his breath to keep his place in that one. There's so much going on, I doubt anyone in the congregation notices.

Our first reading was the ascension of Elijah, but the preacher pointed out that Luke reports the ascension of Jesus twice- just like seeing the last scene of the first movie in a sequel.

Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on 10 May, 2013 16:24 :

As much as I hate to admit it, I think it may be time for TEC to consider moving Ascension to the Sunday following, as the Romans and Lutherans do.

In Vanuatu, Ascension Day is a public holiday and every church is full, even the Presbyterian and Pentecostal, but in the US, one life-long Episcopalian told me she was asked by a convert of several years:

Convert of ten years: "What is this Ascension Thursday?"
Life longer: "I have no idea."

We had 8, which in a tiny church in a small town, isn't bad.

Our people really do need teaching. Everything is an opportunity.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on 10 May, 2013 17:21 :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
John's gospel seems to locate it later on Easter Day.

So does Luke.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on 10 May, 2013 17:25 :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Choral Eucharist 8pm followed by wine and nibbles.

It was gorgeous:

Coelos ascendit hodie - Stanford
Mass setting: James McMillan
Ascendens Christus in altum -Vioctoria.

Poor turnout though - 57 people.

We had that 'last gospel' thing as well - actually from Acts about how the disciples went home afterwards and awaited the Spirit.

Posted by Carys (# 78) on 10 May, 2013 19:18 :

57 sounds good. We had 44 communicants, not sure of total, 18 girls in choir, but don't know how many are communicants. We ended under west window and heard great commission

Carys

Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on 10 May, 2013 20:29 :

Is there any particular ceremonial for snuffing the Paschal Candle? And, what if Ascension is at least partly celebrated on the Sunday following? Should the Paschal candle just be absent? We'll be using the readings for 7th Sunday of Easter. I imagine some mention will be made of Ascension.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on 10 May, 2013 20:37 :

In the pre-Vatican 2 rite, the paschal candle was put out after the gospel on Ascension Day. There was no provision for moving the feast to the Sunday.

The Vatican 2 provisions stress the unity of the fifty days of Eastertide from Easter to Pentecost inclusive, so the paschal candle remains in a prominent position throughout that time and is lit at major services.

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on 10 May, 2013 22:45 :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Why in a ruined castle?

There's a platform built on top of what would have been the keep which the highest place for miles and a nice staging post for a modest meeting. It's commonly used for plays and performances. A little on-the-nose for Ascension, but still.

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on 10 May, 2013 23:04 :

quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
Is there any particular ceremonial for snuffing the Paschal Candle? And, what if Ascension is at least partly celebrated on the Sunday following? Should the Paschal candle just be absent? We'll be using the readings for 7th Sunday of Easter. I imagine some mention will be made of Ascension.

You need a small child to watch carefully as the Paschal candle is snuffed. As the wisp of smoke arises from the snuffed wick, said child shall proclaim, "There he goes!"

Which apparently happened somewhere.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on 11 May, 2013 13:48 :

I've looked up the C of E Times and Seasons suggestion for Ascension Day. There is no mention of putting out the paschal candle (nor does the C of E allow moving the feast to Easter 7 as far as I remember).

It does have two special features: one which leo mentioned was including a reading from Acts in the dismissal. I can see the sense of that.

The other is including in the opening section the Acts reading describing the Ascension itself. I have experienced this. Has anyone else?

I don't see the point of it at all, myself.

Posted by Comper's Child (# 10580) on 11 May, 2013 19:38 :

Some others keep the candle lighted until Pentecost.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on 11 May, 2013 19:48 :

Not just 'some', CC. The majority of the western church.

Posted by Alogon (# 5513) on 11 May, 2013 22:04 :

quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
Some others keep the candle lighted until Pentecost.

Unfortunate, I think-- and if the intent is to magnify Pentecost, counterproductive. As is "celebrating" Ascension Day only on Sunday. These liturgists' sense of psychology and drama seems to have deserted them. Our beloved Lord and Savior has disappeared. What's to celebrate?

What we miss then is the significance of Ascensiontide as a time of preparation for the third very important feast of the church. We prepare for Christmas with Advent, and for Easter with Lent. During Ascensiontide we use white, yet it's not all trumpets and triumphalism. On the Sunday (and the other days) in Ascensiontide, isn't it liturgically and pastorally sound to share the ambivalence (to say the least) of the disciples, in an atmosphere of wistfulness and wondering what will happen next?

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on 11 May, 2013 22:31 :

Liturgy and calendricality is a little relaxed here. On the other hand I had the privilege of assisting (as archdeacon) in one of the Indigenous Church's baptisms, 250 kms away.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on 12 May, 2013 01:19 :

quote:
Originally posted by Hart:

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Father did remember to say 'Pray, my brothers, that my sacrifice etc.').
Well, if one is going to use gender-nonspecific language, one ought to use it regardless of the gender of those present.

'Brethren' was fine over the years to signify 'men and women.' Certainly 'sisters and brothers' or 'brothers and sisters' is apposite when it appears only males are present. Except perhaps in a monastic setting.
That doesn't make any sense to me. I try to say what I mean and mean what I say, which means that if I'm referring to men and women I'll either use both genders or a neutral term, but if it's just men I'm talking about or just women, I'll just use one.

At the seminary, we often have an all-made crowd for Mass, so "Pray, brothers," if there are women "pray, my brothers and sisters." What I'm always impressed by is when the presider notices a sole woman and says "pray, my brothers and sister."

Hart, the whole point of gender neutral language is to be—well—neutral about gender in our language.

We used to do this by saying the words "men", "he", and "brethren" to signify "humans", "he or she," and "brothers and sisters." Frankly I preferred the old style to these awkward innovating circumlocutions, but that's not the world we now live in.

So, to be gender neutral in our language is to take no grammatical notice of gender, unless it matters to the sense of what we say.

When the presider turns to face the people and bids them with the words, "Pray brothers and sisters...," the assortment of genders in the assembly does not matter to what he means. Whether none, one, half, or, indeed, all of the assembly are women matters not one whit.

What he means is: "Pray all ya'll," "Pray you lot," or—to use an Afanasievian turn of phrase—"Pray fellow concelebrants that this my sacrifice and yours may be acceptable to God the Father Almighty."

When the celebrant at Bishop's Fingers place notices that the assembly is all male or when the celebrant with whose sharp eye you are so impressed is paying attention to the gender of those in the assembly he is not fully focused on the impending Awesome Mysteries, but is acting like a 19th century man who has noticed...a woman!

I've taken as my example the Orate Fratres, but it could be equally the priest's Confiteor in the prayers at the foot of the altar, or any other place where one's mind ought to be on God and not on the random dangly bits.

As awkward as the modern grammatical accommodation is, it remains a matter of grammar and not of meaning.

[ 12. May 2013, 00:20: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]

Posted by tomb (# 174) on 12 May, 2013 03:04 :

Back in the day, when I was playing the organ on a regular basis, I used to improvise a voluntary on "Up, Up, and Away!" for the Ascension.

I confess to some theological perturbations about where Jesus went after he disappeared into the clouds. Another dimension?

These days, I'd probably improvise something on "Rocket Man" instead.

Posted by basso (# 4228) on 12 May, 2013 05:13 :

quote:
Originally posted by tomb:

I confess to some theological perturbations about where Jesus went after he disappeared into the clouds. Another dimension?

I made an argument (probably at too-great length) in a bible study one year that drew heavily on the scene in Stranger in a Strange Land where they arrange a couple of cameras at right angles to each other as Mike makes something vanish. It appears to recede from each camera.
I'd read Flatland by the time I read the scene so I was pretty excited that I knew exactly what was going on.

The argument didn't impress my fellow parishioners at all. I don't think they were as entranced by dimensional speculation as I am.

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on 12 May, 2013 14:09 :

quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
We're celebrating our Feast of Title, with our bishop celebrating, preaching, confirming, and receiving. Music list is here.

And rather comprehensive photo gallery is here.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on 12 May, 2013 14:13 :

The most ancient sacramentaries that survive envision the Easter season as extending through Whitsuntide. That is why the extra alleluias, Vidi Aquam, Easter communion obligation, Regina Caeli, etc. have always gone through Pentecost. The presence of the Vigil of Pentecost--a lengthy rite that followed essentially the same program as the Easter Vigil, with the blessing of the font, baptism, etc.--aligns it as part of the Easter cycle. (The Holy Week reforms of the 1950s removed most of that Vigil's special ceremony.)

During the Middle Ages Ascension grew into greater prominence, and with it the snuffing of the paschal candle after the gospel. That is a powerful symbol to give up, I must admit. Ascension began to be seen as its own liturgical season, however brief. This framework is the one with which what many here grew up, myself included.

The reforms of the 1960s and 1970s sought to simplify the kalendar, inter alia, and re-established the Easter-Pentecost connection. An unfortunate side-effect of this is a downplaying of Ascension in some places. But Eastertide has three distinct phases: 1) the octave, which displaces all other feasts, major and minor, 2) the main body of the season, and 3) Ascensiontide, during which the novena in preparation for Pentecost is prayed.

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on 13 May, 2013 04:01 :

OK, TLA, I'm now going to have to disagree on two points.

Firstly, linguistic: who's in and who's left out of our vocatives carries pragmatic weight; it defines who the speaker takes as their audience. Secondly, I think attentiveness to the assembly one is leading in prayer in all their particularity (gender included) is an important part of presiding, indeed of reverence: to ignore the body of Christ present in the gathered assembly in the name of concentrating properly on some other manner of Christ's presence is blinkered.

Posted by Comper's Child (# 10580) on 13 May, 2013 18:07 :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Not just 'some', CC. The majority of the western church.

I was being ironic...

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on 13 May, 2013 22:11 :

quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
And rather comprehensive photo gallery is here.[/URL]

The bishop appears to have changed clothing twice in the course of the service. Why didn't he wear a chasuble throughout?

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on 13 May, 2013 22:42 :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:

quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
And rather comprehensive photo gallery is here.[/URL]
The bishop appears to have changed clothing twice in the course of the service. Why didn't he wear a chasuble throughout?

Good question. Our parish use has the celebrant wear the following:

Entrance through Gospel Proclamation: Cope
Sermon, if preaching: Cope off (so amice, alb, cincture, stole) - Cope stays on during sermon if someone else preaches
Offertory through Ablutions: Chasuble
Postcommunion Prayer to the End: Cope

Bishops tend to find it easiest to go with our parish use, as that's what everyone else in the sanctuary crowd will be doing. Any exceptions the bishop has to any of this would be honored, of course. The bishop kept his cope on to preach. A very Anglo-Catholic visiting bishop (+Keith Quincy at the time) kept cope, mitre, gloves, ring over glove, slippers, and crozier throughout sermon.

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on 14 May, 2013 00:43 :

quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
A very Anglo-Catholic visiting bishop (+Keith Quincy at the time) kept cope, mitre, gloves, ring over glove, slippers, and crozier throughout sermon.

This is even more delightful when one knows what a normal, down-to-earth guy that +Keith was. [Smile]

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on 14 May, 2013 22:57 :

quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:

quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
Some others keep the candle lighted until Pentecost.
Unfortunate, I think-- and if the intent is to magnify Pentecost, counterproductive. As is "celebrating" Ascension Day only on Sunday. These liturgists' sense of psychology and drama seems to have deserted them. Our beloved Lord and Savior has disappeared. What's to celebrate?

What we miss then is the significance of Ascensiontide as a time of preparation for the third very important feast of the church. We prepare for Christmas with Advent, and for Easter with Lent. During Ascensiontide we use white, yet it's not all trumpets and triumphalism. On the Sunday (and the other days) in Ascensiontide, isn't it liturgically and pastorally sound to share the ambivalence (to say the least) of the disciples, in an atmosphere of wistfulness and wondering what will happen next?

Even more so with Holy Saturday, one of the most meaningful days of the year, and the most ignored.

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on 14 May, 2013 23:02 :

I've been around Eccles enough to know that I can safely say here that it really grinds my gears when, at a church celebrating the Seventh Sunday of Easter, the Ascension preface is not used. I have been known to change the page in the altar book before the liturgy and to put ample post-its indicating the Ascension preface. (I'll even admit to paperclipping the Easter page shut.) Even if we're skipping Ascension altogether, which unfortunately happens all too often in my circles, a little vestige of it is not too much to ask.

Posted by PD (# 12436) on 15 May, 2013 06:34 :

olaf,

That would frustrate the Banana [pudding out of me too! However, it may gladden your heart to know that I usually regard the Sunday after Ascension as my opportunity to redeem myself for messing up the Proper Preface on Ascension Day itself! It and one other major feast (Christmas, methinks) have a slight variant in the chant that throws me every time. It also has the net benefit that I tend to rehearse the Whitsunday PP like crazy. That for Trinity Sunday is not a problem as I sing it about 27 times every year!

Cheers,
PD

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0