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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Corpus Christi
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Devils Advocate
Shipmate
# 16484
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Posted
The Feast of Corpus Christi is nearly upon us (30th May this year) As is usual in our parish the feast will be transferred to the next Sunday (2nd June)
This year we are in interregnum and are without a Parish Priest and are having to rely on an exceptionally obliging NSM I am trying to sort out how we will celebrate the feast.
Father is quite willing to officiate and carry the Blessed Sacrament in procession round the Churchyard but there seems to be some problem with some of our congregation as to wether we do it after the Parish Mass or leave it till the evening when we would normally have our now Monthly Evensong and Benediction.
I have come up with 2 alternatives:
(1) Parish Mass finishing with the "O Salutaris" and then the procession of the Blessed Sacrament returning to the High Altar and then leaving the B.S. exposed in the monstrance on the altar till the evening and having Evensong with the BS exposed and then concluding with Benediction as usual ( missing out "O Salutaris")
or
(2) Parish Mass as usual with no blessing but going straight into the procession as above and finishing with the Tantum Ergo and Benediction.
Advice please
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"Oh I have wrought much evil with my spells"
Posts: 97 | From: Lincs | Registered: Jun 2011
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
What we do at our place is basically your second option but I really like your first one!
Wish we had a church yard for procession
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You can't retire from a calling.
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
What we do at our place is basically your second option but I really like your first one!
Wish we had a church yard for procession
Ditto
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
Tough decision. On the one hand, sometimes one can slip practices like this into the parish customary during an interregnum. On the other hand, it's tough teaching and coaching a Sunday supply person to do something out of the ordinary.
As is my normal practice, I'd defer to time issues. If you can do it without making the morning service take too much longer, than do it. Perhaps you can cut something shorter earlier to facilitate it--a sermon, eliminate a long anthem, whatever.
If this is a new practice and prolongs the service greatly, you'll hear cries to move it to Evensong.
Be efficient, like a well-oiled machine, in whatever you do.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Percy B
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# 17238
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Posted
It's fantastic that Pope Francis is encouraging exposition around the world on June 2nd. I think a lovely ecumenical gesture would be for non RCs to pray at same time or pray at the set time in their local RC church.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
So if I understand it aright, the difference between the alternatives is whether the O Salutaris is sung before or after the procession? Or between doing either versus deferring it to Evensong?
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Devils Advocate
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# 16484
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Posted
Not really no Its more a case of if we have the complete rite of Benediction after Mass or just the first half of it. You can't expose the BS without singing O Salutaris The options are:
O Salutaris, Procession then leave the BS exposed till the evening then have Evensong followed by Tantum ergo benediction and finish
or Mass O Salutaris Procession Tantum ergo Benediction and finish. In the latter case Evensong will just be that with no Benediction.
( Or as I'm considering cancel evensong as the numbers in the congregation for it are poor)
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"Oh I have wrought much evil with my spells"
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by Devil's Advocate:
The options are:
O Salutaris, Procession then leave the BS exposed till the evening then have Evensong followed by Tantum ergo benediction and finish
or Mass O Salutaris Procession Tantum ergo Benediction and finish. In the latter case Evensong will just be that with no Benediction.
( Or as I'm considering cancel evensong as the numbers in the congregation for it are poor)
If the congregation for evensong is likely to be so low, does this mean that the MBS would be exposed in an empty church between the two services, or would there be a skeleton adoration party, as it were? If the former, then I think it's due to the dignity of the Sacrament to have Benediction after Mass and then put it away.
If not, then I suppose the question is of whether you want to give benediction to the most people (i.e. at Mass) or view the thing as a benediction of the whole orbis terra &c &c, and keep it in its usual place after evensong.
In a sense I almost envy you: it's hard enough convincing father to go outside for procession, even without the MBS in the world's heaviest gothic monstrance...
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
On the face of it, I would prefer option (2).
If option (1) is taken up, then the adoration squad between morning Mass and Evensong, needs to be adequate to cover non-stop - that is if the church remains open. If on the other hand, the church is locked up during this time, then no-one is to know if the MBS is reposed immediately after closure and replaced in the monstrance immediately before unlocking the church for evensong etc..
[ 18. May 2013, 12:24: Message edited by: Ecclesiastical Flip-flop ]
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
then no-one is to know if the MBS is reposed immediately after closure and replaced in the monstrance immediately before unlocking the church for evensong etc..
Really?
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
then no-one is to know if the MBS is reposed immediately after closure and replaced in the monstrance immediately before unlocking the church for evensong etc..
Really?
There may be more than one meaning to that.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
Wish we had a church yard for procession
St. Mary the Virgin in New York processes through Times Square on Corpus Christi (celebrated on Sunday). I participated a few years ago. A remarkable experience.
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God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
The UK equivalent of that might be All Saints, Margaret Street, London, processing with the MBS along Oxford Street (on the evening of Corpus Christi Day itself, of course)! Most seemly and edifying (and perhaps mystifying to those peering down on the procession from the upper deck of buses......).
Do they still do it, I wonder? Enquiring minds need to know.....
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
They certainly do. I intend to attend again.
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
Now what about hymns for Corpus Christi?
We often sing
Sweet Sacrament Divine.
Have any modern hymns found a regular place in Corpus C liturgy?
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
Have any modern hymns found a regular place in Corpus C liturgy?
I've fond memories of the procession at St Matthias Bellwoods with "One bread, one body"!
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
Now what about hymns for Corpus Christi?
We often sing
Sweet Sacrament Divine.
Have any modern hymns found a regular place in Corpus C liturgy?
At the Lamb's High Feast we Sing, fo' sho'.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
Now what about hymns for Corpus Christi?
Whatever else is sung, the Lauda Sion and Pange Lingua, choc full of Thomist goodies as they are, are surely irreplaceable.
Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence is invaluable for ensuring the required level of solemnity of any exposition... ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Is this the time for me to suggest "Shine Jesus Shine"?
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![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
I'm having a vision of a monstrance with integral backlight. [lies down until it goes away]
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
Hmmm... not sure about Shine Jesus shine!
But...
are there modern hymns celebrating the Body of Christ?
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Mary, a priest??
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Thurible
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# 3206
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Posted
Shine, Jesus, Shine is for Candlemas not Corpus Christi.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
Now what about hymns for Corpus Christi?
We often sing
Sweet Sacrament Divine.
Have any modern hymns found a regular place in Corpus C liturgy?
Lat year, we had "Hail, True Victim, Life and Light" as the procession hymn, and "Soul Of My Sviour" as the recessional hymn, plus a couple motets. No procession, because all the clergy were away and we had a fill-in.
I don't know if there will be a procession for us this year, I'm thinking probably not, with the current state of things. Apparently, we're having vespers and benediction in the evening.
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http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
An oldie but a goodie
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Not sure how many (extra) years we'll have to spend in Purgatory, but Father says we'll keep Corpus Christi at our usual Wednesday 730pm Mass i.e. on the eve. IOW, we'll have the appropriate readings, and after Communion will duly process the MBS around the Church to Sweet Sacrament Divine, before Benediction.
Given that our usual Wednesday congo is 8-10, and a few at least are away on holiday (it's half-term week in parts of the UK), some of us may well have to multi-task......
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Not sure how many (extra) years we'll have to spend in Purgatory, but Father says we'll keep Corpus Christi at our usual Wednesday 730pm Mass i.e. on the eve.
No purg. required - by 7.30pm you will have had the 1st evensong/vespers of the feast so it WILL BE the feast by then.
[Edit: UBB mayhem]
[ 25. May 2013, 21:54: Message edited by: Zappa ]
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Shine, Jesus, Shine is for Candlemas not Corpus Christi.
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Transfiguration of course.
[As I now realise Leo already said]
You can think of it as a very loose paraphrase of selected verses from Psalm 80 if it makes you feel better ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Actually I must get a friend to translate SJS into Latin - might make it more acceptable to the purists ...
Someone on Twitter tried doing that using Google Translate yesterday; the results were ... interesting.
Carys (who is off to Cambridge for the feast)
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Actually I must get a friend to translate SJS into Latin - might make it more acceptable to the purists ...
Someone on Twitter tried doing that using Google Translate yesterday; the results were ... interesting.
Carys (who is off to Cambridge for the feast)
Ah - so just a simple Gospel service at LSM no doubt.....
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
.Ah - so just a simple Gospel service at LSM no doubt.....
That's the one.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
It seems our (very) High Church vicar is observing the festival tomorrow. Not sure whether to go or not, but there is wine cheese and biccies after the service.( He likes his wine )- not sure about the actual Liturgy but......
As I understand it then
We have a normal Solemn Eucharist, followed by a Procession of the Blessed Sacrament around the church/ the grounds/ trip up the M4 etc to the hymn Laud O Sion?
And this is followed it seems by Solemn Benediction
Am I right?
Just looking up the music list
Ireland in C
Ave verum - Elgar
Tantum ergo - de Severac
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
In some parts of Brazil, villagers make sawdust carpets for the procession to pass over. I'm not sure if I'll be able to see them tomorrow (I've seen them in Central America during Holy Week).
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
In some parts of Brazil, villagers make sawdust carpets for the procession to pass over. I'm not sure if I'll be able to see them tomorrow (I've seen them in Central America during Holy Week).
Similar to the 'instruction' in Fortescue that the procession should pass over a bed of "flowers and green leaves" perhaps.
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
It seems our (very) High Church vicar is observing the festival tomorrow. Not sure whether to go or not, but there is wine cheese and biccies after the service.( He likes his wine )- not sure about the actual Liturgy but......
As I understand it then
We have a normal Solemn Eucharist, followed by a Procession of the Blessed Sacrament around the church/ the grounds/ trip up the M4 etc to the hymn Laud O Sion?
And this is followed it seems by Solemn Benediction
Am I right?
Yes, that's the shape of the liturgy (groan). [liturgical pedantry] Lauda Sion is a sequnce, though, not an hymn, though many places sing it to an unchanging hymn tune, so as to simplify things. [/liturgical pedantry]
You seem surprised that your vicar is keeping it today, but today is the Feast's proper day, it only being transferred to Sunday for convenience (for English RCs this is obligatory). As to whether to go, it *is* an Holyday of Obligation... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:
As to whether to go, it *is* an Holyday of Obligation...
I thought it wasn't, and that's the reason it's transferred to the Sunday. In countries where it is of obligation it is kept on Thursday (like Ascension Day). That's my understanding of the RC rules, which of course may well not be accurate.
If you are talking about whether CC is a 'day of obligation' for Anglicans, well the C of E doesn't use that terminology. I think it is only an (optional) Feast, according to Common Worship. It doesn't exist at all, according to the BCP.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
For Roman Catholics, the feast is a solemnity (called first-class in the EF), and whether or not it is a holy day of obligation varies by country. Like the Epiphany and Ascension, when it is not a holy day of obligation, it is transferred to the following Sunday, as is the case in the USA, Canada, Australia and the UK. In some predominately Catholic countries, it is also public holiday.
In parishes and oratories where the Extraordinary Form is observed, the feast is still celebrated on Thursday, so the procession, etc. may be seen in such places today. However, the "external solemnity" (in practice, one of the Masses that day, and the procession) may be transferred to Sunday. This permission existed pre-Vatican II, as well.
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:
As to whether to go, it *is* an Holyday of Obligation...
I thought it wasn't, and that's the reason it's transferred to the Sunday. In countries where it is of obligation it is kept on Thursday (like Ascension Day). That's my understanding of the RC rules, which of course may well not be accurate.
I was being cheeky in retro-fitting what I assumed was an Anglican situation with RC rules - if the feast is being kept on Thursday, then it is de facto a day of obligation (of course the whole Province transfers to Sunday for RCs, so this parish-by-parish thing is largely (?) Anglican). Even if the feast is transferred, of course, Sundays are days of Obligation, so there's no way out...
And yes, of course the CofE doesn't use that language. That doesn't stop some of us from doing so
Ceremoniar is right to say that the external solemnity is often transferred to the nearest Sunday: even Fortescue presumes that the procession takes place then.
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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Devils Advocate
Shipmate
# 16484
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Posted
As a postscript to my original post we followed the first option ( Mass followed by procession and Benediction) And it all worked well. (Crucifer in Tunicle plus Acolytes 2 Thuribles etc.) The only problem was we ran out of Hymns before we got back into church ( NEH 307 followed by 305) By missing the sermon and intercessions we managed to have a Solemn Mass procession and benediction in about 65/70 Mins which is about the time our usual Sunday Solemn Mass takes including the Sermon and intercessions plus Angelus. It looks like we will follow the same format next year if we are still in interregnum. I am now listening to Sir Arthur Suliivan's "Irish Symphony" sat on the sofa with my feet up drinking a coffee and smoking a well earned cigarette with the rest of the day to myself ( as Evensong is cancelled) :-)
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"Oh I have wrought much evil with my spells"
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Hezekiah
Apprentice
# 17157
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Posted
I was at St Cecilia's Abbey, Ryde, for Corpus Christi on Thursday (I know, Thursday not Sunday, but a) the Abbess has jurisdiction and can basically do as she wishes and b) as a Solesmes house they follow a lot of French practices). They sang the whole sequence of Corpus Christi - four pages of gregorian chant just for that, regardless of the rest of the Mass. Has anyone else ever heard it?
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2 Kings 3:27
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hezekiah:
I was at St Cecilia's Abbey, Ryde, for Corpus Christi on Thursday (I know, Thursday not Sunday, but a) the Abbess has jurisdiction and can basically do as she wishes and b) as a Solesmes house they follow a lot of French practices). They sang the whole sequence of Corpus Christi - four pages of gregorian chant just for that, regardless of the rest of the Mass. Has anyone else ever heard it?
Yes...Lauda Sion, one of my favorite sequences. I love the way the tune soars. We'll have it in English this morning. Our hymnal might not have all the stanzas; not sure. It's still pretty long.
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Hezekiah
Apprentice
# 17157
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Posted
Yes I loved it too, particularly when sung by the combined numbers of the St Cecilia's Benedictines and the Wantage Ordinariate sisters - 40 nuns!
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2 Kings 3:27
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hezekiah:
I was at St Cecilia's Abbey, Ryde, for Corpus Christi on Thursday (I know, Thursday not Sunday, but a) the Abbess has jurisdiction and can basically do as she wishes and
Sound Dame. (I can understand moving feasts to Sunday in parishes, but there's no pastoral reason for enclosed communities.)
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Hezekiah:
I was at St Cecilia's Abbey, Ryde, for Corpus Christi on Thursday (I know, Thursday not Sunday, but a) the Abbess has jurisdiction and can basically do as she wishes and b) as a Solesmes house they follow a lot of French practices). They sang the whole sequence of Corpus Christi - four pages of gregorian chant just for that, regardless of the rest of the Mass. Has anyone else ever heard it?
Yes...Lauda Sion, one of my favorite sequences. I love the way the tune soars. We'll have it in English this morning. Our hymnal might not have all the stanzas; not sure. It's still pretty long.
I sang the entire thing Thursday evening (from the English Gradual). It's about 6 minutes or so, and the range is fairly wide for a hymn--a twelfth, the same as the Star-Spangled Banner. Next year I'll pay for a cantor so there's at least one other person singing...
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
Did anyone take part in the worldwide exposition with the Holy Father? Wonderful idea
Nice report on the Rome Blessed Sacrament procession here
I didn't realise the Blessed Sacrament was transported in monstrance in a vehicle!
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
Did anyone take part in the worldwide exposition with the Holy Father? Wonderful idea
Yes, I did. It was lovely.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Me too. On my own, but only in the most trivial of senses.
[ 03. June 2013, 17:23: Message edited by: Hart ]
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Damn. That spoils all my fun.
