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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Devotion styles that are, er... interesting
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
This week, the Feast of Saint Anthony (of Padua) will be upon us, and it's quite a big thing here in Brazil. St. Anthony is the patron saint for lost keys of course, but also for single people yearning for marriage.
Out of interest, I bought a magazine that seems to be officially endorsed by the Catholic Church, and it gave the following advice (loosely paraphrasing from memory):
"If you want a boyfriend, buy a small statue of St. Anthony, put him upside-down in a cup of water, and say to him: 'I'm only going to let you out of here when I have a boyfriend'."
Since I'm not Catholic, I asked a couple of people around here, and they told me that people really do this thing. Some women also tie him up to a tree and put a flame to his head every day, until their wish of a boyfriend is fulfilled.
Now that's what I call devotion, mob style!
Do you have other examples of 'interesting' forms of devotion?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
I'm sure that this would have simply been reporting on popular traditions of which there are many concerning St Anthony of Padua or St Anthony of Lisbon, as he is also known. You should subscribe to one of the many different language editions of the Messaggero di Sant'Antonio ($23 per annum in South America)
I used to love the blessing of the lilies on St Anthony's day,but that was 50 years ago.
Interesting as these popular devotions may be they will not be found in any Catholic catechism.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
St Joseph gets buried up side down in the garden when some folks wish to sell a house. Apparently some sort of a prayer goes with it.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
St Joseph gets buried up side down in the garden when some folks wish to sell a house. Apparently some sort of a prayer goes with it.
I think it's something along the lines of "If you ever want to see your wife and kid again, you'll help me sell my house. Amen."
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Or maybe it has something to do with him being a carpenter?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
...I bought a magazine that seems to be officially endorsed by the Catholic Church...
How so?
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I don't know, there are a lot of magazines being sold here that have images of padre Marcelo and pieces that seem to have been written by other padres. I found the information about St. Anthony in one of these. I never know for certain in which way these magazines are connected with the Church.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I've heard of the St. Joseph spell, but not the other one.
ISTM that if the saint in question cares enough about their reputation to worry about the disposition of a statue, then they're apt to be at least a little angry. And why would you want to anger someone you want to help you???
It's kind of like spells to control deities, spirits, demons, what have you: you're going to a being that you believe to be much more powerful than you, and trying to force them to do your bidding. Seems unwise.
Why not ask politely, offer a gift in an area that's important to them (like working with Habitat for Humanity, if you're approaching Joseph for a house), amend your behavior, etc.?
When actor Danny Thomas was young, he asked St. Jude to help him with his career, and promised that he'd build a hospital if he were helped. His career got going, and he started St. Jude's hospital. I have no idea if Jude was really involved, but Danny kept his promise.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Out of interest, I bought a magazine that seems to be officially endorsed by the Catholic Church
Unlikely.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Does the RCC still grant nihil obstat and imprimatur publishing approval?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Does the RCC still grant nihil obstat and imprimatur publishing approval?
Yes, it sure does. But each of these has a narrow technical meaning. The nihil obstat is a certification that there is nothing in the certified publication contrary to the Church's teachings on faith and morals. It is not an indication that the opinions in the book are shared by he censor. An imprimatur is a declaration that a book may be published - clerics and members of religious institutes are required to obtain the permission of their superior before publishing work related to faith and morals. Again it is not an endorsement of a work, rather it is a statement of what it is not: i.e. a work containing statements or advancing opinions contrary to the Church's teachings on faith and morals.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
I've a memory of girls putting St Anthony under their pillow in order to find a beau. (To be clear, I don't remember watching them do it, as that would negate the point, rather.)
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Forty years or so ago, there was a comedy series on the BBC called Me Mammy set in the Irish community of North London. In one episode, Mammy, who is a formidable, superstitious and possessive woman who won't let her adult son out of her clutches, angrily shoves the number of plaster statues that fill her house, in the cupboard, 'Since you haven't done what I asked you to, you're all staying here until you do'.
That though was comedy. It was meant even then, to represent the sort of Catholicism that Pope, priests and Prods agree that they don't approve of.
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
In Ireland, it is still common to put a statue of the Holy Infant of Prague on display the night before an event in order to guarantee good weather (this being one reason I don't hold with devotion to the Holy Infant, as his level of success appears rather limited...)
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
Chinese restaurants would typically put a statue of the Chinese God of wealth in order to generate prosperity.
One Chinese restaurant I went to, instead of the God of Wealth, placed a Crucifix.
Now I assume that the owner is Roman Catholic, but I wonder if he piously placed it out simply as religious devotion or did he actually expect the Lord Jesus Christ to shower prosperity in the same way as the Taoist God of Wealth?
Now of course, we can't get in anyone's heads, but it did strike me as interesting to ponder.
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
St Agnes, Virgin and Martyr is supposed to grant visions of the boyfriend if approached correctly:
They told her how, upon St. Agnes’ Eve,
Young virgins might have visions of delight,
And soft adorings from their loves receive
Upon the honey’d middle of the night,
If ceremonies due they did aright;
As, supperless to bed they must retire,
And couch supine their beauties, lily white;
Nor look behind, nor sideways, but require
Of Heaven with upward eyes for all that they desire.
So: You have to be a virgin to do this (see 'Unicorns'). You have to skip supper. You have to lie on your back and stare at the ceiling.
[ 11. June 2013, 12:26: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
I recall from the dim recesses of my past a parish novena to St Anne when more than one devotee was heard to ejaculate - St Anne, St Anne - Bring me a Man.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
I became involved in the St. Joseph Real Estate prayer by accident. Our neighbor was trying to sell his house but had already moved to another state. St. Joseph was buried at the foot of his mailbox, which was next to ours. I was asked -- and agreed -- to recite the written prayer in front of the mailbox until the house was sold.
St. Joseph was from a kit, and very cheaply made. The prayer was brief. Although I resented having to do this, and felt irrationally that drivers passing buy might think I was praying to the mailbox itself, I did as I promised every day.
Eventually, after months of slogging through sleet and snow, the house was sold. At that point, I was instructed to dig up St. Joseph and send him on to my (now former) neighbor.
Oddly, I found myself getting to feel quite close to St. Joseph as time passed. I began thinking of what life must have been for him in Galilee. I was actually a little sad when I had to dig St. Joseph up and send him off to Florida in a box.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
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Wm Dewy
Shipmate
# 16712
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Posted
quote:
St. Anthony is the patron saint for lost keys of course....
I always like St Zita for lost keys. It's good to specialize a bit. It would be nice to have a St Zita key ring, but apparently the merchants think there isn't a market for one.
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"And harmoniums and barrel - organs be miserable--what shall I call 'em ? - miserable machines for such a divine thing as music!"
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
This thread has been very educational.
I knew about St. Catherine for husbands, and St. Joseph for real estate, and of course 'Tony, Tony, please come down …', but I'd never even heard of St. Zita. Glad to find out about St. Anne for boyfriends. Any limit to how many? ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
Chiming back in to add:
How does the Infant of Prague work with weather? Except that the Blessed Mother says to him, 'You think you're going out of the house in THAT!' ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Wm Dewy: I always like St Zita for lost keys. It's good to specialize a bit. It would be nice to have a St Zita key ring, but apparently the merchants think there isn't a market for one.
A wood sculptor made a costum key ring for me once, maybe that would be an idea?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
How does the Infant of Prague work with weather?
All I know is that he is heavily alarmed.
i wanted to see the statue but the church was packed full for a mass and i was in a hurry so I squeezed into the side aisle and went just inside the altar rail on the left hand side where it is kept and set off all the alarms - and made a rapid exit to avoid arrest.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Why not ask politely, offer a gift in an area that's important to them (like working with Habitat for Humanity, if you're approaching Joseph for a house), amend your behavior, etc.?
When actor Danny Thomas was young, he asked St. Jude to help him with his career, and promised that he'd build a hospital if he were helped. His career got going, and he started St. Jude's hospital. I have no idea if Jude was really involved, but Danny kept his promise.
I agree. A pragmatic approach to dealing with folk religion would be to recognise it will never disappear completely so we may as well try to direct it towards doing something good instead of just propping up a religious statue cottage industry.
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
And there's certainly a protestant variety of this mentality - prosperity gospel, anyone?
At least the catholic version keeps the devotees in contact with a wider church.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
And there's certainly a protestant variety of this mentality - prosperity gospel, anyone?
At least the catholic version keeps the devotees in contact with a wider church.
Yes indeed. I recall as a lark years back some friends received a paper imitation handkerchief that was meant to be touched to the TV screen during certain moments of a televangelist's broadcast. One would not only be healed but would receive great prosperity - following a donation, of course.
Does it become a third class relic of some sort ?!
(I'd not be so certain about the catholic versions as many of them are solitary exercises.)
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
(I walked in a procession for Saint Anthony this evening, with some Catholic friends. It was very moving, I liked it.)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
I recall as a lark years back some friends received a paper imitation handkerchief that was meant to be touched to the TV screen during certain moments of a televangelist's broadcast. One would not only be healed but would receive great prosperity - following a donation, of course.
Does it become a third class relic of some sort ?!
Second-class if it is a used handkerchief!
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
I was staying in a hotel and watching a TV Evangelist who said," Mother's press your sick babies to the TV screen." ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
I had injured my foot rather badly that day, so I put it forward.
Alas, nothing happened but then I was of very little faith that it would cure me, and he did say I had to believe to be healed.
It was hard to tell if he himself believed what he was doing or not.
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
St Zita is the patron saint of housekeepers, and can be identified by her big bunch of keys and her grocery basket. The keys, and the absence of a crown, are the best ways of telling her from St Elizabeth of Hungary in mediaeval paintings. We've got one here, and for years it was misidentified.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Indifferently
Shipmate
# 17517
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Posted
I can't decide whether I hate this sort of Roman Catholic quaint superstition or just find it funny.
Posts: 288 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Jan 2013
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Swick
Shipmate
# 8773
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Posted
Years ago I visited the California home of some Mexican friends of a (Mexican) friend of mine. The fireplace in the livingroom had been turned into a shrine, with candles, water offering, and fruit offering, and a garland around the fireplace.
I also something similiar in a Spanish language movie about a young woman in Cuba, who was looking for a husband or boyfriend. She also had a homemade shrine with the same items, but they were on a table or shelf. She got a date with the man she wanted but it didn't go well, so when she got home she took away the water and fruit offering!
Posts: 197 | From: Massachusetts, USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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Swick
Shipmate
# 8773
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Posted
Years ago I visited the California home of some Mexican friends of a (Mexican) friend of mine. The fireplace in the livingroom had been turned into a shrine, with candles, water offering, and fruit offering, and a garland around the fireplace.
I also something similiar in a Spanish language movie about a young woman in Cuba, who was looking for a husband or boyfriend. She also had a homemade shrine with the same items, but they were on a table or shelf. She got a date with the man she wanted but it didn't go well, so when she got home she took away the water and fruit offering!
Posts: 197 | From: Massachusetts, USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
I can't decide whether I hate this sort of Roman Catholic quaint superstition or just find it funny.
But pressing paper handkerchiefs to TV screens is okay? Ha !
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
There's a great old movie called "Sally & St. Anne". Maureen O'Hara plays Sally, a tough, Irish-American, Catholic school teen. She's having a feud with an adult. (I think he's making trouble for her family.)
So she goes to the school chapel to pray to whomever her usual person is--but the school bell rings, and she can't get to that shrine. So she stops at the one that's right by her--St. Anne, grandmother of Jesus. She prays, then goes to class. Doesn't get the result she wanted, so she goes back to the shrine and tells Anne off. Suggests that Anne give the man a black eye, then storms out.
Two nuns are watching this unfold. One says, "What impudence!" and the other says, "What faith!"
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Next time Sally goes to Sunday mass, the man has a black eye! From then on, she's totally devoted to Anne. Takes prayer requests to pass on. IIRC, the prayers are all answered in a good way. Sally is very ecumenical about taking prayer requests. Once, she's talking with a Jewish man (druggist?) who has a problem. She offers to bring it up with St. Anne. "No, thanks, I'm Jewish", he says. Sally gives him a funny look, and says "She's the grandmother of our Lord". "So?",the man says. "Jesus was Jewish," said Sally. Big smile on man's face.
(There are other things going on in the movie, too. Sally's from a large, somewhat stereotypically Irish family. Boxing brothers. Her sweet grandpa *plays* at being an invalid, and knits in his room all day. He keeps saying that when the knitting is done, he'll die and go to heaven. So whenever she gets a chance, Sally rips out a couple rows of the knitting!)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
Chinese restaurants would typically put a statue of the Chinese God of wealth in order to generate prosperity.
One Chinese restaurant I went to, instead of the God of Wealth, placed a Crucifix.
Now I assume that the owner is Roman Catholic, but I wonder if he piously placed it out simply as religious devotion or did he actually expect the Lord Jesus Christ to shower prosperity in the same way as the Taoist God of Wealth?
Now of course, we can't get in anyone's heads, but it did strike me as interesting to ponder.
In rural New Hampshire, on a traffic circle* (*roundabout for Brits) in the middle of absolutely nowhere, I used to stop when in the area at a Chinese restaurant situated there.
The Muzak there played end-to-end Christmas carols, regardless of season. I remember eating lunch there on a blistering July day -- more to get into the air conditioning than to have Chinese food -- and downing my Mo Shu vegetables to the tune of "O Come All Ye Faithful."
Unfortunately, I forgot to note whether any prosperity gods of any particular tradition were on duty.
[ 14. June 2013, 23:02: Message edited by: Porridge ]
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Anglican_Brat: One Chinese restaurant I went to, instead of the God of Wealth, placed a Crucifix.
Maybe it's a reaction to Western restaurants putting up a lot of Buddha images? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Swick:
Years ago I visited the California home of some Mexican friends of a (Mexican) friend of mine. The fireplace in the livingroom had been turned into a shrine, with candles, water offering, and fruit offering, and a garland around the fireplace.
I also something similiar in a Spanish language movie about a young woman in Cuba, who was looking for a husband or boyfriend. She also had a homemade shrine with the same items, but they were on a table or shelf. She got a date with the man she wanted but it didn't go well, so when she got home she took away the water and fruit offering!
You'd recognize my home oratory, then. However, it's not looking for a date. It's just, you know, an oratory. Us Hispanics love our prayer corners.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Does anyone celebrate Christ's "little side hole" (Seitenhölchen) anymore? That is, the spear hole in Christ's side, and Christ's wounds in general "so moist, so gory", loved of the Moravians and Count Zinzendorf of 250 years ago.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Does anyone celebrate Christ's "little side hole" (Seitenhölchen) anymore? That is, the spear hole in Christ's side, and Christ's wounds in general "so moist, so gory", loved of the Moravians and Count Zinzendorf of 250 years ago.
I don't know, but the Passionist order still celebrates the feast of the Five Wounds of Christ.
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Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I can't explain very well why, but the word Seitenhölchen sounds very funny.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Anglican_Brat: One Chinese restaurant I went to, instead of the God of Wealth, placed a Crucifix.
Maybe it's a reaction to Western restaurants putting up a lot of Buddha images?
Who knows? But it is not rare: within the past year (as I live in a non-monochrome part of Ottawa) I have been to a local restaurant with an image of Our Lady of Vietnam, and two Chinese restaurants with Xn imagery-- one with a Sunday School image of OLJC, and another with a plain cross. My guess is that they are likely Baptists or Alliance rather than RC.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I can't explain very well why, but the word Seitenhölchen sounds very funny.
Very viele much von German ist gesounding zo much krank vor dem ears which Ich possess.
Back on topic, I wonder if there's a mass setting in faux German, or maybe pseudo-Dutch? Failing that a comedy mass setting?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Failing that a comedy mass setting?
Appropriately for the Ship, there's a Pirate Eucharist.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Does the RCC still grant nihil obstat and imprimatur publishing approval?
Yes, it sure does. But each of these has a narrow technical meaning. The nihil obstat is a certification that there is nothing in the certified publication contrary to the Church's teachings on faith and morals. It is not an indication that the opinions in the book are shared by he censor. An imprimatur is a declaration that a book may be published - clerics and members of religious institutes are required to obtain the permission of their superior before publishing work related to faith and morals. Again it is not an endorsement of a work, rather it is a statement of what it is not: i.e. a work containing statements or advancing opinions contrary to the Church's teachings on faith and morals.
Interesting to hear this side of the NO/imp discussion—I work at a very Catholic publishing house that regularly publishes academic works by members of religious orders and clerics (especially Dominicans) and I've never heard of them having to get permission from their superior to publish with us. Is this something that we just don't hear about, might it be something granted to them when they become academics (and are thus expected to publish regularly), or might it be tied up with their canonical teaching license?
The other side of this tangent is that just because a work doesn't have NO/imp doesn't necessarily mean that it's not in conformity with Catholic doctrine on faith and morals, but, more likely, that the publisher didn't want to have to deal with possible delays to their publication schedule by getting approval. We recently published a book by the Pope Emeritus; if anyone really wants to accuse Benedict XVI of making public statements that deviate from Catholic teachings, imprimatur or no imprimatur...
But, more to the point, unusual devotion styles. While the Penetentes of New Mexico certainly fall into this category, I suspect some of that is syncretic, and it's not as if the Catholic Church really supports the activities of a secret organization it's suppressed. However, on the list of things that are completely above-ground is devotion to Our Lady of Ghisello, the Patroness of Bicyclists, whose shrine is appropriately located at the top of an 8-14% grade climb near Lake Como that regularly appears in the Giro di Lombardia bike race. In addition to the bike pilgrimage, however, bike racers regularly send jerseys, saint medals, or even bikes to the shrine in thanks for their wins—so the shrine has jerseys, saint medals, and bikes from most of the big names of cycling (Baroli, Coppi, and Mercx just for starters). The church got to be so crowded that, overwhelmed by the offerings and the secular visitors flocking to see them, they had to move most of the gifts to the newly-constructed cycling museum next door.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I'm fond of Notre Dame de Rugby.
I'm sure that in addition to helping out unemployed Hispanic girls who'd like a job and a boyfriend (or girlfriend as the case may be), Mary is only too happy to assist beefy young men with nicely toned and hairy thighs.
Also at this site here. "The French Rugby site that doesn't use cookies, but is quite partial to a Petit Beurre".
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
Canons 822-832 refer. Your experience is, however, common: these norms are honoured more in the breach than the observance these days.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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