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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Children and gender biased play
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chive
Ship's nude
# 208
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Posted
Sorry for the crap title but I couldn't think of what to call this thread.
I recently spent a few days with my nephew (3 3/4 - the 3/4 is very important) and my niece (2 1/2) and I was very interested in the way they were treated and they played.
My sister and brother in law are good enough parents, they care deeply for the kids, love them to bits and spend as much time as two working people can. However I was interested in how the two were treated differently and I was wondering how much is nature and how much nurture.
My nephew loves all sports, can ride a bike brilliantly and runs everywhere. He likes to climb hills, play with his cars (I now know all about Lightening McQueen) and is desperate to be a told he's a big boy.
My niece has no interest in any kind of sport, adores Minnie Mouse, dolls houses, shoes and anything pink. If asked to pick clothes it was always be pink clothes. She is desperate to be told she's a pretty girlie.
I abhor sexism. Indeed I went into a major strop at the supermarket when I saw a dinosaur sticker book being advertised for boys and a princess one for girls. I don't believe that there is a traditional role that girls or boys should fill and they should do what they like.
However, I see my nephew and niece and see that they fall into almost every gender stereotype there is. Is this normal? Should this be challenged? Or do kids naturally go through phases when they are very girlie or very boyey?
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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost
Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
Based on my experience, kids definitely go through phases where they learn what society thinks gender is and try to express it, but a huge amount is up to the parents. My daughter has always liked lightening mcqueen, and has always had a moderate interest in dinosaurs. Currently she's intensely into superheros too. However, she is also regularly a princess and likes pink a good deal. I have strongly supported the superhero craze as in her social crowd everyone seems to either be into princesses or superheros (there may be other options for boys, I'm not sure, don't seem to be for girls.) Note that except for the princess thing I have never consciously encouraged or discouraged any gender expression or trait currently associated with one gender or the other. However, I have no tv* and multiple gender-queer friends, some in more outre ways than others, so definitely Goblin gets input that is different from what the average kid gets.
*Mind, she does watch videos on youtube, but most of the worst tripe she doesn't know exists.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Kitten
Shipmate
# 1179
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Posted
I have a Grandson, also aged 3 3/4. His favourite toys for some time have been his collection of unicorns and ponies, many of them pink or mauve.
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Maius intra qua extra
Never accept a ride from a stranger, unless they are in a big blue box
Posts: 2330 | From: Carmarthenshire | Registered: Aug 2001
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WhyNotSmile
Shipmate
# 14126
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Posted
I help out with a parent and toddler group, and I'm fascinated by this. I would never think to encourage a boy to play with a different toy from a girl, but have been surprised when I've seen parents take a toy pram away from a boy and give him building blocks instead, that kind of thing.
As far as I can tell, left to their own devices, most of the children would happily play with any toy - some of the girls prefer dolls, but so do some of the boys. The boys would tend to be a bit more boisterous, though, in general - if they have a pram, there's a fair chance the doll inside will be tipped out as they race round a corner.
There's also a difference in how some parents speak to their children. Girls will be told they're pretty, looking nice today, wearing nice shoes etc. Boys will be told they're big and strong. I make a point of trying not to do that - I'll encourage the girls to show off their muscles and I'll tell the boys I like their shoes. They always seem equally pleased.
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Come visit:
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Posts: 528 | From: Belfast | Registered: Sep 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
It's an interesting question.
My younger child was always more physically active than my elder; trying to keep up, I think. If the elder one climbed to the top of the climbing frame, the younger one was never far behind. The younger was far more of a dare-devil. This seems to be true of a number of sibling pairings I know, so I think birth order comes into it.
In my case, my son is the elder and my daughter the younger, which I see is also the case with your nephew and niece, but my daughter was always the more physically active.
My sons favourite colour at 3 3/4 was pink. He had lots of small pink stuff; his toothbrush was always pink, for example. He continued to like pink up until he hit the teenage head-to-foot-in-black stage. His sister loathed and abhorred anything pink, always did and still does.
That said, book-wise, they split into more gender stereotypes. He loved Thomas the Tank engine and she loved books about fluffy kittens. Also, my daughter loved crafts; if she had a friend round to play, the chances were that they'd both spend the time sitting quietly at a table, assembling Hama beads, whereas if my son had a friend round, the noise levels went through the roof.
I was determined to bring my children up gender-neutral, but I'm not sure that it's that easy. It's hard to step back from day-to-day parenting and look at the bigger picture.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
I have strongly supported the superhero craze as in her social crowd everyone seems to either be into princesses or superheros (there may be other options for boys, I'm not sure, don't seem to be for girls.)
Miss Cniht has never liked princesses (because they're "silly, and don't do anything", but isn't interested in superheroes either. She is animal-crazy, though (loves playing with actual animals, reading fiction featuring animal characters, imaginative play with cuddly toy animals etc.) A couple of her friends are very much girly girls (one in particular is guaranteed to show up in sparkly shoes and a pretty dress to play in the back yard).
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085
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Posted
My daughter (just turned 3) loves cars, trains, emergency vehicles, etc and is very physically active and good at climbing. She has no interest in baby dolls, and only a small interest in princesses (she just likes to recognise and know the names of some of the Disney ones, but probably wouldn't know what to do with a doll or dress-up outfit of one).
Gwai, I'm shocked at that playground exchange ("I'm sorry! I meant she's so pretty!"). I've never heard anything like that.
At the toddler groups we go to, boys put on sparkly shoes and push prams and girls play with cars and everyone seems fine with that.
I guess there probably is a tendency for children to like toys aimed at their own gender more than chance, but it's certainly not universal.
Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
My nephew was policed by his peers when he turned up at school - boys don't do that, he was told, and ceased from whatever it was at school, and at home.
Tricky to be neutral.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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argona
Shipmate
# 14037
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Posted
Random memories of socialisation when my kids were small...
The birthday party I took my daughter to, three boys present, the friend's brother and two of his friends invited to keep him company. Talking and playing happily until someone commented loudly on how good 'the boys' were being, whereupon their ears pricked up and they started playing up.
The mother at a toddler group who smiled approvingly while her little boy bullied other children and snatched the toys they were playing with.
The little boy who slugged a little girl and made her cry. The boy's childminder apologised to the girl's mother, who replied 'That's all right, it's not as if a girl did it.'
Oh, and my daughter, was she about 9 at the time? Told me how she and her friends beheaded a barbie doll with a kitchen knife. Some sort of rite of passage.
Nature and nurture, you can't disentangle them with anecdotes.
Posts: 327 | From: Oriental dill patch? (4,7) | Registered: Aug 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Parents can aim for gender neutral, but IME, societal influence can counter some of this. Keeping grandparents in line can be an issue as well.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
I have two children, a girl who is nearly five, and a boy who is nearly two.
I have always been of the opinion that the vast majority of supposed gendered 'preferences' or 'instincts' are simply picked up by children from their interactions and their environments (they are learning machines at this age, after all), and not due to their apportionment of chromosomes.
My daughter, up until about three and a half, was not a 'typical' girl at all, as the stereotypes go. She has always been very physical in her play. Her best friends were always boys, she had no interest in princesses or fairies, preferred real ponies to pink plastic ones, determinedly stuck to green as her favorite colour, and above all, liked to play with and in anything that was wet or messy. Sand, dirt, clay, goop, water - combinations of these... Then she very abruptly changed to be 'all girly', wants to only wear pink and purple, obsessed with princesses and sparkly things - the works. I sort of have the feeling that it has been a conscious change on her part, though. She has figured out that girls and boys are different, and that she is a girl, and she is now going to great lengths to define herself as one. I don't like it much, but I think I might make it worse by objecting, so we just run with it most of the time and hope it will run its course.
My son is of course too young to know anything about gender stereotypes. He has always seemed to me to be the 'softer' of the two, though (and that is not intended to be pejorative). He is quieter, less outgoing, more reserved, slower to pick things up - walked later. Much more timid of strangers, animals, new situations. Loves cuddly toys and books about teddies, etc. Who knows how all this will turn out - he's still so young. The one thing about him I really can't explain - by either social stereotyping or something 'genetic' (how could such a thing be genetic), is his overmastering obsession mechanical things. Truck! Digger! Motorbike! Bus! Train! Tractor! Life is all about spotting these things and drawing others' attention to them. It's almost like he learned to talk in order to say these words. You can do something like go to the zoo, and he is more interested in the ride-on lawnmower that he sees there, than any of the animals... what is with that?
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
It seems to me that gendered clothing and toys increase consumer spending. Ideally, I wanted my first child to have say, pyjamas / T shirts / jogging trousers etc in a cheerful primary colour with perhaps stripes, spots or an animal motif which could be passed down to siblings of either gender and thence onwards to their younger cousins.
Manufacturers know that if they push gendered colour clothing, then parents will end up buying two sets of clothes if they have opposite sex children. Even worse are motifs relevant to the latest Disney release or TV fad, which are not only gendered but date very quickly.
I think that clothing has become more polarised between khaki for boys and pink for girls, especially at the cheaper end of the market, and that this is largely a cynical marketing ploy.
The same goes for Lego. Generations of children have played perfectly happily with primary coloured Lego. But now there is "Lego Friends" in pinks and purples; suddenly a mixed-sex family "needs" two sets of Lego where one was plenty ten years ago.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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argona
Shipmate
# 14037
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Keeping grandparents in line can be an issue as well.
Yes! My brother's mother-in-law threw a wobbler when she saw his son in pink pyjamas.
Posts: 327 | From: Oriental dill patch? (4,7) | Registered: Aug 2008
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Many years ago in a child psychology class I recall a video which showed boys and girls playing with little cars. They seemed to be enjoying the play. Now, while the girls made motor sounds, they were not like the boys who were making sounds as if the cars were going through gear changes, revving their motors, screeching brakes and the like. The girls did not do that.
I wonder if that is still the case today.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Not a parent, but an aunt and great-aunt checking in here. Things have definitely gone downhill in the toy and clothes departments since the 80s.
In the 80s, we were able to buy gender-neutral toys and clothes for nieces and nephews without any trouble. It's almost impossible today for great nieces and nephews. And the fact it's so prevalent does make it difficult to go against sterotype, for fear of what the parents(ie, now, my nieces and nephews) might feel - we don't want to upset Nephew A by buying a 'boy's' toy for his little girl. And then there is Niece B's husband, who is very strict about gender roles - we might not agree, but don't want to fall out.
As they get older, it is a bit easier, as it becomes more apparent what sort of things the children are interested in. But we find it a minefield.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I would think that boys toys for a girl would be less of a problem than girls toys for a boy - they put all the science stuff in the male department, for example. Do they put cooking sets in the girls? I would think a small baking set (of the sort that can really produce actual cooked food) might go the other way OK in some families*, but otherwise I can't think of much in the pink aisles of good play value to anyone.
*Wrapped up in images of Jamie, and James, and Gordon(?) and Heston etc.....
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Originally posted by Gramps 49:
quote:
Now, while the girls made motor sounds, they were not like the boys who were making sounds as if the cars were going through gear changes, revving their motors, screeching brakes and the like. The girls did not do that.
I wonder if that is still the case today.
Real driving ought to involve "motor sounds" but not engine revving or, except in extreme cases, screeching brakes.
It sounds as though the girls were going to grow up to be the better drivers, ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
I have two boys and we encouraged them to have a mix of toys and colours, we had a huge rag doll called Barry who was my eldest's companion til he was about 4 and we had a doll's pushchair too (ELC actually had a pushchair aimed at the boy audience, it was the inevitable blue rather than pink like their other one ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ) we later passed the pushchair on to another boy. School does make a huge impact on gender stereotyping, but we found that our children differed in their susceptibility. My eldest, who is of a serious scientific bent, was unconcerned about conforming to type and has no horror of pink whereas my creative and artistic youngest worries far more about how he looks to others and has a horror of supposedly girls things, despite by nature being more drawn to them (he would be horrified to see his toddler collection of My Little Ponies now, let alone the handbags). He still loves his cuddly toys at age 9 and has channelled his love of pretty things into collecting rocks and fossils. He has long hair and for some reason doesn't associate this with girls though he gets very cross when mistaken for one (as he often is as he generally wears bright clothes).
My boy are as now of the age to be obsessed by computers, and the youngest still has lego (that new lego aimed at girls makes me cringe!), he is also interested in fashion and cares far more about how he looks than his brother, which I'm guessing is his more arty nature showing through.
We don't have a TV either and I definitely think this is helpful in reducing the gender stereotyping, with our eldest iPlayer wasn't around either so that might help explain his more relaxed attitude.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Definately blue and Action Man for boys and pink and My Little Pony for girls.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
My two (girl and boy) are now teenagers. They seem to have survived having me as the main caregiver. I didn't go a bundle on "dolls!" and "cars!" - we have about two sacks full of wooden Brio train set, enough to cover our admittedly large living carpet, and that kept the pair of them busy, building villages and telling stories with the little figures. Yes, there were dolls and doll houses - they both played with them. Yes, there were cars and trucks - they both played with those too.
Now at 15 and 13, the Girl has a reasonably robust attitude to life and isn't afraid to get dirty, and the Boy has very long hair and is an excellent cook.
You can't dictate what they play with (okay, you can, but that doesn't end well). Give them lots of options, don't sweat it if they choose something you wouldn't have, and realise that a lot of the expensive pieces of plastic are going to be forgotten in a year's time.
My two are turning out to be reasonably decent human beings. Which is nice.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Heavenly anarchist: quote:
He has long hair
Doc Tor : quote:
the Boy has very long hair
My son, too; it's wavy and just below shoulder length when dry, but almost waist length when wet and combed straight.
Interesting that three of the posters on this thread have long haired sons. Somebody at church has suggested that we encourage him to get it cut, but I joked that it's a subconscious response to spending every Sunday morning looking at our stained glass Crucifiction window, with its long-haired Jesus.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Heavenly anarchist: quote:
He has long hair
Doc Tor : quote:
the Boy has very long hair
My son, too; it's wavy and just below shoulder length when dry, but almost waist length when wet and combed straight.
Interesting that three of the posters on this thread have long haired sons. Somebody at church has suggested that we encourage him to get it cut, but I joked that it's a subconscious response to spending every Sunday morning looking at our stained glass Crucifiction window, with its long-haired Jesus.
I had long hair at, and after, university (because it was cheaper than getting it cut), but by the time the boy turned up, I'd had it cut short, because, you know, creeping baldness.
His school doesn't mind, his judo instructor doesn't mind. He keeps it tied back for sport, science and cooking. It is, to be fair, an astonishing red-blond colour so probably worth making the most of before it all falls out.
I certainly get far fewer 'he should get it cut' comments than my mum did about me, and it's indicative of a less gender-stereotyped age.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Long hair, short hair, shaven heads are no-one else's business but the boy or girl concerned, IMHO.
Just so long as it is neat and clean. Or polished.
As a grumpy elder person, I am dismayed by the current trends in his and her toys.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
We have a boy aged 8, a girl aged 5 and a 2 year old boy. The girl has always been interested in Disney princesses from as long as we can remember; she hates cars etc. The older boy likes Lego, football, Star Wars, nerf guns and cars but is a sensitive guy as well. The younger boy is much more 'gung-ho' and boisterous. He also likes cars, cowboys, Star Wars etc but I have also seen him playing with some of our daughter's 'pink' toys. We have not done anything to encourage any of this; it's just the way they are.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Our son gets very few negative comments, and has had old bald men telling him to make the most of it while he can. One wee dumpy woman in her 60s said he reminded her of her husband, when they were dating in the 1970s. Quite misty-eyed she was. Allegedly her husband (bald bloke in anorak) had been quite the heart-throb back in the day.
So do we think that colour (pink for girls / blue for boys) has become more gendered, but hairstyles less so?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
In western culture, colour seems to have become more gendered once again.
In other cultures all colours are worn cheerfully and indiscriminately by anyone.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Long hair for men seems to be coming back into fashion. I do know a teenage boy who's just had his hair cut after years of having it long, though. Not sure whether he was responding to peer pressure or just got fed up of washing and combing it.
For those who believe that long hair is a sign of effeminacy, I direct your attention to this guy...
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Long hair by itself isn't effeminate, no. It entirely depends upon the person in question as to whether or not it's poncy.
[ 12. July 2013, 10:20: Message edited by: Ad Orientem ]
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Pommie Mick
Shipmate
# 12794
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Posted
Pushing this 'gender neutrality' line with children is as concerning to me as rigidly gendered toys.
Posts: 185 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Jul 2007
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Likewise.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
In western culture, colour seems to have become more gendered once again.
In other cultures all colours are worn cheerfully and indiscriminately by anyone.
Colour seems to have gone into reverse more recently. It's really only pink and blue for tinies it seems.
For adults, women have always been able to wear pretty much any colour. Pink was a slightly "off" colour for men, though not universally. Pink shirts were always generally acceptable, and for those who have to wear formal shirts every day, at least one pink or pink & white shirt was likely to be a part of the "well-dressed gentleman's" wardrobe. Then there was the recent vogue for red trousers which now seems to have moved on to pink. It's pretty well been reclaimed it seems, though as all this is simply culturally based, it's likely to vary from culture to culture.
Doc Tor wrote:
quote:
I certainly get far fewer 'he should get it cut' comments than my mum did about me, and it's indicative of a less gender-stereotyped age.
I was with you until this bit. There's a load of stuff that's more gendered now than it was when I was young, though some things have become less or non-gendered. Some of these things are listed in the earlier posts above.
And if you go back to the Georgian period, then the concept of gender for children was non-existent in England at least. It really is that recent an intrusion I think. Which is not to say that there are not differences between the sexes in the way they play etc., but it's fearfully difficult to disentangle that when you get parental expectation and then peer-group pressure kicking in.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
I'm wearing a pink shirt today, FWIW
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
My 2c is that you shouldn't make a big deal out of ridding your house of all gender stereotypes. As my Aunt said, if you don't let your girls have some pink and pretty things then they'll end up like Barbara Cartland when they do get their own way.
I'd say let the kids play with what interests them and don't ban anything unless there's a health or genuine ideological reason (eg shooting games etc) BUT encourage your girls to take an interest in dinosaurs and bulldozers, talk to them show them and play with these things with them. I was horrified to see the OP say the girl wasn't interested in any sport. Sport shouldn't be seen as a boy thing, definitely find sports that the girl can do-get her outside throwing and kicking a ball NOW. Ballet is a good idea for the pink mad girl but I'd strongly encourage a sport as well.
it is harder with boys but I think it's good to encourage them to be caring and nurturing by letting them care for teddy bears and to put them in prams and cots etc Similarly encourage them in quieter activities like puzzles and playdough (when they're young enough for it)
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
My son is 1. I'm the sort of person who complains to stores about gendered toys, tweets to companies if I think their stuff is rubbish (google girls and boys magnetic words if you really want to be depressed) and had no problem dressing my son in pink-trimmed babygros we'd inherited. I told the library their books were sexist ('Whose hat?', where the men are superheros, and the girls fret about their appreance, is my recent problem one). I like it when people ask if he's a girl so I get to reply 'no, tell me is it the outfit, or is it the pink cup he's drinking out of you have a problem with?'.
His favorite toy at the moment is a plastic car, a ball, and of his five discernable sounds, one is unmistakeably 'car noise', picked up from a noisy jigsaw he has. I'm sure he'll also go through a pink and doll stage (well, I hope not, I never went through a doll stage so I hope he doesn't), but it has made me think (even harder) about what toys he has.
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
When my daughters were small I used to tell them to do what they wanted as long as it was not dangerous, destructive or wrong. They should not worry about whether something was supposed to be for boys or girls, or about something that was supposed to be for an younger or older child.
I gulped silently when my eight-year-old wanted a toy that was marketed to five-year-olds. However, I bought it for her, and she played with it in a far more sophisticated manner than a younger child would have.
Every child needs to follow his/her natural bent. Otherwise they can't reach their potential.
Moo
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Erik
Shipmate
# 11406
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Posted
I have a 2-year old boy. We generally try to leave the decisions about toys and clothing colours up to him. He goes for both cars/building and pushchairs etc.
While I am happy about this I am often bemused by the response of others. We have had a number of comments about us allowing him to have pink wellies (he was given the choise and picked them),etc, and also about his hair length (when wet it comes quite far down his neck but when dry is very curly). This always leaves me feeling quite uncomfortable. I think being able to play with or wear whatever he wants is a good thing but sometimes wonder if I am setting him up for bullying when he gets older.
As for pushchairs/prams being girly- I often push him in the pushchair. Why should this be a girly activity when all dads I know do it?
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One day I will think of something worth saying here.
Posts: 96 | From: Leeds, UK | Registered: May 2006
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Jane R
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# 331
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Posted
ferijen: quote:
I told the library their books were sexist ('Whose hat?', where the men are superheros, and the girls fret about their appreance, is my recent problem one).
It's not entirely the library's fault; they can only buy what's been published. And although there are a lot of good books out there, quite a lot of the others do have sexist stereotypes in them... I hope you complain to the publisher too.
I think North-East Quine has nailed it; it's a cynical marketing ploy to (potentially) double the amount of money parents have to spend on their children.
My girl is planning to repaint her bedroom this summer - pink is Too Babyish and she no longer plays with her Barbies (not even Headless Monster Barbie). She's leaning towards blue at the moment.
[ 12. July 2013, 12:45: Message edited by: Jane R ]
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
quote:
I never went through a doll stage so I hope he doesn't...
Boys do have dolls. Action Man is a doll. Buzz Lightyear is a doll. Train sets are not scale models; they are toys for grown-up men.
You'll never get them to admit it, though. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
And actually, why shouldn't boys play with dolls and pushchairs if they see their fathers changing nappies and taking babies on outings?
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
A friend of mine gave her toddler a pushchair and doll, mostly to deflect him from playing enthusiastically but clumsily with his newborn brother.
At the baby clinic, one woman accused him of having "stolen" a little girl's pushchair. My friend confirmed that it was his, and that he was playing at being "daddy."
At which point the woman claimed that little boys who play at being daddies grow up gay. Apparently she thought that if little boys see their fathers in the "husband and father" role, it confuses them. ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Gwai
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# 11076
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erik:
While I am happy about this I am often bemused by the response of others. We have had a number of comments about us allowing him to have pink wellies (he was given the choise and picked them),etc, and also about his hair length (when wet it comes quite far down his neck but when dry is very curly). This always leaves me feeling quite uncomfortable. I think being able to play with or wear whatever he wants is a good thing but sometimes wonder if I am setting him up for bullying when he gets older
In my experience, it's not the confident kids that get bullied. If you teach your son to be confident, I bet he's fine. Besides, once he's a little older, you can always warn him that that choice will be non-normative. If you do it right, there's no reason he will feel you want him to make the normative choice all the time.
For instance, my daughter (Goblin) knows that there are times when I ask her to match. However, a couple days ago (hot summer day), she wore a long sleeved camo shirt, a delicate red velvet shoulder cover (for wearing with sleeveless dresses) and a bright pink skirt. It was bizarre, but since she was going to play with a friend and could change back when she wanted, all I said is "I don't mind if you don't mind, but that totally doesn't match." She said okay and met her friend looking like that.
Peer pressure in general does concern me though. Goblin does sometimes change for this friend because said friend pressures her to wear dresses and sadly she likes to confirm to that. Still, I've shut up about that and she's getting more into tough girl clothes again on her own.
[ 12. July 2013, 13:42: Message edited by: Gwai ]
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Zach82
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# 3208
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Posted
I'm a boy, and when I was a critter I liked nothing more than playing house and putting my teddy bear in diapers so I could wheel him around in my toy dump truck. His name, it won't interest you to know, was "Friend."
Boyhowdy did elementary school ever hammer those habits out of me.
[ 12. July 2013, 13:49: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Penny S
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# 14768
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Posted
I have a nice pair of Victorian china milkmaid and dairy lad - she is in blue, he is in pink. It's interesting that the colour was thought to be strong back then.
I had a teachers' assistant who was into serious pink - to the extent of hub caps on her car, and I thought that an attempt to sell pink tool sets to women was an infantilisation. But my sister thought it would be a good idea as her friend and neighbour was always borrowing her tools, and he might remember to return them if they were pink.
There was a song in, I think, "Funny Face" in which a fashionista was pushing pink as the new colour. It would not have been done if it was so general as it is now.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740
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Posted
I'm a big boy, but I still laugh at the story of when I used to used to wear pink shirts quite a lot for work, and some NZ clients (male) would visibly go pale, and say, oh man, what the hell is that? They were appalled that a bloke would wear pink. I guess this is antipodean hardcore machismo?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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