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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Marrying/Baptizing one's own family
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
11 August, 2013 16:39
I discussed this issue with clergy as to the appropriateness of officiating at one's own family's baptisms and weddings. I'm thinking of particularly of officiating for one's children.
The objections I've heard are:
1) It turns the sacramental celebration into a private family affair, whereas worship should be public.
2) Some ministers want to be "Dad" or "Mom" at these events. As in, they want to enjoy these occasions as parents, and not as officiants.
The pros are
1) Why wouldn't you want to officiate at your children's weddings/baptisms? It is a joy to be front and centre, witnessing your child's joyous event.
2)As a parent and a clergyperson, you are most likely your child's closest spiritual mentor. As such, it would be appropriate for you to officiate at their joyous occasion.
Anyone have thoughts or personal insights to share? Also, I would be interested if denominations have specific official policies on this issue.
[ 11. August 2013, 15:40: Message edited by: Anglican_Brat ]
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Raptor Eye
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# 16649
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Posted
11 August, 2013 16:55
I've been to a baptism where the priest was baptising his own children. Although it was a family event, it was his wider church family too who were able to welcome the children. It would have seemed odd if someone else had been brought in.
I wonder whether it would have been the same if he wasn't in his own church, however, or if a lay person were asking for a wedding blessing or leading the baptism of a member of his or her family.
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Cedd
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# 8436
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Posted
11 August, 2013 16:56
My only thought is that my 10 year old daughter has already decided that I will be the priest who marries her and that her brother will have to give her away. If that day happens I shall be very happy to officiate!
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Cedd
Churchmanship: This week I am mostly an evangelical, catholic, orthodox with both liberal and illiberal tendancies. Terms and conditions apply.
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Pomona
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# 17175
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Posted
11 August, 2013 17:01
My friend is getting married next year, and her dad will be officiating (her mum will give her away). However, our priest (from the church we and her fiance attend at uni) is doing the nuptial mass and our uni chaplain is doing the homily - I think it's better if family officiants don't have to do everything.
I've known an equal number of clergy children who wanted their parent to just be mum or dad and not marry them, as I have clergy children who have wanted their parent to officiate. Haven't known any clergy who have baptised their own children. Wonder how common it is for clergy to preside at family funerals?
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Cedd
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# 8436
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Posted
11 August, 2013 17:21
Yes, I have actually taken the funerals of both of my grandmothers. On both occasions I felt that it made the service more meaningful to my extended, non-churchgoing, family and I felt very 'happy' to be able to do this for my grandmothers and, I believe, that they would have been pleased too.
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Cedd
Churchmanship: This week I am mostly an evangelical, catholic, orthodox with both liberal and illiberal tendancies. Terms and conditions apply.
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
11 August, 2013 17:47
My Dad married me. He walked up the aisle with me, dropped me off with my husband-to-be then carried on up to the altar.
We both looked lovely in white ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
eta - oh, and he baptised me and both my children.
[ 11. August 2013, 16:47: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
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Gill H
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# 68
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Posted
11 August, 2013 17:57
My dad baptised me, in the church where he was vicar. At that time where we lived, the custom was to have baptisms as a separate service rather than part of the normal service.
I only learned recently that the vicar where dad was previously a curate was supposed to baptise me, but he was ill.
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Avila
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# 15541
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Posted
11 August, 2013 17:58
Baptism or wedding I might be comfortable with doing for a family member.
(Note as single childless it would at this stage in the life of the family tree be one step removed - eg my nephew's weddings or baptism of any children they may have)
I have however stated from the beginning of my training that I will not do any immediate family funerals. I may find I can contribute something in tribute, family members regularly but not frequently do. But I would want to be me in that moment not the one with the responsibility of holding things together for others.
Others may vary, personal choice. I don't think it needs to make it overly family focused - though I guess someone could make it so.
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Angloid
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# 159
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Posted
11 August, 2013 18:35
Both of my daughters were baptised in their parish church of which I was vicar: one by me and one by my brother, who is also a priest. But there is no way that these were private family celebrations (except the party afterwards): on both occasions there were other children being baptised at the same time.
What would have been odd, and given the completely wrong impression, would be to have sought out some other church and priest as if our children were too 'special' to be baptised alongside other children of the parish.
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Angloid
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# 159
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Posted
11 August, 2013 18:41
PS I preached at my mother's funeral and my brother presided at the requiem. However, when my father died I presided at a 'family' requiem before the public funeral led by the local vicar. Personally it helped me to have that degree of involvement. But others' MMV.
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Badger Lady
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# 13453
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Posted
11 August, 2013 18:59
Interesting. My mother - a Cof E priest - is not marrying me. I was very clear that I wanted her to be the 'mother of the bride' and not 'the vicar'.
The all consuming nature of vicar selection and training meant that it felt that the church was taking a parent away from me. I have no doubt about her calling and appreciate how selfish that sounds. I was in my teens when she started the process.
As a result I felt very strongly that I wanted my mother on my wedding day and I have asked a close friend who is a priest to conduct the service.
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would love to belong
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# 16747
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Posted
11 August, 2013 19:33
I was a guest at a wedding many years ago which was officiated by the bride's father. As with all weddings, the feeling of everyone present was joyful and hopeful and optimistic for the young couple. Sadly the marriage broke down within two years. The bride's father must have felt the same pain and sadness as any parent would whose child suffers the agony of divorce. But I wonder if the pain would be even more searing knowing that he had married the couple?
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chris stiles
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# 12641
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Posted
11 August, 2013 20:09
Separate wedding services already involve a privatisation of what used to be something celebrated in front of the whole community.
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
11 August, 2013 20:57
Oh, and my dad married us also. My beloved grandad walked me down the aisle. He was 90 years old and had a wonderfully dry sense of humour. When someone asked him on the day if he was nervous, he commented 'Oh, no - done it before!'
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
11 August, 2013 21:35
Is there an ordained/non-ordained divide emerging here?
I come from a nonconformist priesthood-of-all-believers background and the prospect of parents officiating at their own childrens' baptisms/weddings fills me with a sense, not of awe, but of "ewww". It seems too proprietorial somehow. Perhaps having robed clergy creates an acceptable distinction between the person and the function?
Others' mileage may vary, of course.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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Garasu
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# 17152
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Posted
11 August, 2013 21:42
quote:
For the right joining in marriage is the work of the Lord only, and not the priests or magistrates for it is God's ordinance and not man's and therefore Friends cannot consent that they should join them together: for we marry none it is the Lord's work, and we are but witnesses.
George Fox, 1669
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
11 August, 2013 22:30
Over the last year or so, our Rector has conducted the funeral of his father (with full Eucharist) and baptised a grandson. The funeral was held at another church, and the rector there acted as deacon, and other clergy were in the sanctuary also. I found it extremely moving, the last act he could perform for his father. It must have been very hard, though, especially following the coffin down the aisle while reciting the Nunc Dimittis.
The baptism was one of 3 performed in our usual 10 am Eucharist, the main one for the morning (almost all baptisms are performed in that service). It was an occasion for great joy, with other grandchildren there and many family around. It did not detract from the other baptisms either.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
11 August, 2013 22:38
quote:
Originally posted by Garasu:
quote:
For the right joining in marriage is the work of the Lord only, and not the priests or magistrates for it is God's ordinance and not man's and therefore Friends cannot consent that they should join them together: for we marry none it is the Lord's work, and we are but witnesses.
George Fox, 1669
Though there is an inconsistency there - if its the Lord's work, who cares who administers the ordinance.
And yes, I suspect there is some small conformist/non-conformist divide here, as the former would probably view it as an act performed whilst in their role of office.
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
11 August, 2013 22:44
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
if its the Lord's work, who cares who administers the ordinance.
That's kind of the point: God. Witnessed by the full congregation.
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
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Thurible
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# 3206
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Posted
12 August, 2013 12:11
My former parish priest began to celebrate the Requiem of his mother but broke down and a brother priest carried on (sometime around the Collect).
Another former parish priest suggested to the Bishop that he felt he should but wasn't sure if he could celebrate his mother's requiem. The Bishop told him not to be daft and that he (the Bishop) would celebrate it. Which offer the priest gratefully accepted.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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chris stiles
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# 12641
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Posted
12 August, 2013 12:45
quote:
Originally posted by Garasu:
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
if its the Lord's work, who cares who administers the ordinance.
That's kind of the point: God. Witnessed by the full congregation.
"therefore Friends cannot consent that they should join them together"
Which seems to imply he is saying that priests shouldn't conduct marriages of people they are friends with,
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
12 August, 2013 13:17
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Another former parish priest suggested to the Bishop that he felt he should but wasn't sure if he could celebrate his mother's requiem. The Bishop told him not to be daft and that he (the Bishop) would celebrate it. Which offer the priest gratefully accepted.
Come to think of it, the Bishop who has just retired from leading our diocese routinely celebrated funerals for members of the families of his clergy. It's a nice pastoral touch.
Moo
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HughWillRidmee
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# 15614
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Posted
13 August, 2013 00:22
I was outnumbered back and front at my wedding - stand-in parish priest did the intro, my ex's uncle gave a talk and my dad oversaw the plighting - seemed natural.
I know it gave dad great pleasure to christen his first grandson some years later - good thing too because the expectation of that pleasure was the reason it happened.
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The danger to society is not merely that it should believe wrong things.. but that it should become credulous, and lose the habit of testing things and inquiring into them...
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Nicolemr
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# 28
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Posted
13 August, 2013 01:55
I have a cousin who is a (now retired) Methodist minister and he has been involved with many family funerals, and also I believe officiated at his niece's wedding.
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L'organist
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# 17338
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Posted
13 August, 2013 14:34
A wise old priest I grew up knowing was very firm on this:
- at the baptism of your own child you should be there making the promises, not questioning the godparents and your wife - in other words, don't baptise your own children
- only the women of the family should be wearing fancy dress at a wedding - you are the father of the bride or groom, NOT their priest
- however great your belief in the hereafter it is not your place to take the funeral of your parents - rather you should be there as their child
The worst experience I ever had at a wedding was some years ago: the bride's mother had died suddenly 3 months before the nuptials. The bride (an only child) insisted she wanted Dad to do the service: fine until her father took one look at her at the chancel step and broke down, at which point there was an unseemly scramble to see which cleric present could get robed first to take over.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
IMHO you aren't being any less of a priest if you don't take the services but perhaps you are putting your responsibilities as a parent or child in the proper order if you get a colleague to do the service.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
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# 8891
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Posted
13 August, 2013 14:54
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My Dad married me. He walked up the aisle with me, dropped me off with my husband-to-be then carried on up to the altar.
We both looked lovely in white
Can I just say how lovely that sounds - must have given a real sense of you being part of a church family.
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Caissa
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# 16710
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Posted
13 August, 2013 15:10
Our rector has baptized several of her grandchildren.
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
13 August, 2013 15:10
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
We both looked lovely in white
That reminds me of the card I bought for a wedding couple recently (one of whom was training for ordination), which had one of the guests saying 'Lovely dress!' and the vicar saying 'Thank You!' ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
13 August, 2013 16:07
My son's father-in-law was the assistant chaplain (like a curate) of our church, which is where the wedding took place. He was very keen NOT to do the marrying part, but simply as the bride's father. I was surprised at first because I assumed he would find it quite special to perform the ceremony for his own daughter. That was also the position my grandpa was in when he married my parents (though I wasn't around at the time to witness it). After reflection it did make a lot of sense for all the reasons mention by others above.
Our sons were baptised as teenagers, by immersion. I was surprised when our chaplain asked me if I would like to help with the immersion part - I had thought it was something that only clergy would do. I have to say I found it a very moving experience.
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S. Bacchus
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# 17778
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Posted
13 August, 2013 16:31
Am I right in thinking that the provision for each priest to say three masses on All Souls Day was so that he could say a requiem for his parents/other relations, one for deceased parishoners and benefactors, and one for all the faithful departed?
I think that saying a requiem for dead relatives is one of those things that fall under the rather old-fashioned category of being 'of private duty bounden'.
ETA: I don't think there's traditionally been the idea that priests have similar duty with regards to Baptism or Holy Matrimony, though.
And 'marrying your own family' can be illegal, depending on the sense meant!
[ 13. August 2013, 15:32: Message edited by: S. Bacchus ]
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'It's not that simple. I won't have it to be that simple'.
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
13 August, 2013 16:46
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
PS I preached at my mother's funeral and my brother presided at the requiem. However, when my father died I presided at a 'family' requiem before the public funeral led by the local vicar. Personally it helped me to have that degree of involvement. But others' MMV.
Me and my sister organised and spoke at our Dad's (non-Christian) funeral amd I've been at other funerals taken by family members rather than a bought-in minister. It often works better than having a funeral taken by someone who didn;t know the dead person ata all, though I suppose it requires quite a lot of confidence at a very bad time.
On the happier side, I have met a vicar who baptised his own mother
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
13 August, 2013 21:30
My grandfather married my parents and baptised me and my brother and quite possibly others of his grandchildren. Suspect also his children, but don't know for sure. OTOH my uncle (the only ordained child when they died) did not conduct my grandparents' funerals though he spoke or prayed. Said uncle married his daughter last year. He didn't baptise his grandson, but that was because d-in-l is RC
Carys
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