Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Test as to whether you are really fussy about symmetry.
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
If you are not bothered by this, you are probably ok.
What does it say about the mentality of the paver?
Know any other such tests?
(Edited to change title) [ 11. October 2013, 10:16: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I am not bothered by it at all.
I don't like conformity.
I used to paint spots on ladybirds (yes!) it was a summer job at at jewelery factory in Birmingham.
Occasionally I would paint one blue with yellow spots to relieve the boredom - then rush through to quality control and packing to beg them to let it through (they did!). I would buy that one every time.
What does it say about the paver? S/he was bored, bored, bored!
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
There's nothing wrong with it. It's street art.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
A truly OCD person would be bothered that the lines are not straight.
Just sayin' 'cause it did not bother me, nope.
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
Yeah, that bothers me. It's up there with finding "SOTP" painted on the road.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Hazey*Jane
Ship's Biscuit Crumbs
# 8754
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by lilBuddha: A truly OCD person would be bothered that the lines are not straight.
Just sayin' 'cause it did not bother me, nope.
I have actual OCD (I'm not an 'OCD person', I'm person first and foremost, who happens to have OCD) and that doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'd be unimpressed with the carelessness of whoever laid the paving though. I mean, c'mon. Reminds me a bit of Breakout though.
[Worthy bit clarifying the perspective of people with mental health issues] We're not all clones and it's not a comedy condition defined by getting pissed off by things that are a bit wonky. Just because someone prefers things neat and tidy doesn't make them 'a bit OCD'. They're just neat and tidy. [/Worthy bit clarifying the perspective of people with mental health issues]
Do continue. And if the first image did bothers you, this may soothe.
[ETA - It's World Mental Health Day btw ] [ 10. October 2013, 19:17: Message edited by: Hazey*Jane ]
Posts: 4266 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Hazey*Jane: quote: Originally posted by lilBuddha: A truly OCD person would be bothered that the lines are not straight.
Just sayin' 'cause it did not bother me, nope.
I have actual OCD (I'm not an 'OCD person', I'm person first and foremost, who happens to have OCD) and that doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'd be unimpressed with the carelessness of whoever laid the paving though. I mean, c'mon. Reminds me a bit of Breakout though.
It actually does bother me. The misplaced paver does not as the image is too small to discern a pattern. Mightn't anyhow. But the poorly laid pavers do. It isn't the lines being crooked, but that they are not supposed to be crooked.
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
Yes it bothers me a lot.
It's not the crooked lines, nor is it the misplaces tile. I'm fine with both.
But the black blotches bother me, I'm fed up of having to remove someone else's chewing gum from my shoes.
-------------------- Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Being on the opposite end from OCD, no issues with it. I prefer a little bit of mess, malalignment, creativity, invention and slop. it is in the differences that we may find God. In the uniformity and control we find the devil. And control freaks. Thus, I felt the pattern was far to organized even with the one obvious error.
If we are created in God's image, we are best to try to avoid the O/C direction because obviously a creator who made not one thing the same is not OCD at all.
-------------------- Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety. \_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Well, we are what we are, I suppose.
Me, I thought it was a hoot. But then anyone looking at my house would think that reaction entirely in character.
And I put Easter eggs in everything I can (I'm in writing and publishing). When people find them, it's for me.
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Don't know what this says about me,* but it makes me want to find some strong, metaphorical statement inherent in the image.
In short, if I saw that, I would be dying for a camera.
* Send in the clowns! [ 11. October 2013, 02:50: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
-------------------- I cannot expect people to believe “ Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.” Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
It's a linearized yin yang drawing, isn't it?
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Kelly Alves: Don't know what this says about me,* but it makes me want to find some strong, metaphorical statement inherent in the image.
Let me know when you discover the hidden message.
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Hazey*Jane
Ship's Biscuit Crumbs
# 8754
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by no prophet: If we are created in God's image, we are best to try to avoid the O/C direction because obviously a creator who made not one thing the same is not OCD at all.
I'm hoping this is tongue in cheek?
Posts: 4266 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
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Posted
I know what you're getting at but I really really wish people would stop using the name of a debilitating mental illness to mean "a bit fussy about how things are organised".
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Liopleurodon: I know what you're getting at but I really really wish people would stop using the name of a debilitating mental illness to mean "a bit fussy about how things are organised".
I'm inclined to agree. Title edited.
Firenze Heaven Host
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Like others, I've always loved asymmetry, so I like the tiles. I've always liked the story that rugs made by Muslim craftsmen always had a deliberate error in them, as only God is perfect. Perhaps it applied to tiles as well, don't know, or in fact, it may be an urban miss, I mean, myth.
Spot the flaw:
http://www.geometricdesign.co.uk/images/illumination1.jpg
-------------------- I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
I have heard that about Amish quilts too.
And apparently in cooking, food is best displayed in odd numbers, because the lack of symmetry is more pleasing to the eye. Hence all those 'sharing platters' which annoyingly have five of each thing on them!
Thanks for fixing the thread title. As someone who has family with OCD completely unrelated to symmetry, I too find the casual use of it annoying. It's almost up there with the use of 'schizophrenic' to mean 'split personality' in silly jokes, when it doesn't mean that at all.
-------------------- *sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by quetzalcoatl: Like others, I've always loved asymmetry, so I like the tiles. I've always liked the story that rugs made by Muslim craftsmen always had a deliberate error in them, as only God is perfect. Perhaps it applied to tiles as well, don't know, or in fact, it may be an urban miss, I mean, myth.
In the Washington Cathedral, many of the stained glass windows have little jokes in them. For example, the medicine window shows a doctor in an old-fashioned buggy with a stork flying overhead carrying a baby.
I was told that this is an acknowledgement that our worship of God is necessarily imperfect.
Moo
-------------------- Kerygmania host --------------------- See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Has anyone else noticed the arrogance implicit in putting a deliberate error into work?*
I don't need to, there's always at least one.
*And it has occurred to me that creation has a few, anyway, so what does that tell us about God?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by NJA: What does it say about the mentality of the paver?
It says they wanted to annoy people for years and years after they'd walked away from the job and couldn't be held to account.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Penny S: Has anyone else noticed the arrogance implicit in putting a deliberate error into work?*
I don't need to, there's always at least one.
*And it has occurred to me that creation has a few, anyway, so what does that tell us about God?
That's he's not a YEC creationist type God!
-------------------- I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Penny S: Has anyone else noticed the arrogance implicit in putting a deliberate error into work?
I don't get it. How is it arrogant? The Shakers always put a deliberate error into their work because they thought only God had the right to be perfect. I'm not seeing how that's arrogant.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Because the artists is stating they are perfect. Conceited at the very least.
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Gill H: quote: And apparently in cooking, food is best displayed in odd numbers, because the lack of symmetry is more pleasing to the eye.
In flower-arranging and gardening too. I don't think it's the odd numbers as such - but if you have an odd number of bushes or carnations or whatever it forces you to introduce some sort of asymmetry to the arrangement, and then it looks more natural.
True symmetry is hardly ever found in nature, but (most) people seem to have an inbuilt urge to impose it on everything... and look for patterns to make sense of things... and if you are doing an artistic imitation of nature you need a strategy to help you resist this inbuilt tendency.
That picture doesn't bother me much, but then all the pictures in my house hang crooked.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It's interesting in gardening, that one technique for planting bulbs, is to take a handful and throw them onto the ground, and then plant them where they land.
The idea is that if you go round planting them one by one, the effect will be too regular and therefore unnatural, but I've never actually compared the two methods.
But then in England there is the 'military' style of gardening, where flowers are actually in stiff rows. Terrible.
-------------------- I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by lilBuddha: Because the artists is stating they are perfect. Conceited at the very least.
Not really. It's simply that art and artifice can give the illusion of regularity, especially from a distance. So you can introduce a deliberate error.
Thus, most people see this design as very regular, although there is an error in it.
http://www.geometricdesign.co.uk/images/illumination1.jpg [ 11. October 2013, 15:42: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
-------------------- I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
quote: posted by quetzalcoatl But then in England there is the 'military' style of gardening, where flowers are actually in stiff rows. Terrible.
Agreed - it is terrible.
Our village has an annual gardens competition, and every year the same garden gets second prize:
It is a hellish mixture of salvias, pelargoniums and other bedding plants, all planted in military rows. It also boasts a small ornamental wheelbarrow (usually filled with a mixture of clashing petunias) and several window boxes with trailing lobelia and more petunias.
And the grass! I've actually seen the guy tidying the grass with a pair of scissors
As I say, always second prize
-------------------- Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
But then the traditional cottage style is much less tidy. I tend to follow that, and go out of my way to avoid symmetry. For example, when I prune trees and bushes, I usually leave in place some imbalance which has naturally occurred, for example, a tree or bush leaning over a bit. We also have loads of untidy corners, piles of wood, and so on, partly for wildlife, but also for my sanity. A corner full of nettles is very pleasing really, also full of butterflies. I have a brilliant dwarf silver birch, which has grown completely oddly and at strange angles, I call it a baroque tree.
-------------------- I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
A person I know made art, where every piece consisted of two drawings made up of lines, with exactly one assymetry between the drawing on the left and the drawing on the right.
After drawing 100+ of these, they had to put him in an asylum.
-------------------- I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
There was a birthday card - we gave it to my Dad - of a chap standing like a sergeant-major (possibly in uniform) shouting at his row of tulips.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by quetzalcoatl: quote: Originally posted by lilBuddha: Because the artists is stating they are perfect. Conceited at the very least.
Not really. It's simply that art and artifice can give the illusion of regularity, especially from a distance. So you can introduce a deliberate error.
This might be why deliberate errors are actually introduced, but this does not apply to the myth of creating a flaw so not to offend God.
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
But then in England there is the 'military' style of gardening, where flowers are actually in stiff rows. Terrible.
We like to think of those as French-style gardens.
Seriously though the pseudo-natural style of planting and also the "cottage garden" were popularised in Europe from England in the 18th century. Other countries tended to have more formal symmetrical designs.
-------------------- Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
What LB said! It's arrogant to ever think that your own quilt, rug or asphalt design might be so perfect as to rival God.
Yes, faults like the one in the picture bothered me, and I understand and use the odd number principle in things like flower arrangements but, tiles aren't flowers. Being a neat and tidy person I also like my table settings with the silver edges all lined up and I find that things like equal numbers of objects on each side of the fireplace mantle are more pleasing to my eye.
I once watched an Oprah show about home decorating, after which I angled my sofa and threw my accent pillows at different angles. A few weeks later I realized that I wasn't sleeping well and Oprah hadn't stopped by anyway so I straightened everything out.
I say, do what makes you happy.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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OddJob
Shipmate
# 17591
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Posted
The image annoys me, but not due to asymmetry. More because a worker appears to have deliberately abused their position at public expense.
That said, I dislike asymmetry such as in the placement of some Italian car front number plates, which suggest a lack of forethought rather than creativity. Or the WW2 Blohm & Voss aircraft, which Hitler refused the Luftwaffe to own due fly due to its asymmetrical appearance.
In my working life, architect colleagues regard me as a philistine for preferring symmetrical buildings, which they and town planners regard as a product of a mind devoid of creativity. But then I do buy clothes from M&S.
We're not abnormal though - studies have shown that most people regard a symmetrical human face as more attractive than an imbalanced one.
Posts: 97 | From: West Midlands | Registered: Mar 2013
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
I don't think the issue there is symmetry really so much as 1 small thing being glaringly out of place, yeah, much to my surprise I find it a bit annoying. I have a bathroom tile pattern that consists of 4 same colour but different "finish" tiles arranged asymmetrically/randomly on the bathroom floor and I like the randomness but 1 tile being out of place within a regular pattern is disturbing. YMMV.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by lilBuddha: Because the artists is stating they are perfect. Conceited at the very least.
Can't see it.
quote: This might be why deliberate errors are actually introduced, but this does not apply to the myth of creating a flaw so not to offend God.
I didn't say "offend" God. You're extrapolating without justification.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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argona
Shipmate
# 14037
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by OddJob: The image annoys me, but not due to asymmetry. More because a worker appears to have deliberately abused their position at public expense.
Pleasingly subversive to me, suggesting a sense of humour. C'mon, the pavement works fine, nobody will trip over anything.
I'm inconsistent with symmetry. The driving mirror and satnav have to be dead level. If I scratch myself, I want to scratch the other side too. But then I always wear odd ear-rings, never want the same each side.
I heard an evolutionary psychologist say we're fascinated by symmetry because, in a state of nature, anything symmetrical is either something you can eat, or something that might eat you.
Posts: 327 | From: Oriental dill patch? (4,7) | Registered: Aug 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Bilateral symmetry is the basic body plan of almost all animals. David Attenborough was pointing this out to me earlier this week.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Jane R: ... That picture doesn't bother me much, but then all the pictures in my house hang crooked.
Mine too - our house is (relatively) old, wooden, on an almost vertical hill and has no right angles whatsoever. If the horizontals of our pictures are straight, the verticals won't be. Normally it would bother me, but I've got used to it.
As for the paving stone, I'd probably only notice it if I walked the same piece of road regularly; after walking to school every day for 13 years, I knew every broken or crooked flagstone from home to the school gates.
-------------------- I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander. alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by orfeo: Bilateral symmetry is the basic body plan of almost all animals. David Attenborough was pointing this out to me earlier this week.
This makes sense. Most cultures find beautiful many things which are not symmetrical, but they are not, typically, animals. Perhaps this has something to do with efficient locomotion. The list of Asymmetrical animals is small and the asymmetry does not affect movement.
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by lilBuddha: Perhaps this has something to do with efficient locomotion.
Well, yes in a sense, because his point was that once you start moving it begins to make sense to have a defined front end or 'head', and then put a mouth there and sensory organs to go with it, and then you have a tail end as well and lots of other bits can get added to the sections in between in convenient places.
And the earliest animals DIDN'T move, apparently. That was a new one to me, because we associate animals with movement and plants with staying still. [ 12. October 2013, 01:35: Message edited by: orfeo ]
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by orfeo: And the earliest animals DIDN'T move, apparently. That was a new one to me, because we associate animals with movement and plants with staying still.
Barnacles don't move. Unless the thing they're attached to moves of course.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by mousethief: quote: Originally posted by orfeo: And the earliest animals DIDN'T move, apparently. That was a new one to me, because we associate animals with movement and plants with staying still.
Barnacles don't move. Unless the thing they're attached to moves of course.
Yeah, I know there are some animals that don't move, but we tend to think of them as unusual, the exception. What struck me was that initially it was the norm.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I guess maybe it's because I spent a lot of time around docks and boats, but it makes perfect sense to me. Back in the primordial soup days, there was presumably food (plants) floating around everywhere, and an animal could just sit in one place and eat it as it goes by -- like a barnacle, or coral, or sea quills, or anemone, and so on.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
From what the show was telling me, more 'absorb' than 'eat', because these things didn't have mouths. [ 12. October 2013, 02:15: Message edited by: orfeo ]
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Many Navajo weavers introduce spirit lines into their rugs and blankets. The belief is that completing a design totally surrounded by an unbroken border may trap the weaver's spirit and imagination in the piece. Making a discreet weft line the color of the inner design leading through the border to the edge is a path for the spirit to escape.
-------------------- "Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by mousethief: quote: Originally posted by orfeo: And the earliest animals DIDN'T move, apparently. That was a new one to me, because we associate animals with movement and plants with staying still.
Barnacles don't move. Unless the thing they're attached to moves of course.
Actually, they do. In their larval stage. They cease to move once they anchor. Anemones can move, as can some corals, apparently.
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
I can't say that the image annoys me as such. But I DO know that I could never do something like this - because if something is in my power to change or affect, I like it to be CORRECT and NEAT. So yes - if there are two candle on the altar, they have to be EXACTLY symmetrically positioned. We have a cross placed on a table at the west end of the church. If it gets moved away from being the dead centre of the church, it distracts me and I have to move it back to its PROPER place.
(The reason the photo doesn't annoy me is because there is nothing I can do about it. Therefore, I really don't care.)
-------------------- Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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