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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Daylight wasting
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
Can someone remind me why I now have to wake up to light when I don't need it and have darkness from 5pm when I want light?
Is it really because children in the north of Scotland can't use reflective clothing/strips and torches/lights?
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
Can someone remind me why I now have to wake up to light when I don't need it and have darkness from 5pm when I want light?
If you wish to whinge, Hell is that way ------>
Any further complaints should be addressed in that direction.
Anyway, I like it that way. I can get to the station in daylight in the morning and I like dark evenings. I do night photography and enjoy it. Night is beautiful, with amber streetlights, violet and jet shadows, silver and white lights, and things can look quite different. Shadows stand out in sharp relief, rain on a night pavement can make it come alive with colour and interest. There's quite a lot to see if you look for it.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Research has been around for at least 2 decades to show that if there is a choice between going to work in the dark or coming home in the dark, the first option is preferable because people are more alert at the beginning of the day, whereas after a long working day they are more likely to lose concentration and thus there will be more accidents.
In the UK this was borne out when we had the couple of years without the clocks going back and the overall accident rate fell.
However, none of this cuts any ice with the Scots, who insist that its unreasonable to expect them and, particularly, their children to wait until 10am for daylight.
And of course, more daylight at the end of the day would give more opportunity for after-school sport which might also enable children in areas with high obesity rates to burn off some calories - again, not popular in the home of the deep-fried Mars bar.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
So, do we have any remarks on G*MT that are not merely Scots-bashing?
*that'll be Greenwich, not Greenock.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
Can someone advise the official reasoning?
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I'm sure Google will be able to help you there.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Time zones were established to allow for commerce and communication. As daylight moves and varies by latitude, no scheme will be perfect. Daylight savings schemes were introduced to save power by reducing the need for incandescent lighting.
Answer your question, NJA?
Btw, L'organist , it is the Midlands not Scotland, who have the, erm, largest issues.
[ 27. October 2013, 17:49: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
However, none of this cuts any ice with the Scots, who insist that its unreasonable to expect them and, particularly, their children to wait until 10am for daylight.
Erm, seems pretty reasonable to me.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Reasonable?
The plain fact is its the LATITUDE of places in Scotland that makes the difference.
Edinburgh is further north than Moscow and Copenhagen - its a full 11 degrees further north than St Petersburg.
Plain fact is, the further north (or south) you go the shorter your days in winter.
Because children are at school from (roughly) 8.45 to 3.30 each day it would mean they would actually get some proper daylight if we didn't put our clocks back.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
Can someone advise the official reasoning?
Well the first thing to note is that it's the Summer time that's odd. In Winter Midday is Midday.
The second thing to note is our times are out of whack (e.g. 9-5 and then you start doing stuff)*. At some points this means you need the lights on, despite also being asleep when it's light (i.e. summer). At other points you're only moving daylight during the waking hours (i.e. winter).
The trigger was that in WW1 we (well the Germans first) couldn't afford to use fuel (if modern)/stop working (if traditional). After that we liked it, as can be seen that it's putting the clocks 'right' that is challenged.
*one could speculate on the reasons for this, in my opinion it does suggest we need(ed) lighter mornings more than lighter evenings (if we can only have one).
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I've looked up the sunrise and sunset times for Aberdeen on December 21st. As a middling sort of example, and the worst case day length. The sun is above the horizon - barring landscape and other obstacles - from 8.45 to 3.28. Thus, with GMT, the whole school day is in daylight, but with travel times during twilight, which would be about 3 quarters of an hour. Moving the clock forward would mean more travel in the morning before twilight, but only give an hour of daylight, with the sun very low in the sky, for any activities after school. And that's assuming a flat environment, which Scotland is not.
The equivalent times for today are daylight from 7.08 to 4.35. Obviously keeping those an hour on would give more time after school for a while.
Norway puts its clocks back for winter.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Mostly Harmless
Apprentice
# 17684
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Posted
NJA may "wake up to light when I don't need it" but I find I can't routinely get out of bed in the dark so I do need it. Also am much more alert in the evenings even when it is dark. So fully in favour of keeping things as they are.
Posts: 3 | Registered: May 2013
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Hello and welcome, Mostly Harmless! I hope you'll have fun looking around and enjoy your time on the boards!
Please take a few minutes to read the guidelines at the top of each board, as each board has a different "flavour". You'd be most welcome to drop over to the Introductions thread where you can tell us a little about yourself (if you like to) and people will give you a welcome.
Cheers
Ariel
Heaven Host
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
Can someone remind me why I now have to wake up to light when I don't need it
I will still be waking in the dark. If you want to wake in the dark too I recommend that you move 200 miles north.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
The state should stop nannying us and fiddling with the clocks altogether. Just stick to GMT all year and let people decide for themselves when to get up in the morning.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The state should stop nannying us and fiddling with the clocks altogether. Just stick to GMT all year and let people decide for themselves when to get up in the morning.
I've found that it's only since I retired that I've had that privilege. Quite a few jobs come with inflexi time.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Francophile
Shipmate
# 17838
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Posted
Iceland doesn't fiddle about with the clocks. With only about 3 hours daylight at midwinter, I suppose it doesn't matter whether it's light from 11.30am to 2.30pm (as now) or 10.30am to 1.30pm.
Posts: 243 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2013
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Iceland doesn't fiddle about with the clocks. With only about 3 hours daylight at midwinter, I suppose it doesn't matter whether it's light from 11.30am to 2.30pm (as now) or 10.30am to 1.30pm.
Maybe Comet can explain why Alaska does go to Daylight Savings Time when they have close to 24 hours of sun in the summer and of darkness in the winter.
(I'm happy to say that Arizona stays on Standard Time all year. When the sun sets earlier in the summer it cools off a bit making outdoor activities a little more bearable.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The state should stop nannying us and fiddling with the clocks altogether. Just stick to GMT all year and let people decide for themselves when to get up in the morning.
We're talking about that small island off the northern coast of France right? It would be better for business in the UK if they retired the GMT time zone and used CET (that's UTC+0100) in line with the rest of Europe.
If a bunch of Scots don't like it, they have their own devolved assembly which can vote to use a UTC+0000 time zone, maybe called Scotland-Hebrides International Time instead of the English-based GMT, and have people change their clocks at the border. Then they'll be twenty years and one hour behind instead of just twenty years.
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I don't care what time it goes dark or comes light.
Just leave the clocks ALONE!
We have perfectly good street lights and car lights. Small children will be kept safe by adults and older children by road safety education, not by messing with the clocks. Just set it and leave it - GMT BST SMP BLT, I do not care. If Scotland want to change their clocks to mess about with when it's dark - let them have a different time zone, change the clocks at the border.
I am an early riser. Once awake I can't sleep or snooze - so here I am, wide awake at five AM which *was* six AMuntil this weekend and should still be six AM. I don't want to get up, my day starts at six, not five. So I'm complaining and grumbling on the Ship
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Maybe Comet can explain why Alaska does go to Daylight Savings Time when they have close to 24 hours of sun in the summer and of darkness in the winter.
the short answer is, we observe daylight saving time because the state is run by a bunch of batshit crazy morons who piss me right off and I've had it up to HERE with the whole stupidass concept which is completely goddamn pointless. I'd go on, but I might get hellish.
however, I do need to clarify before I give the "official" reasoning behind it.
Alaska is a big place. seriously, bigger than many countries. roll your globe around and take a look. The Arctic Circle is the line where they get one 24 hour day of sunlight in the summer solstice, and one day where the sun doesn't peek above the horizon on the winter solstice. the Arctic Circle is at Lat67. That's way up there, north of Fairbanks. For every place below that line, the 24 hour darkness/light thing is a myth. this includes most of the state, and population wise, I'd guess something like 90% of the state. further, I have heard people say that we get "6 months of daylight and 6 months of darkness" unless you are actually, physically ON one of the poles, this is physically impossible. it's a gradual process, just like everywhere else. I spent a year on the Arctic Ocean coast. We had about a month of the sun not coming above the horizon in the winter. Barrow (up there at the top) gets about six weeks. I currently live just shy of Lat60. this puts me equivalent to Helsinki and Oslo and Stockholm and Saint Petersburg, and a tad bit north of Inverness. Which is really quite southerly in Alaska terms. I'm down here in the banana belt of the state. in the winter we get about 4 hours of daylight, in the summer we have about 6 weeks of daylight, although the sun always does actually go down below the horizon for a bit each day.
sorry - the daylight thing really drives me batshit, I HAD to clarify. *breathe* I'm good now. no, really.
*breathe*
so, as to why we observe daylight savings - my state leadership is full of idiots. When I was growing up, we had 4 time zones. that is what actually matches with how wide we are. it makes sense. but somewhere in there we all switched to Juneau time "for the sake of commerce" so they piled all of us into one timezone. which means, if you live all the way out in Attu, solar noon is at some stupid time like 4 or 5 in the afternoon. WTF? and our observance of DST is the same principal, only even more bizarre - so we can somehow manage to do business with the rest of the world. because they're all doing it, then obviously so should we. Which places like AZ and HI have already proven is a fallacy. look at all of the people who refuse to bring their tourism business to Hawaii because they don't observe DST!
The whole thing really pisses me off. as might be a teensy bit obvious.
But boy, one time you show up late for work telling them you're boycotting the DST and it really doesn't go over well.
trust me.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
We're talking about that small island off the northern coast of France right? It would be better for business in the UK if they retired the GMT time zone and used CET (that's UTC+0100) in line with the rest of Europe.
Although - on holiday in Western Brittany a couple of years ago - I found it disconcerting to be on the same longitude as Devon and Cornwall and to be on what effectively was "double daylight saving time". We got off the boat just before 7 and drove to the nearest large town (Morlaix) expecting that the place would be buzzing and the little cafes humming at 8 am. Instead the whole place was just beginning to rub its eyes and wake up.
It's a bit bizarre that France should be in the same time zone as (say) Berlin ... but it is a good argument for Britain going over the continental time.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
The clocks going back actually did some good - the stork hit most of SE England a 6:30-7:15am before rush hour really got going with kids.
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
The clocks going back actually did some good - the stork hit most of SE England a 6:30-7:15am before rush hour really got going with kids.
With the stork hitting can we expect to see the rush hour getting going with kids in the next few days? Or is it nine months from now? Never really worked out how the stork worked.
Regarding joining European time for the sake of business, it would be a bit odd if the UK did that while Spain went the other way and joined Ireland and Portugal on GMT.
BBC link
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Rant, Racism and Grumble - not just a firm of solicitors, but the predominant tone of this thread.
Awa' tae Hell.
Firenze
Heaven Host
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Hello possums.
orfeo
Hellhost
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I'm just north of Aberdeen. In Victorian times, the school day used to shift - children went in an hour later and left an hour later in winter. I suspect that would be a childcare nightmare, though.
Originally posted by L'organist:
quote:
In the UK this was borne out when we had the couple of years without the clocks going back and the overall accident rate fell.
Was that in 1969? Scotland saw an increase in accidents and deaths.
I think part of the problem for commuters here is not so much the dark, but the fact that roads and pavements are more likely to be icy.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Iceland doesn't fiddle about with the clocks. With only about 3 hours daylight at midwinter, I suppose it doesn't matter whether it's light from 11.30am to 2.30pm (as now) or 10.30am to 1.30pm.
Indeed, and this why I get narked that we fiddle around with the clocks here in Finland. Totally pointless. It's a waste of time and probably a waste of lots of money too.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
In the UK the logical thing would be to hand over control of Scottish clocks to the Scottish Parliament, and for the rest of the UK to pick either GMT or GMT+1 and stick to it all year round.
A halfway solution would be to at least aim for some symmetry in how we change the time. If we're going to put the clocks back on 27 October (8 weeks before solstice) then we should put them forward on 16 February (8 weeks after solstice) - so why the hell will I be spending the 5 weeks after 16 February still coming home from work in the dark?
I'll tell you why - it's because it's European. And it's only EU logic that could ever come up with the principle that if it's good for Rome, it's got to be good for Inverness.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Francophile
Shipmate
# 17838
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Posted
NEQ
The experiment with permanent BST began in the autumn of 1968 and ended in the autumn of 1971, with GMT being reverted to in late October of 1971.
I was at school in Scotland at the time and remember it well. I was in Primary 7 in 1968/69, the first year of the experiment. We were all issued with fluorescent orange arm bands and required to wear these on our hooded trenchcoats (anyone remember them?). If spotted by a teacher en route to, or arriving at, school in the morning, without displaying armbands, we were issued with a "punishment exercise". As the period of the experiment went on, the rule was relaxed (or maybe we were just getting older and the teachers didn't bother so much).
One pupil was caught trying to flush her armbands down a school toilet. Her parents were called in to see the headteacher and she was threatened with expulsion.
In midwinter, the whole journey to school was done in complete darkness, daylight appearing at some point during the first period (9am to 9.45am). It was actually quite cosy to be doing your arithmetic in the classroom with darkness outside.
I don't remember being aware of longer daylight in the afternoons, but that was probably just me.
[ 28. October 2013, 13:24: Message edited by: Francophile ]
Posts: 243 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2013
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
There is a reason for not having a symmetry in the dates of clock changing - or I assume so. The changes in day length are themselves not symmetrical.
For instance, where I live, sunrise on the winter solstice, 21st December this year, is at 8:01. But this is not the latest the sun rises. That is 8:04, and occurs between the 27th December and 2nd January. It doesn't rise at 8:01 again until 9th and 10th January. Meanwhile, sunset on the solstice is at 15:53, but the earliest sunset is 15:50, which occurs between 11th and 14th December, with the same time as the solstice occurring on the 2nd and 3rd December.
Which makes one wonder about the geometry of Stonehenge, Maes Howe, New Grange and so on.
The variation is called the Equation of Time, which produces a diagram called the Analemma, sometimes seen on globes. We used to have one in our playground on a sundial which used children as gnomons.
Things are less peculiar in summer, when the Earth is further from the Sun, and thus moving more slowly. The variation is due to the combination of the ellipse of the orbit and the angle of the Earth's axis.
However, the assymmetry isn't as extreme, even so, as the dates of Summer Time. Maybe they are also linked to temperature, and/or agricultural activities.
[ 28. October 2013, 14:13: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
My husband remembers it, Francophile; I don't but then I only lived two houses away from the school.
Our school bus pick-up is at 8am, kids here are heading towards the bus stop from 7.45 on. It would be odd to think of them setting off two hours before dawn, but I suppose they do that in other parts of the world. It's the challenge of getting the roads / pavements gritted before the morning commute that concerns me.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Thanks for the asymmetry explanation, but it still doesn't tell me why GMT lasts until the end of March but starts only at the end of October(?)
[ 28. October 2013, 14:22: Message edited by: Matt Black ]
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
The Equation of Time accounts for variations between solar and clock time owing to the Earth's orbit being elliptical (Kepler's 3rd Law and all that). But it only accounts for about +/- 15mins at its maximum.
But the October-March assymetry is a lot more than that. Here's the length of day (sunrise-sunset) for Manchester 2013-2014:
Last day of BST (26 Oct): 9hrs 51mins
My proposed first day of BST: 9hrs 55 mins
Actual first day of BST: 12hrs 52mins.
Having the change at the assymetrical time extends the "feeling" of winter - dark afternoons and evenings - for weeks longer than is actually needed (if the change is needed at all, which it isn't, really, south of Berwick).
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
So why the fuck do we extend the Spring change, year after year?
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
So why the fuck do we extend the Spring change, year after year?
Because the EU say so, and the UK government always does what the EU says, because it makes UK people grumble about the EU more than they grumble about Westminster.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The state should stop nannying us and fiddling with the clocks altogether. Just stick to GMT all year and let people decide for themselves when to get up in the morning.
We're talking about that small island off the northern coast of France right? It would be better for business in the UK if they retired the GMT time zone and used CET (that's UTC+0100) in line with the rest of Europe.
So it was about safety, and now its about business? Bollocks! Its just a bunch of interfering busybodies who get their rocks off by giving orders and think it does the lower classes good to be forced out of bed early.
quote:
If a bunch of Scots don't like it, they have their own devolved assembly which can vote to use a UTC+0000 time zone, maybe called Scotland-Hebrides International Time instead of the English-based GMT, and have people change their clocks at the border. Then they'll be twenty years and one hour behind instead of just twenty years.
So bereft of any real defence for your desire to control the lives of others, you revert to snide insults about Scotland?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
I wish we'd stay on summer time all year. I couldn't care less about dark mornings, as I never do anything other than get up and go to work in the morning anyway, but lighter evenings when I may actually want to do something would be awesome.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
You'd have a lot of light time after work in December, with sunset at ten to fivish for most of the month. (Time adjusted for BST from that given above.)
Adeodatus - I started on the assymetry before realising how different October and March were. I do suspect a farming connection, now, with light evenings until harvest was definitely gathered in, and not bothering to get them in spring until the soil heated up. I wonder if anyone can find out what the original thinking was.
[ 28. October 2013, 16:44: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
So why the fuck do we extend the Spring change, year after year?
Because the EU say so, and the UK government always does what the EU says, because it makes UK people grumble about the EU more than they grumble about Westminster.
That's bollocks. You've been reading the Telegraph ("if it's bad it must be from the EU") so much you're starting to believe it. Britain first flirted with daylight saving in 1916 and brought it in in its present form before it joined the EEC. Until 2000 most EU countries shifted their clocks in September. Then they aligned themselves with the UK with its October shift. Rome slavishly following London's lead.
I'm with Marvin on this. Just when the evenings start closing in early the authorities step in and say they have to get dark even earlier still. Where's the fun in that?
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
So why the fuck do we extend the Spring change, year after year?
Because the EU say so, and the UK government always does what the EU says, because it makes UK people grumble about the EU more than they grumble about Westminster.
I'm with Jonah - I'm sure the discrepancy pre-dates our joining the Common Market(?) If it's down to farming, surely the time has come to scrap it, given that only about a handful of people are still engaged in agriculture in this country, and if they want to get up or go to bed at weird hours compared to the rest of us, well good luck to them!
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
So why the fuck do we extend the Spring change, year after year?
Because the EU say so, and the UK government always does what the EU says, because it makes UK people grumble about the EU more than they grumble about Westminster.
I'm with Jonah - I'm sure the discrepancy pre-dates our joining the Common Market(?) If it's down to farming, surely the time has come to scrap it, given that only about a handful of people are still engaged in agriculture in this country, and if they want to get up or go to bed at weird hours compared to the rest of us, well good luck to them!
I believe it has its origins in World War One, so yes, if you want to blame Europe, feel free.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Given that many services operate a seasonal timetable (e.g buses, trains) - why can't we just operate a seasonal timetable ?
There is nothing to actually stop Scotland choosing to open its schools 10am to 4pm and stay on GMT. Likewise the rest of the country.
Why can't we just be on GMT, and then open stuff when we need it to be open ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Mostly Harmless
Apprentice
# 17684
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Posted
Why not just put the clocks back by an hour each time. Extra hour in bed twice a year, and it'll really confuse the rest of the world when we start going to wrok at what for them is 3.00 am.
Posts: 3 | Registered: May 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Why not just put your clock on whatever time you want? THAT will show those government busybodies.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I say we go back to matins and lauds, prime, tierce, sext, nones, vespers, and compline.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
There's a secondary school which runs on a late start because research shows that teenage brains are reorganising themselves and need to lie in.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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JonahMan
Shipmate
# 12126
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Posted
And stop blaming the Scots. I've never heard anyone here comment one way or the other about BST or GMT. It's always been put down to farmers; I just can't see why they can't get up at different times at different times of the year, just like farmers all over the world. It's not like cows have got alarm clocks or anything.
I (living in Scotland) would prefer to stick to whatever saves the most energy and results in fewest traffic accidents.
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Thank God for the aged
And old age itself, and illness and the grave
For when you're old, or ill and particularly in the coffin
It's no trouble to behave
Posts: 914 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Dec 2006
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
We're talking about that small island off the northern coast of France right? It would be better for business in the UK if they retired the GMT time zone and used CET (that's UTC+0100) in line with the rest of Europe.
Although - on holiday in Western Brittany a couple of years ago - I found it disconcerting to be on the same longitude as Devon and Cornwall and to be on what effectively was "double daylight saving time". We got off the boat just before 7 and drove to the nearest large town (Morlaix) expecting that the place would be buzzing and the little cafes humming at 8 am. Instead the whole place was just beginning to rub its eyes and wake up.
It's a bit bizarre that France should be in the same time zone as (say) Berlin ... but it is a good argument for Britain going over the continental time.
Sounds to me like a good argument for France adopting GMT...
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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