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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: All Souls' Day
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
What plans do fellow shipmates have to mark All Souls this year? Because it falls on Saturday my local parish has decided to have a Sung Eucharist a couple of days earlier. Perhaps understandably the day it is observed seems to vary slightly depending on local custom.
I wasn't there last year but discovered that my suburban parish were expecting around 40 or so to attend, but in fact there were 150 in attendance and 120 communicants. It seems to have grown both in observance and in popularity.
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
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NatDogg
Shipmate
# 14347
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Posted
I agree. The observation has grown in recent years. In my middle-of-the-road Episcopal place it has really blossomed.
Quick question for shipmates: what is the appropriate liturgical color for the observance? We don't have a black set. What? Violet? We'll have incense and all appropriate ceremony.
Posts: 139 | Registered: Dec 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Same as always:
Proper Requiem mass using the setting by Gabriel Faure.
The fact that "the day" is a Saturday just means (a) we can have the service earlier and (b) we may get an even larger congregation than usual.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NatDogg:
I agree. The observation has grown in recent years. In my middle-of-the-road Episcopal place it has really blossomed.
Quick question for shipmates: what is the appropriate liturgical color for the observance? We don't have a black set. What? Violet? We'll have incense and all appropriate ceremony.
I have usually seen purple. I would be interested to read what ceremonial you use?
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
The current Roman Missal directs violet for All Souls (and black, violet or white for funerals), but those of us who use the Extraordinary Form use black for All Souls Day. At the end of Mass we do the absolution of the dead, complete with catafalque--pretty much the same ceremony as is used at any funeral Mass. We have a Solemn Requiem Mass with deacon and subdeacon. We usually have an evening Mass, just as we do the day before, but since it falls on a Saturday, we do make the regulat 9AM Low Mass a High Mass.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I think we're having a Mass (probably with hymns and incense) at our usual Saturday time of 930am. Names will be read out, of course.
This service doesn't count as our Memorial Service - you know, the non-Eucharistic liturgy that many churches now celebrate around November for the families of those whose funerals with which the priest and parish have been involved over the past year. IYSWIM.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NatDogg:
Quick question for shipmates: what is the appropriate liturgical color for the observance? We don't have a black set. What? Violet? We'll have incense and all appropriate ceremony.
"Dark" vestments like violet (or conceivably, a very deep navy blue) would be the next best choice in the absence of black. (And the first choice when a Requiem is celebrated before the Exposed Sacrament in the course of the 40 Hours' Devotion, aren't you glad to know).
Curiously, our habit seems to be to use black for the "general" requiem on All Souls, but white for those celebrated as the funerals of individuals. We will keep it on Saturday, but the prayer book rubric allows the "Commemoration All the Faithful Departed" to be kept on any day within the Octave of All Saints, and I have seen pretty broad variation in the scheduling. (In Toronto, for instance, the cathedral's requiem at St James the Less is always the Saturday nearest).
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
My church will be keeping All Saints and All Souls combined on Sunday 3rd.
In our church we do the same, Leo: white vestments for All Saints. After the Eucharist we sing a hymn to the saints while the sanctuary part leave, lighted candles are given to everyone while the clergy change into black vestments, and then we do the Commemoration of the Departed.
Different, but people find it expressive in meeting spiritual/emotional needs.
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
You can surely be cut some slack for making the occasional unusual liturgical choice, given the work you have cut out for you in partibus infidelium!
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Steve_R
Shipmate
# 61
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Posted
Unfortunately I do have a problem with All Souls Day. Really the problem stems from my daughter. Many years ago as members of the choir we attended our All Souls Day service (Rachael being 9 or 10 at the time) during which the names of the departed were read out. At this point the church suffered a power cut and the names had to be read out by candlelight. The mains powered smoke detector in the kitchen, however, started to beep, lacking power. Thus we get "name, beep, name, beep, name, beep, ..." Rachael was so freaked out by this that she swore never to attend another All Souls service, ... ever! Nor have I since!
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Love and Kisses, Steve_R
Posts: 990 | From: East Sussex | Registered: May 2001
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
Black vestments, American Missal, ceremonial according to Lamburn insofar as it's possible. I hope to have one of the choristers to serve as cantor so I don't have to carry the minor propers & sequence by myself, but we'll see...
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
Umm...so you are moving it to the nearest Sunday or your website needs updating?
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboi:
quote:
I have usually seen purple. I would be interested to read what ceremonial you use?
Fortescue ceremonial. American Missal. Black vestments, and our most previous chalice, which we only use on All Souls' Day. Our choir is singing the Mozart requiem this year, complete with orchestra.
How lovely. St Paul's Cathedral (where I went last year) used the Mozart requiem with Orchestra, and though I think I prefer Victoria's setting for liturgical use, it was still a stunning service.
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
I truly don't wish to turn this in a direction intended for purgatory (ironic nomenclature for a thread about All Souls Day). However, it interests me to read about the growth of All Souls Day outside of the RCC (and missal ACs, who subscribe to a good deal of RC theology, anyway). Even more baffling to me is learning of churches who combine All Saints and All Souls, which while obviously related to each other, have their own distinctive liturgical, theological and devotional purposes.
Hearing that some venues use various requiem musical settings, I wonder if any of these include the antiphons from the Mass texts of the day. These make so clear the belief in purgatory, though that word itself is not used. Raised as an Anglican, I am aware of the tradition of the intermediate state, which really began to take hold after the First World War, when praying for the dead grew in popularity in the C of E. I am also aware that most Anglicans prior to that, and a good number still today, do not accept the existence of an intermediate state, and especially not the concept that our prayers in this world may help them attain the Beatific Vision sooner rather than later. As a missal-toting AC, I essentially believed in the traditional RC understanding of Masses for the Dead, which make this clear. However, I know that these All Souls Day remembrances often consist of recalling the names of faithful departed, rather than actually praying for their deliverance into heaven.
In the USA, the 1928 BCP kalendar does not include All Souls Day, and not even the 1963 edition of Lesser Feasts and Fasts mentions it. However, many AC shacks used texts of the Anglican or American Missals to various degrees, and these included Requiem Masses in general and All Souls Day in particular. Practices ranged from praying for the departed souls to see the light of Christ in heaven to the still widely popular St. Augustine's Prayer Book published by the Order of the Holy Cross, which actually uses the p-word. The 1979 American BCP provides for All Souls Day, but the prayers are classic exercises in vague theology so common to Anglicanism in general, i.e., each school of thought may not only interpret the texts to support its own beliefs, but also to specifically exclude those of the other camps. Thus, TEC includes those who hold not only New Age afterlife tenets, but also those who hold both traditional Catholic and Protestant views, which on the subject of the p-word are rather mutually exclusive. The former sees a need--indeed, an obligation--to pray for the departed souls to enter heaven, while the latter says that souls are already either damned or saved, and our prayers on earth cannot change that. This situation grows murkier when one sees such observances in other denominations, ones that do not even have the same High/Low praxes that Anglicanism has.
I realize that there are also social celebrations of the Day of the Dead that are almost completely divorced from Christian contexts, but for now these are outside the scope of my musings. There are many areas in which a seemingly contradictory range of beliefs exists within Anglicamism, but prayers for departed, be they at funerals or on All Souls Day, so touch the day-to-day practice of the average person, as to make my mind (admittedly soaked in RC teachings for so many years) unable to grasp this pick-and-choose approach to something that will inevitably affect each of us. I do hope that this is both clear and nonpolemic. ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
There are two reasons why some us combine All Sts and All Souls:
1) Practical - sadly, people don't tend to come to church on two consecutive weekdays.
2) Theological - blurring the distinction between saints and souls. We don't know who is which so we combine them and both thank, pray for them and seek their intercessions.
Many on my personal 'dead list' who I bring to mass every ear at this time have been saints to me e.g. the priest who 'converted' and baptised me, the teacher who inspired me....
[ 12. October 2013, 17:49: Message edited by: leo ]
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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
My choir is teaming with the Cathedral's choir for a concert on Saturday and the Cathedral's traditional afternoon Requiem mass on Sunday afternoon. Requiem setting by Durufle.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
I truly don't wish to turn this in a direction intended for purgatory (ironic nomenclature for a thread about All Souls Day). However, it interests me to read about the growth of All Souls Day outside of the RCC (and missal ACs, who subscribe to a good deal of RC theology, anyway).
Even weirder, it's part of the LCMS calendar, but not the ELCA. Go figure.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
We're having Low Mass at 7 a.m. on All Saints' Day, a Solemn Requiem at 10 a.m. on All Souls' Day, and a Solemn Procession and High Mass at 11 a.m. on the Sunday After All Saints' Day (permitted by our BCP).
The long list of names of the departed, submitted by parishioners and friends of the parish, will be read out at the Solemn Requiem. Black vestments, unbleached candles, catafalque.
[ 13. October 2013, 00:18: Message edited by: Oblatus ]
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Vulpior
Foxier than Thou
# 12744
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Posted
All Saints is our title, so we will be marking the feast on the Sunday. All Souls will then follow on the Monday. Evening requiem, Mozart last year. I'm not involved enough to be prescient of the details of this year.
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I've started blogging. I don't promise you'll find anything to interest you at uncleconrad
Posts: 946 | From: Mount Fairy, NSW | Registered: Jun 2007
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
Umm...so you are moving it to the nearest Sunday or your website needs updating?
Who, me?
I never transfer things to Sunday. Well, except maybe for the feast of title. But I hate the practice of transferring, say, Epiphany or Ascension to the nearest Sunday. In any case, I don't think it's allowed to say a Requiem Mass on Sunday, and that's essentially what the Commemoration of All Souls is.
Assuming you were referring to my parish's website, that was hacked and now a very generic placeholder is up at the address while we work out a newer look & feel.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
We will have All Saints' on the Friday evening with solemn mass Victoria O Quam Gloriosum, All Souls' on Saturday morning with solemn mass singing the Mozart Requiem with orchestra. Sunday will be the whatever Sunday after Pentecost.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
Umm...so you are moving it to the nearest Sunday or your website needs updating?
Who, me?
I never transfer things to Sunday. Well, except maybe for the feast of title. But I hate the practice of transferring, say, Epiphany or Ascension to the nearest Sunday. In any case, I don't think it's allowed to say a Requiem Mass on Sunday, and that's essentially what the Commemoration of All Souls is.
Assuming you were referring to my parish's website, that was hacked and now a very generic placeholder is up at the address while we work out a newer look & feel.
Understood. If you don't mind posting somewhere the Mass time I'll make an effort to attend, provided I can get a radiator fixed before then or can beg, borrow or steal other transportation.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
We will have All Saints' on the Friday evening with solemn mass Victoria O Quam Gloriosum, All Souls' on Saturday morning with solemn mass singing the Mozart Requiem with orchestra. Sunday will be the whatever Sunday after Pentecost.
How accurate. I wish more were able to observe on the days themselves.
I guess its an issue about who will turn out when.
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http://dsa.ebay.co.uk/sch/surtees5/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686
Indeed. Whenever we try a Sung Eucharist on Saturday no more than 35 will come, whereas attendance at midweek services for feast days will be at least three times that number. We tried to ascertain why but to no avail!
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
One tradition (you know how things become a tradition? you do it for three years and it becomes a tradition) is to light votive candles just before the prayer of the church. Then when we go into the Eucharist the pastor makes a comment about how we join all the faithful departed in this feast that has no end.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Peregrinus Balticus
Apprentice
# 14728
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Posted
Worshipping in a drastically different ecclesiastical context than most Shipmates means that our solutions will probably seem very odd to other Threadfellows, but anyway:
Basic context: We are an English-language ecumenical congregation in Finland, resourced as outreach activity by the local Lutheran parishes, but also collaborating with the Anglican Chaplaincy (as parishes are called within the C of E's Diocese in Europe), based 160 km away in Helsinki. In addition to the Anglican Chaplain [=parish priest] in Helsinki, we have several Finnish Lutheran clergy more locally who also have Anglican PtO's [Permission to Officiate wearing an Anglican hat, as it were – a Canterbury cap?]. Here we see the Porvoo Agreement functioning well.
In Finland / in Finnish Lutheranism, All Saints and All Souls have become inextricably fused, with the name referencing All Saints (Pyhäinpäivä, 'Saints' Day') but with the stronger emphasis on remembering the departed from one's own family. It's a big event, a public holiday, always celebrated on the Saturday nearest 1 November; as darkness falls, every cemetery will be a sea of commemorative candles which people place on the graves of their loved ones; and in many cemeteries there will be one location where those whose family graves are elsewhere can light a candle, so that can end up with a hundred or more. It's beautiful and impressive practice, even if its theology has inevitably become very blurred.
So this year, Pyhäinpäivä falls on Saturday 2.11., and every Lutheran church will have memorial services which are usually packed full. There is no way that our international congregation could 'compete' with that, and it would be difficult for us even to get a venue for our own service; moreover many of our congregants will choose to attend a Lutheran service, since many of them do have Finnish family.
So in our international congregation we will celebrate All Saints at our usual Mass on the Sunday, 3.11., which wouldn't be complete without singing (as a Finnish friend called it) "Pom! For all the saints..."
However, we have also for many years held a Requiem in English on All Souls, usually for a very small gathering, but for whom it is very important. This year, we'll do that on the evening of Friday 1.11., treating that as the Eve of All Souls. It includes the reading out of the names of loved ones who have died during the preceding year, but also – at congregants' discretion, really – of loved ones who died earlier but whom they wish to remember and commemorate. I always for example list my father, who was killed in action in 1944. We usually sing a plainchant requiem setting.
Purists, ye may scoff if ye so wish; but I am extremely glad that one of our Finnish PtO's has volunteered to carry on with this tradition. And I think the idea of treating the Friday evening as All Souls' Eve is a neat solution.
Posts: 13 | From: Finland | Registered: Apr 2009
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I think it all sounds lovely Peregrinus! 'All things to all men' and all that!
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
We will have All Saints' on the Friday evening with solemn mass Victoria O Quam Gloriosum, All Souls' on Saturday morning with solemn mass singing the Mozart Requiem with orchestra. Sunday will be the whatever Sunday after Pentecost.
How accurate. I wish more were able to observe on the days themselves.
I guess its an issue about who will turn out when.
I will be observing them at home, personally, despite whatever my parish gets up to (which probably won't be much) because my cultural observance of the days is different than the predominant culture of my parish-- and even then, my culture's observance of the days focuses more on home than parish.
I'mna see if I can't sneak some marigolds into the altar flowers for the Sunday after the observances.
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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
It is treated very seriously in our church, with three services - a said Eucharist (Friday Lunchtime), one a Sung Eucharist (Friday Evening), and one a 'Lighten our Darkness' service of the word with music (Sunday Evening). At all three, names are read out from a list which people have contributed to over the last few weeks. Candles are lit in memory at the third of the services and there are refreshments, with a chance to talk to clergy and others after both evening services.
We will not be singing any special anthems, as the choir at each consists of those who are able to turn up, rather than the full choir. However, some of us will be singing at the All Souls Day Eucharist at Exeter Cathedral on the Saturday - music includes the Mass settings from the Faure Requiem and also 'Deep River' (Sephen Tanner), 'Since by Man came Death' (Handel), 'The Souls of the Righteous' (Marchant) and 'Ave Verum Corpus' (Mozart). The choir is made up of members of RSCM affiliated choirs from all over Devon.
The general public is invited to come to the service if they wish to remember departed family and friends, so if you are in the area and wish to come along to the service, it is at 4pm on 2nd November.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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S. Bacchus
Shipmate
# 17778
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Posted
We're keeping the patter that I imagine is the most typical of churches in our tradition (MOTR tending towards Catholic and more traditional than not):
Low Mass and High Mass (the latter with choir and sermon) on All Saints day, two low masses and a High Mass pro defunctis (the last with choir, sermon, and absolution of graves [taking the place of the rites at the catafalque, as we don't have one]) on All Souls. Names will be read out at all three All Souls services. We don't keep the Sunday within the octave, or the eve of All Ss, with any special ceremonies. I'm happy to say that we're still one of the few parishes that observes the normal distinctions at the requiem mass: black vestments, unbleached candles, no incense until the offertory, no blessing of water and no bells at the elevations, etc (our sacristan always reminds the servers that 'there are no osculations', but we never do those any way!). It's one of the few days a year in which we might actually pass as high church!
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'It's not that simple. I won't have it to be that simple'.
Posts: 260 | Registered: Jul 2013
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Where did the 'no incense until the offertory' rule come from? Is there a theological rationale for not censing the gospel book if you do it normally?
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Where did the 'no incense until the offertory' rule come from? Is there a theological rationale for not censing the gospel book if you do it normally?
It seems a natural way of representing the barer ceremonial appropriate to the occasion. The Offertory is the natural place for incense to reappear, since the Sacrifice must be given the greatest honour: not to incense it at an high Mass would be the wrong sort of symbol. Note also that only the celebrant is censed at the offertory, not the other ministers, so it's not really "no incense until the offerotry" so much as "incense for the Sacrifice only" (any absolutions having the character of a separate rite).
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Posts: 307 | From: North London | Registered: May 2013
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Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
We will have All Saints' on the Friday evening with solemn mass Victoria O Quam Gloriosum, All Souls' on Saturday morning with solemn mass singing the Mozart Requiem with orchestra. Sunday will be the whatever Sunday after Pentecost.
It is a very strange time to be an Anglo-Catholic in Philadelphia!
S. Mark's and Good Shepherd are both having Solemn Masses for All Saints Day, while S. Clement's is having only a Sung Mass at 5:30 p.m. in their chapel, with a cantor rather than the choir. And that only after there was much hue and cry over the originally scheduled Low Mass!
The Chinese Curse, I guess?
Posts: 371 | From: Princeton, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Where did the 'no incense until the offertory' rule come from? Is there a theological rationale for not censing the gospel book if you do it normally?
I'm sure there's all manner of theological back-explanation, but my understanding was that the requiem is a remnant of earlier forms of the Mass, and thus lacks elements added in later.
I have heard the lack of censing of the people rationalised on the grounds that no prayers for the living are offered at requiems, although IME the confession and absolution are seldom omitted when the BCP is used. Indeed in a modern context, where communicants are expected, it's not uncommon for the censing of the congregation to be retained.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
AIUI the no-censing until the offertory rule only applies to a Requiem where there is a body - in other words, a funeral: so for All Souls you can cense away as much as you like...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
AIUI the no-censing until the offertory rule only applies to a Requiem where there is a body - in other words, a funeral: so for All Souls you can cense away as much as you like...
Not in the EF. On All Souls Day there is absolution of the dead at the end, just like a funeral, and the same rules about incensations apply.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
AIUI the no-censing until the offertory rule only applies to a Requiem where there is a body - in other words, a funeral: so for All Souls you can cense away as much as you like...
Not in the EF. On All Souls Day there is absolution of the dead at the end, just like a funeral, and the same rules about incensations apply.
I think that in an EF Requiem without the Absolution (which is certainly permitted) the incensations are still as at a Requiem Mass for a funeral.
Posts: 371 | From: Princeton, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003
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Clotilde
Shipmate
# 17600
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Posted
All Souls tide is a special time for me, and I love it that in my part of the world the leaves are turning in color - to Autumn. I like to put an autumn display in my porchway around Halloween and I associate it with All Souls.
In preparation I like to make my own list of people to pray for each year - people who have died and past friends and family from the years. I don't want to add my long list to that in church but do wonder if I could somehow offer it without the names having to be prayed / read...
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Anglo Catholic Congress books on eBay. Do bid!
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A witness of female resistance
Posts: 159 | From: A man's world | Registered: Mar 2013
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Latest update: at the 'Lighten our Darkness' service of the word on Sunday evening we will be singing the 'Kyrie' and 'In Paradisum' from the Faure Requiem.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
quote:
posted by chorister
...the 'Lighten our Darkness' service of the word on ...
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
The Chinese Curse, I guess?
Okay. I'll bite: What's the Chinese Curse?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
The Chinese Curse, I guess?
Okay. I'll bite: What's the Chinese Curse?
I'm guessing "May you live during interesting times."
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Ceremoniar, I don't think a Roman understanding of purgatory is implied in Protestant celebrations of All Souls. At least some churches make it a day for praying for conversion of non-Christians. That is "all souls" comes to mean "everybody"
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Ceremoniar, I don't think a Roman understanding of purgatory is implied in Protestant celebrations of All Souls. At least some churches make it a day for praying for conversion of non-Christians. That is "all souls" comes to mean "everybody"
Well, I think that most here would agree that All Souls (known as Day of the Dead in some countries) focuses on the departed, not the conversion of living souls. That is entirely another subject, however worthy it may be.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Ceremoniar is right. That's the first time I've heard Ken's bizarre re-interpretation. (You don't need to believe 'the Romish doctrine of Purgatory'; a fuzzy Anglican one does instead. But it's about the dead not the living.)
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
quote:
posted by chorister
...the 'Lighten our Darkness' service of the word on ...
To explain, different people need different types of services. So, over the weekend, we have three services where names are read out - one a Sung Eucharist, one a said Eucharist and one a more informal service with lots of tealights which can be lit in memory of those who have died. The latter is called 'Lighten our Darkness' - it seems particularly popular with bereaved families who are not that used to church. Naturally, people are given the option of attending whichever they feel most comfortable with (bereaved families are often quite sensitive at these times).
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
As I type, we have an empty coffin in our vestry, apparently to be used at this evening's Requiem Mass. (At least, I hope it's empty. The priest assures me that it is)
I'm intrigued to see how it's going to be used.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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