quote:

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One reason, probably the greatest reason, I still go to church at all is that at a particular time of stress, I found the 8am service was a quiet space, where I was allowed to be quiet and not really interact with anyone, even God.

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I found the comment interesting, because of the surprising addition of the last two words: even God. We may think that it's a good idea to get away from human relationships in order to move closer to God, and to enrich our relationship with God. But this comment made me wonder that sometimes even our relationship with God can be stressful - or rather a wrong view of our relationship with Him. In fact, I wonder whether we should even use the word 'relationship' when referring to our connection with God, because of the baggage and the subtle rules that are implied by it.

Having been involved with Protestant evangelical Christianity for most of my life (including employment in a Christian organisation for many years), I feel spiritually burnt out, to be honest. The Christian life seems at times to be utterly exhausting - not so much physically, but psychologically: the endless meetings, which seem to lead nowhere, the sermonising, where you haven't had a chance to get your head round last week's sermon before the next one is offered up. The latest spiritual fads and techniques are a merry-go-round - usually of failure. The latest prophecy or "word from the Lord" about how this year is the "Year of such and such" within the economy of God creates a kind of inner stress to make sure that we are obeying sufficiently, so that we don't "miss the boat" and fall short of "God's plans". How we need to fervently seek Him to be part of the current "move of God" etc etc...

And then there is the great army of well meaning Christian counsellors who have their multifarious diagnoses of every conceivable spiritual condition. Frankly, one can't keep up with it all!

For someone who has suffered from mental illness and nervous problems (as I have in the past, with vestiges of it still with me in the present), such constant change is agitating. I can understand why some people just want to go and sit in a large cathedral and spend an hour just gazing at a stained glass window. I can understand why people don't want to pray, because they perceive prayer as an exhausting ordeal - "doing battle for the Lord in prayer". Sometimes when I read accounts of certain charismatically inclined Christians spending time in prayer I actually feel exhausted just thinking about it, never mind doing it!

Jesus said "my yoke is easy and my burden is light". In Isaiah 28:12 we read about the "rest and refreshing". How can this become a reality in our Christian lives?

I wonder at times whether a lot of Christians - and interested non-Christians - are just completely whacked, and just want the Church to be a place where they can find some kind of peace and stability. But a declining Church may not be able to offer that, because "we need people to do jobs in the Church to keep the place running..." So any poor sucker who darkens their door is soon 'encouraged' to be more participatory, which is likely to send the stressed out and broken person running for the door!

Do you think that Christianity has become just too complicated and burdensome?

If so, how do we simplify it?

How can we reduce it down to simple and refreshing spiritual disciplines?
 

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Posted by Raptor Eye (# 16649) on :
 
Jesus went up a mountain to pray, all night at times. The busy-ness is all very well, but sometimes it gets in the way of service to God, and unless God is the architect, we try to build in vain.

More prayer and less activity is healthy, despite having to run the gauntlet of the criticisers, imv.

Primarily, churches should be houses of prayer.
 

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Posted by tomsk (# 15370) on :
 
Rest/sabbath can be a discipline. Carving out time and saying no. Overbusyness can cause burn out. We can also end up with a religion based on effort.

Malcolm Duncan say that his life looked very busy but was based on a slow rhythm spending a couple of hours in prayer every day. I think Desmond Tutu said he was so busy he could only spend two hours in silent prayer every day. If we go from a place of rest in God we will hopefully not get burnt out.

I pray you feel refreshed soon.


 

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Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
Etymological Evangelical

I can imagine many of the commentators on this website advising you to start going to any cathedral service. Or if a suitable parish church is closer, there's 8am Holy Communion, or Evensong, which is the one I like. These services are very soothing, and you won't feel that you have to get 'involved'. For me as a non-CofE person who's often been very busy in church this is quite a novel feeling.

I don't think these services are a solution to the broader theological and cultural problems of much of contemporary church life, but they have their uses.
 

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Posted by pydseybare (# 16184) on :
 
Stop going to church. Stop going to all the meetings, stop worrying about all the stuff that you are 'supposed' to believe in.

If it is too much effort (and it sounds like it might be for you at the moment), stop putting yourself through it.
 

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Posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard (# 368) on :
 
If it hasn't, then you're missing something.

Protestant evangelical Christianity - there's your problem EE.

It's FULL of expectations. That cannot - ever - be met. And if they are, that's even worse: you're missing something.

Peace my friend.

SvitlanaV2 said my thoughts before I read hers.
 

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Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :
 
I doubt that Christianity, for those who take it seriously, is any more emotionally exhausting than it has always been. We all know why it can be so.

It is nice when Christians--including clergy--can say to other Christians "You're doing okay" or "You're doing better", when this is true, not so the hearer can then slack off but so the hearer can then feel at least a little bit appreciated.
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
Etymological Evangelical, your posts and mine probably annoy each other but/and I am pleased to read your post on this.

I believe that you are absolutely right about 'his burden is light'.

Anything that becomes a burden is not from Christ.

And may he loose your burdens.
 

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Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :
 
I have a lot of sympathy for the OP, and I started to find a lot of things exhausting a few years ago, including religion. My solution in the end, as pydseybare indicated, was to stop them. I didn't find this easy, as I am kind of addicted to doing and thinking and so on, but I am a lot easier on myself now. Or I leave myself alone more.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I've found it helpful under major stress to just go to a quiet place where no one can find me or bug me, say to God, "I'm here," and just sit there. Do nothing, say nothing, pray nothing. It isn't all about doing--some of it is just plain spending time with the one you love. And that doesn't have to involve doing or saying anything at all. Even mentally.

I always feel refreshed and much better than I have any right to feel after one of these times.
 

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Posted by John D. Ward (# 1378) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

Anything that becomes a burden is not from Christ.

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quote:

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Originally posted by pydseybare:
Stop going to church. Stop going to all the meetings, stop worrying about all the stuff that you are 'supposed' to believe in.

If it is too much effort (and it sounds like it might be for you at the moment), stop putting yourself through it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Invictus_88:
Definitely. Jesus definitely told us our calling would be easy, and that if it felt demanding then we should quit.

O_o?

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quote:

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Originally posted by John D. Ward:

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

Anything that becomes a burden is not from Christ.

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I would like to believe it, but it does not agree with Jesus' well known words in Matthew 16:24.

" Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. "

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quote:

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Originally posted by EE:
How can we reduce it down to simple and refreshing spiritual disciplines?

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Midge:
.... The Church is a mere foreshadow of heaven. It is a holiday brochure that actually shows the unfinished hotel, predicts the air traffic control strikes and volcanic ash clouds, is searching for lost luggage and treating the Delhi Belly. It speaks a foreign language half the time too. I don't blame you for wishing you weren't here. ...

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Brilliant. That gets three s
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by John D. Ward:

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

Anything that becomes a burden is not from Christ.

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I would like to believe it, but it does not agree with Jesus' well known words in Matthew 16:24.

" Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. "

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Denying self and taking up the cross is the road to a freedom and is not a burden.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Oh yes it is!
 

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Posted by Tortuf (# 3784) on :
 
In any area where I have a lot of emotional investment there also tends to be a large investment of time, effort and energy. For me, at least, that can easily become exhausting. Moreover, I can easily spend so much time doing the time, effort and energy thing that I miss out on the actual thing itself.

So it was with me for God/Christianity.

When I sought help one of the things that got pounded into my old pudding head was that we are Human Beings not Human Doings. This is especially the case with God. God sees us as we are - with no illusions - and loves us as we are, not as we do.

While, again to me, there is a certain amount of doing that is attached to acting out my belief in God, I am under no illusion (anymore) that my relationship with God depends on what I am doing about that relationship in a physical sense.

I grow closer to God when I take the time away from doing to concentrate on what God is in my life and how I can strengthen and deepen my relationship with God in a spiritual sense.

I get along better with God when I remember that God in in charge of the universe, not me. When I remember that God is not only in charge, but also does a better job of it than I could, I leave room for me to have a relationship with God that is not dependent on what I am doing. It is much less exhausting.
 

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Posted by seekingsister (# 17707) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Oh yes it is!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
God is doing a better job than we could?

How?

With what?

We are the means. He can't do better.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
God is doing a better job than we could?

How?

With what?

We are the means. He can't do better.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Yes, hear, hear ... or 'Amen' to that, Pydseybare ... there's too much 'ought' and 'should' around in some circles.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Invictus_88
Definitely. Jesus definitely told us our calling would be easy, and that if it felt demanding then we should quit.

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quote:

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“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."

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This is often understood according to what I call the "spiritual thermometer interpretation", in which 'hot' means "really committed and on fire for God", 'cold' means you're an unbeliever, and "lukewarm" means that you are a less than fully committed Christian. The interpretation tells us that Jesus would prefer someone to be an unbeliever than a half-baked Christian.

I have come to realise that this interpretation is entirely false, and it has been used as a weapon to manipulate Christians into ever greater exertions for the Church: "If you don't measure up as a wholehearted and committed disciple, then God will vomit you out of his mouth!"

The, in my view, correct interpretation is based on the realisation that both 'hot' and 'cold' represent spiritual blessing: the former heals, the latter refreshes. 'Lukewarm' therefore falls short of both of these. This makes sense of Jesus' comment that he would prefer someone to be hot or cold rather than lukewarm. Laodicea was situated near two other cities: Hierapolis to the north and Colossae to the east. The former was a spa with hot springs and the latter had a spring of cold water. Laodicea, on the other hand, did not have a natural source of water and so it was piped from these other two cities and arrived lukewarm. What Jesus was saying would have been obvious to his hearers: the water of Laodicea had neither healing nor refreshing properties unlike that of the other two cities.

Now, in the light of this, what does 'lukewarm' represent? It's a kind of spirituality which neither heals nor refreshes. It is therefore an oppressive form of religion. The very guilt-trip Christianity, which claims to challenge so called 'lukewarm' Christians, is actually itself lukewarm Christianity. The very teachers and preachers who seem to delight in making heavy demands of their flock, are actually half-hearted. That is why they are legalistic. They fall short of the grace of God. They are not committed, because if they were, they would be healing and refreshing people in the grace of God, instead of making everyone feel condemned and discouraged. Being made to feel that you are always falling short can hardly be called a healing or refreshing experience!

So when people try to dump a guilt-trip on other Christians, they had better heed the warning of Revelation 3:16.
 

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Posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard (# 368) on :
 
EE, maybe it's because I'm listening to the heartbreakingly yearning, beautiful London Grammar, If You Wait album, but you're included.

And now I've softened you up I'm going to kick you in the bollocks

You're right. But stop projecting. This isn't them. There is no them. This is us. We're ALL guilty, we really are. Even when we're not, we must embrace. And I'm crap at it as Mousethief and IngoB and all of you know.

I read you a long time ago. Got you. And I was right. You remember. Now you've most courageously come out. You're family now mate. Closer.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Hmmm ... EE, I suspect that it isn't Christianity that has become psychologically exhausting but a particular brand of it ...

I'm not by any means suggesting that other traditions don't have problems ... Catholic Guilt, the Orthodox tendency towards Phyletism, the liberal tendency to not believing in anything very much at all ... and so on and so on ...

But I do think that 'enthusiastic' and charismatic-tinged evangelical Christianity has an inherent tendency towards burn-out as it's impossible to keep up the expected level of spiritual intensity for any length of time ...

Evan Roberts was knackered after 18 months of the Welsh Revival ...

I'm not suggesting that you're living on a knife-edge of charismatic intensity but I do suspect that your - and my - evangelical charismatic backgrounds can and do inculcate guilt feelings and a sense of urgency that can't be sustained over lengthy periods ...

It's a bit like rave-culture - every high is followed by a low ...

Burn-out and spiritual depression follow as night follows day.

The best antidote is to find another paradigm. One that isn't so intense and prone to swings and peaks and troughs.
 

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Posted by EtymologicalEvangelical (# 15091) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel
Hmmm ... EE, I suspect that it isn't Christianity that has become psychologically exhausting but a particular brand of it ...

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I think you are reading the title of the thread in a rather literal (dare I say, woodenly literal ) way.

I think all brands of Christianity have a tendency to become psychologically wearing, as you rightly implied in the thread you recently posted.
 

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Posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard (# 368) on :
 
We are the brands.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Well yes - yes to EE and yes to Martin ...



I think you're right, most certainly, EE - all traditions can have their inherent pitfalls and pratfalls ... we have to learn to steer our way around them. 'T will ever be thus, whatever 'brand' or tradition we are involved with.

That said, I do think that there is a more holistic rhythm within some traditions which, if practised correctly, can work against burn-out and psychological exhaustion to a large extent ...

But yes, no tradition is immune from that ... and as Martin suggests, we are ourselves part of the problem ...
 

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Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Hmmm ... EE, I suspect that it isn't Christianity that has become psychologically exhausting but a particular brand of it ...

I'm not by any means suggesting that other traditions don't have problems ... Catholic Guilt, the Orthodox tendency towards Phyletism, the liberal tendency to not believing in anything very much at all ... and so on and so on ...

But I do think that 'enthusiastic' and charismatic-tinged evangelical Christianity has an inherent tendency towards burn-out as it's impossible to keep up the expected level of spiritual intensity for any length of time ...

Evan Roberts was knackered after 18 months of the Welsh Revival ...

I'm not suggesting that you're living on a knife-edge of charismatic intensity but I do suspect that your - and my - evangelical charismatic backgrounds can and do inculcate guilt feelings and a sense of urgency that can't be sustained over lengthy periods ...

It's a bit like rave-culture - every high is followed by a low ...

Burn-out and spiritual depression follow as night follows day.

The best antidote is to find another paradigm. One that isn't so intense and prone to swings and peaks and troughs.

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quote:

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Originally posted by pydseybare:
Stop going to church. Stop going to all the meetings, stop worrying about all the stuff that you are 'supposed' to believe in.

If it is too much effort (and it sounds like it might be for you at the moment), stop putting yourself through it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eutychus:
Welcome aboard, Good for Nothing.

I'm not quite sure what you were trying to do there other than quote pydseybare's post, but hello anyay. You can practice posting Ship-style on this thread and introduce yourself here.

Apart from that, please read our Ten Commandments and board posting guidelines, and enjoy the voyage.

Eutychus

Purgatory Host

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