Ship of Fools: Repurposing of churches

Thread: Repurposing of churches Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=026746

Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :

I have sometimes encountered situations in which a building which was at one time a church was no longer in use as such and had become a private home or a business. (For instance, there is such a shop in Tobermory, Mull.) How common an event is this? Should such a building be deconsecrated? If your home had formerly been a church, would that affect your own attitudes about your home or your practices? What would be a suitable later use for a church building?

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
How common an event is this?

If you're including cases where a church becomes a house of worship for a non-Christian religious group(and hence, no longer a church), off the top of my head I can think of about half a dozen instances from my hometown alone.

My neighbourhood has an old Lutheran Church, one of those elongated triangle things that were popular mid-20th Century, that got sold to the Ahmadiyya Muslims. And a nearby Catholic church got converted into some new-age outlet.

And this used to be a Unitarian church, before it was sold to an architect who converted it into his home. Some of the interior shots are rather interesting.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

On the opposite end of the aesthetic spectrum from that architect's house, I'm guessing that this cash-register shop , also from Edmonton, used to be a church.

The top is another example of that elongated pyramid thing I was referencing earlier. Does anyone happen to know what that style is called?

Back to the Unitarian house for a sec, I think that this is a particularly lovely shot.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

When I lived in Boston several movie theaters had been converted from churches, including one that had originally been built as a spiritualist tabernacle.

I did a tour of some New York theaters once, and several of the neighborhood movie palaces seating 2000 people had been converted to churches.

In Seattle, many of the movie theaters were made from fraternal order lodge buildings and a women's club. Apparently in the twenties people were desperate to get out of the house even if it was raining.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

Yeah, movie theatres would be a good use for old churches.

This old Salvation Army "citadel" later became a live theatre, and for the last few decades has been a nightclub, catering to the alternative market. Apparently, Green Day played there back in the early 90s.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

HCH:

You may find this article of interest.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

For a while, old downtown Gothic revival style churches were being turned into nightclubs. I don't know if that still happens.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

While looking for evidence of the nightclub trend, I found one that has been re-purposed as a http://www.nycavalon
nightclub.com/index-1.html strip club (NSFW, as you might imagine). The mind boggles.

[Quite right that it's NSFW. Link broken - Eliab]

[ 14. February 2014, 07:25: Message edited by: Eliab ]

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

West40 Lofts, Toronto

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
While looking for evidence of the nightclub trend, I found one that has been re-purposed as a strip club (NSFW, as you might imagine). The mind boggles.

There was some old church in Edmonton that was later used by the local Crowleyite congregation. I don't know if they had bought it or were renting, but they advertised themselves on the exterior.

What really ticked me off was when the church was torn down for condos, the city felt obligated to put up a plaque telling everyone about how historical it was. Even though the building itself was apprently not worth saving.

Would you happen to know what denomination that strip-club was? I can't find the info on the site.

[Quote edited to break link - Eliab]

[ 14. February 2014, 07:26: Message edited by: Eliab ]

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

There was an Episcopal church somewhere downtown in Manhattan that was turned into a nightclub, although I think I have heard of a Presbyterian church that went the same way.

In Denver, our former church nightclub was an Episcopal congregation that left over a dead horse.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
There was an Episcopal church somewhere downtown in Manhattan that was turned into a nightclub

Perhaps Limelight, nee Church Of The Holy Communion? There is a photo of it at that CNN link above.

[ 13. February 2014, 23:48: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by Bullfrog. (# 11014) on :

quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I have sometimes encountered situations in which a building which was at one time a church was no longer in use as such and had become a private home or a business. (For instance, there is such a shop in Tobermory, Mull.) How common an event is this? Should such a building be deconsecrated? If your home had formerly been a church, would that affect your own attitudes about your home or your practices? What would be a suitable later use for a church building?

I saw one walking through a neighborhood in Chicago that had been turned into a condo. My impression was that it was kind of depressing.

I imagine if I lived in one, I might think it was special at first, but having a family, eventually it was just become another place my family happens to live in. Of course, I haven't done this, but that's my imagination.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
I saw one walking through a neighborhood in Chicago that had been turned into a condo. My impression was that it was kind of depressing.

I know what you're saying. But personally, from an architectural viewpoint, I would consider it more depressing if the church were torn down.

Even if it wasn't a particularly old, unique or beautiful building, I'd still want to keep it up. Churches by and large tend to be built in styles that distinguish them somewhat from other structures, and it would be sad to lose that.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

The 'repurposing' of churches buildings is very common in the UK. I can think of churches that have become mosques, Sikh gurdwaras, apartments, mechanics' worskhops, bars, nightclubs, shops, warehouses, restaurants, 'character homes', etc. Some churches are, of course, bought for use by other Christian denominations. Some churches have listed status, which means they're of particular architectural value. This limits how they can be used.

Non-conformist churches have declined so much here that it really isn't possible for their laypeople or clergy to be hung up on the 'suitability' of conversion to this or that purpose - they just need to get rid of burdensome buildings. The CofE and RCC are more restricted in what they can do with church buildings, so I understand.

[ 14. February 2014, 00:17: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
There was an Episcopal church somewhere downtown in Manhattan that was turned into a nightclub
Perhaps Limelight, nee Church Of The Holy Communion? There is a photo of it at that CNN link above.

I think that is it- at least, the building was Avalon at one point, although Wiki reports that Avalon closed in 2007, and the building is now a high-end shopping center. Limelight apparently closed after frequent raids brought on by it's notoriety as a good place to score drugs. Ironically, the diocese sold it to a group that ran it as a drug rehab clinic, who then sold it to the night club folks.

There is an abandoned church on my dog walk route with a vacant lot next door. My wife and I like to joke that some day we are going to buy it and re-purpose it as a commune and urban farm for recent hippie college graduates. (Never mind the rent, man, you can pay us in stories and baskets of kale!)

Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :

While wasting away an afternoon in the Mission District in San Francisco I stumbled upon the Buddhist temple mentioned here. You could see the statute of the Buddha from across the street. They still had the stone corner with Ephesians 2:20 quoted in German.

I know the church building of my childhood eventually became a mosque for use by the Somali community in the area as well.

Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :

Up and down New Zealand, disused churches have become private homes or craft shops.

GG

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

There are a lot of old chapels and churches here that have been converted to private houses - and others that have been intentionally left to rot rather than be put to another use. In other places I've seen a former church converted into a training and accommodation centre (foyer) for homeless young people, which seems an excellent solution.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

There are several 'repurposed' churches round here - mostly to mosques, but some to private houses and flats.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
There are several 'repurposed' churches round here - mostly to mosques

I've visited this one - repurposed in 1570.

The biggest problem seems to be the nave not facing towards Mecca, which results in a strange skew-whiff arrangement.

Posted by pydseybare (# 16184) on :

Is it a myth that ancient churches are pointing towards Jerusalem?

If not, that's quite unfortunate, given that Muslims used to pray towards Jerusalem (or that might also be mythical).

Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :

I still bend my knee and make the odd sign of the cross at the former St James in Normanton, Derby.

Alter Rock Climbing Centre

Old churches are much sought after for climbing centres - high ceilings, solid masonry, large open spaces for bouldering walls etc.

Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
There are several 'repurposed' churches round here - mostly to mosques
I've visited this one - repurposed in 1570.

The biggest problem seems to be the nave not facing towards Mecca, which results in a strange skew-whiff arrangement.

The same problem occurs to a lesser extent in the most famous repurposed church of all!

Posted by Circuit Rider (# 13088) on :

The Book of Occasional Services (TEC) has an order for secularizing a previously consecrated building. The Bishop celebrates the life of the church, and declares it "deconsecrated and secularized," no longer subject to his canonical jurisdiction.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Some older cathedral cities have huge numbers of churches so can be a good place to find 'repurposed' buildings.

Chichester has churches that are now: a wine bar/restaurant; a private house; an art gallery; a religious bookshop.

In Chester former churches are now an education centre, an ecumenical centre, a heritage centre and, of course, the Guildhall is a former church.

In Gloucester there's a good wine bar in a former nunnery and the Golden Fleece incorporates part of the old Greyfriars.

Posted by ButchCassidy (# 11147) on :

By way of light relief from this horribly depressing subject, I know quite a lot of former cinemas, music halls etc in London that have been converted into churches, including the Hippodrome Golders Green

http://www.elshaddai.org.uk/3in1.htm

They tend towards the prosperity gospel end but you can't have everything.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

I've been to the 'closing' service of two churches.

One was a eucharist which ended with a procession to the west door and a commissioning to follow where the Spirit led. The vicar then, inappropriately in my view, opened champagne in the fonr.
The other was merely a final evensong.

In neither case was there any deconsecration, though someone from these boards sent me a copy of a service of deconsecration.

[ 14. February 2014, 13:24: Message edited by: leo ]

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

The Methodist church I attended closed, and there was a closing service that I helped to organise, but no mention was made of 'de-consecration'.

Among Methodists, and no doubt some other Non-conformists, there seems to be a somewhat muddled theology of church buildings. We still have a vague notion of 'the house of God' and a sense of hired halls as something lesser, yet when we sell our churches they automatically lose any aura of holiness without any specific prayers or rituals to that effect. I'm not entirely sure how this 'works'.

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :

Whilst being very aware that various Anglican churches in other provinces Do have de consecration services........

And also baring in mind that the PCC and minister can choose to have any service and may very well cause it to be called "de consecration service" for purely pastoral reasons.....

As far as the Church of England is concerned, isn't a Consecration as legal term? And therefore is there any such legal thing as a "de consecration service"?

Doesn't the de consecration happen as a result of the diocesan registrar signing a form?

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Among Methodists, and no doubt some other Non-conformists, there seems to be a somewhat muddled theology of church buildings. We still have a vague notion of 'the house of God' and a sense of hired halls as something lesser, yet when we sell our churches they automatically lose any aura of holiness without any specific prayers or rituals to that effect. I'm not entirely sure how this 'works'.

You are right - and we call our buildings "churches" while saying that "the church is people". The architect of Cromer Baptist Church got things right with the ascription above the door ... but what any prospective purchaser do with that lettering?

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

No problem, if you're a Baptist. Just have friends over for coffee once in a while.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

In my home village, the Methodist church was being sold off - the former congregation were hoping that it would be bought by someone sympathetic to former use, as apparently it had to be sold to the person offering the best price, rather than to the person offering the most suitable solution. In the end, it was sold to someone wanting to convert it into a house, so that was OK then. In a rural area, conversions of old schools and old churches into houses is the most common outcome. And many of them are done rather well.

For an alternative solution, I offer you the place where I took my exams - a CofE church bought by the college and turned into an educational centre. While I was scribbling away, my thoughts did wonder what the ghosts of worshippers past were making of it all.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Among Methodists, and no doubt some other Non-conformists, there seems to be a somewhat muddled theology of church buildings. We still have a vague notion of 'the house of God' and a sense of hired halls as something lesser, yet when we sell our churches they automatically lose any aura of holiness without any specific prayers or rituals to that effect. I'm not entirely sure how this 'works'.
You are right - and we call our buildings "churches" while saying that "the church is people". The architect of Cromer Baptist Church got things right with the ascription above the door ... but what any prospective purchaser do with that lettering?

Don't get me started! Our minister was always saying 'the church is the people', but when our building became a serious burden and options were being considered he refused to help us think theologically about how we could be church without a building of our own. His enthusiasm was all about having a sparkly new building paid for by sponsors. Well, the credit crunch put paid to the sponsorship, and that was that.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0