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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Sherlock - triumphant return or disappointment?
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Lucia
Looking for light
# 15201
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Posted
Did anyone else watch the much awaited return of Sherlock? (UK, BBC1 New Year's Day)
I enjoyed the episode but I felt that they had overdone the characters a bit. It almost felt like Sherlock was a bit of a parody of himself, a bit over emphasised perhaps?
It was quite humorous but the serious crime solving seemed a bit of a side story. But maybe that was inevitable in an episode that had to deal with Sherlock appearing back from the dead after two years!
I need to watch it again as there are still some details about what happened in the last episode that I haven't got clear in my mind. Were John and the others really all in danger from Moriarty's henchmen or did Mycroft have that covered?
I suppose in retrospect it was inevitable that there had to have been others involved in Sherlock faking his death.
Mycorft and Sherlock's relationship seems a bit different this time around. Now it looks like they are in fact very alike but Mycroft has gone down the 'Establishment' route, whilst Sherlock is a maverick.
And why was John nearly burned alive?
Posts: 1075 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
It was an episode very much into messing with your head. The bonfire incident - and the chap watching it at the end - are presumably lead ins to the next episode.
Interesting how lines from Conan Doyle's 'return' story were embedded, as in the scene with the tramp in the surgery, and in the 'bomb' train. I have to say, when I heard the name 'Sumatra' for the lost station, I was expecting a giant rat at some point.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
It was a very clever way of not telling anyone exactly how he survived. While putting out some fun theories.
I think the real storyline was "Sherlock returns", the terrorist incident just a reason for him to be back.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
I really enjoyed it. It's very clever the quick asides updating the original stories, the step father posing as an on-line boyfriend for instance. Cross I didn't get the Sumatra reference, that's one of my favourite lines in literature.
[ 02. January 2014, 08:07: Message edited by: Gussie ]
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
I really enjoyed it too, and will watch it again soon to get the bits I didn't hear the first time. Mycroft and Sherlock are very alike in the stories - if anything Mycroft is worse - can you imagine what they were like at school ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) ?
And I cackled with glee not only at familiar references (like the tramp in the surgery) but also when Benedict's real parents turned up in 221B as Sherlock's parents ![[Smile]](smile.gif) .
As Firenze said, I think Gatiss was just messing with your head, but a very enjoyable experience it was too!
[ 02. January 2014, 09:07: Message edited by: Pine Marten ]
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
Sorry for double post but just to add that I thought Martin Freeman's performance exceptionally good, particularly when faced with Sherlock's smug and too-clever-by-half return. His churning emotions had me almost sniffing back a tear, and I cheered when he punched Sherlock's lights out. He is a brilliant Watson.
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Hugely enjoyable. I thought Sherlock was a gentler and less abrasive character in this episode. However, I could see the "closed station" and explosives situation coming which was a bit of a disappointment as the previous episodes really had me mystified.
The reunion was great, beautifully understated. Freeman and Cumberbatch work really well together - the on-screen chemistry is there, and it's hard to envisage another actor in Watson's role. It's also very nice to see someone making something of that role instead of just being a plot device and a foil to Holmes' brilliance. Both actors are very good at what they do, too - another great and powerful performance from Martin Freeman.
Loved the explanations. Excellent solution to a problem, one that keeps the fans still intrigued.
[ 02. January 2014, 11:08: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
The whole bit with the train annoyed me somewhat. Even if there had been a station that was never opened between Westminster and St James Park there wouldn't have been a convenient siding on which to store a carriage for over a day without dozens of trains an hour crashing into it. And how would a staff service tunnel at Westminster station give access to said never-opened station anyway? Also: the District Line isn't as far underground as shown, it has a far larger tunnel diameter than the disused bit of the Piccadilly Line they actually filmed the scene in, and the external shots of the carriage in the tunnel were clearly of a different train than the internal ones.
Other than that, I enjoyed the episode a great deal.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
seconded on the train front - my way of rationalising it was that there would also have to be some sort of spur branch from the disused station, but that still leaves quite a large signalling/points headache for the driver, to say nothing of whether such a spur's rails would necessarily be live....
To be honest, I had less of a problem with the service tunnels, given that to get from Westminster to a station under the Palace of Westminster is literally a matter of going under the road, and there are all sorts of 1940s escape routes/duplicate entrances across the network thanks to the intervention of Mr Hitler in Our Island Story (TM).
Of course, that does leave the question, distances being what they are, of *why* they built a station in the first place under Parliament (obviously, I know they didn't in real life) when even if we assume they put it at the far end under the Victoria Tower that's still at the most about 7-800 yards (if that) from the end of the platforms at Westminster...
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
Firenze - there was a Giant Rat! The chap who didn't go to Parliament because he was involved in the bomb plot was described as such by Sherlock "working for the North Koreans since 1996".
It all went a bit Wicker Man in the middle, didn't it?
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
I liked the fan who had written Sherlock / Moriarty slash. It's the kind of postmodern permission to write your own story that people are so dissatisfied with in Moffat's Doctor Who.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lucia
Looking for light
# 15201
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Posted
Funny to now discover that John Watson's girlfriend is played by Martin Freeman's real-life partner and that Sherlock's parents were played by Benedict Cumberbatch's parents!
I'll now have to go back and see if I can see the physical resemblance between parents and son!
Posts: 1075 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Of course, that does leave the question, distances being what they are, of *why* they built a station in the first place under Parliament (obviously, I know they didn't in real life) when even if we assume they put it at the far end under the Victoria Tower that's still at the most about 7-800 yards (if that) from the end of the platforms at Westminster...
But then, from Chancery Lane station, you can see Holborn, so there are sometimes stations far closer together than is strictly necessary. Also City Thameslink and Blackfriars are close. There are usually historical reasons for them.
It would make sense to have a station under The Palace before Westminster station was built, or if it was served by different lines. It makes possible sense.
However the problem of a station that you can go through and leave a carriage at doesn't work. If it was part of the main line, it would have been far too busy to leave a carriage there. If not, it would need the signaler to have changed the points and allowed one carriage off the main line - another person in on the plot. Never mind whoever added another carriage to the train, something that is nothing like as easy as indicated.
I was trying to work out where in London Sherlock was going between Baker Street and St James the Less. The timing was about right, but I am fairly sure they went around a whole lot of other places.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
But then, from Chancery Lane station, you can see Holborn, so there are sometimes stations far closer together than is strictly necessary. Also City Thameslink and Blackfriars are close. There are usually historical reasons for them.
On the Deep Level lines (such as the Central) stations were usually built about half a mile apart to facilitate site access and extraction of spoil. Some have since closed (e.g. Down Street, South Kentish Town) and others have moved to facilitate interchange (e.g. British Museum, replaced by Holborn further east).
City Thameslink and Blackfriars are on a main-line railway which links north and south London. Blackfriars was (and is) a station above street level, City Thameslink replaced Snow Hill or Holborn Viaduct (Low Level), which was underneath the terminus station of the same name. Until about 1990 the trains ran over Ludgate Hill on a bridge rather than underneath, as today.
Amazingly there was once another a station in between these two, called (surprise, surprise) Ludgate Hill - that was when trains were much shorter than today. The old London, Chatham & Dover couldn't seem to make up its mind!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Jammy Dodger
Half jam, half biscuit
# 17872
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
Sorry for double post but just to add that I thought Martin Freeman's performance exceptionally good, particularly when faced with Sherlock's smug and too-clever-by-half return. His churning emotions had me almost sniffing back a tear, and I cheered when he punched Sherlock's lights out. He is a brilliant Watson.
Agree. Thoroughly enjoyed the episode and thought the best bits were Cumberbatch and Freeman sparking off each other. Great stuff. I don't mind all the plot about a ridiculous underground station beneath Westminster ( what a massive security nightmare that would be). I just enjoyed the ride.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I had no idea until today that Sherlock's parents were played by his real life parents! I didn't realize he came from an acting family. There's a repeat on Friday night which I'll have to watch, if just for that.
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I loved it. I didn't have a problem with the disused Underground station - there are stranger things down there. Look here, for instance. (The article on Aldwych station is interesting - the station is on a spur that runs off the Piccadilly line, very like the station in last night's Sherlock.
The cast were brilliant, as always, and I particularly liked Mary, John's girlfriend. I'm not quite so sure about the introduction of a series arc (the man watching the screens at the end), but the last season arc wasn't too obtrusive, so it may be okay.
One thing I wondered about "St James the Less" - which St James the Less? There are at least two, in Pimlico and Bethnal Green.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
(Putting on my anorak, and rechecking on iPlayer)
I must admit that the trains did annoy me. The CCTV footage was clearly of a tube train (the double doors which fold over the roof, and the height relative to the bad guy getting on). The disused station was also a tube station (probably Aldgate, it's used for a lot of that kind of thing), and the end of the carriage (sorry, car) into which they climbed there was also a tube train. However, once inside it was clearly an underground car, with single, flat sliding doors, and a higher roof line. So, a distinct lack of continuity. Inside, I think the map of the line was correctly a District Line map - I can make out the branching west of Turnham Green.
The District Line, like the Metropolitan line before it, were built by "cut and cover" - dig a trench for the tracks, and the build over it. So, on those sections - as through Westminster and St James' Park - the tracks are double, with platforms opposite each other (or multiple platforms, as at South Kensington). So, the CCTV footage was just not OK.
Also, the car which was left was an 'end' car, with a driver's compartment. They could hardly have left that behind without someone noticing.
Don't they know that this kind of sloppiness ruins things for some people? (Like having steam trains in the wrong livery for the location and period).
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
The 2 things I found mildly annoying (but might be down to my lack of insight, or in the second by future episodes)
They get to the station, find the train not there. Holmes then has a 'brilliant' bit of insight and runs further? down the track to find detonators (which if used to actually do the damage, why the train, and if as a trigger why the timer) and then the train. It (or I) seemed to be missing something.
Given the fuss about finding 'how he did it', getting (to slightly misquote schrodingers cat)
quote:
a very clever way of not telling anyone exactly how he survived. While putting out theories.
was a bit of a disappointment, especially when you realized that once you'd taken out the mock theories (I enjoyed them once on the joke) that didn't work you weren't left with as much evidence of Moffat's (advertised) planning as you thought*.
*even the theory left as viable, if Moriarty shooting himself really was a surprise, then it falls to pieces.
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
Don't they know that this kind of sloppiness ruins things for some people?
Ah, but the Some are few, and the Many don't notice.
I've been reading a wheen of urban fantasy novels recently (Gaiman, Aaronovitch) and I notice how often the Underground turns up as a Doorway to Darker Things. It has a high level of built-in creep.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I agree about the level of built-in creep. The Tube's often been the setting for some of my dreams and a few bad dreams. There's certainly an element of surreality about it even when awake, as the beast with glowing eyes roars out of the tunnel, engulfs a horde of people, and spews them out later somewhere else. And then there is the Gap, which you must always mind. Nobody ever says why, which leaves your imagination free to speculate...
[ 02. January 2014, 19:29: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
You do get driver carriages in the middle of tube trains sometimes. I've seen quite a few in the last few months. It's worth paying attention because if the weather is hot you lose the ventilation from the end window and that carriage is ovenlike.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
(The article on Aldwych station is interesting - the station is on a spur that runs off the Piccadilly line, very like the station in last night's Sherlock.
Exactly like, I'd have said ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
<snip> And then there is the Gap, which you must always mind. Nobody ever says why, which leaves your imagination free to speculate...
But if you don't mind the gap the results aren't good, having seen some of them. And then there are the mice
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657
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Posted
I do find the obsessive geekiness about the Underground a terrible bore. It's fiction - you're supposed to suspend disbelief, like you have to when reading the original adventures.
Are you just as irritated by the chronological sloppiness of Conan Doyle's writing?
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
I think there's "obsessive geekiness" which may be indulged in for effect - eg "why would there be two stations so close together?/look at the shape of the doors!" and then there's how in God's name do you park a single carriage on the Underground for 24 hours without either crippling the network or causing an almighty crash (much the same thing)?
That's not geekiness, that's an enormous plot-hole which should never have got past the storyboarding. If they couldn't think of a way of doing it, just have the train stopped briefly while they shove explosives in a vent shaft or something.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
I agree with Lucia; this was a curate's egg of an episode. The reunion between Holmes and Watson was excellent (IMHO Freeman is the real star of the show, since he has a lot more acting to do than Cumerbach) but the terrorist threat and its solution remained out of focus. Don't get me wrong; this was the best thing that's been on TV for weeks(including the Who Christmas special). However last season was excellent, this was merely very good.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I just downloaded it and watched it. Thought it was great! Mary is a great character, hope they don't kill her off.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Badger Lady
Shipmate
# 13453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
(Putting on my anorak, and rechecking on iPlayer)
Don't they know that this kind of sloppiness ruins things for some people? (Like having steam trains in the wrong livery for the location and period).
You're not the only one.
I liked parts of the episode but the lack of a proper Mystery to solve weakened it. I'm hoping that it reverts to former brilliance next week.
Posts: 340 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
/Geek & Tangent alert/
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
Don't they know that this kind of sloppiness ruins things for some people? (Like having steam trains in the wrong livery for the location and period).
Such as people in "Downton" getting onto a Metropolitan train in Yorkshire ... What line were they on? Eh?
/Ends/
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
It’s fiction, people. It’s set in an alternative universe where Conan Doyle never wrote "Sherlock Holmes" - if indeed Conan Doyle even exists in that world - and the character is alive and in the present day. Within the parameters of that alternative universe, the Underground as they know it is correct. You should expect some differences between their world and your own.
[ 03. January 2014, 10:58: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
In the 80's I was a railman on the underground. One of my duties was to inspect the disued and a out-of-service stations. There are loads of them, with sidings (many dug during the war). Plus old connecting walkways, bunkers and unused lift shafts. Back in the day it was good place for a drink and a smoke. Get on with a driver and get him to drop you off at the right place, then flag one down with a red light to get home again.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
I watched it again this morning after Mr Marten went out and enjoyed it just as much. I desperately hoped that Sherlock and Mary would get to the bonfire before John was burned to a crisp, even though I knew they would - bit like wondering if Ben Hur would win the chariot race - and I marvelled again at how good Martin Freeman is.
I don't have a problem with Underground geekiness, although being a Ricardian I admit I'm the same with medieval stuff - I shouted endlessly at the screen during The White Queen, so I do understand.
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
I shouted endlessly at the screen during The White Queen, so I do understand.
You mean they got the trains wrong in that as well?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
They got pretty much everything wrong ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) !...
...apart from Richard being a human being instead of a demon king, that is
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Roseofsharon:
I do find the obsessive geekiness about the Underground a terrible bore. It's fiction - you're supposed to suspend disbelief, like you have to when reading the original adventures.
Are you just as irritated by the chronological sloppiness of Conan Doyle's writing?
It is far more akin to science fiction, where the events are expected to be possible, even if there is some logical discontinuity that is glossed over, given this, the rest should be consistent.
In Sherlock, the existence of Holmes himself is the discrepancy, but given that, everything else should fit into normal London living. Otherwise it becomes pure fantasy, and the appropriate solution is probably magic, not Sherlocks logic.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
They got pretty much everything wrong !...
...apart from Richard being a human being instead of a demon king, that is
Amen!
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
I've just found the prequel 'Many Happy Returns' on YouTube ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) - anyone else seen it?
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
And then there is the Gap, which you must always mind. Nobody ever says why, which leaves your imagination free to speculate...
Read Neil Gaiman's 'Neverwhere' (or listen to the excellent Radio 4 adaptation from last year if you can find it) and that phrase will give you chills. I'm guessing Firenze has been reading this.
I must admit to some minor Tube-related annoyance, if only because I get the District Line to St James's Park every day. The inside of the car was definitely a District line, one of the newer ones. But the outside was the wrong shape - looked more like a Piccadilly Line train.
It wouldn't have bothered me, except that they made such a big thing of the distance between stations (which is more like 1 minute than 5, actually).
But then, I'm the person who can't watch 'Notting Hill' without mentally shouting 'but you can't get the 52 to Piccadilly!'
Unfortunate side-effect of 20 years in London.
[ 03. January 2014, 20:53: Message edited by: Gill H ]
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
I've just found the prequel 'Many Happy Returns' on YouTube - anyone else seen it?
Absolutely brilliant! I hope they include it on the DVD release. A little googling (I was looking for Sumatra Road) found another box of delights in this Daily Telegraph article. Unusually fannish for the Telegraph, I thought, but great fun.
[liturgical tangent]
When I was at theological college, the music director used "Mind the Gap" to time the pause in the middle of each chanted psalm verse. The phrase haunts my recitation of the psalms to this day.
[/liturgical tangent]
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
And then there is the Gap, which you must always mind. Nobody ever says why, which leaves your imagination free to speculate...
Read Neil Gaiman's 'Neverwhere' (or listen to the excellent Radio 4 adaptation from last year if you can find it) and that phrase will give you chills.
Read that (and heard some of the R4 broadcast which was on last week). Great stuff.
Just watched the episode again. I'm amazed how restrained John was during the reunion. A really excellent portrayal of someone clearly struggling with a conflict of intense emotions.
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Hugal
Shipmate
# 2734
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Posted
I agree with Gill H. The outside view of the train was not a District Line but the inside was.
From Westminster to St James' Park is less than a five minutes journey. The station they filmed was not St James'. It is important because the series is about getting details right. I bet the 'Points of View' post bag was bulging.
I did enjoy the programme though.
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I have never done this trick in these trousers before.
Posts: 1887 | From: london | Registered: Apr 2002
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
I now want that Tube geek's model train layout! ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
I think Moffat,Gatis et al made it pretty clear that they don't care that much about getting all the technical details 100% right. The various explanations of how Sherlock survived and in particular the way they portray those characters that really did care how he did it, which at the very least has to be seen as gentle mocking, I think speaks volumes.
Sherlock, being a show about a very clever detective, has to have a complex puzzle-crime to solve. And it has to have the figleaf of seeming like a very clever, watertight, only-possible-way-to-fit-the-facts solution. But in terms of the show, that's just the MacGuffin. What the show is really about is the relationship between Holmes and Watson. That's why it's Martin Freeman under the bonfire. That's why they're prepared to bend and stretch plausibility and tube layouts to get the two main characters in a life and death situation so they can talk about how they feel about each other.
That's also why the next episode is about what it's about. I'm aware not everyone will have seen the trailers so I won't give any details but if you have you'll know what I mean (and by tomorrow night you will anyway).
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
Late Paul, for anyone who hasn't seen the trailer, it's available on youtube. I just watched it now.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
I think Moffat,Gatis et al made it pretty clear that they don't care that much about getting all the technical details 100% right
The thing is, they don't need to explain everything - like how Sherlock survived. They need to provide some possibilities that make it conceivable.
But the technical details do matter, because Sherlocks method of solving problems is logic. If distances are all variable, then we cannot know whether Badboy Jenkins could have got from A to B in the time. If train tracks go through stations - so you can compare the CCTV from one to the other - then you cannot put a train car on the track. If you see pictures of a train car, then a different one appears in a siding, then you cannot pretend they are the same.
In Sherlock, unlike Who, these technical details do matter, because they are at the heart of the detective method. If they are not right, how can I have a hope of working it out before Sherlock?
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
I think Moffat,Gatis et al made it pretty clear that they don't care that much about getting all the technical details 100% right
The thing is, they don't need to explain everything - like how Sherlock survived. They need to provide some possibilities that make it conceivable.
My point is not whether they need to or not, and certainly not whether I think they need to or not, it's that I think they don't care, and have demonstrated, and communicated clearly, that they don't care. Or at least that the care about other things far far more.
quote:
In Sherlock, unlike Who, these technical details do matter, because they are at the heart of the detective method. If they are not right, how can I have a hope of working it out before Sherlock?
I could be wrong but I don't think they signed on to that deal.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
In Sherlock, unlike Who, these technical details do matter, because they are at the heart of the detective method. If they are not right, how can I have a hope of working it out before Sherlock?
Well, I did manage to guess the "closed stations" and the carriage of explosives before the great detective arrived at that conclusion. It's the only time I've ever got there before him, but it can be done.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I look back on the last episode of Blake's Seven, which I thought showed contempt for the audience, with some forgiveness - the successive possible, but ruled out answers here do look like laughing at fans, and Philip rubbed it in.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
OTOH, Gatiss and Moffat have to be well in the obsessive Holmsesian nerd class to have created the series. I think they are quite well aware of how close they are to the fan-fic huddles - except they have got a budget from the BBC.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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