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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: 'The higher up the candle, the stronger the coffee, and contrariwise.''
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
Have Shipmates found this to be true?
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
What a weird idea! Ours changes week by week, according to who is on the coffee rota!
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
I think that might be one of those lines that is more amusing than true. At the very least, I don't see a correlation. We are pretty high up the candle and have pretty mediocre coffee, which I chalk up to the bulk purchased, pre-ground, extra oxidized coffee that the budget allows.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
We're low and mostly African and West Indian.
So the coffee is milky weak instant. Drink the tea, at least its strong.
When I lived in Kenya my neighbours grew coffee - it was the main source of income by a long way in our district - but they drank tea. Made the Anglo-Indian way, tea, water, milk, and sugar all boiled in the same pot.
If you bought your chai from a stall or cafe run by Somalis, which lots were, it often came with other herbs and spices in it too. Like black pepper, coriander, cardamom, cumin, sometimes even chili. Not so much spiced as curried. And it's wonderful. If you are hot, dry, tired, and dusty waiting for a bus in the middle of nowhere at the edge of the desert, a cup of boiling hot sweet spicy tea full of milk and sugar can be amazing.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I make my own coffee and it has to be rough, rich, intense, and dark. No milk, no sugar, no prisoners.
I also love a good old-fashioned Catholic Latin Mass.
Having said that, I've never been to the after-service coffee at my local church, basically because there isn't any as far as I know, but in places where I have had this it wasn't particularly inspiring coffee.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
I suspect it may once have been true but no longer; and furthermore I suspect that this is because the true correlation is between quality of coffee and total (rather than average) parish income.
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
If you're REALLY high up the candle you will find something like, and I quote from the service paper:
'The licenced establishment in the undercroft opens 20 minutes after the conclusion of the High Mass,'
This is from All Sts, Margaret St., I may not have quoted quite correctly, but the brews were superb.
(I have not comparison-shopped other AC shrines in London.)
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
We're reasonably high and still get sad instant church coffee, and too-weak tea served with stale and soft biscuits. We are very much not a shrine church, and one can only dream of the wonders* served there.
*If said wonders do not include a G&T then I am deeply disappointed.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Also, I think char-evo places with actual coffee bars rather disprove this! Never found one with a Rev-style smoothie bar yet though ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I make my own coffee and it has to be rough, rich, intense, and dark. No milk, no sugar, no prisoners.
I also love a good old-fashioned Catholic Latin Mass.
Having said that, I've never been to the after-service coffee at my local church, basically because there isn't any as far as I know, but in places where I have had this it wasn't particularly inspiring coffee.
Me too, although I'm not so sure about the Mass in languages other than Spanish or English! I grind my own at the local store because our Krups grinder is so small that it can only make enough for one cup at a time and we usually brew enough
hazelnut or French vanilla for four or five cups...
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
I have never found any relation between churchmanship and the quality of coffee.
Unless I know otherwise, I go for the tea. Sometimes I ask for the server's recommendation, also a good way to break the ice and actually get someone to talk to me at the coffee hour (this is especially necessary when the church advertises itself as inclusive and welcoming)-- assured by a young man in Kingston that it was not wimpy coffee and he had barista training, I tried it and found that the coffee had a redemptive aspect.
In one of my MW reports, I noticed how the Anglican Cathedral in Buenos Aires after the service provided me with a cortado (macchiato) as requested, and cafe solo (espresso) or cafe con leche (cappucino/café au lait) was also available. However, the Argentines are serious about their coffee. Having tasted the coffee of Florida Episcopalians, I was driven to attend a Mass in Castilian at the local RC outlet, and got an excellent cubano coffee after the service.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
I have never found any relation between churchmanship and the quality of coffee.
Unless I know otherwise, I go for the tea. Sometimes I ask for the server's recommendation, also a good way to break the ice and actually get someone to talk to me at the coffee hour (this is especially necessary when the church advertises itself as inclusive and welcoming)-- assured by a young man in Kingston that it was not wimpy coffee and he had barista training, I tried it and found that the coffee had a redemptive aspect.
In one of my MW reports, I noticed how the Anglican Cathedral in Buenos Aires after the service provided me with a cortado (macchiato) as requested, and cafe solo (espresso) or cafe con leche (cappucino/café au lait) was also available. However, the Argentines are serious about their coffee. Having tasted the coffee of Florida Episcopalians, I was driven to attend a Mass in Castilian at the local RC outlet, and got an excellent cubano coffee after the service.
British coffee is generally worse than the worst North American coffee, IME. *shudders*
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
While our A-C shack is not nose-bleed high, we do believe that life is too short for bad coffee: so after each service we have plungers of freshly-ground coffee on supply as a restorative (always have 'good' instant for those heretical ones who prefer it). Tea is also served - seems like the tea-drinkers prefer a tea-bag.
Mind you, nothing like stale church no-names biscuits either. People keep bringing in lovely home-made cakes and pastries - and there is a cupboard fit to burst with chocolate covered shortbread and almond biscuits (to name but one type).
We have a very good catering standard as well - and fundraisers such as home made preserves and pickles and traditional Christmas cakes and puddings. We're already planning our Maundy Thursday Seder meal as well as a mid-year revelry dinner.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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OddJob
Shipmate
# 17591
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Posted
There's a 'sacrifice of the best' theory in some low house churches I've encountered, where only top quality food and drink should be brought to church events. The view seems to be held most strongly amongst those on lowish incomes.
At the same time, the OP's observation about 'high as the flying butresses' churches and high quality coffee (and, I find, foods) also holds true.
Connoisseurs of good ale also tend to be concentrated at opposite ends of the theological spectrum, I find. Maybe the latter trend results from relatively few men being in the middle of the theological road.
Posts: 97 | From: West Midlands | Registered: Mar 2013
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
seems like the tea-drinkers prefer a tea-bag.
What? Separate individual tea-bags, in a cup? ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
They are not tea-drinkers. By definition.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
That's exactly how most Americans feel about instant coffee. I've never been to a church that would dream of serving instant, we use huge automatic coffee machines. Instant coffee is for camping trips.
Chai tea? Just the smell of it gives me a headache.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
It's simply not true that Anglo-Catholics have refined or exotic tastes. I simply haven't the energy for anything fussy after a High Mass which I've spent inhaling purest Arabian incense, spiced with the oil of black roses whose petals were picked at dawn. So exhausted am I from elevating the chalice - heavy with cabuchon rubies given from the dowry of a 17th century contessa - that I retire to my boudoir as soon as the organist has finished his weekly tribute to the excesses of Lefébure-Wély. There, it's true, I sip a little coffee, an espresso made from heady, sweet Java beans. I may even nibble on a small bitter chocolate, fashioned by strict Calvinist virgins in a Swiss valley accessible only by pack-mule. But then I barely have time to practise my hobby of trying to identify the precise origin of a range of Thai silks by touch alone, before I have to slave over a hot stove to prepare a luncheon snack of larks' tongues and asparagus tips. My one indulgence is that I eat this with a two-pronged golden fork reputed to have belonged to King Chosroes II, and smuggled into England in a hatbox belonging to Heinrich Schliemann. But one has to have one's little luxuries.
*Sigh*. Anglo-Catholicism is such hard work.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I've never been to a church that would dream of serving instant, we use huge automatic coffee machines. Instant coffee is for camping trips.
This is my experience too -- big chrome percolators with spigots at the bottom. Coffee is purchased in huge tins from a warehouse store like Costco. The same urns are an almost universal feature of AA meetings, as well.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
Posts: 547 | From: here | Registered: Sep 2012
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
Also, there's almost always a parallel urn for decaf.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
Posts: 547 | From: here | Registered: Sep 2012
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I've never been to a church that would dream of serving instant, we use huge automatic coffee machines. Instant coffee is for camping trips.
I wouldn't even bring it camping- I have a stove top percolator for that.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The highest AC place I've ever encountered didn't serve either coffee or tea.
The Treasurer had worked out that the cost of heating water (for washing up as well as beverages) in a church with NO HEATING would make it cheaper to drink sherry or marsala.
Accordingly, ordinary time we had sherry or marsala, festivals we drank champagne.
Chin-chin!
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
So how did you wash the glasses? Or did you use disposables (ugh!)?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Disposables at first, then glasses that were taken home (on a rota basis) for washing.
I'm told they now have a couple of discreet solar panels which produce just enough juice to power a small dishwasher which is used for glasses.
And when I say this place was cold, I'm not kidding: although it had loos it was standard for the water in them to freeze and we had hand sanitising gel years before the NHS.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
My one indulgence is that I eat this with a two-pronged golden fork reputed to have belonged to King Chosroes II, and smuggled into England in a hatbox belonging to Heinrich Schliemann.
Isn't that usually kept in a niche in the north wall of St Bartholemew, Ann Street, Brighton? Just behind one of the smaller marble pillars from the temple at Baalbec in Syria?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by OddJob:
Connoisseurs of good ale also tend to be concentrated at opposite ends of the theological spectrum, I find. Maybe the latter trend results from relatively few men being in the middle of the theological road.
They are also concentrated in the members of cathedral, collegiate and better church choirs. Lurk outside the cathedral at the end of Evensong and follow the choirmen and they will unerringly lead you to the best local hostelry.
The thing that surprises me about this thread is that there are, apparently, churches with decent coffee. My experience points to good coffee being one of the consumables explicitly not shown to St Peter.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
I think that "coffee" may well become a euphemism the higher up the candle you go.
My last regular place was not the one l'organist has in mind, but was also a fan of sherry most of the year, with champagne (from the fridge naturally) May-August.
We, however, had a dishwasher.
If it had been any higher, then nosebleeds would have been the least of the congregation's worries, what with the general lack of oxygen, and danger of heads imploding.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Right at the bottom of the candle here and no sherry (Methodist).
But excellent coffee and food all round. Several of our members have been on gourmet foody courses.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
That's exactly how most Americans feel about instant coffee. I've never been to a church that would dream of serving instant, we use huge automatic coffee machines. Instant coffee is for camping trips.
It's a British thing I'm afraid. For many Brits, Instant Coffee is coffee. It comes from drinking it with lots of milk and usually sugar. You have to specify black over here or milk goes in automatically.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Common conversation with cafe staff
Jengie: May I have a black Americano/coffee?
Staff: Do you want milk in that?
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
It really is deeply ingrained.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
I think that "coffee" may well become a euphemism the higher up the candle you go.
My last regular place was not the one l'organist has in mind, but was also a fan of sherry most of the year, with champagne (from the fridge naturally) May-August.
We, however, had a dishwasher.
If it had been any higher, then nosebleeds would have been the least of the congregation's worries, what with the general lack of oxygen, and danger of heads imploding.
I spent a summer as an intern at St. Mary the Virgin NYC, and the coffee spread was always quite good, and included wine. That summer, an accountant who was working for the Brooklyn Brewery and who had access to complementary five gallon kegs started bringing a keg of hefeweizen to coffee hours. I don't think it lasted long (in fact, I don't think there was wine with coffee last time I was there), but for a poor 21 year old intern in a hot, muggy, expensive city, it was heaven on earth. (I believe they had a bowl of ice next to the coffee, which is key if it is over 90 degrees when coffee hour starts, in my opinion.)
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by roybart:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I've never been to a church that would dream of serving instant, we use huge automatic coffee machines. Instant coffee is for camping trips.
This is my experience too -- big chrome percolators with spigots at the bottom. Coffee is purchased in huge tins from a warehouse store like Costco. The same urns are an almost universal feature of AA meetings, as well.
AA rents our church hall for its meetings. They are the same urns, in our case.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Having recently attended the local Coptic outlet to pacify a friend, I was pleased to see that, along with the legendary coffee urns which are clearly a proof of assimilation and integration, several kanakas (ibriks, or little pots for making turkish coffee) were on the stove, tended to by an intense young woman from the youth group. It was for the old people, I was told, so I pleaded to be counted among them and was given a small glass of the stuff and directed to the loukoum.
I might go back. I cannot think of a better subject for my five thousandth post.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I can't say I've ever observed the coffee conundrum, but a committee for which I do the minutes met the other night at a fairly evangelical shack and the tea (it was tea-bags in a bowl, with a kettle to make one's own) was so horrid I nearly asked what sort it was so that I could avoid it. D. said that knowing the church's new rector, it was probably free-trade, right-on politically-correct tea ...
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
I remember a conversation the topic of which was "Which is worse: hospital coffee or church coffee?" I think the consensus was they are tied for horribleness.
In the US, one cannot find good tea. In churches, it likely to be warmish water from a 90s drip coffee maker, which someone flicked on before the service. The tea bag generic, and the cup Styrofoam. Even in somewhat nice restaurants, the tea ordered will be made from flat, insipid water sitting in an urn from time immemorial, poured into an ice-cold individual metal pot, and perhaps a choice of pretentious sounding teas in tea bags for the patron to drop into an ice cold cup, which s/he will then pour the flat luke-warm water in the metal pot.
Don't order tea in the US, (though I hear there is a place in Manhattan where it is quaffable.)
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
I spent some time in hospital last month. Both tea and coffee were better than church. Though the coffee wasn't very good.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
If you go too high up the candle, of course, a miracle occurs and the coffee turns into GIN.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Depends on your tea, Mama Thomas. Don't try asking for this from Yankees, who will look at you as though you've sprouted horns in your head, but here in the American South tea is drunk sweetened, over ice. And it is the best drink in the whole world.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Gwalchmai
Shipmate
# 17802
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Posted
Our church recently acquired a commercial filter coffee machine, so we now have proper coffee after the service - better than most Anglican churches I have worshiped in.It does mean that people new to the coffee rota have to be trained in how to use it.
However, I like the idea of champagne for festivals.
Posts: 133 | From: England | Registered: Aug 2013
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Common conversation with cafe staff
Jengie: May I have a black Americano/coffee?
Staff: Do you want milk in that?
It really is deeply ingrained.
Jengie
When did 'Americano' enter the language? I am sure I never encountered it before my last couple of trips home. I tried it, and diagnosed it as 'coffee'.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Common conversation with cafe staff
Jengie: May I have a black Americano/coffee?
Staff: Do you want milk in that?
It really is deeply ingrained.
Jengie
When did 'Americano' enter the language? I am sure I never encountered it before my last couple of trips home. I tried it, and diagnosed it as 'coffee'.
The OED says it dates from the 70s. And there is a difference between it and say, filter coffee - an americano is an espresso with hot water added after brewing, filter/drip/non-espresso coffee is brewed with more water from the start.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Depends on your tea, Mama Thomas. Don't try asking for this from Yankees, who will look at you as though you've sprouted horns in your head, but here in the American South tea is drunk sweetened, over ice. And it is the best drink in the whole world.
Southern sweet tea is barely tea though - it's tea-flavoured sugary water. Sugar in tea is usually a bad idea, unless it's chai.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
Don't order tea in the US, (though I hear there is a place in Manhattan where it is quaffable.)
I've never seen even better grades of tea bags available for church coffees.
[sekrit] I have a list of names and addresses(including mine) where you can have real Tea™! Lovely loose leaf stuff brewed in a warmed teapot. Find one of these people, drink tea before or after the service, and skip the church's brown colored tepid water.[/sekrit]
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Well, you can make good tea with bags - as long as the water is properly hot and the vessel you brew it in is large and insulated enough. The crime against pleasure is brewing tea with water that is either merely warm to start with or loses heat too quickly.
And used teabags are vile.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Ken's right. A used tea bag is ok in the compost, but that's about it. As with any tea, a tea bag demands freshly boiled and boiling water, a warmed vessel to brew it in and preferably a lid for the vessel to keep it hot.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
An americano is indeed an espresso with hot water added - often quite a lot more hot water than you might actually want. I was told it came about through the American soldiers thinking the coffee they encountered in Europe during the war was too strong, and wanting it weaker. It would be nice to be able to get a black coffee that wasn't either espresso or americano, somewhere in between in a way that retained much of the flavour, when you're having coffee out.
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Agreed.
I am wondering that if Starbucks do a short cappuccino then maybe they can do a short Americano.
Or do you order a small with an extra shot?
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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