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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Morning Office Etiquette
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
There's a new employee at work, on a short-term contract (intitiallY) and he was given the empty desk next to me.
When he comes into the office in the morning, he sits down next to me and says nothing. No "Good Morning" or "Hello." Not one word. I made an effort to say it first a few times, and he reacts very strangely like he finds it awkward to engage in such pleasantries. I am no Miss Manners but I find it rude to sit down next to someone all day and not even greet them. He has no problem in the slightest asking me how to adjust his PC monitor or to look over and ask what I am working on - so I know he can speak!
Am I being too uptight here, or is this guy a bit rude and/or lacking in social graces?
And what should I do about it? I feel uncomfortable sitting next to him all day and not saying a basic greeting, but as mentioned when I initiate it seems to make him uncomfortable.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Beethoven
Ship's deaf genius
# 114
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Posted
It does seem very odd to me - on the days that I'm in a different office, I still say good morning to my colleague on the front desk as I go past. The idea of not greeting the person I'll sit next to for the whole day is very strange! It suggests a lack of social graces to me - but whether that's through upbringing or nature is anyone's guess.
What to do about it? I suppose that's up to you. You could either continue to greet him, and not worry about whether this discomforts him, or accept that he doesn't want to exchange even the briefest morning pleasantries...
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Who wants to be a rock anyway?
toujours gai!
Posts: 1309 | From: Here (and occasionally there) | Registered: May 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Gosh...I thought my colleagues were taciturn but I at least get a "Hello" in the morning, if little else.
I personally find it hard to not go through such rituals and I would probably keeping doing it, out of habit/reaction; but if he seems uncomfortable I think I'd try and stop: as hard as that would be. I'm also the kind of person who'd offer to make a cup of tea/coffee to a new/shy person, in the hope of making them feel they belong, but it seems like he is happy to talk if he needs something/wants to know something. Very odd.
Good luck.
[ 29. January 2014, 10:29: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
And here I was, thinking the op was about when someone else rattles through the Morning Office prayers without stopping to include others present.
My Office problems are obviously a little different to yours. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
seekingsister - is it possible that your new neighbour has Asperger's Syndrome or something similar, and is unaware of the impact of his lack of social graces? If so, speaking as an Aspie, please cut him a bit of slack - he may be inwardly very stressed in an unfamiliar environment, but an Aspie would give few/unclear outward signals that this is happening.
[ 29. January 2014, 11:09: Message edited by: Oferyas ]
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I'd continue to say "Good morning": whether or not such commonplace pleasantries make him appear uncomfortable is irrelevant.
There is a difference between shyness and gracelessness - this falls into the latter category.
If he has managed to get so far in life without acquiring even such basic courtesy then one can only wonder at the forebearance of people he has encountered previously; but for you not to greet him as you do others means your tacit (!) approval of his rudeness.
From what you say he seems to think he only needs to speak when he wants something - this would be something we'd find unacceptable in a sulky teenager and is not something that should be allowed to go unchallenged in an adult.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
I was waitng for a friend a few years ago in a high-flying tecnological-science-y government office. It was the end of the day. One person got up from his desk and walked out (ie left for home) without a word and then a woman left saying cheerily "'Night all!" and nobody responded.
I told my friend and she said the whole office were all geniuses with varying degrees of social skills and "you just got used to it".
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Meg the Red
Shipmate
# 11838
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Posted
I used to work for a (non-Aspie) woman who stated she didn't greet people in the morning because she found it entirely too much trouble. She made exceptions for a couple of her favourite employees, but ignored everyone else. Eventually, she was called on the carpet by the head honcho because her rudeness to staff had spread to members of our volunteer board, who were rightly offended.
OTOH, we have a young computing contractor who spends a few days a month in our office. He's very shy and will not initiate a greeting, but we make sure to acknowledge him when he arrives, and to bring him a share of any goodies people bring into the office. It's taken a few months, but he's starting to trust us. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Chocoholic Canuckistani Cyclopath
Posts: 1126 | From: Rat Creek | Registered: Sep 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Do consider both deafness and a touch of autism. I'd add faceblindness, but if you are in your usual chair he would still know who you are ...
Try a wave of the hand, maybe? And if that doesn't work, charitably assume there's a real disability of some sort and go on with your day. No sensible person deliberately snubs coworkers at a new job for no reason.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
seekingsister, you could simply have someone with no smalltalk whatsoever. Maybe he is no good at mornings or is waiting to be introduced.
Our place has plenty of short-term contractors and we've recruited plenty too, and an announcement comes round that Joe Stoat has joined the such-and-such team, make him welcome but without a photo so no one has a clue what he looks like. While everyone is supposed to wear a badge many clip it to their trousers or, deliberately, place the badge upside down in the holder.
And if your man hasn't had many opportunities in the past, he's probably afraid of making a mistake, hence the reticence.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
maybe he is just an extreme introvert. I am one myself. I do say "good morning" to co-workers because when I was little that's what Desert Mummy told me was the polite thing to do.
And I agree that a minimum of etiquette is necessary in a work environment.
But every time I greet someone I am scared to death that that person might take it as a clue to start a conversation ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
whereas I just want to get on with my work and/or attend to My Inner World (which as a rule I find more interesting and entertaining than the Outer World...)
So, it's not necessarily rude, just bad manners. Just let them be.
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
Posts: 733 | Registered: Apr 2008
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fabula rasa
Shipmate
# 11436
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Posted
I have a rather different take on this. I have excellent social skills, but simply can't bear interacting first thing in the morning. I am much more comfortable sliding in quietly and having an hour or so to warm up before having to engage in social niceties. I've struggled with depression since childhood, and difficulties with mornings is a classic symptom--depressives tend to function much better later on in the day.
I try to avoid morning interaction just because I often find it so overwhelming and exhausting.
Posts: 465 | From: scepter'd isle | Registered: May 2006
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
He has no problem in the slightest asking me how to adjust his PC monitor or to look over and ask what I am working on - so I know he can speak!
Does he say "please" when he does?
And "thank you" afterwards?
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Does he say "please" when he does?
And "thank you" afterwards?
I don't think he's said please but probably thank you - at least when he asked for my stapler I think he said thank you.
He doesn't really speak with anyone in the office so I'm sure it's not personal but rather he just lacks manners.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
seekingsister, you could simply have someone with no smalltalk whatsoever. Maybe he is no good at mornings or is waiting to be introduced.
I think it's the no smalltalk thing.
When he first joined it was the second day of sitting next to me that I said "Hi my name is ..." He literally just sat down and didn't even say hello or look at me. It was like we were on a bus sat next to each other rather than professional colleagues.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
The advantage of etiquette and conventions is that you don't have to think of what to say. That is a great advantage for us introverts.
If he didn't say "please" it is just bad manners.
I'm introverted. I have great difficulty making conversation at times. I can't remember if I said "Hello" when I worked in an office.
But I am fed up seeing being introverted used on SoF as an excuse for various behaviour.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
You think they said thank you??? I'm sure if they had you would have remembered.
Saying "good morning" isn't smalltalk - its just a simple salutation that most people acquire by the age of, ooh, 10.
This is just boorish. I'd be inclined to treat his requests for office equipment with the same courtesy that he shows to your salutation - with silence. Then if he repeats the request, I'd gently, but firmly, point out that I'm not some office kit lending scheme but a person.
Or just address the air above his head and opine "
Politeness is the policy of princes and the courtesy of kings." - I'm not sure who coined this but he should get the gist...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
seekingsister: quote:
When he first joined it was the second day of sitting next to me that I said "Hi my name is ..." He literally just sat down and didn't even say hello or look at me. It was like we were on a bus sat next to each other rather than professional colleagues.
Sounds like bad manners to me, but I'm struggling to understand the distinction Desert Daughter draws between bad manners and rudeness... did you mean 'Don't take it personally if he behaves that way to everyone', DD?
Could be Asperger's, I suppose (IANAP). But as venbede says, a lot of introverts find 'scripted' interactions like saying 'Good morning' comforting. You know what's expected of you.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
No sensible person deliberately snubs coworkers at a new job for no reason.
That's the thing that makes it so odd. We had several new people join recently and he is the only one who acts so strangely. The others are quite keen to introduce themselves, ask questions, etc.
It's possible that he sees the short contract as simply a temporary stop and has no interest in staying here long-term, hence his lack of interaction with us.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
...maybe your co-worker is Finnish ???? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
Posts: 733 | Registered: Apr 2008
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
If he's thinking he'll only be with your company for a short while, that does not excuse him from polite behavior. IMO
I would probably greet him every morning with a smile and say good morning, then get on with my work. Sometimes people take a while to catch on, although you would think it would have happened before now, wouldn't you?
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
In my days in Terra Cubicula about half of us proceeded silently into our little cages. Most were anglophone. Francophone colleagues always always greeted each other with cheery Ça vas? and Bonjours. Africans normally edged into the cubicle and made a (usually) weather-related observation in greeting, Chinese were silent, south Asians and South Africans would give something out of Bertie Wooster for a greeting (What Ho! Topping, old chap!-- I kid you not-- I do not invent this at all). Parsing it further, I realize that most of the silent folk were anglophone Canadians, particularly Ontarian, but one could always rely on a Maritimer for a moment of chat as they stood there with their paper cup of cold Tim Horton's coffee, with the ice and snow from their coats melting on my carpet.
Newly-minted management trainees were always chipper for a few weeks as they had been told that good managers were friendly with their charges, but as soon as they discovered that managers generally ignored us, they soon fell into line.
Those newly returned from the Camino to Santiago would go about embracing all, enquiring after their blisters in badly-accented Castilian, but usually a quiet visit from Human Resources would set them back into the groove of what was acceptable.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
The fellow is socially awkward. It happens. The suggested responses seem inordinately punitive IMHO. We have no idea why he is so awkward, I doubt it's intentional, and he most certainly is already punished in the myriad ways that social awkwardness disadvantages one. It's not hurting you, I see no reason to pile on by responding to simple requests with silence or any other acts of retribution. I would just continue on with your work with grace.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Sure it could all be worse. You could have someone determined to tell you how their weekend went/opinion of their team's performance/doings and opinions of people of whom you know nothing and care less.
I used to have a job which obliged me to start work at least an hour before the rest of the office, and one compensation was not having go interact with anyone first thing.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
I would probably greet him every morning with a smile and say good morning, then get on with my work. Sometimes people take a while to catch on, although you would think it would have happened before now, wouldn't you?
Yes I think I'll just make the effort and hope he learns.
And for those wondering if it's a cultural thing, he is English and appears to be in his late 30s. Most everyone else from a variety of backgrounds (British, American, Indian, Caribbean, Dutch) says "good morning" and "good night" at least to those within earshot. Except for the one Australian who loudly shouts "Good morning everyone!! How ya goin!!!"
I had a former boss who was Eastern European and he had a HUGE issue with people not saying good morning, to the point of actually telling someone off for it. He took it as a personal insult if someone sat down near him without saying a greeting.
I've been told that saying goodbye without leaving is variously called the Irish Goodbye or (from a French colleague so grain of salt) the English Goodbye.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Move everything on his desk into the middle and torch it. Then see if he makes a comment to a burnt hole in the desk.
Seriously, it may be shyness, or a mental health issue, or it may be he knows that he is only there for a short time, something he does a lot of, and doesn't bother to properly associate with the people he is working with - after a few, it may just prove too much and too many people.
I would say keep greeting him - he might respond, or he might not. It is antisocial, but that might not be deliberate rudeness, just carelessness.
And whatever happens, he is only there for a while. You will be free of him soon enough.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
"Good morning, [name]. How are you today?"
He'll either answer or be silent. If the latter:
"Is it that bad? I hope it gets better."
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"Good morning, [name]. How are you today?"
He'll either answer or be silent. If the latter:
"Is it that bad? I hope it gets better."
strikes me as needlessly snarky. But that's perhaps because I'm hearing my snarky self saying it.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
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Posted
Try some "open" questions - how are you finding working here, have you done this sort of work before?
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"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:.
And here I was, thinking the op was about when someone else rattles through the Morning Office prayers without stopping to include others present.
My Office problems are obviously a little different to yours.
Something like that was my first thought as well!! I wondered why it wasn't in Eccles.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
And what should I do about it? I feel uncomfortable sitting next to him all day and not saying a basic greeting, but as mentioned when I initiate it seems to make him uncomfortable.
The last sentence is the clincher. You say that greeting him seems to make him uncomfortable (some shy people are quite grateful for a friendly word): it suggests to me that possibly he isn't comfortable with women. How is he with other men, and his own peer group - more relaxed?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
"Good morning, [name]. How are you today?"
He'll either answer or be silent. If the latter:
"Is it that bad? I hope it gets better."
Oh the old "if you aren't exactly as outgoing and jolly as me then something must be wrong with you" line. I've commented before about how annoying it is when people tell you to smile more. This little quip would get a similar annoyed reaction from me.
But at least he might talk to you for a bit.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Might I echo Oferyas from upthread? I will have to be careful what I say, as I have no 'official' diagnosis, but my Social Worker wife, who has made a study of ASD conditions tells me that I show many of the signs.
I am probably borderline Aspergers. I am an intuitive Engineer, by which I mean that, without any formal training, I successfully earn a living as a motion control Engineer (among other things). For some of us, our brains are wired in such a fashion that engineering is a natural way through life. What I have observed over years of studying other sufferers / engineers is that social interaction is not a strong point.
I have to remember to have my social head on in the morning or I will behave in much the same way as your colleague. It is not deliberate rudeness or even pig-ignorance. It simply doesn't enter my thinking to greet people - I have to remember to do it quite deliberately.
Put like this, it probably doesn't make a great deal of sense, but it (sort of) reflects my experience of day-to-day life. I am not a great communicator, unless engineering is involved, as I find communication is a significant effort. I imagine that I am seen as a bit of a cold fish - certainly I have few friends.
Cut your colleague a bit of slack - it's possible he is ASD and doesn't yet know it.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I can't imagine not saying at least "hello" to my colleagues, usually with a brief "how are you?" added for good measure, but I'm fortunate to work with friendly people.
I don't think you should stop saying hello, even if you don't say anything else; surely no matter how shy or graceless he is he'll eventually get used to it and maybe even respond one day.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Look, at this point I'd put good money on it that he's on the autistic spectrum somewhere. That being the case, there's no point in either taking it personally or trying to cure it. It is what it is. He is what he is. Live around his disability, and if you have the charity to spare, try to shut down any snarkiness that erupts among your coworkers over the issue.
It isn't bad manners plain and simple. If it were, he would be behaving like an ass all the time, not just at greetings. For example, he'd certainly not say "thank you," and his body language would be expressing contempt rather than indifference. Trust me, I'm working with one of THOSE right now, o joy! Bad manners (in the sense of deliberate rudeness) can be felt. The fact that you are puzzled rather than simply angry says that something else is going on, and your radar has picked up that fact.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
...
I've been told that saying goodbye without leaving is variously called the Irish Goodbye or (from a French colleague so grain of salt) the English Goodbye.
It's also known as French Leave
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Look, at this point I'd put good money on it that he's on the autistic spectrum somewhere. That being the case, there's no point in either taking it personally or trying to cure it. It is what it is. He is what he is. Live around his disability, and if you have the charity to spare, try to shut down any snarkiness that erupts among your coworkers over the issue.
It isn't bad manners plain and simple. If it were, he would be behaving like an ass all the time, not just at greetings. For example, he'd certainly not say "thank you," and his body language would be expressing contempt rather than indifference. Trust me, I'm working with one of THOSE right now, o joy! Bad manners (in the sense of deliberate rudeness) can be felt. The fact that you are puzzled rather than simply angry says that something else is going on, and your radar has picked up that fact.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
The reason may well be autism, and it may well be charitable to assume so.
The behaviour is still bad manners, whatever the reason. But there are far nastier examples of bad manners around.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
Would it be worth a conversation?
"Excuse, I want to talk. I can't help noticing that when I say hello in the morning you don't respond. I've come to the conclusion that you aren't being deliberately rude, that it's just how you are. All the same, if it's possible I'd appreciate a hello back."
And then be charitable and listen to what he says.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Lamb Chopped: quote:
Bad manners (in the sense of deliberate rudeness) can be felt.
OK, now I'm really confused... I have these terms the other way round:
Bad manners = this is how he behaves to everyone, either because his brain is wired differently or because he thinks/has been taught that this is the right way to behave.
Rudeness = someone whose manners are normally impeccable deliberately deciding to break the rules to show contempt for the person they are interacting with.
So when I said 'it sounds like bad manners' I meant more or less the same as you did, Lamb Chopped, even though I used the other word.
Seekingsister, if you do decide to follow mdijon's suggestion of asking him directly why he doesn't reply to your greetings it might be worth commenting that it seems to make him uncomfortable and asking if he'd like you to stop doing it?
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
The reason may well be autism
Of it may not. We are none of us in a position to say, and advising seekingsister to take specific courses of action towards him based on our assumptions is probably not a way to go.
Firenze
Heaven Host
[ 30. January 2014, 11:41: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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kaytee
Shipmate
# 3482
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Posted
As others have said, it's unlikely he's deliberately being rude.
When I was in my teens, my schoolfriend told me that her parents thought I was a bit rude, because I didn't say hello and goodbye to them. It had honestly never occurred to me that they would even be interested in speaking to me, and on the contrary, I thought I would be bothering them and interrupting whatever they were doing with unnecessary greetings.
I was embarrassed (as was my friend!) but having been made aware, I was then able to make a conscious effort to greet them in future.
Even having learned that much, when I was in my twenties I was still surprised when my colleagues would make small talk, ask me about my weekend plans etc and expect more than a one word answer. It was only during this period that I started to realise that this is how relationships are built. I am sure my mother tried to teach me to be polite, but as my parents were not very sociable themselves I suppose I just didn't absorb this kind of behaviour.
So, although you may think that your colleague is old enough to know better, as others have suggested, there may be reasons why these kinds of things don't come naturally to him.
Part of me thinks it would be worth you mentioning it, as it might help him in other areas of life. Another part of me thinks that might make him even more uncomfortable. But perhaps if you word it carefully so that it doesn't sound too personal it would give him the opportunity to think about it.
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'Lying is a vital survival skill – and a terrible habit.' ~ The Doctor
Posts: 152 | From: Hertfordshire, UK | Registered: Oct 2002
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
The reason may well be autism
Of it may not. We are none of us in a position to say, and advising seekingsister to take specific courses of action towards him based on our assumptions is probably not a way to go.
Firenze
Heaven Host
I totally agree. I was not advising any course of action.
I don't think he's autistic, just English. And he does respond to SS's greeting. She thinks he finds it awkward, but that's how it comes over to her. Just live and let live.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
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Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
There's a new employee at work, on a short-term contract (intitiallY) and he was given the empty desk next to me.
When he comes into the office in the morning, he sits down next to me and says nothing. No "Good Morning" or "Hello." Not one word. I made an effort to say it first a few times, and he reacts very strangely like he finds it awkward to engage in such pleasantries. I am no Miss Manners but I find it rude to sit down next to someone all day and not even greet them. He has no problem in the slightest asking me how to adjust his PC monitor or to look over and ask what I am working on - so I know he can speak!
Am I being too uptight here, or is this guy a bit rude and/or lacking in social graces?
And what should I do about it? I feel uncomfortable sitting next to him all day and not saying a basic greeting, but as mentioned when I initiate it seems to make him uncomfortable.
If it makes him uncomfortable, don't do it. Making someone uncomfortable seems a much worse thing to me than someone not saying a greeting in the morning.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Darllenwr:
Might I echo Oferyas from upthread? I will have to be careful what I say, as I have no 'official' diagnosis, but my Social Worker wife, who has made a study of ASD conditions tells me that I show many of the signs.
I am probably borderline Aspergers. I am an intuitive Engineer, by which I mean that, without any formal training, I successfully earn a living as a motion control Engineer (among other things). For some of us, our brains are wired in such a fashion that engineering is a natural way through life. What I have observed over years of studying other sufferers / engineers is that social interaction is not a strong point.
I have to remember to have my social head on in the morning or I will behave in much the same way as your colleague. It is not deliberate rudeness or even pig-ignorance. It simply doesn't enter my thinking to greet people - I have to remember to do it quite deliberately.
Put like this, it probably doesn't make a great deal of sense, but it (sort of) reflects my experience of day-to-day life. I am not a great communicator, unless engineering is involved, as I find communication is a significant effort. I imagine that I am seen as a bit of a cold fish - certainly I have few friends.
Cut your colleague a bit of slack - it's possible he is ASD and doesn't yet know it.
You sound like me. I was a computer engineer doing fault diagnosis and rectification long before I had any formal IT training. It's quite frustrating; what most of the human race considers obvious has often never occurred to me; what I think obvious everyone else thinks is obscure. Wrong planet.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Dormouse
Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954
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Posted
Personally I would greet him when he arrived with a cheery "Hi" or "hello" but leave it at that. If it was the culture in the office I'd offer to make/fetch him a coffee when I went to get one, but other than that I wouldn't bother him too much - unless I needed to interact for profesional purposes. if he's uncomfortable, it seems mean to push it, but by saying a "hello" that doesn't require an answer (but is open to one) you seem friendly without overbearing.
I think it's been accepted that I don't kiss everyone on my French language school, because I feel uncomfortable doing it...but a cheery "Hi!"/ "Ca va?" etc is fine.
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40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk
Posts: 3042 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
If the worker was German, or the sort of Prussian I have as relatives, a Good Morning usually generates a scowl and apparently a "what's so good about it" thought. They feel burdened by cheerful morning people like me. Though now my relatives just laugh at me.
The key is that others' behaviour is generated by themselves and often has no connection with interactions or attempted interactions.
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Wrong planet.
I have met a few Zaldan-like people, who are infuriated by courtesy and social niceties. And others who find informality troubling.
[ 30. January 2014, 14:19: Message edited by: no prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
There's a new employee at work, on a short-term contract (intitiallY) and he was given the empty desk next to me.
When he comes into the office in the morning, he sits down next to me and says nothing. No "Good Morning" or "Hello." Not one word. I made an effort to say it first a few times, and he reacts very strangely like he finds it awkward to engage in such pleasantries. I am no Miss Manners but I find it rude to sit down next to someone all day and not even greet them. He has no problem in the slightest asking me how to adjust his PC monitor or to look over and ask what I am working on - so I know he can speak!
Am I being too uptight here, or is this guy a bit rude and/or lacking in social graces?
And what should I do about it? I feel uncomfortable sitting next to him all day and not saying a basic greeting, but as mentioned when I initiate it seems to make him uncomfortable.
If it makes him uncomfortable, don't do it. Making someone uncomfortable seems a much worse thing to me than someone not saying a greeting in the morning.
But why should his comfort be privileged over seekingsister's?
I am not the most sociable person but I would also be uncomfortable spending all day sitting next to somebody who did not return a basic greeting. I think mdijon's suggestion is wise, if you can do it, and let him know that he is making you uncomfortable.
Do you know what do your other colleagues think?
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
There's a new employee at work, on a short-term contract (intitiallY) and he was given the empty desk next to me.
When he comes into the office in the morning, he sits down next to me and says nothing. No "Good Morning" or "Hello." Not one word. I made an effort to say it first a few times, and he reacts very strangely like he finds it awkward to engage in such pleasantries. I am no Miss Manners but I find it rude to sit down next to someone all day and not even greet them. He has no problem in the slightest asking me how to adjust his PC monitor or to look over and ask what I am working on - so I know he can speak!
Am I being too uptight here, or is this guy a bit rude and/or lacking in social graces?
And what should I do about it? I feel uncomfortable sitting next to him all day and not saying a basic greeting, but as mentioned when I initiate it seems to make him uncomfortable.
If it makes him uncomfortable, don't do it. Making someone uncomfortable seems a much worse thing to me than someone not saying a greeting in the morning.
But why should his comfort be privileged over seekingsister's?
Human kindness? Christian compassion? Empathy?
Again, we don't have any idea what is going on with this guy, whether the obstacles that are keeping him so aloof are deliberate or involuntary, conscious or unconscious, changeable or unchangeable. What we do know is that this kind of social awkwardness usually comes at a high cost (look at how much heat this thread has generated) so if that social cost hasn't already altered his behavior (if only for utilitarian reasons), chances are your drawing attention to it won't either.
At the very least, I don't see any call to add to the social cost he's already paying by piling on snarky come-backs. A gentle inquiry as has been suggested might be helpful--or it might make him even more self-conscious and uncomfortable. IMHO the advice to proceed cautiously is a compassionate one
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
To me, the obvious thing seems to be to keep saying 'good morning' every morning and leave it at that.
If saying good morning is just something that doesn't occur to him, you are reminding him.
If it is neurological, then you are beginning to build a framework within which he might start to feel comfortable.
If he is shy, you are maintaining a low level, non pressured friendliness, without demanding further conversation.
If he is just downright rude, then you are, at least, showing him you do not intend your behaviour to be affected by his rudeness.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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