Thread: Happy to help Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
TubaMirum, you should be ashamed of yourself. Not for your theological views, which are eminently arguable in Purg. You should be ashamed of dumping on a fellow human being what, if it were true, would be virtually the worst news possible--and then adding "Happy to help."

What kind of a human being are you? This just astonishes me. link here
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
Actually "HTH" means "Hope that helps."

Didja happen to notice the nasty, arrogant, dismissive intro that "Taliesin" started out with at all? That "if you're a trendy liberal who can't see why people fuss about marriage in general and same sex marriage in particular, then obviously I'm not talking to you, savvy?"

In other words, for "Taliesin" (and for you, apparently), only her problems are serious; "same-sex marriage" is just stupidly "trendy" and kind of really beneath her even bothering with.

Because, little Lamb, as I noted, same-sex couples are in fact absolutely expected to break up their families in order to be part of the idiot Church; how about taking some notice of THAT, for a change? It happens every single fucking day; some people really DO break up their families.

Don't notice you getting the vapors over THAT.

And no, I have no sympathy at all for "Taliesin"; she started off a thread in Purgatory - a debate board - by snottily dismissing the pain of millions of OTHER people.

And frankly, I have no interest in talking with you, either.

[ 08. March 2014, 20:43: Message edited by: TubaMirum ]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
And frankly, I have no interest in talking with you, either.
Then why did you do it? Form of self-flagellation for Lent?

And the way to register your displeasure with someone else's unconcern for the feelings of others is to be unconcerned about feelings. Clearly then you think it's okay in some cases to be unconcerned about feelings, as long as one picks the right things about which to trash others' feelings. Clearly gay families are off-limits, but people anguishing about divorce and remarriage are fair game.

You disgust me.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
You disgust me.
Likewise. Deeply.

And if "Taliesin" is in "anguish," why the hell is posting on Purgatory? Frankly, I'm not at all buying the "anguish" thing, given her snotty, arrogant attitude.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
(In any case, if I remember correctly, Ship of Fools won't allow gay people to post about their "anguish" anywhere except in Dead Horses. What fucking hypocrisy.)

[ 08. March 2014, 21:04: Message edited by: TubaMirum ]
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
BTW, what is the fucking problem here?

The Bible DOES clearly say that divorce and remarriage is adultery. Just as the Bible DOES clearly say that homosexuality blah blah blah blah....

This is just another case of "one law for me, another for Thee." IOW: it's completely typical.

"Taliesin" starts off by telling us that same-sex relationships are just not worth talking about, whereas HER problems are really serious.

Then she tells us who can respond to her or not. On an open debate board.

Fuck that, and fuck her. Perhaps she'll actually think about somebody besides herself at some point.
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
Hello darling, (tubamirum) I've just popped by to invite you to fuck off, righteously.

I've no idea what you thought you were doing, wading in with your completely deranged opinions, but I wish you'd read a thread before you post.

You couldn't be more wrong, if you were selling mouse traps for moon visits. What a moron.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Likewise. Deeply.
I see you're taking tu quoque lessons from IngoB. And scoring top marks.

quote:
BTW, what is the fucking problem here?

The Bible DOES clearly say that divorce and remarriage is adultery. Just as the Bible DOES clearly say that homosexuality blah blah blah blah....
And "ignoring the fact that it's the mode and not the message that is being objected to" lessons from the same source.

I'll bet you two can finish each other's sentences.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
Hello darling, (tubamirum) I've just popped by to invite you to fuck off, righteously.

I've no idea what you thought you were doing, wading in with your completely deranged opinions, but I wish you'd read a thread before you post.

You couldn't be more wrong, if you were selling mouse traps for moon visits. What a moron.
Fuck off, yourself. You wrote the opening post yourself; nobody forced you to say what you said there. And no, I'm not required to slog through a million other posts if I'm responding to what you said there.

I'd be interesting in hearing, BTW, why you felt the need to include a gratuitous, dismissive throw-away comment about "same-sex marriage" in your post - since it has literally nothing at all to do with the topic, and since you claim I "couldn't be more wrong." Not honestly buying that, either, sorry.

(I suppose you could just be an insensitive dunderhead, without any idea of how what you say comes across....)
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Likewise. Deeply.
I see you're taking tu quoque lessons from IngoB. And scoring top marks.

quote:
BTW, what is the fucking problem here?

The Bible DOES clearly say that divorce and remarriage is adultery. Just as the Bible DOES clearly say that homosexuality blah blah blah blah....
And "ignoring the fact that it's the mode and not the message that is being objected to" lessons from the same source.

I'll bet you two can finish each other's sentences.
Oh, boy: more lessons in "debate" from mousethief. You just really love to hear yourself talk, don't you?

Do let me know if you think you might actually discuss a topic at some point; that would certainly be a nice, refreshing change.
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
If you feel that way, why didn't you call the church as a whole to Hell? Or God? Or Taliesin?

Why take a very public and nasty dump all over another person's life?
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
The OP said this:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:

And if you're a trendy liberal who can't see why people fuss about marriage in general and same sex marriage in particular, then obviously I'm not talking to you, savvy?
Which I found rude.
However, subsequent posting on the thread by Taliesin softened my interpretation.
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
You are committing adultery (Luke 16:18); separate from your husband at once.
HTH.
This post appears to show nothing but anger and fails to engage the thread as it had developed by this post. I think my Purg response is as contentious as I wish to be so far.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
If you feel that way, why didn't you call the church as a whole to Hell? Or God? Or Taliesin?

Why take a very public and nasty dump all over another person's life?
First of all, Hell is stupid, and I don't "call people" there.

Second, I took no "dump" on anybody's life; please let's not get all drama-queen about this. I simply responded to the question asked in the opening post; it was a perfectly legitimate response, in fact. Particularly when a person decides to be gratuitously nasty about something entirely unrelated to the question in the opening post itself.

In any case, it's a debate board, and "Taliesin" is perfectly free to ignore me. And for the hundredth time: why bring up a source of "anguish" in Purgatory? I'm just not buying this whole drama, sorry.

Somebody else, please note BTW, wondered if I was actually being serious. You, OTOH, decided to "take me to Hell." And of course mousethief came along in short order to blather on, the way he does.

IOW, everything's just as it was 5 years ago when I was last here. Sheesh....
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Actually "HTH" means "Hope that helps."

Didja happen to notice the nasty, arrogant, dismissive intro that "Taliesin" started out with at all? That "if you're a trendy liberal who can't see why people fuss about marriage in general and same sex marriage in particular, then obviously I'm not talking to you, savvy?"

In other words, for "Taliesin" (and for you, apparently), only her problems are serious; "same-sex marriage" is just stupidly "trendy" and kind of really beneath her even bothering with.

Because, little Lamb, as I noted, same-sex couples are in fact absolutely expected to break up their families in order to be part of the idiot Church; how about taking some notice of THAT, for a change? It happens every single fucking day; some people really DO break up their families.

Don't notice you getting the vapors over THAT.

And no, I have no sympathy at all for "Taliesin"; she started off a thread in Purgatory - a debate board - by snottily dismissing the pain of millions of OTHER people.

And frankly, I have no interest in talking with you, either.
What the "fuck" is it about "quotes"? (or should that be "quotes?"?). This isn't the BBC News "website".

I don't think they make arguments "more convincing?, but they definitely make the "quote user" look more of a "tosspot".
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The OP said this:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:

And if you're a trendy liberal who can't see why people fuss about marriage in general and same sex marriage in particular, then obviously I'm not talking to you, savvy?
Which I found rude.
However, subsequent posting on the thread by Taliesin softened my interpretation.
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
You are committing adultery (Luke 16:18); separate from your husband at once.
HTH.
This post appears to show nothing but anger and fails to engage the thread as it had developed by this post. I think my Purg response is as contentious as I wish to be so far.
I responded to the opening post itself, which I quoted in my response.

That seems clear enough. "Taliesin" asked a question; I answered it. That's the process on discussion boards, as I understand it.

Furthermore, I was specifically instructed that I was NOT to respond, as she was NOT talking to me. Why in the world would I bother to "engage the thread" at that point?
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
What the "fuck" is it about "quotes"? (or should that be "quotes?"?). This isn't the BBC News "website".

I don't think they make arguments "more convincing?, but they definitely make the "quote user" look more of a "tosspot".
I only put extra "quotes" around the name "Taliesin." Otherwise my "quotes" were all "fine" and in fact "necessary" in order to convey "meaning."

Sorry you can't handle that. I enjoyed it, though, and will probably continue to do it.

You guys really need to learn to talk ABOUT something at some point, I think, instead of continually advising other people how to argue or write or think. It gets "tiring" listening to you.

Of course, I have noticed that "religious" people sure do love giving "advice" to others....
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
I don't normally post in Hell. I'm not going to say anything more on this thread apart from what follows. If this provokes anyone, I don't intend to respond, and may not even come back to read it.

If one had read Taliesin's original post and her subsequent contributions, it would have been quite clear that she was writing about, and seeking shipmate's views on something that is a personal anguish for her. This is, that she is divorced. She has remarried. Her first husband is still living. Some people have been saying, or implying to her, that she isn't really married to her present husband, that she should leave him and either be single or return to her original husband either now, or should he ever happen to call her back again. There are some biblical texts and some peoples' interpretations of them that would encourage that view but most of us would regard it as personally and humanly a road to disaster. It would also be breaking solemn commitments she has entered into. It was also clear that she had parted from her first husband in some pain, and that she loves and has built a successful new life with her new husband. There are also children who would be affected by such a course.

Even those who advocate the absolute RC position normally recognise that this is hard counsel, and the pain this will cause.

As we are on a Hell thread, I think I'm entitled, without breaking ship rules, to say that for anyone, suddenly to butt in with a simple absolute statement, untempered by any pastoral sensitivity, even if they were someone who believed in that teaching, is totally unacceptable, and beyond the pale.

Same sex relationships were not part of the discussion and are irrelevant to it. I can't see, and am not particularly interested to find out, why anyone should maintain either that they are relevant, or that their personal views on them entitles them to trample over someone else's pastoral raw nerves.

As we on the Hell board, and I can use hell language, here goes. Having a personal issue about same sex relationships no more entitles one to be a plonker than having a personal issue about any other subject.

If a person can't see any of this, or can't see why I'm saying it, he or she is not the sort of person I want to meet or spend time with.

I stand by what I said to Taliesin on the 'real' thread. I agree with Lamb Chopped. I've said my piece on this one and will now shut up.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Do let me know if you think you might actually discuss a topic at some point; that would certainly be a nice, refreshing change.
Get your head out of your ass, then. I discuss topics on many boards here. Perhaps, since you appear only to troll for things to take offense at, you haven't noticed.

quote:
IOW, everything's just as it was 5 years ago when I was last here. Sheesh....
Ah, there's the reason you don't know what I've posted. You haven't been here. Yet you skate back in and start pontificating about what I've been doing for the last 5 years. What a pathetic loser.

quote:
You guys really need to learn to talk ABOUT something at some point, I think, instead of continually advising other people how to argue or write or think. It gets "tiring" listening to you.
You should really find out something about things you shit on before shitting. We all talk about things all the time. Why don't you go away for another 5 years? We were perfectly happy without you.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Same sex relationships were not part of the discussion and are irrelevant to it. I can't see, and am not particularly interested to find out, why anyone should maintain either that they are relevant, or that their personal views on them entitles them to trample over someone else's pastoral raw nerves.
Taliesin decided, for some reason known only to her, to make same-sex marriage "part of the discussion." She said, quite plainly, that people who supported it had nothing to offer in the thread.

I didn't bring it up; she did.
 
Posted by Dark Knight (# 9415) on :
 
Enoch: [Overused]
I second MT's sentiment. TM can fuck off for another five years, and I hope that helps. I have my doubts, though.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Do let me know if you think you might actually discuss a topic at some point; that would certainly be a nice, refreshing change.
Get your head out of your ass, then. I discuss topics on many boards here. Perhaps, since you appear only to troll for things to take offense at, you haven't noticed.

quote:
IOW, everything's just as it was 5 years ago when I was last here. Sheesh....
Ah, there's the reason you don't know what I've posted. You haven't been here. Yet you skate back in and start pontificating about what I've been doing for the last 5 years. What a pathetic loser.

quote:
You guys really need to learn to talk ABOUT something at some point, I think, instead of continually advising other people how to argue or write or think. It gets "tiring" listening to you.
You should really find out something about things you shit on before shitting. We all talk about things all the time. Why don't you go away for another 5 years? We were perfectly happy without you.
You literally never shut up, do you?
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
Enoch: [Overused]
I second MT's sentiment. TM can fuck off for another five years, and I hope that helps. I have my doubts, though.
Good thing I don't give much of a shit what you think, then!

[ 08. March 2014, 22:41: Message edited by: TubaMirum ]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
You literally never shut up, do you?
Translation: "Waaah! Waaah! You won't let me have the last word! Waaaaaaaaaah!" [Waterworks]
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
You literally never shut up, do you?
Translation: "Waaah! Waaah! You won't let me have the last word! Waaaaaaaaaah!" [Waterworks]
Well, at least we all now know what motivates you....

(You do sound, BTW, kind of like a 5-year-old on this thread.)
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
[Killing me]
 
Posted by Dark Knight (# 9415) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
You literally never shut up, do you?
Translation: "Waaah! Waaah! You won't let me have the last word! Waaaaaaaaaah!" [Waterworks]
Well, at least we all now know what motivates you....

(You do sound, BTW, kind of like a 5-year-old on this thread.)
You really are about as self aware as a ceiling fan, aren't you?
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
If my name is in quotes, does it mean I am not 'really' Taliesin? As does that mean you think you are actually a tuba? Because it seems quite strange use of punctuation.

My OP was posted in dead horses, after I made the 39th post on the thread about young people leaving the church. I've never figured out how to link to specific posts.

In retrospect, the tone does look rude, but is meant to be ironic. If a person believes all sex is fine, then they are likely to tell me all is fine, and I wasn't looking for reassurance, I was trying, genuinely, to find out what churches think I should ACTUALLY DO. not hypothetically our metaphorically or ideally. And your response, that I should leave my husband to avoid adultery and further sin, is the one that no one actually advises. Except maybe the RCs.

So if you were posting honestly, I would have been interested to hear your ideas. But you weren't. So, bit pointless, really.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
You literally never shut up, do you?
Translation: "Waaah! Waaah! You won't let me have the last word! Waaaaaaaaaah!" [Waterworks]
Well, at least we all now know what motivates you....

(You do sound, BTW, kind of like a 5-year-old on this thread.)
You really are about as self aware as a ceiling fan, aren't you?
Ceiling fans aren't self-aware but they do have their uses, even if it is only to give a free ride to flies.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
You literally never shut up, do you?
Translation: "Waaah! Waaah! You won't let me have the last word! Waaaaaaaaaah!" [Waterworks]
Well, at least we all now know what motivates you....

(You do sound, BTW, kind of like a 5-year-old on this thread.)
You really are about as self aware as a ceiling fan, aren't you?
Oh, do tell me more. You seem so smart and wise.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
This juxtaposition strikes me as mildly amusing:

quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
(You do sound, BTW, kind of like a 5-year-old on this thread.)
and

quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Oh, do tell me more. You seem so smart and wise.

 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
If my name is in quotes, does it mean I am not 'really' Taliesin? As does that mean you think you are actually a tuba? Because it seems quite strange use of punctuation.

My OP was posted in dead horses, after I made the 39th post on the thread about young people leaving the church. I've never figured out how to link to specific posts.

In retrospect, the tone does look rude, but is meant to be ironic. If a person believes all sex is fine, then they are likely to tell me all is fine, and I wasn't looking for reassurance, I was trying, genuinely, to find out what churches think I should ACTUALLY DO. not hypothetically our metaphorically or ideally. And your response, that I should leave my husband to avoid adultery and further sin, is the one that no one actually advises. Except maybe the RCs.

So if you were posting honestly, I would have been interested to hear your ideas. But you weren't. So, bit pointless, really.
Well, actually, I do apologize to you if I took you the wrong way; I really DIDN'T read the rest of the thread, because I assumed you were serious that you didn't want any input from certain people "in particular."

So, I truly and honestly apologize if I was wrong about that, and I realize now how my comment might have sounded during the discussion that people are describing here.

Sorry again.

[ 08. March 2014, 23:29: Message edited by: TubaMirum ]
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
Lamb Chopped, you were right to put up this thread. I didn't do anything wrong purposefully, but it did turn out that I was wrong in the context of things, so you did the right thing here.

Sorry for what must have sounded jarring in the context of the discussion; you were right to take issue with that. (And sorry for being Hellish for awhile with you.)

[ 08. March 2014, 23:46: Message edited by: TubaMirum ]
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
And fuck you, mousethief, and the rest of you pricks.

(Not Enoch.)
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
It's very gracious of you to apologise so unreservedly, and it's illustrated to me how ambiguous and/unclear my initial post was.

I'm not sure how I feel about the use of such savage irony if you had been 'right' though.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
It's very gracious of you to apologise so unreservedly, and it's illustrated to me how ambiguous and/unclear my initial post was.

I'm not sure how I feel about the use of such savage irony if you had been 'right' though.
It really was my fault; I totally took you the wrong way. And I have been really, really angry, especially lately, at the Church and its vicious awfulness. I really would have a great deal of sympathy with what people here say you were talking about in the thread, ordinarily.

Sorry for the "Fuck you" above, too - but it's Hell, you know. You have to.

Lamb Chopped was smart to open this thread here, I guess....
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
And fuck you, mousethief, and the rest of you pricks.

(Not Enoch.)
Damn, and here I congratulated you over in the divorce thread for apologizing. Guess I was too fast; your contrition was shallower than I gave you credit for. Oh well, still better to think better of someone than they deserve than worse. The shame is thus all yours.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
And fuck you, mousethief, and the rest of you pricks.

(Not Enoch.)
Damn, and here I congratulated you over in the divorce thread for apologizing. Guess I was too fast; your contrition was shallower than I gave you credit for. Oh well, still better to think better of someone than they deserve than worse. The shame is thus all yours.
Oh, gee, mousethief; I guess you're right; how could I be so silly? This is actually definitely all about you.

And of course I should naturally be immediately so tremendously grateful now that I apparently don't "disgust" you anymore....
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Lamb Chopped, you were right to put up this thread. I didn't do anything wrong purposefully, but it did turn out that I was wrong in the context of things, so you did the right thing here.

Sorry for what must have sounded jarring in the context of the discussion; you were right to take issue with that. (And sorry for being Hellish for awhile with you.)
Forgiven.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
And of course I should naturally be immediately so tremendously grateful now that I apparently don't "disgust" you anymore....
Your behavior was pretty disgusting. For a shining moment it stopped being so, and I congratulated you. Now it's right back in the gutter.

Who said anything about grateful? I'd settle for graceful.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
And of course I should naturally be immediately so tremendously grateful now that I apparently don't "disgust" you anymore....
Your behavior was pretty disgusting. For a shining moment it stopped being so, and I congratulated you. Now it's right back in the gutter.

Who said anything about grateful? I'd settle for graceful.
[Snore]

Tell it to somebody who's interested....
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
[Disappointed]
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
First of all, Hell is stupid, and I don't "call people" there.
No it isn't - it's a useful place to air differences, as this thread shows.

Could you explain why you put people's names in "quotes"?
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Does anybody remember Amazing Grace's story about some weird-ass lady doing that to her, too? For a moment I was afraid she'd tracked her down...
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:

Sorry for the "Fuck you" above, too - but it's Hell, you know. You have to.
No you don't.

You can do, but you don't have to. Personal choice.
 
Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
I rather like it when folks kiss and make-up in Hell . Sort of makes life worth living really .

That, and a much needed blast of sunshine .
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
I rather like it when folks kiss and make-up in Hell .
Fiery kisses! [Devil]

So, time for me to be hellish to Rolyn.

Rolyn, please learn that there is no space before any full stop or comma.

The space always comes after. One space after each comma and two after each full stop, exclamation mark or question mark. Much easier to read.

Hellish thanks [Smile]
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
It's WAY too early in the morning here. I read "blast of sunshine" as "blast of..." something else.

Did someone let one in here?
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
First of all, Hell is stupid, and I don't "call people" there.
No it isn't - it's a useful place to air differences, as this thread shows.

Could you explain why you put people's names in "quotes"?
No, it's not a useful place at all. Here's what would be useful: if people have differences, they can work them out on another board, with one proviso: they must be entirely respectful to one another, and specifically may NOT say whatever they feel like saying.

In other words, the rules get MORE stringent, not less. THAT's the way to work out differences; I've seen it happen on other boards.

I know Ship of Fools just loves Hell for its entertainment value, but it's actually quite sick. People say things like "What kind of person are you?" and "You disgust me," and think there's absolutely nothing wrong with it - and then continue to scold when this is pointed out to them.

The only thing that matters in the end here is if you can get enough people to join your lynch mob and hound the victim out of town. This happens over and over again - and I'm not the first one to point this out.

I do find Taliesin's willingness to wonder about whether she had been "clear" or not to be heartening and gratifying - but nobody else here has evinced even the tiniest bit of self-doubt about this little event. Everybody's solidly convinced of their own righteousness, and absolutely sure I'm the villain.

And THAT is what Hell is about.
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
Fair enough, that's your opinion. But it's not mine.

I know another forum which didn't last due to the lack of a Hell (imv). Personal differences got in the way and there was nowhere to take them, so the hosts got heavier and heavier handed until the forum simply imploded.

Also - could you please explain why you put people's names in "quotes"?
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
The only reason Taliesin and I were able to "work out our differences" is because we both decided to ignore the bullshit and recognize where we might have been wrong. But you certainly don't need the lynch-mob atmosphere for that.

Seriously, Hell drags the rest of this site down its level. People think they just don't HAVE to be decent to anybody else. I can't count the number of really snotty, nasty comments I've been on the receiving end of here; it started, in fact, the very first time I ever commented on the site, and never got any better. There's an in-group mentality that's far, far worse here than anyplace else I've ever been - and I suspect Hell is the culprit.

I was friends with somebody here once, prior to coming to the site - but as soon as I criticized Ship of Fools along these lines, she turned on me instantly and viciously, joining up with the lynch mob. That's a problem - and who would want to be involved in such a place?

I left, so I don't really care. But really: there is something dreadfully wrong on these boards. There are some very, very nice people here - or at least, there were - but the atmosphere is simply awful generally.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Fair enough, that's your opinion. But it's not mine.

I know another forum which didn't last due to the lack of a Hell (imv). Personal differences got in the way and there was nowhere to take them, so the hosts got heavier and heavier handed until the forum simply imploded.

Also - could you please explain why you put people's names in "quotes"?
I don't, generally.
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
So what has caused you to do it so often with Taliesin?
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:

Sorry for the "Fuck you" above, too - but it's Hell, you know. You have to.
No you don't.

You can do, but you don't have to. Personal choice.
It's a joke, for God's sake.
 
Posted by QLib (# 43) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
The only reason Taliesin and I were able to "work out our differences" is because we both decided to ignore the bullshit and recognize where we might have been wrong. But you certainly don't need the lynch-mob atmosphere for that.

Seriously, Hell drags the rest of this site down its level. People think they just don't HAVE to be decent to anybody else. I can't count the number of really snotty, nasty comments I've been on the receiving end of here; it started, in fact, the very first time I ever commented on the site, and never got any better. There's an in-group mentality that's far, far worse here than anyplace else I've ever been - and I suspect Hell is the culprit.

I was friends with somebody here once, prior to coming to the site - but as soon as I criticized Ship of Fools along these lines, she turned on me instantly and viciously, joining up with the lynch mob. That's a problem - and who would want to be involved in such a place?

I left, so I don't really care. But really: there is something dreadfully wrong on these boards. There are some very, very nice people here - or at least, there were - but the atmosphere is simply awful generally.
The irony of thies is that you yourself seem to have a natural talent for generating more heat than light. I mean, reading this thread has helped me understand why you took offence at the original OP in Purg, and the thinking that underpinned your responses there, but until that point you just came over as a complete dickhead. So, seems like you may be a nice person, but you have a low flash point and express yourself in an inflammatory and generally unhelpful way - coming over, for example, as extremely theologically conservative when you are actually quite liberal. So the fact that you attract a lot of snotty, nasty comments is not simply a matter of happenstance, nor is it a reflection of the Hellishness of the Ship.
 
Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I read the thread, but didn't contribute, because of the OP. But from that thread and this it seems T didn't want to hear from either of the theological positions that would challenge her position. LC and others gave positive affirmation after which she said the thread had pretty much served its purpose for her. In which case, it was really an All Saints thread / query in disguise.

Though the nature of socially acceptabple support in All Saints is fairly narrow too.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
So what has caused you to do it so often with Taliesin?
The real question is: why have you asked about this three times now? Why are you so fixated on it?

I do think it's fascinating, BTW, that so many people are so worried about alleged "tu quoque" arguments, and quotations and grammar here - yet don't seem at all interested in the weirdness of the same-sex marriage reference (as either a joke or an example of a trifle) in a post that has nothing to do with it.

Oh, and let's see: apparently some are worried about my being "rude" in a thread.

Can anybody explain this at all? Do you just not give a damn, or what?
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
I can't count the number of really snotty, nasty comments I've been on the receiving end of here; it started, in fact, the very first time I ever commented on the site, and never got any better.
Strange that ...
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
The irony of thies is that you yourself seem to have a natural talent for generating more heat than light. I mean, reading this thread has helped me understand why you took offence at the original OP in Purg, and the thinking that underpinned your responses there, but until that point you just came over as a complete dickhead. So, seems like you may be a nice person, but you have a low flash point and express yourself in an inflammatory and generally unhelpful way - coming over, for example, as extremely theologically conservative when you are actually quite liberal. So the fact that you attract a lot of snotty, nasty comments is not simply a matter of happenstance, nor is it a reflection of the Hellishness of the Ship.
Here's the problem: I was a member of this so-called "community" for about 5 years. Yet you apparently have no recall of me. So clearly I'm not a memorable "dickhead" at all. And I explained quite clearly in my first post here what my issue was.

Further, I was not the only one to object to Taliesin's initial post, either. And still further: nobody still seems to want to address the actual issue I brought up.

Why was a dismissive reference to same-sex marriage included in the initial post for no reason whatsoever - and why was the post on Purgatory in the first place, if it was a sensitive issue?

Love that "it's definitely your fault!" thing there at the end! How many times have I seen that here, in the "circle the wagons" phase of these discussions!

And yes, I can be very straightforward when I want to be - but in fact, the snottiness I've encountered here has mostly been entirely gratuitous, and in fact one time I was simply offering a response to a request.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
I can't count the number of really snotty, nasty comments I've been on the receiving end of here; it started, in fact, the very first time I ever commented on the site, and never got any better.
Strange that ...
Let me say that again. It started the first time I commented.

Again: do you happen recall me being very nasty? I remember talking with you in the past. But obviously you don't even remember talking to me at all, even once.

If I were actually a big "dickhead" don't you think perhaps might?

[ 09. March 2014, 14:39: Message edited by: TubaMirum ]
 
Posted by QLib (# 43) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Here's the problem: I was a member of this so-called "community" for about 5 years. Yet you apparently have no recall of me. So clearly I'm not a memorable "dickhead" at all.
I hadn't noticed you'd gone missing, actually, but that's partly because, although I wouldn't say I remember you as a dickhead, I did have you down as a "wtf?/avoid" because it was difficult to get a handle on who you were, though what you were (stroppy) was clear enough.
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
Takes deep breath.

Tubamirum, people have asked why you put my name in quotes because it was a weird thing to do. Putting something in quotes suggests that it is somehow doubtful, and 'so called'. Well, taliesan is not my real name. I suspect a fair few of us need to be quoted up.

Further, in your comment to me on the divorce thread, you made a comment that is the total opposite of your genuine feeling. But people didn't know that, they took it at face value. Just as you took my reference to 'trendy liberals' as an insult rather than a 'look guys, I need to go out and find out what the other people think, ok?' It was arrogance on my part, to assume that people know who I am. Clearly, no one knows me from a hole in the ground.

Doublethink, I'm really stunned at your lack of comprehension, and a bit hurt. If you'd said, I didn't read the thread cos of the OP, then, fair enough. But to say you read it then so totally misinterpret me is worrying.

I went out to try to take Jesus literally, instead of doing our usual trick of adding 'but he didn't really mean that' to everything uncomfortable.

It does, genuinely worry me sometimes that I'm taking the 21st century ideals and retrofitting them to God. Hence enormous problems with the ot and so on. So I posted in dead horses and I was up for hearing what ever anyone had to say, but trying to avoid a whole raft of 'don't worry, be happy' posts.

But out in force came wonderful, gentle people, who stepped outside their own comfort zone to walk with me. I was a bit overwhelmed. That and the fact that it had been transplanted to purg meant I felt hugely guilty for bringing my sister back into the argument and I said, ok, thank you, I wasn't trying to set anyone up, let's call it a day. It WASN'T EVER A SUPPORT THREAD OF ANY KIND.

I still think that if bible literalists are right, I'm going to be in the same line as my sister. And my husband, and my kids. And, come to that, my other sister. (Married to a man, but first husband still living). While my parents may well get a ticket to heaven. Oh, what deep irony.

But the generosity and love of people like lambchopped, cliffdweller and Enoch made me think a lot about grace and the gospel. And maybe we are all going to be ok. And I can't explain any more fully here and now.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
It started the first time I commented.
The first time I posted, I was fairly much ignored. This actually continued for a bit. For me, it was due in large part to my posting style. Which was extremely spare, giving little to connect with. I adjusted and people have become used to me.
Communication works in both directions.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Just out of curiosity, "Tuba," what was your first post about? Was it the criticism of the ship's atmosphere, or something less incendiary?
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:

Again: do you happen recall me being very nasty? I remember talking with you in the past. But obviously you don't even remember talking to me at all, even once.
No, I don't remember talking to you at all, but don't feel insulted - my memory is exceedingly poor.

I find your use of quotes odd - as if you doubt the bits in quotes, so doing it to someone's name is even stranger, as Taliesin said.

I find your posting style abrasive, which is what cased me to comment 'strange that ...'. Maybe your first ever post was abrasive too?

Nothing wrong with abrasive of course, the Ship is an unrestful place and welcomes all comers. But you shouldn't be too surprised if people reply in kind.
 
Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
Doublethink, I'm really stunned at your lack of comprehension, and a bit hurt. If you'd said, I didn't read the thread cos of the OP, then, fair enough. But to say you read it then so totally misinterpret me is worrying.

I went out to try to take Jesus literally, instead of doing our usual trick of adding 'but he didn't really mean that' to everything uncomfortable.

It does, genuinely worry me sometimes that I'm taking the 21st century ideals and retrofitting them to God. Hence enormous problems with the ot and so on. So I posted in dead horses and I was up for hearing what ever anyone had to say, but trying to avoid a whole raft of 'don't worry, be happy' posts.
That's exactly my point, it was/is a hugely personal dilemma. About which you effectively asked for advice.

My reading of what you have posted since is that you really didn't want people to suggest you should abandon your current husband (even if put a lot more politely that by Tubamirum) or live with him as with a brother to raise your children. If that, and don't worry about it, are not viable positions in the debate - then there is little left to debate is there ?

FWIW I don't think you are committing adultery, and I believe you are probably living the best life you can in accordance with your beliefs. Nobody in their right mind aspires to broken relationships and divorce, so I don't doubt your sincere regret about the past either - but that does not mean divorce can not be the right choice for some relationships in some circumstances IMO.

[ 09. March 2014, 15:14: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
It was arrogance on my part, to assume that people know who I am. Clearly, no one knows me from a hole in the ground.
[brick wall]
The self-pity in the statement by you and TubaMirum is interesting. Communication is more difficult online in some ways. Hold on, scratch that, communication is difficult. I can give a sideways glance to some of my closest friends during conversation, and have them completely understand my meaning. Yet other times have them misunderstand a spoken comment.
Even with long time posters, there will be misunderstandings. So untwist your knickers and you will find moving around here a bit more comfortable.

[ 09. March 2014, 15:18: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
No, I didn't. 'What shall I do?' Is asking for advice.

I said, can anyone tell me what the churches response to me is, and what am I actually supposed to do?

Because, as I said on the thread I failed to link to, no one in their right mind would tell me to leave my current husband and children. I wanted people to think about it. I wanted to find out how people think about it. That people mistook my question and ran with it was a result of several things, not least of which being my initial lack of clarity.

Who the hell reads the last sentence in my OP and takes it seriously? I wish someone had stepped up a bit quicker to say it was offensive.

In my church, I was invited to sign a petition on the 'dumbing down of marriage' and I was really interested to read it. Was it going to advise more input before people committed? More gravitas? Greater commitment to the church community afterward?

I read it, was genuinely a bit stunned, and then said to the woman welding it 'but this isn't about dumbing down of marriage at all, it's just anti-gay.'

Elsewhere in the circuit, members tried to stop a couple having their baby baptised, because, yes, you've guessed it, the couple were gay. And?
Congregation felt that they were just having an excuse for a party.

It is these people to whom I direct my questions, not the rest of you. But in real life, they won't answer.
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
It was arrogance on my part, to assume that people know who I am. Clearly, no one knows me from a hole in the ground.
[brick wall]
The self-pity in the statement by you and TubaMirum is interesting. Communication is more difficult online in some ways. Hold on, scratch that, communication is difficult. I can give a sideways glance to some of my closest friends during conversation, and have them completely understand my meaning. Yet other times have them misunderstand a spoken comment.
Even with long time posters, there will be misunderstandings. So untwist your knickers and you will find moving around here a bit more comfortable.
Once again. Anyone who has read my posts and remembers who I am knows that my sister is gay, my daughters both came out as gay in their teens and while my sister can answer to God on her own, thanks, and I was more than happy to be a witness at her civil partnership and I would be devastated if she and her partner ever split up for any reason at all, my own kids I needed to think more deeply about. So I did huge amounts of thinking and reading and worrying and eventually came to be at peace with it, just in time for them to leave or be left by their girlfriends and take up with boys instead. Although not, in the case of D1, exclusively.

So it's absolutely not self pity, and piss off for saying so, that really pushes my buttons, but reality. A reality it would do me well to remember next time I start an oblique thread.
 
Posted by QLib (# 43) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
Anyone who has read my posts and remembers who I am knows that my sister is gay, my daughters both came out as gay in their teens ...
I don't spend a huge amount of time on the ship these days, and certainly don't read every active thread, especially in Purg. What I remember about people tends to be more about mood and posting style rather than specifics - I've certainly seen you around a lot and recognise you as (usually) pretty reasonable, which is why I didn't rise to the bait of 'trendy liberal' - I guess I assumed you didn't mean to give offence. But I had no idea about the personal domestic circumstances of you, your sister, or your daughters.
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I did, which is why I was having to totally sit on my hands to keep from telling TubaMirum just how totally she had got hold of the wrong end of the cat on that one--but I didn't feel I had the right to explain unless Taliesin chose to do so.

It would probably help if we could all be a bit less quick to assume that our own reading of someone's post is the correct one. As a host pointed out to me on that very thread... [Hot and Hormonal]
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
Once again. Anyone who has read my posts and remembers who I am knows
Not how it works, sunshine. We are not databases. People forget, need to be reminded. Face to face or online. Especially, as has been noted, the level of interaction varies considerably.
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
What she said. I have interacted with you a number of times, Taliesin, and I had no idea abut your family situation. I just haven't participated in those particular discussions.

I think Lil' B nails it-- communication in general is a pain in the ass, online communication is disproportionately so.
 
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
Ah yes. Of course. It's all the fault of other people. Have you ever considered that if you or your posts are constantly jumped on, that you may be contributing to the situation? Not very hellish as a post, I'm afraid, but it's been long weekend... [Snore]
 
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
Just to clarify, that was aimed at Tuba Mirum.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
It started the first time I commented.
The first time I posted, I was fairly much ignored. This actually continued for a bit. For me, it was due in large part to my posting style. Which was extremely spare, giving little to connect with. I adjusted and people have become used to me.
Communication works in both directions.
...and, as I mentioned, continued on for most of the five years (or whatever) I was here.

I'm well aware that there is a learning-about-people curve in any new situation. Five years, though, is kind of way too long to wait for it to resolve.

Once I posted a recipe on Heaven - and got sneered at because somebody disapproved of an ingredient in it! This kind of thing is a commonplace here in my experience - and there's no particular reason to put up with bullshit like this. It's just not at all worth it.

I've never had a single bit of trouble on any other site, BTW, and I've gotten into some pretty heated discussions in various places. This place is the one that's been repellent enough to force me to leave - and this place is the one with the Hell board and the general Hell ethos. I'm just putting two and two together here.

It could possibly be that SoF is only repellent to me, it's true. In any case, when you've had overwhelmingly negative experiences, there's no reason to bother anymore.

I don't really care, I should add; I'm just explaining the situation.....
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
Ah yes. Of course. It's all the fault of other people. Have you ever considered that if you or your posts are constantly jumped on, that you may be contributing to the situation? Not very hellish as a post, I'm afraid, but it's been long weekend... [Snore]
Yes, I've considered it. However, as I just explained, it only happens here.

Have you ever considered that it might be this website itself? It's the only one anywhere I purely hate and loathe....
 
Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
If my name is in quotes, does it mean I am not 'really' Taliesin? As does that mean you think you are actually a tuba? Because it seems quite strange use of punctuation.

My OP was posted in dead horses, after I made the 39th post on the thread about young people leaving the church. I've never figured out how to link to specific posts.

In retrospect, the tone does look rude, but is meant to be ironic. If a person believes all sex is fine, then they are likely to tell me all is fine, and I wasn't looking for reassurance, I was trying, genuinely, to find out what churches think I should ACTUALLY DO. not hypothetically our metaphorically or ideally. And your response, that I should leave my husband to avoid adultery and further sin, is the one that no one actually advises. Except maybe the RCs.

So if you were posting honestly, I would have been interested to hear your ideas. But you weren't. So, bit pointless, really.
But in Tuba's defense, if you don't want to hear the liberal answer and you don't want to hear the RC answer, exactly whose opinion do you want? Let's try this. Tell me what you want to hear and I'll be happy to tell you what church or denomination, if any, believes that.

Welcome back Tuba! I've missed you. Of course, I have a soft spot for Evensong as well. [Yipee]
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
If my name is in quotes, does it mean I am not 'really' Taliesin? As does that mean you think you are actually a tuba? Because it seems quite strange use of punctuation.

My OP was posted in dead horses, after I made the 39th post on the thread about young people leaving the church. I've never figured out how to link to specific posts.

In retrospect, the tone does look rude, but is meant to be ironic. If a person believes all sex is fine, then they are likely to tell me all is fine, and I wasn't looking for reassurance, I was trying, genuinely, to find out what churches think I should ACTUALLY DO. not hypothetically our metaphorically or ideally. And your response, that I should leave my husband to avoid adultery and further sin, is the one that no one actually advises. Except maybe the RCs.

So if you were posting honestly, I would have been interested to hear your ideas. But you weren't. So, bit pointless, really.
But in Tuba's defense, if you don't want to hear the liberal answer and you don't want to hear the RC answer, exactly whose opinion do you want? Let's try this. Tell me what you want to hear and I'll be happy to tell you what church or denomination, if any, believes that.

Welcome back Tuba! I've missed you. Of course, I have a soft spot for Evensong as well. [Yipee]
Thank you, BA. I'm missing Evensong right now, actually - I completely forgot!

Totally hate SoF so am probably not "back." But good to see you as well....
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
Ah yes. Of course. It's all the fault of other people. Have you ever considered that if you or your posts are constantly jumped on, that you may be contributing to the situation?
Many people have been posting here, happily, for over a decade. I'm thinking some people may just be a bad "fit." No board can be all things to all people. No person should expect to fit in everywhere. Blaming the boards in cases like this may help salve the ego, but it's probably misplaced.
 
Posted by TubaMirum (# 8282) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:

Welcome back Tuba! I've missed you. Of course, I have a soft spot for Evensong as well. [Yipee]
Thank you, BA. I'm missing Evensong right now, actually - I completely forgot!

Totally hate SoF so am probably not "back." But good to see you as well....
(OTOH, perhaps I COULD stand Ecclesiantics. The bullshit-to-content ratio is so much lower there....)
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
I reacted badly to being told I was self pitying. It's the kind of accusation that can't be refuted, and sends me straight into a child space.

To say, 'you don't know me' is a truism. You can only respond to what I give. Clearly, I believe I'm more visible than I really am, and to make such unqualified statements in the belief that people would understand where I was coming from was, actually, arrogance. I wasn't being ironic, I was admitting a truth.

I'm not feeling persecuted or ignored or unloved, just slightly disillusioned, which is ok. Illusions aren't that great. I'd like to know some of you better. That would be cool.

Tubamirim, I'm sorry you're hating it here.

Xposted with others. When did I say I didn't want to hear the RCs? At least they have the balls to be completely unreasonable about everything... until the pope retrospectively always thought that.

[ 09. March 2014, 19:29: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
I'm interested in the sneered-at ingredient in the recipe thread: Kraft cheese slices? Irn Bru? Fugu?
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
O let it be fugu. That would be awesome.

Haggis?
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I'm interested in the sneered-at ingredient in the recipe thread: Kraft cheese slices? Irn Bru? Fugu?
Velveeta?

Moo
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Velveeta would equate to the Kraft cheese. I can't see haggis being a problem - unless it was a dessert possibly.
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
How about those fried onion thingies you put on green bean casseroles?

No, it's gotta be Cheez Whiz! (this would make a great Heaven thread)
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
Marmite - what else?
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Boogie - you sneering at my Strawberry and Marmite Blancmange?
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
polenta. its truely grim.

kids at school made battenburg cake last week, and brought me a slice. it was delicious, but green. isn't that actually illegal?
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
No, that's green M & M's, isn't it?
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
No, green M&M's are legal and green but not delicious.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I reacted badly to being told I was self pitying. It's the kind of accusation that can't be refuted, and sends me straight into a child space.
Perhaps I should not have made that assumption. I did not intend to cause distress.

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I've missed you. Of course, I have a soft spot for Evensong as well. [Yipee]
Yeah, that is supposed to fuse at about 2 months of age. You might wish to consult a physician.
 
Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :
 
Sooo late to the party, but here goes:

TubaMirum, I don't remember you, mostly because it seems you must have debarked before I boarded. That said, there is something to be said for reading at least enough of a thread to get a reasonable handle on contexts and so on. If there's something which consistently annoys me about SoF, it's that -- the willingness of some posters (I'm pointing no fingers at you, (TM) particularly, as you're far from alone in doing this) to zip in and repeat what's already been posted by others, or zip in and accidentally derail a thread by having no idea what it's actually about.

TBF, it doesn't happen with great frequency, and most who do it at least note the fact, viz., "Sorry, haven't read the thread, but wanted to say gobble-de-gob."

Should "Read the thread before posting" be one of our rules? Can't say; some threads do get awfully long, and there is this intrusive little item known as real life.

Now back to the hunt for the Mystery Ingredient.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I've missed you. Of course, I have a soft spot for Evensong as well. [Yipee]
Yeah, that is supposed to fuse at about 2 months of age. You might wish to consult a physician.
[Overused] [Killing me]
 
Posted by Soror Magna (# 9881) on :
 
TubaMirum, two words: confirmation bias. Hope that helps.
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
I'm sort of glad tubamirim spoke up, actually. Turns out a fair number of people were either confused or offended by my thread, and I'm glad to know that.
It was horrible of you, and probably you need to know that, too. There were a couple of people who were obviously spiky about the OP but didn't ask an actual question, just registered a kind of disapproval, gave their opinion and moved on. Which made it hard to revisit. Especially as it all whizzed on while I was sleeping.

It would have helped me enormously if someone had said how rude the OP sounded or came across, and had asked a question about that.

[ 10. March 2014, 06:23: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I didn't see it that way, and I suspect most people didn't either. But it's one of the problems of a text-based medium, that people see things that were never intended.
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:

Now back to the hunt for the Mystery Ingredient.
gnocchi - I will sneer at that wherever and whenever I see it. Bleugh!
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Once I posted a recipe on Heaven - and got sneered at because somebody disapproved of an ingredient in it! This kind of thing is a commonplace here in my experience - and there's no particular reason to put up with bullshit like this. It's just not at all worth it.
So somebody you've never met and probably never will meet posted on an internet forum to say they didn't think your choice of ingredient met their standards. And you've been simmering about that for five years?

Quite possibly their choice of ingredients for one of their favourite recipes doesn't meet your standards either. The world's a big place - plenty of room for people to disagree, decide to give each other space, and spend time with people more compatible instead.
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Once I posted a recipe on Heaven - and got sneered at because somebody disapproved of an ingredient in it! This kind of thing is a commonplace here in my experience - and there's no particular reason to put up with bullshit like this. It's just not at all worth it.
So somebody you've never met and probably never will meet posted on an internet forum to say they didn't think your choice of ingredient met their standards. And you've been simmering about that for five years?
I think she's trying to make the point that the Ship is a horrible, hateful, sneery place which makes its posters unhappy, even in Heaven.

I tried to point out that her experience is probably due to her posting style - that people are replying in kind, even in Heaven.

I am a person who tries to see the best in everyone, but TubaMirum's dismissive, unpleasant attitude has rubbed me up the wrong way ever since she returned.

I think the Ship is what it set out to be - unrestful, slightly edgy, a place for people who prefer their religion disorganized.

She says she hates the Ship yet keeps on posting. Why?
 
Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:

Now back to the hunt for the Mystery Ingredient.
gnocchi - I will sneer at that wherever and whenever I see it. Bleugh!
I am sorry but you have gone beyond the pale. Gnocchism, the spiritual side of the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is religion at its sauciest.
You are probably a pastafarian.
 
Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
If my name is in quotes, does it mean I am not 'really' Taliesin? As does that mean you think you are actually a tuba? Because it seems quite strange use of punctuation.

My OP was posted in dead horses, after I made the 39th post on the thread about young people leaving the church. I've never figured out how to link to specific posts.

In retrospect, the tone does look rude, but is meant to be ironic. If a person believes all sex is fine, then they are likely to tell me all is fine, and I wasn't looking for reassurance, I was trying, genuinely, to find out what churches think I should ACTUALLY DO. not hypothetically our metaphorically or ideally. And your response, that I should leave my husband to avoid adultery and further sin, is the one that no one actually advises. Except maybe the RCs.

So if you were posting honestly, I would have been interested to hear your ideas. But you weren't. So, bit pointless, really.
But in Tuba's defense, if you don't want to hear the liberal answer and you don't want to hear the RC answer, exactly whose opinion do you want? Let's try this. Tell me what you want to hear and I'll be happy to tell you what church or denomination, if any, believes that.

Welcome back Tuba! I've missed you. Of course, I have a soft spot for Evensong as well. [Yipee]
Thank you, BA. I'm missing Evensong right now, actually - I completely forgot!

Totally hate SoF so am probably not "back." But good to see you as well....
I'm assuming you mean that Blessed Sung Service instituted by our Lord Book of Common Prayer rather than myself? I thought you looked familiar, but I cant place you.

But hey, if Beeswax likes you, you must be alright. He has great taste.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Could this be the sneer that launched a thousand huffs?

Admittedly, TubaMirum has already dissed lettuce a couple of posts up (thereby offending rabbits everywhere), so Marvin saying a bacon butty doesn't need tomato isn't exactly withering - and there's no immediate sound of running feet and slamming doors. In fact TM stays to chat about pickles.

So I'm not sure we have identified the Terrible Incident of the Mocked Ingredient.
 
Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
Should "Read the thread before posting" be one of our rules? Can't say; some threads do get awfully long, and there is this intrusive little item known as real life.
Erin once posted that, for the really long threads in DH, one only had to read the last 10 pages before posting, rather than the whole thread.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
Should "Read the thread before posting" be one of our rules? Can't say; some threads do get awfully long, and there is this intrusive little item known as real life.
Erin once posted that, for the really long threads in DH, one only had to read the last 10 pages before posting, rather than the whole thread.
It's even simpler in Hell: ignore previous posts, get roasted.

Sioni Sais
Returning Hellhost
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Could this be the sneer that launched a thousand huffs?

Admittedly, TubaMirum has already dissed lettuce a couple of posts up (thereby offending rabbits everywhere), so Marvin saying a bacon butty doesn't need tomato isn't exactly withering - and there's no immediate sound of running feet and slamming doors. In fact TM stays to chat about pickles.

So I'm not sure we have identified the Terrible Incident of the Mocked Ingredient.
It's actually a clever, if throw-away, line.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Not to worry. The recipe threads are archived. I feel motivated to keep looking. After all, there is post so scathing it's left a psychic imprint for years: serves indeed as a synecdoche for whole hostile culture of The Ship - and all on what is usually one of the least viperish threads in Heaven.

How can the Hosts have missed it?
 
Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
Should "Read the thread before posting" be one of our rules? Can't say; some threads do get awfully long, and there is this intrusive little item known as real life.
Erin once posted that, for the really long threads in DH, one only had to read the last 10 pages before posting, rather than the whole thread.
It's even simpler in Hell: ignore previous posts, get roasted.

That's never been a precursor to a roasting. Hell hath no logic like a thread scorned.

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

Sioni Sais
Returning Hellhost
Welcome back.
 
Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Not to worry. The recipe threads are archived. I feel motivated to keep looking. After all, there is post so scathing it's left a psychic imprint for years: serves indeed as a synecdoche for whole hostile culture of The Ship - and all on what is usually one of the least viperish threads in Heaven.

How can the Hosts have missed it?
You're a strange, strange woman.

I think I like you.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
You're a strange, strange woman.

I think I like you.
I'm OK with 50% of those statements.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I'm sort of glad tubamirim spoke up, actually. Turns out a fair number of people were either confused or offended by my thread, and I'm glad to know that.
It was horrible of you, and probably you need to know that, too. There were a couple of people who were obviously spiky about the OP but didn't ask an actual question, just registered a kind of disapproval, gave their opinion and moved on. Which made it hard to revisit. Especially as it all whizzed on while I was sleeping.

It would have helped me enormously if someone had said how rude the OP sounded or came across, and had asked a question about that.
I didn't realize you were so tone-deaf that re-reading your own OP in the light of several "spiky" comments about it wouldn't enlighten you. Next time instead of moderating what I say in order to keep from being as rude as you, I'll come right out and tell you you're being an ass.

But how about you just register right now that telling a whole category of people that their views are not welcome on a thread in Purgatory is a bad idea in the first place, even without the jerkishness about same-sex marriage. If you want to limit the discussion along certain narrowly defined lines, craft a better OP. Any time you're talking about people (i.e., "trendy liberals") instead of ideas, you are venturing onto thin ice.

[ 10. March 2014, 14:37: Message edited by: RuthW ]
 
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Once I posted a recipe on Heaven - and got sneered at because somebody disapproved of an ingredient in it! This kind of thing is a commonplace here in my experience - and there's no particular reason to put up with bullshit like this. It's just not at all worth it.
So somebody you've never met and probably never will meet posted on an internet forum to say they didn't think your choice of ingredient met their standards. And you've been simmering about that for five years?
I think she's trying to make the point that the Ship is a horrible, hateful, sneery place which makes its posters unhappy, even in Heaven.

I tried to point out that her experience is probably due to her posting style - that people are replying in kind, even in Heaven.

I am a person who tries to see the best in everyone, but TubaMirum's dismissive, unpleasant attitude has rubbed me up the wrong way ever since she returned.

I think the Ship is what it set out to be - unrestful, slightly edgy, a place for people who prefer their religion disorganized.

She says she hates the Ship yet keeps on posting. Why?
And have you noticed her post count? Pretty healthy for someone who hates the place and has hated it from the word GO.

Obviously, her version of a good style of "unrest" differs from the Ship's style of "unrest". It is interesting that there are an awful lot of us bunnies on the Ship who manage to enjoy the place, snark and all. And not all of us are totally passive aggressive. [Biased]

Ah, well, to each her own.

[ 10. March 2014, 16:09: Message edited by: Lyda*Rose ]
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I'm sort of glad tubamirim spoke up, actually...

It would have helped me enormously if someone had said how rude the OP sounded or came across, and had asked a question about that.
I didn't realize you were so tone-deaf that re-reading your own OP in the light of several "spiky" comments about it wouldn't enlighten you. Next time instead of moderating what I say in order to keep from being as rude as you, I'll come right out and tell you you're being an ass.

But how about you just register right now that telling a whole category of people that their views are not welcome on a thread in Purgatory is a bad idea in the first place, even without the jerkishness about same-sex marriage. If you want to limit the discussion along certain narrowly defined lines, craft a better OP. Any time you're talking about people (i.e., "trendy liberals") instead of ideas, you are venturing onto thin ice.
I AM, MYSELF, A LIBERAL, WHO HAS FRIENDS AND RELATIVES OF ALL SHADES AND FLAVOURS. WHEN I WANT THEIR OPINION, I TALK OUT LOUD.

I wanted to know what the other people think, believing them to be in a minority on the ship.
And I posted it in dead horses.

So yes, please, if you hear something rude and are interested enough to read and or post, do me the decency of telling me what you actually think.

[ 10. March 2014, 16:52: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I AM, MYSELF, A LIBERAL, WHO HAS FRIENDS AND RELATIVES OF ALL SHADES AND FLAVOURS. WHEN I WANT THEIR OPINION, I TALK OUT LOUD.
DO YOU SHOUT AT THEM?

quote:
I wanted to know what the other people think, believing them to be in a minority on the ship.
No need to be rude to the rest of us when you do so.

quote:
And I posted it in dead horses.
Which has the same rules as Purgatory.

quote:
So yes, please, if you hear something rude and are interested enough to read and or post, do me the decency of telling me what you actually think.
I did. I just wasn't rude about it, so you didn't get it. Idiot.
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
It is not rude to tell someone how you feel about something. I made a misplaced joke, a comment that dripped with irony, in the context of dead horses. I shouted in my last post because you aren't hearing me. Stupid, I know. Sorry. I had promised myself I wouldn't keep trying to explain, but I couldn't believe you were still misunderstanding me. What is wrong with saying 'that came across as rude' or 'did you mean to be so rude' or 'are you aware how rude that sounds?' Or 'I felt really cross when I read your remark about ...' none of which are themselves rude.

I didn't see any of the initial responses till it was well underway on a different board.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do or say, or imagining that I know what you should do or say, to me or anyone else.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
What is wrong with saying 'that came across as rude' or 'did you mean to be so rude' or 'are you aware how rude that sounds?' Or 'I felt really cross when I read your remark about ...' none of which are themselves rude.
Nothing. Except none of those are what I thought and felt.
 
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
So what did you feel, or think?

Was it just that you thought I was an idiot?

I went back to read your comment on the divorce thread. You said that you didn't understand why I was not talking to liberals, since it is the liberals who have made divorce acceptable.

Which I why I wasn't talking to them. To be accurate, if it weren't for the liberals, I would still be divorced, but it is unlikely I would have found a church that accepted me. So, it's very unlikely I would have become a Christian, since it was the love of a church community that led me to faith.

I'm sorry I didn't answer you on that thread, too much was going on. I just thought, ooops, she thinks I'm serious despite the use of the word 'savvy' and has misunderstood where I'm coming from... Sorry if it upset you or pushed any buttons.
 
Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
TubaMiram aside - it just so happens that she hasn't particularly blipped on my radar - I wonder if this insistence of seeing the Ship as some kind of singular Voice (bizarrely, in my opinion) comes down, at least in part, to the personality of the poster? I've never understood it, myself.

I've been here for a few years - even hosted for a while - and have never had any sense of a specific overriding agenda, or the imposition of a monolithic or single flavour to the community's interaction. Even amongst the hosting. And even when the distinctive guiding hand at the tiller was the much missed Erin's. In fact, Erin's splendidly anarchic 'Fuck you' theology was the antithesis to anyone trying to set up a prevailing clique here. If she thought you deserved the ministry of the rusty auger, it was because she thought you were an idiot; not because you didn't fit in with some hidden manifesto for SOF. And I'd say the Ship still, more or less, lives up to that admirable ideal. (Or lives down to it, if you happen to be the idiot referred to!)

I've always been aware of the Ship as a collection of individuals; some of whom, inevitably, overlap in their views and posting styles. And inevitably such similarities and interaction viewed side by side brings a particular skew to an argument. But nevertheless posters are complete individuals utterly responsible for their own posts, whatever alliances or conspiracies they imagine themselves to be part of, or a victim of.

I think it's likely that there are groups of posters who console each other via PMs, when 'the Ship' has been picking on them, or 'the Ship' has dogpiled them, or 'the Ship' hasn't recognized their version of the truth, or their erudition, or some such shit. And, frankly, this is the clique - amongst them all - I would consider the most harmful to good internet community relations. Ironically.

And, frankly, I think the attitude is a cop out; a way of avoiding the fact that behind the imagined conspiracy there is actually a group of individuals who, individually, have come to the same conclusion. Much easier to rail against the single voice of 'the Ship' than consider the possibility that a handful of individuals have genuinely and independently come to the conclusion that you're a dick (which isn't to say they're naturally right, but you never know!).

But then, maybe that's down to my personality, too? [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina
I've always been aware of the Ship as a collection of individuals; some of whom, inevitably, overlap in their views and posting styles. And inevitably such similarities and interaction viewed side by side brings a particular skew to an argument. But nevertheless posters are complete individuals utterly responsible for their own posts, whatever alliances or conspiracies they imagine themselves to be part of, or a victim of.
Well said!

Moo
 
Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
Somebody shipwise has a lovely sig. It goes something like:

First person: "I'm an individual"!
Second person: "I'm an individual"!
Third person: "I'm an individual"!

Someone else: "Yes. You're all individuals".

Another person: "I'm not"!
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Somebody shipwise has a lovely sig. It goes something like:

First person: "I'm an individual"!
Second person: "I'm an individual"!
Third person: "I'm an individual"!

Someone else: "Yes. You're all individuals".

Another person: "I'm not"!
Yes - brill!

(It's from the Life of Brian)

[Smile]

You Tube clip

[ 11. March 2014, 12:03: Message edited by: Boogie ]
 
Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Once I posted a recipe on Heaven - and got sneered at because somebody disapproved of an ingredient in it ...
... And you've been simmering about that for five years?
I think she might have boiled dry by now ... [Big Grin]

FWIW (not much) I think the ingredient was probably okra.
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Could this be the sneer that launched a thousand huffs?

Admittedly, TubaMirum has already dissed lettuce a couple of posts up (thereby offending rabbits everywhere), so Marvin saying a bacon butty doesn't need tomato isn't exactly withering - and there's no immediate sound of running feet and slamming doors. In fact TM stays to chat about pickles.

So I'm not sure we have identified the Terrible Incident of the Mocked Ingredient.
Yeah, that one drove me to the search function, too. Note that just above she says she forgoes lettuce in a B L T, so why can't Marv make a snark about forgoing everything else?

Cry me a river. Just try defending avocados around here; then you will know what Coventry is like.
 
Posted by Kittyville (# 16106) on :
 
Avos? Food of the gods.

Yeah, I know - hold still while you paint the target on.
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I stand with you in complete agreement, my sister.
 
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
My goodness this thread is strange.
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Once I posted a recipe on Heaven - and got sneered at because somebody disapproved of an ingredient in it ...
... And you've been simmering about that for five years?
I think she might have boiled dry by now ... [Big Grin]

FWIW (not much) I think the ingredient was probably okra.
Ooo! Ooo! Evidence!
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Just so it wason't o-qua ... [Projectile]

But send me some avocados please, I'm getting hungry, and they want a pound of flesh out here.

[ 12. March 2014, 01:20: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I sure hope whatever that is tastes good.
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Its American name is bitter melon. [Two face]

I grow it, but only because it looks so cool.
 
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
It is known in India as bitter gourd or pavaka. I have had it fried, baked and boiled. I have had it coated.

There are those of us in this household (all of us, actually) who consider it a wonderful vegetable.

I sometimes find it at home and have learnt to ask for bitter melon (which it is not).

North Americans refuse to eat any vegetable that doesn't taste sweet. Their loss, my gain.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
North Americans refuse to eat any vegetable that doesn't taste sweet. Their loss, my gain.
Arugula.
 
Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :
 
Seems to be the same thing that I've heard called karela. It's fantastic fried with onions, chili and a few spices.

Apparently there's a soft drink made from it in Japan, which sounds a bit hard-core to me.
 
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Brussels sprouts. [Smile]
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Love me some Brussels Sprouts.

Hate me some generalizations.
 
Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
In fact TM stays to chat about pickles.

So I'm not sure we have identified the Terrible Incident of the Mocked Ingredient.
Logically one would expect the terrible incidence to be one of the last things that happened. It would seem odd to have suffered such a miserable snub on a cookery/ingredients thread and then return to a similar thread.

So perhaps we are looking at it, and the pickles chat was a brief, brave attempt to cope and carry on, followed by a terrible and overwhelming abreaction in the last week or so.
 
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
North Americans refuse to eat any vegetable that doesn't taste sweet. Their loss, my gain.
Arugula.
And collard greens, and the ever-trendy kale, and everything leafy and green; Hell, you'd be hard-pressed to call my chile peppers of certain death "sweet." And this has been a very nice digression and all, but, dare I ask it, what's the point? We've already established that someone hates Us, but just can't quit Us (yes, because there's so obviously an Us, the memos I missed be damned), someone capable of getting offended on the recipe thread. But, seeing as they've gotten all huffy and are leaving us alone, can we save the discussion of foods that make us angry for somewhere else—somewhere we can taste 'em without the smell of brimstone masking the subtle nuances?

[ 12. March 2014, 06:37: Message edited by: Ariston ]
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Beats me. I merely pointed out the tragic ghettoization of avocado lovers on Recipe Threads Past*, and everyone went all foodie.

Maybe it's breakfast time in England.


* not the one above, I should note.
 
Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :
 
I had toast for my breakfast...
 
Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
I think I shall celebrate multiculturalism by having a very exotic unBritish breakfast of pancakes and maple syrup, and a glass of apple juice.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Be careful guys, or someone will have the difficult choice of transferring at least some of this to a Heaven food thread (if the Heaven hosts will have it) or closing it, in the apparent absence of the fly-by Tubamirum.
 
Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
Quite.

I was starting to develop an allergic reaction.
 


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