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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Bible Disposal
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
So, I noticed two bibles outside of church today, rather beat up old KJVs with family records inside going back almost a century, one even contained a wedding invitation from the 1960s. The covers were falling apart.
I asked pastor what to do with them, and she said that folks often gave their old bibles to churches, as if they didn't know how to dispose of them themselves.
What do y'all do with the likes of these? Just throw them away? Start a collection? Recycle them?
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Save them up, and have a bonfire on halloween.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Holy Fuck! Am I the only one concerned about the family history discarded? Not only that the family would discard their own history, but it is in the small records like this that a composite picture of everyday life is built. We go to museums and see the preserved records of the posh, but the record of the everyday is so much more scarce.
No disrespect, but the bibles themselves are generally insignificant. That scrawled within by the owners, much more precious.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
ilBuddha is right. A local history society or museum is the right place for them.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
I once scrapped a disintegrating works of Shakespeare,with a little regret (although I've long ago replaced it (Oxford, the one that Harold Bloom detests) .
I have a similarly collapsing BCP (which I've replaced by the Oxford 1549, 1559, 1662), but not yet scrapped - and probably won't).
A Bible? My ever superstitious undercurrents remember "Treasure Island". Fortunately my two bibles, and three other NTs aren't yet losing pages. "Oh come on" you say, and rightly so.
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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basso
Ship’s Crypt Keeper
# 4228
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Posted
All too many local history museums are stuffed full of things that people have donated because they didn't want to throw them away.
Posts: 4358 | From: Bay Area, Calif | Registered: Mar 2003
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
Calling it a "family history" was probably putting it a bit strongly, there were four or so death dates written into each. One of them had some personal affects stuck in it, but this was not a source of extensive genealogical data.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
This is an issue that pains me a bit in my work in the book section of a charity shop. Bibles don't seem to kept - they're sent away to be pulped. I find it hard to do this to a Bible that doesn't even look as if it's been read very much. On one occasion I simply priced a children's Bible as normal, and left it for my boss to throw away later. (Fortunately, very few Bibles are donated anyway.)
Muslims don't treat the Quran like this.
[ 02. March 2014, 20:34: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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OddJob
Shipmate
# 17591
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Posted
I've always been thankful that we don't face the same no-win situation as the Muslims. Destroying a Holy Book is blasphemy, but so is using a defaced one. So what is one supposed to do - never read or use it for fear of defacing it? Surely a greater blasphemy?
Posts: 97 | From: West Midlands | Registered: Mar 2013
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
We've had people regularly attempting to dispose of them to us as we're "missions", but that doesn't work too well when the Bibles are KJV. I've sometimes thought what we need is a version of the Genizah concept, where you can dispose of them but at the same time show honor to what they have been used for. Maybe using them for compost around church trees etc.?
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Svitlana wrote:
quote:
Muslims don't treat the Quran like this.
Maybe they don't. Though I'm not sure if I would say that that's a tribute to Islam's religious sensitivity, or a symptom of quasi-animistic fetishism. (Nothing against Islam, all religions have their "juvenile" aspects.)
And it's kind of ironic: some Christians love to brag about how the Bble is "the world's number one best-seller", and harangue everyone about the need to hand out as many copies as possible.
All well and good. But if you're gonna cheer the fact that there are a zillion cheap bibles being cranked off the presses every year, don't expect each individual copy to be treated as a precious work of divine craftsmanship.
Years ago, I read a report about some Muslims who were complaining that McDonalds put the Saudi flag on a "Flags Of The World" themed wrapper for their burgers. The objection being that the flag contains a verse from the Koran, and thus should not placed on something that will be casually tossed in garbage cans.
I recall thinking: "Well, if you don't want that verse being mass produced, tell the Saudis to take it off their bloody flag."
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
And here's something to think about...
If I started a website containing the complete text of the Bible, and then decided to shut the wesbite down, does that count as destroying a bible?
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Maybe they don't. Though I'm not sure if I would say that that's a tribute to Islam's religious sensitivity, or a symptom of quasi-animistic fetishism. (Nothing against Islam, all religions have their "juvenile" aspects.)
I think it can come down to the latter at the level of folk religion - nevertheless, the view of the Koran is that it is in some way perfect and eternal and was transmitted exactly by God himself, so there are good reasons why more reflective Muslims might hold to this attitude.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
This is an issue that pains me a bit in my work in the book section of a charity shop. Bibles don't seem to kept - they're sent away to be pulped.
I can see a couple of reasons why this might be the case. Bibles are often marked inside, and it can be easier to discard them rather than check for this. Furthermore, most of them are - ideally - in daily use by a single person and thus they have a personal aspect to them that other books don't often have, so I can see why people might prefer to buy them brand new.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
I picked up a set of religious books from an estate sale for an old Catholic couple. Inside the books were similar personal effects, including prayer cards which were handed out at funerals 60 years ago, asking for prayers for the souls of the people being buried. Just be glad it was just family histories; the thought that I might be this person's best shot at a shortened stay in a Dante-style Purgatory scares the hell out of me.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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basso
Ship’s Crypt Keeper
# 4228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Years ago, I read a report about some Muslims who were complaining that McDonalds put the Saudi flag on a "Flags Of The World" themed wrapper for their burgers. The objection being that the flag contains a verse from the Koran, and thus should not placed on something that will be casually tossed in garbage cans.
I recall thinking: "Well, if you don't want that verse being mass produced, tell the Saudis to take it off their bloody flag."
It was around the time of the World Cup. Saudi Arabia had qualified, and McD was a sponsor.
It's not so long ago that US attitudes to our flag were much more extreme than they are now. I can remember people foaming at the mouth at somebody wearing a pair of jeans with a US flag image stitched across the butt. Probably wouldn't draw a second glance today.
Posts: 4358 | From: Bay Area, Calif | Registered: Mar 2003
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
My mother was someone who balked at throwing away Bibles, even the freebie Gideon NTs. I kind of like the other LC's suggestion to use them as mulch or compost...paper makes excellent compost, especially during the summer when it's sometimes hard to find enough "browns" to balance out the "greens." I also know someone who makes beads out of strips of paper like glossy magazine pages or ad inserts -- she has a little machine that rolls them up -- that might make an interesting upcycle.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
It's not so long ago that US attitudes to our flag were much more extreme than they are now. I can remember people foaming at the mouth at somebody wearing a pair of jeans with a US flag image stitched across the butt. Probably wouldn't draw a second glance today.
Yes, flag festishism is in the same category as book worship.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
We've had people regularly attempting to dispose of them to us as we're "missions", but that doesn't work too well when the Bibles are KJV. I've sometimes thought what we need is a version of the Genizah concept, where you can dispose of them but at the same time show honor to what they have been used for. Maybe using them for compost around church trees etc.?
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Yes, flag festishism is in the same category as book worship.
Again, what's worshipped is not the book. It's more to do with differences between the sacred/common/profane etc.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Agreed. But despite my stance on bibliolatry, I must confess to being squeamish about throwing old Bibles away.
I think there's a wider debate yet to be had about the impact of electronic books on perceptions of The Book™, too.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Does a Bible for Kindle or Nook count? Does it actually "exist" as an artifact?
And, if you delete it, have you destroyed it? After all, there is the master copy from which it was ...taken? borrowed? cloned?. Does deleting the image cause a problem?
Since it is virtual, does your intent count? That is also "virtual" in the electronic sense.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
My mother was someone who balked at throwing away Bibles, even the freebie Gideon NTs. I kind of like the other LC's suggestion to use them as mulch or compost...paper makes excellent compost, especially during the summer when it's sometimes hard to find enough "browns" to balance out the "greens." I also know someone who makes beads out of strips of paper like glossy magazine pages or ad inserts -- she has a little machine that rolls them up -- that might make an interesting upcycle.
I've used Bible pages in mixed media art before, it did seem like a hurdle to tear up the first page though.
(I've made beads from vintage music sheets before, that machine sounds intriguing!)
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
I'm sure I have thrown some away when they have fallen apart completely (noting the old saying, "bibles that are falling apart are generally read by people who aren't") but can't say I have done so recently.
If anything, I might be inclined to "accidentally" leave it on a bus or train in the hope someone else might find it. These days, though, I tend to look carefully at the binding before buying, so I don't buy those that I think are likely to fall to bits.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
My Vicar says we should burn or bury life-expired Bibles. I've had some success with putting them at the back of the church under a notice saying 'Free to a Good Home'. Some difficulty with a BFBS French version, though; solved by giving it to a Methodist Minister's daughter who's studying for a French exam. Let's hope the print doesn't ruin her sight.
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Weird story about a Bible that happened to me. I was teaching the story of the Odyssey, and had an Exclusive Brethren child in my class who found fiction difficult. So, to link the tale to reality, I pointed out that the storm which takes the ships to the land of the Lotus Eaters follows the same course as the one which took St Paul to Malta. This required consulting a Bible, and I didn't have one to hand, so I sent to the teacher most likely to have one, and back it came.
To my surprise I found it had been presented to a young woman at the Congregational church where I became a member, on a similar occasion, and had her address in it, the same one where the family still lived. I asked the teacher concerned how she had ocme by it, expecting some interesting story about a gift from the young woman, only to find that she had been given it by the previous teacher in her classroom, who came from the other end of the country, and had no religious background at all.
I felt it ought to go back to the family, and offered to provide a replacement.
The teacher, who went to Pentecostalist churches, and was used to being prompted by the Holy Spirit, became very stiff, and said that it would not be a good idea at all, as if there were something she knew but could not tell me.
I got the message from her body language that this was not something I should pursue with her, so didn't.
Sometime later she became ill with a brain tumour, and was no longer at the school. I looked in her room - the Bible wasn't there. After surgery, she came back briefly - she had not been told that the remission was only temporary, thought her family knew, and we were all sworn to secrecy. (She was of a strong belief that cancer was of the devil and should have no power over believers, so I don't know what happened when she discovered the truth.) When she, the deputy Head, and I were together - she had had other opportunities for this, when I wasn't there - she took the Bible out of her bag and gave it to the deputy Head, explaining firmly that it belonged to the school and should be kept there. It had clearly become as important to her that I should not get my hands on it as it had become to me that I should.*
Some time later, a reasonable interval after she had died, I asked the by then promoted Head about it. She did not remember it, and as I knew she was mad keen on purging "unnecessary" stuff, I realised that it would have been disposed of. And probably not with care. Even though she was a practising Catholic. (Though it was KJV.) She was very fond of getting a skip (dumpster) in.
*By this time, I had another reason than simply returning it to the family. I intended to go via the minister, in case there was a family history difficulty I didn't know about, and it had occurred to me that the occasion could be used for me to ask for access to deacons' meeting minutes to find out why my mother had been ostracised, and seek an apology which might stop her having nightmares about it. I do feel that if God had wanted me not to do this, He could have come direct and/or given reasons.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
Very interesting question -- and sort of timely as far as I'm concerned actually, as I was doing a bit of turning out stuff recently. I particularly liked Stetson's posts! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I was given a Bible by my grandmother ( who was also my godmother) when I was 13 - it was the black leather with an inward sort of flap , smallish size, typical of the time. It was hardly ever used - it had to be kept nicely, you know.
However, I'm all for clearing out as much as possible so that when I die, there will be very little for my sons to sort out. But convention or something, or a vestige of the way things were when I was given it have held me back from throwing it away! . I have absolutely no belief in any God etc, and have referred to it only very rarely with reference to books I was reading or something; so \i'll save them that small task by disposing of it and my prayer book, this week. Thank you!
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
I also know someone who makes beads out of strips of paper like glossy magazine pages or ad inserts -- she has a little machine that rolls them up -- that might make an interesting upcycle.
And if the beads were then made into a rosary, now... ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Posts: 307 | From: North London | Registered: May 2013
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Just been reading a Tweet from someone saying that their dog ate their Bible. Would make good hamster bedding, too.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
I once wanted to let go of a bible and the difficult time that it recalled for me. My wife was a volunteer librarian at the local jail at the time, and it quickly found a new and appreciative home. Jails are good homes for bibles, where they get a lot of use. (I use my own NRSV and my father's KJV).
But try getting rid of massive old pulpit bibles, thoughtfully donated to the church... Strange things can happen during the hours of darkness, causing such books to vanish.
Related to this is our congregation's stated policy on donations, that acknowledges that gifts can outlive their usefulness and may be disposed of in a suitable way.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Jails are good homes for bibles, where they get a lot of use.
As rolling papers, AIUI.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
The NKJV that I got when I was baptized, that is always the first book I pack when I move, that sits at the "head" of my bookshelves? Forget it. At worst, it gets turned into an art object that looks like a Bible—is book taxidermy a thing? That particular object is a part of me and who I am—and, even without the fact that I can sometimes be a bit totemic, keeping objects around that remind me of things, ideas, places, and people that are vitally important to me, I'd probably still have an Over My Dead Body reaction to someone trying to dispose of that particular Bible, no matter how battered.
An average, underlined, paperback Bible? Recycle if it's not worthless onionskin or other strange paper. For them, the point really is just the text and ideas within, while the object is simply the medium used to bind it in space and time.
A Bible used in public display, or that was someone else's personal Bible? I'd say respect the ideas and importance that object symbolized, and give it a respectful burning or burial, as one would a flag. It may be "just another book" when viewed under one aspect, it may be a book filled with good and worthy ideas of importance to human civilization when viewed under another, but it is also a book with great symbolic significance to many people and groups. While I might want to burn my copy of Phenomenology of Spirit at times, it's not getting a respectful sendoff, no matter how influential or important Hegel's ideas are; a Bible is somehow different, especially ones with personal or public importance. In a way, showing respect to a worn out Bible is a way of showing respect for the people who held that Bible dear, for whom it was a symbol of hope and the holy, just as respecting a flag, even a worn one, is an act of respect for the country it represents, and (perhaps) by extension, for the people who live there.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Jails are good homes for bibles, where they get a lot of use.
As rolling papers, AIUI.
Both of these are true. The little blue Gideon New Testaments are especially favoured for the latter.
But if you want to remind yourself of how highly valued the scriptures can be, and the difference they can make, go to a prison. I had two requests for Bibles yesterday, and I am sure that neither was going to be smoked. It's not unusual for me to give a New Testament to somebody who's never read it and be accosted by them a matter of days later telling me they've read it, and where is the rest please. Or inmates who get a Bible, start at Genesis 1 and have reached Samuel within a week, having made it all the way through Deuteronomy, Leviticus and the lot. I could go on.
But why insult prisoners by giving them old Bibles? Send them new ones!
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
It's a book, the content is the important bit, not the physical form.
Get rid of it like you would any other book.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
But why insult prisoners by giving them old Bibles? Send them new ones!
It is hard to understand how the gift of a bible can be seen as an insult. I have many second hand books that I cherish for their content, not their provenance.
[code]
[ 04. March 2014, 13:31: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
But why insult prisoners by giving them old Bibles? Send them new ones!
It is hard to understand how the gift of a bible can be seen as an insult. I have many second hand books that I cherish for their content, not their provenance.
I'm not against it in principle, but when I relate the anecdote below maybe you'll understand how this pushed my buttons.
I once wrote to some Bible Society or other (I forget which, luckily for them), which purported to give out free scripture portions, asking them if they had any in some rare language or other for an inmate.
They sent back some badly soiled gospel or testament or some such, with a letter along the lines of "since this is for a prison inmate they clearly deserve nothing more than substandard goods". I'm not kidding.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Used to work for a place that changed their policy to providing only new Christian materials for just that reason. Trouble is, that means either a reduction or the same (insufficient) amount of materials being supplied. Why not send both old AND new? Double the help!
(I say this as someone who's been on the receiving end many times)
Ouch, Eutychus. Were you tempted to write back, "So this is what you would have provided Christ during his time in the Praetorium?"
[ 04. March 2014, 13:33: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Jails are good homes for bibles, where they get a lot of use.
Unfortunately, many jails and prisons do not allow prisoners to receive books from individuals. They have to be sent directly from the publisher.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
But why insult prisoners by giving them old Bibles? Send them new ones!
It is hard to understand how the gift of a bible can be seen as an insult. I have many second hand books that I cherish for their content, not their provenance.
I'm not against it in principle, but when I relate the anecdote below maybe you'll understand how this pushed my buttons.
I once wrote to some Bible Society or other (I forget which, luckily for them), which purported to give out free scripture portions, asking them if they had any in some rare language or other for an inmate.
They sent back some badly soiled gospel or testament or some such, with a letter along the lines of "since this is for a prison inmate they clearly deserve nothing more than substandard goods". I'm not kidding.
I understand your position now, but not theirs - that was abominable.
It was useful to have a prison librarian who made sure that the inmates were treated decently and not subjected to that kind of abuse where she was involved.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
In Melanesia, most churches and all religious houses have a specially dedicated place to burn old bibles and prayer book, old purificators and other linens, old vestments and what not.
They are not just thrown away.
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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