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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The post-Easter Question
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Anglican_Brat
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# 12349
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Posted
"So God raised one person from the dead in the history of the human race, how does that help me?"
That might be more a difficult question than the tired debates about the nature of Christ's risen body. Thoughts?
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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Ad Orientem
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# 17574
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Posted
If we are in Christ, his body which is the Church, we know we will be raised up to everlasting life too. Christ's resurrection is the proof of that.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Hairy Biker
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# 12086
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Posted
There are one or two others raised from the dead mentioned in the Bible. That includes an unspecified number "many" who where resurrected either on his death or his resurrection, depending on which verse you read.
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Jack o' the Green
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# 11091
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Posted
It doesn't unless it gives information or hints regarding things greater than Jesus' resurrection. This is why the emphasis is on God having been the cause of the resurrection of Jesus rather then it being merely a "conjuring trick with bones" or some bizarre freak of nature.
If God raised Jesus then at the very least it gives hope that there is some creative and redemptive power behind the universe which I would've thought should have some affect on us, even if it doesn't always hit home emotionally amidst the problems of our daily lives.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
"So God raised one person from the dead in the history of the human race, how does that help me?"
Because evil and death don't have the last word. God is in control and is more powerful than either.
And you can choose to board that train.
[ 21. April 2014, 14:14: Message edited by: Evensong ]
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Raptor Eye
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# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
"So God raised one person from the dead in the history of the human race, how does that help me?"
It shows me that whatever the physical consequences of serving God, nothing will keep me from his love.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
The thing is, we look at this from a perspective of western heaven/hell perspective, with a belief in post-mortem existence of some form. Even if we go to the eastern religions, there is a sense of existence, in some form, after death.
This is not how the Jewish understanding read things. From their perspective, after death there was no life, just death, oblivion, Sheol. Or maybe not oblivion, but a separation from their living tribe, family, people.
They lived on in their families, in the memories, in the stories, which is why family and tribe was so important to them.
Against this, Jesus resurrection was saying that death is not the end - there is something afterwards. What is more, that God could bring someone back meant that death - the final cutting off from the people that was so terminal for a Jew - was also within the control of God. He was bigger than that even.
Winding this forward, it means that today, our life - your life - has meaning, because it is not simply a time on earth that ends with oblivion.
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
As I understand it, the Pharisees also had a theology of the afterlife. I'm not sure how theirs worked, but they believed in it.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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An die Freude
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# 14794
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
This is not how the Jewish understanding read things. From their perspective, after death there was no life, just death, oblivion, Sheol. Or maybe not oblivion, but a separation from their living tribe, family, people.
They lived on in their families, in the memories, in the stories, which is why family and tribe was so important to them.
This would make Mary's comment, "I know that he shall rise on the final day" regarding Lazarus rather anacronistic. I'm not saying that's impossible, but it seems to have been a reasonable thing to write in 100 AD that Jews had a general idea of a final rising from the dead - which differs somewhat from your depiction, I think.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Martin60
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# 368
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Posted
Jesus's resurrection to transcendence from oblivion is qualitatively different. No one has partaken of that yet. In which all will be well for all. Because Jesus actually, actively saves.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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L'organist
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# 17338
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Posted
Jewish belief has at its core that at the last when the Creator comes there will be resurrection - something that is referred to in the central prayer Shmoneh Esrah which is recited at morning, noon and evening prayers.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
There are one or two others raised from the dead mentioned in the Bible. That includes an unspecified number "many" who where resurrected either on his death or his resurrection, depending on which verse you read.
This is why we need to be careful to discern resurrection from resuscitation. Only Jesus was resurrected as the firstborn from among the dead. The others were brought back to life, but remained in the 'old' state out of which the resurrection body is later to come (c.f. 1 Cor 15:35-49).
Going back to the opening post, though, it is our questions that betray what direction we want the answers to take. To ask, "how does that help me?" is indicative of a rather self-centred mindset. It's not about "me". It is about the restoration of creation, of which "I" am a part, but am certainly not the focus of attention.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Aren't you the focus of yours?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Truman White
Shipmate
# 17290
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
"So God raised one person from the dead in the history of the human race, how does that help me?"
That might be more a difficult question than the tired debates about the nature of Christ's risen body. Thoughts?
We don't have to wonder what's t'other side of death (Christ defines that). We don't face it alone.
Posts: 476 | Registered: Aug 2012
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
The Easter question?
More apt for me is neither posing questions, nor expecting answers. Rather going with the immediate experience of Easter day. Comfort!and!joy!
Must the spiritual be intellectualized? Always?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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PaulBC
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# 13712
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Posted
For me yje "how does Jesus ressurection help ?" question tells me that if I am a believer I too will br ressurected after I die. Paul in his letters mentions it and
the promise of the ressurrection is a great source of of comfort to me. ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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"He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
Posts: 873 | From: Victoria B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2008
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W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
"So God raised one person from the dead in the history of the human race, how does that help me?"
It's not so much that Jesus was raised from the dead per se, it's that God incarnated as one of us, then resurrected and glorified that Divine Human so that from now on, for all time, he can be be part of his own creation. He redeemed the human race two thousand years ago, and now he can keep it from ever needing to be redeemed again.
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A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.
Posts: 1565 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2008
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
Actually, whilst incarnation, perfect life, atoning sacrifice, bodily resurrection, glorious ascension and redemptive return are all part of the one saving act, it's actually the cross itself that is the main effective work - it is the cross that saves, the cross that is the power of God unto salvation. We preach Christ crucified.
The resurrection validates the cross and reveals Jesus to be Lord and Christ. The resurrection happened to and for Jesus, not us; what it does do is guarantee our own resurrection and final redemption, won and paid for on the cross.
[ 22. April 2014, 07:53: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
Aren't you the focus of yours?
I guess that is the central issue, Martin. The selfish focus on "I" is the disease for which the crucifixion/resurrection event is the cure.
Which I think is the point of John's recording of this "I am" comment by Jesus.
"I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me, even if he die, yet shall he live. And those who live and believe in me shall never die".
We fight hard to hang on to selfishness, despite the central and repeated proclamation that it is really bad for us. Rising above selfishness on a daily basis is a little miracle which I think mirrors in some way the resurrection of Jesus. Anyway, it is helpful to see it as an outworking of the victory over sin and death. Christus Victor can be grasped.
Easter people in a Good Friday world?
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Actually, whilst incarnation, perfect life, atoning sacrifice, bodily resurrection, glorious ascension and redemptive return are all part of the one saving act, it's actually the cross itself that is the main effective work - it is the cross that saves, the cross that is the power of God unto salvation. We preach Christ crucified.
The resurrection validates the cross and reveals Jesus to be Lord and Christ. The resurrection happened to and for Jesus, not us; what it does do is guarantee our own resurrection and final redemption, won and paid for on the cross.
I think that the two must always be kept in balance, Mudfrog. One should never be seen without the other imv. Focus on the cross should not be greater than focus on resurrection. The latter was and is for us!
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Hades rules the race of mortals, but not eternally;
for when You were placed in the grave, O powerful One,
You tore asunder the bars of death by Your life-creating hand
and proclaimed true deliverance to those sleeping there from the ages,
since You, Saviour, have become the first-born of the dead.
Paschal Matins
I know some may argue about such theology, as is one's right, but the above hymn says it for me; a lot is made of the destruction of Hades/Hell and Christ conquering it in the hymns for Holy Saturday/Easter Sunday with Hades/Hell/Death personified in the hymns. The power of Death is smashed through Christ's arising from the dead, and this gives me hope of my own resurrection [God willing not to condemnation]. As St Paul wrote, if Christ did not rise our faith is in vain; to me Pascha is linked to Holy Friday and they cannot be separated or balanced against each other -- His Death and Resurrection give me hope.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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