Ship of Fools: I'm crazy? Crazy like an Artist! aka Creativity and eccentricity

Thread: I'm crazy? Crazy like an Artist! aka Creativity and eccentricity Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

I've worked in fields creative, technical and mixed and am fascinated by the perceptions of people based on their perceived creativity. Personally, I've received both "Oh you artsy types, so wacky" and "Oh you technical types, so analytical" from the same people, depending on the situation. The point of observation seeming to be as important as the total of experience.
Whilst creativity an eccentricity can have a link, how much of behaviour accepted is because it is expected rather than inherent in one's personality?

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

I'd even go so far to say some creatives become more "eccentric" over time to embrace the stereotype. Is this just coming into themselves and rejecting conformity, or is it playacting being weird because they are living in a world where it's acceptable?

I'd say both, at least in my experience. Ditching the respectable job and jumping head first into the theater world certainly allowed me to stop playacting my conformity and come more into myself publicly. my public persona is now much more like what had previously only been seen by close family and the Ship. screw it, conformity is too much work. [Big Grin]

I do know people, however, who seem to use their involvement in the creative world as an excuse to behave badly. not just "eccentric" but instead selfish and mean. And for the most part they do get away with it because we really are a tolerant lot. Even more so, those outside of the creative world are tolerant because they think being a selfish dick is par for the course with creative types. IME, this doesn't coincide with any particular brilliance; some people bully their way into roles or shows or gallery openings rather than get there based on much artistic merit.

Some artists really can't help it, too. they ARE brilliant, but difficult to be around. those types (and I'd say they are actually pretty few) really don't understand how others don't see things their way. it's like they're predisposed to be myopic.

And all that being said, the most brilliant visual artist I know - and he does amazing work - is pretty ordinary as a person. nice guy, good to his wife, wears jeans and t-shirts, feeds the birds, walks his dog, and I've never seen him in a feather boa outside of a stage show.

I think the creative world is just more tolerant of the nutters, so we accept them and they have a place with us. I don't think you have to be a batshit loony to be brilliant.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Yes!

In my old publishing house I used to look with envy at the graphic designers. They used to get away with so much more shit* than we could, because they were "creatives" and we in editorial were allegedly linear thinkers. Yeah, right.

*"Shit" in both senses--wild clothes, desk accessories,** etc. which was cool; and bad shit, like being chronically behind schedule and expecting others to make it up for them.

**I rather suspect part of the reason I was canned was that I didn't fit the very conformist ethic of the unit I was in; I did things like having a collection of Christmas pickle ornaments hung on my cubicle wall. On particularly bad days I would consider hanging a pair of scissors next to them.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:

**I rather suspect part of the reason I was canned was that I didn't fit the very conformist ethic of the unit I was in; I did things like having a collection of Christmas pickle ornaments hung on my cubicle wall. On particularly bad days I would consider hanging a pair of scissors next to them.

Ah, a bit more of the "chop" than the "lamb", then
[Devil]

Posted by art dunce (# 9258) on :

I think more people should be like artists and not give a fuck what people think. Many ( but not all )of the constraints people complain about are really self imposed. My husband is a PhD and he gets away with more eccentricity than I do (and I get away with a lot!).

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
I think more people should be like artists and not give a fuck what people think. Many ( but not all )of the constraints people complain about are really self imposed. My husband is a PhD and he gets away with more eccentricity than I do (and I get away with a lot!).

John Ortberg writes that, for many of us, when we're in our 20s, we spend most of our time trying to please other people. When we're in our 30s, this starts to become draining, and we begin to resent others for it. In our 40s, we realize no one was paying that much attention to us anyway.

Maybe the artists get that just a bit sooner.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

Maybe the artists get that just a bit sooner.

I am not sure it is a matter of getting as much as it is not being able to completely control it.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

Maybe the artists get that just a bit sooner.
I am not sure it is a matter of getting as much as it is not being able to completely control it.

What do you mean? How could you not control a realization-- you either get it or you don't. (i.e. that "no one is paying all that much attention")

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Poorly stated by me. I mean that there is no such early realisation for most.

I am odd. And have been called nearly every possible synonym for that. It was not until adulthood that I truly stopped worrying about what others thought and that most people were not paying attention regardless.
Could be that I am not creative enough, I suppose.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:

**I rather suspect part of the reason I was canned was that I didn't fit the very conformist ethic of the unit I was in; I did things like having a collection of Christmas pickle ornaments hung on my cubicle wall. On particularly bad days I would consider hanging a pair of scissors next to them.
Ah, a bit more of the "chop" than the "lamb", then

This is why I love the Ship; you people understand me so well.
[Devil]

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
I think more people should be like artists and not give a fuck what people think. Many ( but not all )of the constraints people complain about are really self imposed. My husband is a PhD and he gets away with more eccentricity than I do (and I get away with a lot!).

I think the artists do who give a fuck what people think. The rest of us don't. An artist is someone who believes they have something to say; and there's no point saying it if you know that no one is listening. Most "eccentricities" I've come across are attention seeking rather than anything else. (I'm not saying that artists don't have anything to say; I have a lot of respect for art, but less respect for attention seeking stunts that pass as "eccentricities".)

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
Most "eccentricities" I've come across are attention seeking rather than anything else. (I'm not saying that artists don't have anything to say; I have a lot of respect for art, but less respect for attention seeking stunts that pass as "eccentricities".)

perhaps you and I are seeing "eccentric" differently. Yes, there are a lot of "stunt" types, but IME damn few if any would qualify was truly eccentric.

a few characteristics of some true "eccentrics" that I personally know are as follows:

woman has a pet chicken that she makes clothes for and walks on a leash. it wears it's own custom made diapers. all organic cotton. of course.
man who built a wall of car tire rims around his 5 acre property because it's some sort of statement about something or other (I forget). he also built an addition onto his house stictly to house a very large painting he was working on. to see the whole painting you needed to be on the other side of his (small) house and standing on his bed. The addition was torn down to remove the painting.
relative who writes his books in ultramarathon fashion - meaning for something like 20 hours a day for two weeks or more. then collapses. doesn't eat anything but beans during this time. talks to mice.
grown man who has a basement "dungeon" where he watches horror movies and sleeps with a Chucky Doll. can also recite the entire script of Holy Grail, beginning to end. not for a performance. just 'cause. Same man: goes for walks to recite his lines for a show, but often forgets to dress first. so, walking down the road in bathrobe talking to himself. has no idea he isn't dressed. He cried when I dressed as Elvira for halloween.
grown (ish) man who owns no bed, but sleeps under the cushions of his couch because then he doesn't have nightmares.
man who made a woodstove to look like a rocketship the same winter he built motors for his children's bicycles. Keeps a recliner on skiis in his yard all winter for sledding adventures. also built his house so that his wife had room to hula hoop indoors for the winter. and while they have no indoor plumbing, beer comes out of the kitchen tap.
man who shingled his entire (bizarre) house with old CDs. when the sun is out that dang thing is a hazard. but you'll never miss it!

those are a few, and none of them of the attention-getting variety. there are those, too, of course. but when someone is trying to pull a "stunt" that doesn't mean they're eccentric, it means they want attention.

Posted by art dunce (# 9258) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:

quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
I think more people should be like artists and not give a fuck what people think. Many ( but not all )of the constraints people complain about are really self imposed. My husband is a PhD and he gets away with more eccentricity than I do (and I get away with a lot!).
I think the artists do who give a fuck what people think. The rest of us don't. An artist is someone who believes they have something to say; and there's no point saying it if you know that no one is listening. Most "eccentricities" I've come across are attention seeking rather than anything else. (I'm not saying that artists don't have anything to say; I have a lot of respect for art, but less respect for attention seeking stunts that pass as "eccentricities".)

I have been a professional artist for almost 30 years and I'll have to disagree. I live in Silicon Valley now and know many super creative eccentrics in tech, art, academics, the maker community, etc and the one thing they have in common is they truly do not care what people (other than a select group of
peers) think about them. If you do start to care your work becomes derivative and you never have the vision or courage to create anything truly new. We care deeply about the work and you can engage around the work but the rest is dross.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
I think the artists do who give a fuck what people think. The rest of us don't.

Conformity is very much giving a fuck. And most people try to conform, even the "non-conformists"
Artists are not exempt from this per se. But for those of us who are odd, the odd will out, regardless.

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:

An artist is someone who believes they have something to say; and there's no point saying it if you know that no one is listening.

Creatives vary, in this. Some people feel the need to create even should no one ever take notice. Most do want others to notice, we are human and humans are social.

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:

Most "eccentricities" I've come across are attention seeking rather than anything else.

I agree with comet, the most attention-seeking people I know are not eccentric by nature.
Eccentricity varies, not all of it is as big as comet's examples. Eccentrics can be attention seeking, but that is not the point

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
Most "eccentricities" I've come across are attention seeking rather than anything else. (I'm not saying that artists don't have anything to say; I have a lot of respect for art, but less respect for attention seeking stunts that pass as "eccentricities".)

Not in my case. I completely tone it down in public and still get called 'crazy'. When I'm alone is the only time I'm really myself.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

Damn, Comet, I suddenly have this incredible hankering to move to Alaska.

I would look normal there.

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

One of the things that helps make the barren landscape that comprises our CBD bearable is the creativity and eccentrism of some of the inhabitants.

There is the artist who suggested that on the anniversay of the February quake roadcones be decorated with flowers in memory of those killed

And the cyclist who crochetted a roadcone in wool to fit over her helmet, or the person who put decoy ducks in the remains of the public swimming baths- just in time for the duckshooting season.

As the Art Gallery is still closed, copies of some of the paintings now adorn otherwise blank walls in various parts of the city, causing a tagger whose tag was obliterated to paint under one picture "Get this shit art back in the Gallery".

My favourite is my neighbour 2 doors away who used chicken-wire to sculpt a woman in her bath.

I have been surprised how much my spirts have been lifted by combination of art and eccentricty here and I hope that isn't lost when the city is rebuilt.

Before the quakes Christchurch had the reputation of being rather a staid place, maybe more was shaken up than just the earth.

Huia

Posted by DonLogan2 (# 15608) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:

[*]man who made a woodstove to look like a rocketship ....... and while they have no indoor plumbing, beer comes out of the kitchen tap.

Man after my own heart

Posted by argona (# 14037) on :

Am I eccentric? Shit, I just posted here didn't I?

Posted by argona (# 14037) on :

I write, in a small way till lately but more intensely as I get older. Most of my friends are likewise, and I'd say we're all quietly askew from life. Conventional day jobs, keeping up appearances to keep paying the bills, but all the while... what? Trying to make sense of nonsense? Exhausting, which is why a pension, a mortgage paid and a free travel pass is so liberating! Real eccentricity is just kicking off the carapace and not giving a flying fuck.

Posted by argona (# 14037) on :

And I doubt that 'creatives' are alone in that dissonance. They just have that way of dealing with it.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

I would think that folks like us who read the thoughts of strangers as an amusement, and who try to compose comments on those thoughts which we hope will find some audience while having no clue as to whether anyone is actually listening, must be pretty intensely social creatures. This makes me suspect that our 'eccentricities' (and I've been accused of some) are put out there as social signals in much the same way as our conformities. So we might prefer (as I do) not to work in a cubicle, and not to shit in the bath. I really don't know if it's possible to infer much from our individual and apparently arbitrary personal dissociation from a set of apparently equally arbitrary set of social conventions. I'm sure the sense of personal validation (superiority? Pride?) I really feel on 'not taking it from the Man' is something unhelpful, and certainly unconnected from anything Moral. For which I thank Christ for something on which to base a sense of what is Good.

This does not incline me to Take It From The Man [Big Grin]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

I am a novelist, a parlous profession. I am old enough now to do what I am going to do, without caring much about what anybody thinks. And, just to show I am really eccentric, I am in the midst of knitting a life-sized giant squid out of acrylic worsted. It is six feet long and the 8 tentacles will be another six feet, the two feeder palps being 10 feet. Astonishingly, a local store has offered to sell it on consignment.

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