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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Be a monk or a nun for a year at Lambeth Palace
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Evensong
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# 14696
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Posted
Justin Welby is opening up Lambeth Palace to young people to experience the monastic life. Article here.
quote:
Young people in Britain are being invited to become a monk or a nun for a year. Their Abbot will be the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby.
Archbishop Welby is opening up his medieval London home, Lambeth Palace, to young adults aged 20-35 who wish to spend a year living, studying and praying alongside him, his staff and the existing ecumenical Chemin Neuf community.
I think it's a brilliant idea!
Thoughts?
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
I can think of a number of reasons why a young person might want to be a monk or nun at Lambeth Palace.
They may want to explore the monastic lifestyle.
They may want to hobnob with the famous.
They may have a deep personal interest in the theological work of the arch bishop.
They may want to see if they can work their way up the corridors of institutional power.
They may be looking for room and board.
I think that the first goal would be better served by working at a more typical monastery or perhaps in a group that serves the people in the poorer part of time. As for the other choices, they're too depressing to contemplate.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Galilit
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# 16470
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Posted
Great idea!
Especially the cake at 1:24 in the video!
Would do it in a heartbeat but am too old.
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Beeswax Altar
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# 11644
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Posted
I'm too old.
You are even older than me.
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
I wasn't thinking about us old toffs. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) But what a great opportunity for young christians seeking positive intentional community!
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I can think of a number of reasons why a young person might want to be a monk or nun at Lambeth Palace.
They may want to explore the monastic lifestyle.
They may want to hobnob with the famous.
They may have a deep personal interest in the theological work of the arch bishop.
They may want to see if they can work their way up the corridors of institutional power.
They may be looking for room and board.
I think that the first goal would be better served by working at a more typical monastery or perhaps in a group that serves the people in the poorer part of time. As for the other choices, they're too depressing to contemplate.
Bit cynical there? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Ahleal V
Shipmate
# 8404
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I can think of a number of reasons why a young person might want to be a monk or nun at Lambeth Palace.
They may want to explore the monastic lifestyle.
They may want to hobnob with the famous.
They may have a deep personal interest in the theological work of the arch bishop.
They may want to see if they can work their way up the corridors of institutional power.
They may be looking for room and board..
quote:
Bit cynical there?
Thinking of the history of monasticism, surely t'was ever thus? (Note that I very much approve of this undertaking - I agree that the restoration of the religious life would do wonders for the Church of England.)
x
AV
Posts: 499 | From: English Spires | Registered: Aug 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I wasn't thinking about us old toffs. But what a great opportunity for young christians seeking positive intentional community!
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I can think of a number of reasons why a young person might want to be a monk or nun at Lambeth Palace.
They may want to explore the monastic lifestyle.
They may want to hobnob with the famous.
They may have a deep personal interest in the theological work of the arch bishop.
They may want to see if they can work their way up the corridors of institutional power.
They may be looking for room and board.
I think that the first goal would be better served by working at a more typical monastery or perhaps in a group that serves the people in the poorer part of time. As for the other choices, they're too depressing to contemplate.
Bit cynical there?
Dunno, any bets on whether someone is planning to do a documentary on this ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
I share some of the cynicism -- if it does go ahead, it will have little validity if it is populated by HTB or other nice middle class people. It needs a few people with different life experiences.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
On the other hand, ExclamationMark, it could provide a much-needed corrective to the HTB types ...
I think I'd be happier with the project if the experiment was taking place somewhere other than Lambeth Palace, but I suppose it's a start.
A century and a bit ago, there was a tremendous upsurge in Anglican religious orders ... some of them quite posh and well-connected, but others which genuinely did get their sleeves rolled up and their hands dirty.
Theirs is a largely untold story. The whole thing has all but fizzled out now, though.
I don't see evidence of any real revival of the 'religious life' in contemporary Anglicanism but I would welcome it if it came ... all the more so if it extended beyond the HTB end of things.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
54 years too late for me, but would have applied when I was 22. Doubt I'd have been accepted though.
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Refraction Villanelles
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
I'm the right age. And it sounds fascinating and fun.
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
You can do this at any age at most monasteries - it's called being an Alongsider.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Joan Rasch
Shipmate
# 49
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Posted
This idea of a monastic-style internship is not so new - the Society of St John the Evangelist is beginning the fourth year of its monastic internships for young adults. The men and women who take part in this program have the advantage of being part of a long-standing community which has deep experience of being guides and companions to people seeking to enrich their life with God - whether it's people seeking spiritual direction or those discerning a vocation as monks.
I certainly hope nothing but the best for this new project at Lambeth, but I hope they will consider partnering with an established religious community.
cheers from Boston /Joan
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* A cyclist on the information bikepath
Posts: 509 | From: Boston, MA USA | Registered: May 2001
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Joan Rasch:
I certainly hope nothing but the best for this new project at Lambeth, but I hope they will consider partnering with an established religious community.
Well now, I had assumed when I saw the announcement that it was an extension of the community already in residence at Lambeth. (In fact, before I read past the headline I thought it was just an old news item about Chemin Neuf). Perhaps that's not the case? I don't see how they could operate completely independently of each other, though, at least insofar as they're neighbours.
[ 07. September 2014, 21:56: Message edited by: LQ ]
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
So Justin Welby is to be their Abbot. He does realise that abbots are supposed to observe the same rules of poverty, chastity and obedience as all the other monks or nuns? But let's not hold our breath.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
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ChastMastr
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# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Dunno, any bets on whether someone is planning to do a documentary on this ?
No, no! A reality show!!! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
It could be called Keeping Up with the Cistercians.
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
In what way is this different from past initiatives where young adults were encouraged to give up a year (or more) for God? Over 30 years ago, my best man spent some two years on such a scheme. A small group of them lived in a rented house in a run down area of the north of England. They created a "Rule of Life", which focussed heavily on prayer and scripture reading. They were self supporting and those not in employment were expected to be using their time in active support of the local church.
I thought it was a great scheme. The group certainly had a powerful impact upon the local, rather run down, Anglican church.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
Just re-read and thought
"'Chemin Neuf??'" shouldn't that be "Chemin Neuf and 3/4?"
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I can't help feeling a bit miffed about this. I'm in my early 50s and would love to spend 6 months or a year with a community when I (hope to) retire next year. But not only is this out-of-bounds for me - many communities now won't take you on if you're over 40 or over 50.
When did the CofE get so ageist?
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I share some of the cynicism -- if it does go ahead, it will have little validity if it is populated by HTB or other nice middle class people. It needs a few people with different life experiences.
I would have thought it's more of an ask for the materially comfortable to commit to a year of monastic living.
And despite the stereotype, being a London church HTB and its affiliates have plenty of young people who are not middle class.
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Holy Smoke
Shipmate
# 14866
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I can't help feeling a bit miffed about this. I'm in my early 50s and would love to spend 6 months or a year with a community when I (hope to) retire next year. But not only is this out-of-bounds for me - many communities now won't take you on if you're over 40 or over 50.
When did the CofE get so ageist?
I'm afraid the CofE think that laws on age discrimination don't apply to them, for some reason - it's really quite common around here to see mid-week groups limited to under 30's or under 40's, even where they used to be open to everyone a few years ago.
Just one more reason not to bother, I suppose.
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I wasn't thinking about us old toffs.
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I think that the first goal would be better served by working at a more typical monastery or perhaps in a group that serves the people in the poorer part of time. As for the other choices, they're too depressing to contemplate.
Bit cynical there?
Dunno, any bets on whether someone is planning to do a documentary on this ?
I'm inclined to be a bit cynical whenever a project has a narrow age limit. What are the goals of the project? Why screen out the ages looking for career change which are often about 35 to 45 and again 55 to 70?
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I'm inclined to be a bit cynical whenever a project has a narrow age limit. What are the goals of the project? Why screen out the ages looking for career change which are often about 35 to 45 and again 55 to 70?
Probably because there's a great deal made about the lack of opportunities for young people, and because the average age of a CofE churchgoer is somewhere north of 60 which is not sustainable for the church's future.
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
Probably because there's a great deal made about the lack of opportunities for young people, and because the average age of a CofE churchgoer is somewhere north of 60 which is not sustainable for the church's future.
It's very sustainable if you keep doing things that persuade 60-somethings to return, or go, to church. This doesn't fall into that class of things.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
Probably because there's a great deal made about the lack of opportunities for young people, and because the average age of a CofE churchgoer is somewhere north of 60 which is not sustainable for the church's future.
It's very sustainable if you keep doing things that persuade 60-somethings to return, or go, to church. This doesn't fall into that class of things.
They're still going to die in 20-30 years.
20 year olds short of accidents or tragic illness will not, and they'll probably have a few kids to add to the church as well.
[ 08. September 2014, 15:56: Message edited by: seekingsister ]
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Holy Smoke
Shipmate
# 14866
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
Probably because there's a great deal made about the lack of opportunities for young people, and because the average age of a CofE churchgoer is somewhere north of 60 which is not sustainable for the church's future.
Alternatively, because it gives the project a spurious air of relevance and trendiness, and gives the impression that Lambeth Palace has transformed itself into a place full of youthful energy and enthusiasm, replacing the stodgy formality of the previous regime under Old Beardy.
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Holy Smoke:
Alternatively, because it gives the project a spurious air of relevance and trendiness, and gives the impression that Lambeth Palace has transformed itself into a place full of youthful energy and enthusiasm, replacing the stodgy formality of the previous regime under Old Beardy.
If you wish to believe that, but all reality-based information points to the fact that young people need quite a lot of help.
Young people fared worst in recession.
Young people have been disproportionally affected by the recession.
Add that to the age statistics for the CofE and it's a no-brainer. Let's give young people an opportunity to strengthen their faith and open them to a potential career in service to the church.
I wonder if people don't agree with internships and apprenticeships being for young people as well.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I can't help feeling a bit miffed about this. I'm in my early 50s and would love to spend 6 months or a year with a community when I (hope to) retire next year. But not only is this out-of-bounds for me - many communities now won't take you on if you're over 40 or over 50.
When did the CofE get so ageist?
In my experience, the CofE communities tend to be more flexible than many Catholic ones in terms of age, and also health and mental health issues. One I know of is accepting a woman in her 70s to be an Alongsider, with the idea that she may go on to be a Postulant and then take vows. If you are interested, try contacting them and talking about it - though their websites might say one thing, the reality is often different.
The initial reasoning behind the age and health thing is that if you join a community and take vows, you are to be contributing to that community, and the monastic life is hard work - getting up early, going to chapel often seven times a day, doing manual work, etc. So this is likely to be more difficult for someone who is elderly, or someone who is in very poor health. But each person's situation is different, and the CofE communities seem to be quite good at acknowledging this and taking each situation individually. And so do many Catholic communities nowadays. Most people who become nuns or monks nowadays tend to be older - 40 or over - as opposed to a few decades ago when most were in their early 20s.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Masha
Shipmate
# 10098
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Posted
I'm not sure it's really possible to see Religious Life as a 'career'.
Also, joining a traditional monastic community would be a different proposition to spending a year living with people broadly within your own age group, supported by Lambeth Palace, with everyone interested in how you're getting on.
I don't agree with the marketing, though I think the idea is terrific in itself. The people who live there may well be forming an intentional community - which is excellent - but calling them 'monks and nuns for a year' is a little misleading, in my view.
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
What I think is really good about this project is that it's raising awareness of the fact that Anglicans can become nuns and monks, just as Catholics can. That you don't have to be a Catholic to become a nun or monk. This is something that in reality a lot of people are not aware of, and Anglican monastics are aware of this and wanting to make people aware and not knowing how to do it. This Lambeth Palace thing might be a bit gimmicky and trendy, but that's what tends to work in terms of raising awareness.
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Masha:
I'm not sure it's really possible to see Religious Life as a 'career'.
It's not a traditional monastic community, and I think it's certainly hoping to get at least some of the people who participate interested in entering church ministry. There will be a new intake every year and the previous group will be made to depart.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by Masha:
I'm not sure it's really possible to see Religious Life as a 'career'.
It's not a traditional monastic community, and I think it's certainly hoping to get at least some of the people who participate interested in entering church ministry. There will be a new intake every year and the previous group will be made to depart.
Even in traditional monastic communities, those interested spend some months doing the monastic equivalent of an apprenticeship. Whether you call it a career or a vocation is not really the point - the idea is that you have to try it out to see if you are suited, and if you are not, you can go onto different areas of working within the church, or do something completely different. But it's a starting point. And a good way to have some time in prayer and silence and reflection, and to listen to God.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Masha
Shipmate
# 10098
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Posted
I know it's not a traditional community, my picking up on 'career' was not related to that.
I know that alongsider schemes and, to a certain extent, time as a postulant is a 'test out' time. However, I think that's totally different, and that's the point I was getting at. On those schemes you are entering an already functioning community, with all the benefits of having people to learn from, who may have spent many decades living that life. If someone loves spending a year at Lambeth then there's no guarantee they'd like life in a traditional community because it's so different. Depending on what they liked about Lambeth, I suppose.
My point was that this doesn't look much like the monastic life to me, and I don't think it's trying to be in one sense, but that's what they're calling it so it's a bit confusing!
I certainly agree that getting people inspired to take faith seriously, and raise awareness of RL is a fantastic thing. I hope it is very fruitful.
[ 08. September 2014, 17:58: Message edited by: Masha ]
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Masha:
I know that alongsider schemes and, to a certain extent, time as a postulant is a 'test out' time. However, I think that's totally different, and that's the point I was getting at. On those schemes you are entering an already functioning community, with all the benefits of having people to learn from, who may have spent many decades living that life. If someone loves spending a year at Lambeth then there's no guarantee they'd like life in a traditional community because it's so different. Depending on what they liked about Lambeth, I suppose.
My point was that this doesn't look much like the monastic life to me, and I don't think it's trying to be in one sense, but that's what they're calling it so it's a bit confusing!
I think it definitely seems different from the traditional way of doing it, although it has some things in common - living in community, living by a rule that covers areas like money and relationships, praying and working regularly, and the daily rhythm of silence, study and prayer.
Monastic communities are all changing nowadays, and are all different, and spending several months in any community would not necessarily let you know whether you'd like life in a different community - many people spend time in several before they make up their mind. But the overall disciplines of silence, work, regular prayer apply to most communities I think, and would be useful to experience even in this particular unusual setting.
And there are traditional communities where most members are new, due to older members dying or leaving, and where it is a case of the members almost starting from scratch, having to build up a community and make new rules. And also there are brand new communities that are created - maybe this will result in young people starting new communities, which could be a very positive thing.
Monastic life does seem to be going through a bit of a crisis at the moment, from what I can see. There are communities full of old people very set in their ways, who on the one hand want to attract new people, but on the other hand aren't willing to change any of their outdated customs. Customs which can include shaming newcomers for making mistakes, insisting that members can't change their underwear every day (as that was seen as an extravagance in the time before washing machines, when many of the older nuns first entered the religious life), eating incredibly stodgy diets, not being allowed bananas (because bananas were rationed at the time when many nuns entered, so they are seen as a luxury), believing that newcomers shouldn't question anything but just accept it all quietly, etc. And there is a new generation of intelligent, questioning young people who have a calling to enter the religious life but are frustrated by these bizarre rules and customs which don't seem to have any relevance or any bearing on their faith.
So, to me, something like this sounds really positive. I'm sure it won't be perfect, and there will be much to criticise, but then isn't that the case for anything new and innovative? But honestly, if nothing new was attempted for fear of criticism and failure, there would be no progress. Something like this really needed to happen, and I'm glad it has, even though I am too old myself to do it.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Archbishop Welby is opening up his medieval London home, Lambeth Palace, to young adults aged 20-35 who wish to spend a year living, studying and praying alongside him, his staff and the existing ecumenical Chemin Neuf community.
The newly-formed Community of St Anselm will be formally launched with the first one-year monks and nuns in September next year. Members will subscribe to a Rule of Life, which has not yet been finalised but will likely cover all kinds of matters including money and relationships. Those who are single will be expected to be celibate, but membership is also open to married couples.
Does this not mean that they are tied to the Chemin Neuf community (whatever that is) anyway ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
Doublethink, yes, following the links reveals a lot more information about it. It's really not as haphazard as people seem to think!
quote:
'Earlier this year the Archbishop invited four members of Chemin Neuf, a Roman Catholic community with an ecumenical vocation, to live and pray at Lambeth Palace. The Community of St Anselm will live and pray alongside Chemin Neuf each day.'
They are also recruiting for a Prior. I doubt Justin Welby will be very involved, and realistically, he'll have all other unrelated responsibilities - he will be overseeing it, but the Prior will be hands-on, working with and directing the community.
[ 08. September 2014, 18:59: Message edited by: Fineline ]
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Oh, the HTB graduate can't but help show his roots.
Why Chemin Neuf? Because they're foreign! Because with a French name they'll sound exotic. And perhaps therefore people won't so easily associate them with their great champion, John Paul II or, through their Ignatian roots, the Jesuits.
The most obvious people he should have turned to were the Community of the Resurrection and the Community of the Holy Name - the latter had a nun resident at Lambeth throughout ++Rowan's tenure there.
This has all the hall-marks of a reality TV show, and not a good one.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Fineline: What I think is really good about this project is that it's raising awareness of the fact that Anglicans can become nuns and monks, just as Catholics can.
I met a Lutheran nun a couple of weeks ago. TBH that was a bit of a surprise to me. I didn't know those existed.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
Probably because there's a great deal made about the lack of opportunities for young people, and because the average age of a CofE churchgoer is somewhere north of 60 which is not sustainable for the church's future.
It's very sustainable if you keep doing things that persuade 60-somethings to return, or go, to church. This doesn't fall into that class of things.
They're still going to die in 20-30 years.
20 year olds short of accidents or tragic illness will not, and they'll probably have a few kids to add to the church as well.
Sorry Seeking Sister but I know of a congregation that survived something like forty to fifty years on just such a policy. Indeed they only died when the work was taken away from them.
There are two reasons for this. Firstly I have always noticed that when a congregation takes a missional task the congregation gets an influx of workers. Normally fewer than it would like but still an influx. It seems that Jesus' advice to pray to the Lord of the Harvest is good still. This does not happen in congregations without this outlook.
Secondly younger people are much more mobile than the elderly. Better to have an older person for the twenty years between 65 and 85 than to have someone younger for ten years because their job changes. Indeed as long as there are 65 year olds coming in to replace the 85 year olds the congregation can sustain itself indefinitely.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Oh, the HTB graduate can't but help show his roots.
Why Chemin Neuf? Because they're foreign! Because with a French name they'll sound exotic. And perhaps therefore people won't so easily associate them with their great champion, John Paul II or, through their Ignatian roots, the Jesuits.
The most obvious people he should have turned to were the Community of the Resurrection and the Community of the Holy Name - the latter had a nun resident at Lambeth throughout ++Rowan's tenure there.
This has all the hall-marks of a reality TV show, and not a good one.
Two reasons for Chemin Neuf at Canterbury must surely be, [a] +Justin is a fluent French speaker who lived in France for many years, and hence probably encountered that community on home ground, and [b] he first invited them to Liverpool Cathedral when he was Dean there. I also suspect that Chemin Neuf are more likely to be flexible in the sort of work they take on, and have more resources to do so. The only C of E community I can think of like this are the Franciscans, and they have pulled out of various places in recent years due to reducing numbers.
CR have retrenched and consolidated as a consciously monastic community in one house; they no longer are dispersed in branch houses as they once were. I don't know about CHN but I would imagine if they had been keen to stay at Lambeth +Justin would have welcomed them. (Actually I don't think it was CHN, but the Sisters of the Church)
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
PS... I doubt if there is much suspicion of Jesuits among Anglicans today. Many people have benefited from their teaching and guidance on spirituality, among them very many Anglicans from an evangelical background.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Holy Smoke
Shipmate
# 14866
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Oh, the HTB graduate can't but help show his roots.
Why Chemin Neuf? Because they're foreign! Because with a French name they'll sound exotic. And perhaps therefore people won't so easily associate them with their great champion, John Paul II or, through their Ignatian roots, the Jesuits.
The most obvious people he should have turned to were the Community of the Resurrection and the Community of the Holy Name - the latter had a nun resident at Lambeth throughout ++Rowan's tenure there.
I don't think real monks and nuns would do much for the brand image. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
My first thought was 'how many will pair off after a few weeks'? Throw several 20-30 year olds together in a close environment, and that's what usually happens. High spiritual ideals, or no.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Fineline: What I think is really good about this project is that it's raising awareness of the fact that Anglicans can become nuns and monks, just as Catholics can.
I met a Lutheran nun a couple of weeks ago. TBH that was a bit of a surprise to me. I didn't know those existed.
Apart from Lutheran religious orders per se, the Sisterhood of St John the Divine in Toronto recently received the first vows of a Lutheran pastor and former deaconess. She remains a rostered pastor of the ELCiC and her "congregation" is the convent. (There is one other religious priest in the community, an Anglican).
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Sorry Seeking Sister but I know of a congregation that survived something like forty to fifty years on just such a policy. Indeed they only died when the work was taken away from them.
And I know a church - mine - that was about to be closed by the diocese because it only appealed to the elderly, and there were just 12 of them. Demographics meant that there weren't new elderly people to take their places when they went on to meet their Maker.
The plural of anecdote is not data!
However I can point to senior leadership - current and former - in the CofE who believe the lack of attention paid to young people will be the death of the church.
Like Carey and Sentamu or a CofE report that says young people don't even think about religion.
Where are the 65 year olds you speak of going to come from 40 years from now, if the 25 year olds are ambivalent entirely about Christianity?
If this program and others keep young people on the cusp of leaving home and starting their new lives from turning away from the church, it is a victory for them, their families, and the wider community.
It is sad that someone sees this plan for monastic opportunities for the young and their first thought is "Not fair because I'm over 35." I'm in the age range but due to life circumstances can't even consider participating, that doesn't mean I have sour grapes. Although being one of these wretched "HTB types" I'm sure many here are breathing a sigh of relief.
[ 09. September 2014, 07:55: Message edited by: seekingsister ]
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
I think it's an interesting idea. That I'm half a century too late is a matter of regret, not disapproval.
If there were a Church initiative for divorced and remarried pensioners, I hope those excluded by those criteria would not object.
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
Where are the 65 year olds you speak of going to come from 40 years from now, if the 25 year olds are ambivalent entirely about Christianity?
Many people take an interest in religion for the first time as they approach old age. When they were young, they felt immortal; now that they realize they're not, many of them show an interest in church.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Anecdote can show a method can work though. Now I suspect there was a lot of difference between your congregation and that congregation. By working with older people they meant at one stage run the only service for older people in the local borough area. They ran a day centre that functioned with lunches five days a week. They did not set out to be the sole provider, they just set out to create a day centre which at the time was as much about youth unemployment as helping the elderly.
However, the result was that lots of elderly people were in contact with the day centre. Therefore for those people coming on a Sunday to church was just coming to the same welcoming place they came every other day of the week.
What it was not was about serving the people who were already there. They had a mission that went further than the local congregation.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Holy Smoke
Shipmate
# 14866
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
Where are the 65 year olds you speak of going to come from 40 years from now, if the 25 year olds are ambivalent entirely about Christianity?
And how are you going to keep people engaged in the years between 35 and 65? Surely these are the hardest years to keep people involved because of all the competing targets for their time and energy. Maybe a twelve month sabbatical for someone in their forties or fifties might be helpful.
Anyway, my point is not about sour grapes, it's about the CofE setting a bad example by discriminating against people over a certain arbitrary age, for what looks for all the world like cosmetic reasons - "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to fill up fusty old Lambeth Pally with bright young people!"
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
Many people take an interest in religion for the first time as they approach old age. When they were young, they felt immortal; now that they realize they're not, many of them show an interest in church.
Moo
The churches still have to be open and active, for them to have somewhere to turn to in the first place.
If the decline in attendance continues we will not have anywhere for the spiritually curious 65 year olds of 2054 to come in and ask questions.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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