Ship of Fools: Scottish Independence and the Monarchy

Thread: Scottish Independence and the Monarchy Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by ORGANMEISTER (# 6621) on :

IF the Scots vote for independence from the UK, and IF they chose to retain some form of monarchy is Elizabeth II still the queen of Scotland? If she isn't, who is the rightful sovereign.

Are there any heirs from the Stuart line who might be?

Could any descendents of Charles II's illegitimate children qualify? I believe Prince William is descended through the Spencer line from one of Charles II's children.

I also understand that the flamboyant Duchess of Alba is a possible contender?

What are the chances that the Scots would retain any sort of monarchy?

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

They are bound to retain the monarchy at first, for the simple reason, not to frighten the horses. To add republicanism to the yes campaign would sink it.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

If anything would burnish Independence in my eyes, it would be the prospect of getting rid of the whole pointless clamjamfrie.

Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :

The Queen would remain Elizabeth I, Queen of Scots, in Scotland - that's not up for discussion next Thursday.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

There is a Jacobite heir to the throne (actually several, depending on who you talk to), but it's irrelevant as Liz will still be Queen of Scots after independence.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Yes, no question. She is undoubtedly their Queen as much as ours and AIUI all other things being equal would, if the 1707 Act/ Treaty of Union had not happened, even now be reigning as Elizabeth I of Scots.

Posted by Anglican_Brat (# 12349) on :

I assume that the title of Scotland, would be the "Kingdom of Scotland."

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

I'm sure Salmond and the SNP would make a big thing about being the "Kingdom of Scotland" and repealing the Treaty of Union.

And the traditional form address of the Queen of Scots was "Her Grace", not "Her Majesty"

Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I assume that the title of Scotland, would be the "Kingdom of Scotland."

You'd think, but that's not what the draft constitution says.

According to the explanatory notes:

quote:
Section 5 simply provides that the name of the State will be Scotland. This will be the formal name of the State when it participates in international organisations and signs international treaties.

It is commonly thought that States may have an everyday name, as well as a somewhat different formal name. For many States that is the case with formal names such as the Kingdom of Belgium, the Federal Republic of Germany, the Hellenic Republic, for Greece, or the Grand- Duchy of Luxembourg. But this is not a requirement. The formal name can be the same as the everyday name, such as in Article 4 of the Irish Constitution, which provides that: “The name of the State is...Ireland.”

Scotland, as an entity and as a people, is widely recognised across the world and the Scottish Government believes that it is appropriate and straightforward that the name by which our State will choose to call itself reflects that existing recognition – Scotland.

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

Interestingly, I have seen proposals to rename the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Assembly to Lord Chancellor of Scotland, as the Scots LC presided over the Parliament of Scotland pre 1707.

So perhaps the SNP is just catering to tender republican consciouses.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

The heir through the Stuart line would be Duke Franz of Bavaria.

If they choose to follow the line of Charles II's illegitimate children, then you can choose from one of the following dukes: Richmond, St Albans, Grafton or Buccleuch.

Buccleuch would be the obvious choice because he's actually a Scot.

But there is no reason for the Scots to ditch the Queen since she is also a legitimate heir and the direct line died out with a cardinal back in the early 19th century.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:

And the traditional form address of the Queen of Scots was "Her Grace", not "Her Majesty"

As was the traditional form of address for Kings and Queens of England. "Your Majesty" made gradual inroads beginning with Henry VIII, but was only really set in stone by James VI & I.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

cf Macaulay's marvellously stirring poem The Armada:

quote:
With his white hair, unbonneted, the stout old sheriff comes;
Behind him march the halberdiers; before him sound the drums;
His yeomen round the market cross make clear an ample space;
For there behoves him to set up the standard of Her Grace.

Written first half of C19 but Macaulay knew what he was doing.

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