Ship of Fools: Service of Readings and Carols

Thread: Service of Readings and Carols Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :

Some friends of mine are looking to go to our local cathedral to sing carols on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. If they go for the Service of Readings and Carols, are they likely just to hear wonderful carols from the choir, or do the whole congo usually get to join in?

Either way, I might well go along myself if public transport is still running locally when it's due to finish...

Thanks for any advice!

BG

Posted by FooloftheShip (# 15579) on :

Almost certainly both. There are usually three or four congregational carols at least, with the rest being sung by the choir.

Posted by Vulpior (# 12744) on :

Many services of readings and carols seek to mirror the Kings College Nine Lessons and Carols format. The Kings service almost always starts with Once in Royal David's City, and ends with O Come All Ye Faithful, the blessing, then Hark the Herald Angels Sing. All these are sung by the whole congregation (although the first two verses of Once in Royal are solo and choir).

Between that, and surrounding the lessons, is a veritable feast of choir-sung carols, with a couple of items sung by the whole congregation. That, I think, is probably an extreme. The last service I put together on that pattern had three 'music group' items and six further congregational carols.

With a cathedral, or other professional/quality choir, you should expect a good number of pieces by the choir, but also recognition that people attend carol services in order to be able to sing the old favourites.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Vulpior:
Many services of readings and carols seek to mirror the Kings College Nine Lessons and Carols format...

Even here in the hinterlands of Arizona, our Cathedral bases its Lessons and Carols on the one at Kings College (which is broadcast by our local classical station live). But our Cathedral will have it on the Sunday before Christmas. I've gone the past several years and am looking forward to it again this year. It's wonderful

[Yipee]

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

As an Anglo-Catholic I'm always rather agin him because of the ritualism trials, but I suppose it's time for the annual pointing out that while King's is the best known, they didn't actually invent nine lessons and carols. That was Benson, at Truro, some thirty or forty years before King's got anywhere near it (and, at the time, they were quite open about their source).

Anyway, back on topic, it depends entirely on where you go. At Christ Church the other year, I think from memory we sang about twice in the evening, with the choir handling pretty much everything.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

Ours is based on King's as well (although being very traditional, it's not until the Sunday after Christmas). The congo will get to sing all but vv. 1 and 2 of Once in royal, O little town*, O come, all ye faithful, Unto us is born a son and Hark the herald angels sing, plus at least one other, and there'll be a fair number of choir carols too.

* to the tune Forest Green, no American nonsense here! [Devil]

PS BG, if you're in the flatlands of the East that I'm thinking of, you'll be spoilt for choice for places to go. [Smile]

[ 10. December 2013, 16:21: Message edited by: piglet ]

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:

PS BG, if you're in the flatlands of the East that I'm thinking of, you'll be spoilt for choice for places to go.

We're in East Anglia, and yes, we do have some lovely cathedrals including one recently-completed one - and of course we have King's - in the region.

At our local one, there's a carol session accompanied by the Sally Ann mid-evening, and my friends are planning to go to that on the grounds that with the Sally Ann you'll always get a good rousing sing-song. I think they're right.

If I can, though, I may go to the Readings and Carols - it will be absolutely wonderful and there is at least public transport still running when it finishes!

Many thanks, everyone, for your replies so far!

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
* to the tune Forest Green, no American nonsense here!

But the words are American. [Big Grin]

Moo

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

That's still no excuse to sing that awful dirge. [Big Grin]

I can't help it - I'll probably live the rest of my days on the left side of the Pond, but if I never hear St. Louis again, it'll be far too soon.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

After some discussion in the Hosts' Lounge, it's been decided that this thread would flourish better in Eccles.

Hang on to your surplices ...

Piglet, AS Host

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

For quite a number of years, we went to Lessons and Carols at School, home for a glass of muscat and some Christmas cake, then off to church for Midnight Mass. Alas, the current regime at School has chosen to have that service on Sunday evening and hour little private tradition has come to an end. The School service follows the Kings College tradition with some purely choral singing, and others for all; the finish is the Hallelujah Chorus with organ ( a good Sharp) and added trumpet.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

Sunday night 22nd here -- all carols sung by the congregation except one piece by a soloist and one by a group formed for the night.

People come to take part and taking part for them is singing the old favourites. I just wish we could hack out that awful "Once in ..... "

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Vulpior:
With a cathedral, or other professional/quality choir, you should expect a good number of pieces by the choir, but also recognition that people attend carol services in order to be able to sing the old favourites.

Which has been real bone of contention in one place I know, together with the formal/informal debate.

[ 12. December 2013, 06:56: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Morlader (# 16040) on :

Yes, Truro was the origin of the Nine Lessons and Carols format. They are doing a reconstruction of the first Bishop Benson service next week. I don't know if they are starting with the solo first verse of OiRDC but I sincerely hope not because that has just about as much relevance to worship as Christmas pudding does - pure dressage/kitch.

I much prefer O little town... to Walford Davies's setting (OK, that starts with a solo too, but accompanied, so less angst.)

rant on/ The Sunday after Christmas Day Is, of course, in the Christmas season, not after Christmas. But I learnt the hard way many years ago (cong of 10, I think, excluding choir) that few people want Christmas music, to hear or sing, in Christmas. And I blame King's (and the BBC) for that, as well as for OiRDC. Grr. /rant off

Good luck to those 'doing' carol services in the next couple of weeks. Just don't expect to see me there. [Mad]

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

If a carol service is much before Christmas (I'd say on the 21st or earlier) then start with either O Come Emmanuel or similar.

If 22nd on then start with Of the Father's heart begotten.

The congregation should get to join in at least 6 hymns or carols.

Yes, for preference I'd prefer carol services after Christmas but the real possibility of that happening vanished around 1980 IME - I blame TV.

As for OiRDC - OK but not brilliant.

And if you want slush with musical pedigree then It came upon the midnight clear to the Sullivan tune is hard to beat.

The year, bearing in mind Syria and other horrors, we shall again be singing Malcolm Williamson's Christmas Night...

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Our Carol Service on Sunday 22nd has 8 congregational carols (well, one of them is an Advent hymn - Come, thou long-expected Jesus) and there are 2 songs for what will probably be a scratch choir.

OiRDC is the Introit Hymn at Midnight Mass, but probably without any solos........

Ian J.

Posted by Gwalchmai (# 17802) on :

I would glady attend any carol service where they promised not to sing "While shepherds watched" to Winchester Old - the most depressing tune of Christmas.

Moving on from the singing to the reading (or listening) why do so few of our parish churches use the King James Bible for carol services? At least King's College still do. Most of the modern translations (even NIV) sound leaden and pedestrian in comparison to rhythm of the language in KJV. And for those who think modern congregations won't understand 17th century English, take note that there are no "difficult" words in the Christmas readings. In any case most people are familiar with the traditional version. I prefer my shepherds to be "sore afraid" rather than "terrified" (even though they probably were terrified!).

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

We've gone for a typically Anglican compromise!

Most readings at our Carol Service are from the NRSV, but the Gospel - which is read 'liturgically' i.e. with Alleluias, acclamation, and incense - is the Johannine Prologue, Authorised (King James) Version......

......we are having a joint service with the local Baptist congregation this year........ [Snigger]

Ian J.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
I would glady attend any carol service where they promised not to sing "While shepherds watched" to Winchester Old - the most depressing tune of Christmas. ...

I agree and can't understand why this has persisted when there are so many much better tunes to sing it to.

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

I wanted to do ours on Christmas Eve, but there won't be enough people around to make it happen. If we do it, I want to do it well. So we're having it on the first Sunday during Christmas, as a joint service between my two parishes. Once in Royal will be the processional because, gosh darnit, I like that song. [Smile]

No solo, though.

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Most readings at our Carol Service are from the NRSV, but the Gospel - which is read 'liturgically' i.e. with Alleluias, acclamation, and incense - is the Johannine Prologue, Authorised (King James) Version......

And a communal drop to the floor at "And the Word was made flesh..."? Now that's liturgical! [Biased]

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Once in Royal will be the processional because, gosh darnit, I like that song. No solo, though.

What the "Christian children all must be, mild obedient, good as He?" bit too?

It's utter tripe and presumption. What about the "disobedient" Jesus who is found in the temple instead of being with his parents?

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
...And if you want slush with musical pedigree then It came upon the midnight clear to the Sullivan tune is hard to beat.

The year, bearing in mind Syria and other horrors, we shall again be singing Malcolm Williamson's Christmas Night...

Yes, 'slush with musical pedigree' is right for the Sullivan tune: wonderful. But the words are very much not slush- '...beneath the angel strain have rolled two thousand years of wrong/ And man, at war with man, hears not the love-song which they bring/ O hush the noise, ye men of strife, and hear the angels sing!'
I should think they could do with a bit of that in Syria and all too many other places.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Community / Village carols : readings from scripture are from NEB (I think); there are non-scriptural readings.

Its not a choir thing so its congregational all the way - featuring my own most hated carol Silen Night [Projectile]

plus Good King Wenceslas, etc (I know, I know, too early, secular - but sometimes you have to give people the crap they crave).

Nine Lessons will be King James all the way with Hymns and congregational carols, plus the choir singing 8 (or so) items on their own.

No Rutter.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
No Rutter.

Words I love to hear

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Once in Royal will be the processional because, gosh darnit, I like that song. No solo, though.
What the "Christian children all must be, mild obedient, good as He?" bit too?

It's utter tripe and presumption. What about the "disobedient" Jesus who is found in the temple instead of being with his parents?

I completely agree, I dislike the carol from start to finish, and those lines are the low-point. One of those times when the vomiting smiley is really needed!

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
... Most of the modern translations (even NIV) sound leaden and pedestrian in comparison to rhythm of the language in KJV ...

Yea and amen! For our Nine Lessons & Carols the lessons (in the KJV) are typed out and put in a binder on the lectern, so there's no chance of anyone messing them about.

A well-meaning but ill-advised idiot donated a huge, very expensive Gospel book in an Inferior Version™ to the Cathedral a few years ago and when the Christmas Gospel at Midnight Mass didn't have the words "comprehendeth it not" it almost ruined my entire Christmas.

Fortunately, the Cathedral's Liturgical Good Taste Committee* has Taken Steps and it doesn't happen any more.

* i.e. the Organist, but with the full support of the Dean. [Big Grin]

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

At a previous church we had a spate of thefts - mainly small items, but we were all shocked to discover the lectern Bible had been taken which, sadly, meant the KJB had to be put back.
Shame
[Snigger]

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Once in Royal will be the processional because, gosh darnit, I like that song. No solo, though.
What the "Christian children all must be, mild obedient, good as He?" bit too?

It's utter tripe and presumption. What about the "disobedient" Jesus who is found in the temple instead of being with his parents?

I'm looking at the version in the 1989 United Methodist Hymnal, and that line isn't there. I'm not sure if this version is copyrighted, so I won't post it here, but the bit you quoted isn't part of it.

ETA: Here's a link.

[ 13. December 2013, 15:20: Message edited by: Barefoot Friar ]

Posted by american piskie (# 593) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
What about the "disobedient" Jesus who is found in the temple instead of being with his parents? [/QB]

I always thought the point was that he *was* obedient to his true Father.

(It doesn't reconcile me to that verse though! Nor to parenting which consists in extracting "obedience". Sorry. Just read a sick-making article about something called the Xmas Elf.)

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
At a previous church we had a spate of thefts - mainly small items, but we were all shocked to discover the lectern Bible had been taken which, sadly, meant the KJB had to be put back.
Shame

Don't suppose there's any chance of anyone stealing our copies of H*mns *ld & N*w, is there?

Posted by Francophile (# 17838) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
No Rutter.
Words I love to hear

I like Rutter's version of All Things Bright and Bootiful.

Posted by BulldogSacristan (# 11239) on :

Wait, are people saying that they actually have Christmas Lesson and Carol services before Christmas? I thought that was an exclusively Methodist/Baptist/Presbyterian type of thing? I've honestly NEVER heard of an Episcopal/Anglican or Roman Catholic church doing this, ever.

Our parish does Advent Lessons and Carols on Advent Sunday then Christmas Lessons and Carols on New Year's Eve and both are very well attended. I do have to say, however, that New Year's Eve is probably the only time a Christmas Lessons and Carols service really works, outside of Christmas itself.

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

My own parish did Advent Lessons & Carols on Advent Sunday. Another parish in the diocese with a major music ministry is having Nine Lessons and Carols "to honour the Christ Child" this Sunday evening, and I have to admit a glance at the leaflet does seem to suggest a somewhat more Christmassy flavour than I would have aimed for.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

The virtue of obedience (which St Benedict thought was central) seriously needs to be re-thought. The Latin word is related to "audire" to hear. It means listening to other people and acting accordingly. It doesn't mean being a doormat and a creep. And people don't listen to each other, as message boards make clear.

That verse in Once in Royal David's City does make the Second Person of the Trinity sound like Little Lord Faunteleroy, but what's the alternative to "meek, obedient, good"?

"Arrogant, stroppy, malicious"?

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
Wait, are people saying that they actually have Christmas Lesson and Carol services before Christmas? I thought that was an exclusively Methodist/Baptist/Presbyterian type of thing? I've honestly NEVER heard of an Episcopal/Anglican or Roman Catholic church doing this, ever.

The Episcopal Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, AL is having theirs this weekend. I would love to go, but our church is having something that night and I must be there.

Also, the chapel at the University of the South in Sewanee, TN (also Episcopal) has theirs the first weekend in December. But I assume that's because it's a college and the students won't be around during Christmas.

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
Wait, are people saying that they actually have Christmas Lesson and Carol services before Christmas? I thought that was an exclusively Methodist/Baptist/Presbyterian type of thing? I've honestly NEVER heard of an Episcopal/Anglican or Roman Catholic church doing this, ever.

Our parish does Advent Lessons and Carols on Advent Sunday then Christmas Lessons and Carols on New Year's Eve and both are very well attended. I do have to say, however, that New Year's Eve is probably the only time a Christmas Lessons and Carols service really works, outside of Christmas itself.

There are several notices in this week's Church Times from Anglican parishes with Carol Services on Sunday 15th December and Nativity Plays at Mass on that day to boot.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Gosh, I'm glad to hear American RCs and Episcopalians are so liturgically pedantic as to have their carol services after 25 December.

That is very rare in England. I can certainly remember my school carol service in the C of E parish church over fifty years' ago in December. I've been to Epiphany Carol Services, but they are rare.

It's partly to do with schools: they have the Nativity Play and Carol Service in the term before Christmas.

In the UK, Christmas ends on 25 December. From 26 December onwards we have Sales.

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
Wait, are people saying that they actually have Christmas Lesson and Carol services before Christmas? I thought that was an exclusively Methodist/Baptist/Presbyterian type of thing? I've honestly NEVER heard of an Episcopal/Anglican or Roman Catholic church doing this, ever.

Our parish does Advent Lessons and Carols on Advent Sunday then Christmas Lessons and Carols on New Year's Eve and both are very well attended. I do have to say, however, that New Year's Eve is probably the only time a Christmas Lessons and Carols service really works, outside of Christmas itself.

Well, I looked up 10 TEC churches that happen to be on "favourites", 6 of them are having their lessons and carols services this Sunday or in the coming week, 3 next Sunday the 22nd and only one on Christmas Eve. The US Catholic parishes didn't even mention carol services. Perhaps they follow the UK example of carols preceeding Midnight mass.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Gosh, I'm glad to hear American RCs and Episcopalians are so liturgically pedantic as to have their carol services after 25 December.

We had our carol service last week, but sang Advent carols. We will sing Christmas carols in a couple of weeks, but don't have another "carol service" - just the normal set of Christmas and Sunday services.

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Liturgylover:
The US Catholic parishes didn't even mention carol services. Perhaps they follow the UK example of carols preceeding Midnight mass.

This is common in episcopal churches here too. In fact, the half hour preceding Midnight Mass is the only portion of the evening's proceedings I can drag the unchurched half of my family out to.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Nine Lessons and Carols last Sunday before Christmas here, and Crib Service (for children) after dark on Christmas Eve.

Posted by AndyB (# 10186) on :

Seven lessons for us - we omit the promise to Abraham and Isaiah 11. I had O come O come Emmanuel in, but it isn't on the congregational carol sheets, and to my utter shock the choir didn't remember Of the Father's love/heart begotten from 2001. That will be fixed for next year.

Rest of the congregational items are OiRDC (don't judge me - no solo, as the soloist left before I arrived), It came upon the midnight clear (don't judge me), O little town (don't... you get the idea), While shepherds washed, As with gladness, O come all ye faithful (with the non-Christmas Day last verse) and Hark the Herald. Two choir items (no Rutter in sight), and I've got a wee piece for the Offering.

[ 14. December 2013, 10:16: Message edited by: AndyB ]

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

quote:
Originally posted by AndyB:

… O come all ye faithful (with the non-Christmas Day last verse)

And just what is the 'non-Christmas Day last verse'?
It's an item I've not encountered.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

I've just remembered from a comment on the Advent thread that the O Antiphons are sung as part of the service here - one at a time through the service; they work well with the readings.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:

quote:
Originally posted by AndyB:

… O come all ye faithful (with the non-Christmas Day last verse)
And just what is the 'non-Christmas Day last verse'?
It's an item I've not encountered.

I think s/he means without the last verse specific to Christmas Day (Yea, Lord, we greet thee/ Born this happy morning)

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:

quote:
Originally posted by AndyB:

… O come all ye faithful (with the non-Christmas Day last verse)
And just what is the 'non-Christmas Day last verse'?
It's an item I've not encountered.

I suspect AndyB just means the usual penultimate verse. The final verse (Yea, Lord we greet thee) is usually only sung on Christmas day.

(x-posted with venbede)

[ 14. December 2013, 19:51: Message edited by: Honest Ron Bacardi ]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
No Rutter.
Words I love to hear
I like Rutter's version of All Things Bright and Bootiful.

I suppose it might work, on the principle that a negative times a negative is a positive.

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:

quote:
Originally posted by AndyB:

… O come all ye faithful (with the non-Christmas Day last verse)
And just what is the 'non-Christmas Day last verse'?
It's an item I've not encountered.
I suspect AndyB just means the usual penultimate verse. The final verse (Yea, Lord we greet thee) is usually only sung on Christmas day.

(x-posted with venbede)

I have encountered a version of the last verse amended to "Yea, Lord, we greet thee/Born on Christmas morning" to allow it to be sung at the other times. I can't say I'm a fan...

Posted by The Scrumpmeister (# 5638) on :

quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
I have encountered a version of the last verse amended to "Yea, Lord, we greet thee/Born on Christmas morning" to allow it to be sung at the other times. I can't say I'm a fan...

This is what I have most commonly encountered before the 25th.

Posted by AndyB (# 10186) on :

Actually, I meant this:

Yea, Lord, we bless thee
Born for our salvation
Jesus, to thee be glory given
Word of the Father
Now in flesh appearing

It was in the 1960 ICH with the old third line to rhyme with "Christ the Lord": "Jesu, for ever be thy name adored" but the 2000 ICH corrected it to the conventional version.

Incidentally, the 1960 ICH had two versions. 64 was for Christmas Day and had verses 1, 2, 6 and 7 with assorted ugly tweaks to the words (eg Though God of True God, Light of Light eternal, the womb of a virgin hath he not abhorred), and 65 was for afterwards, with verses 1, 6, 3, 4, 7 in that order and with the non-Christmas Day last verse.

Posted by S. Bacchus (# 17778) on :

Just back from our Advent lessons and carols. All of the right hymns ('O Come, O Come' with the first verse as treble solo; 'Hills of the North'; 'Hark! A thrilling voice is sounding'; 'Lo! He comes') and some very suitable bits for choir, including the Palestrina mattins responsory. If one closed ones eyes and only listened, one might even say that it was a nice service. Shame everything else about it was SNAFU*.

*(see the thread I'm about to write).

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

quote:
Originally posted by S. Bacchus:
'Hills of the North';

With Oakley's original words, or the New English Hymnal rewrite? The following is a bit of no-holds-bared-putting-the-boot-in, but I was very amused.

http://cathythinks.blogspot.co.uk/2006/12/hills-of-north-rejoice.html

Posted by S. Bacchus (# 17778) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:

quote:
Originally posted by S. Bacchus:
'Hills of the North';
With Oakley's original words, or the New English Hymnal rewrite? The following is a bit of no-holds-bared-putting-the-boot-in, but I was very amused.

http://cathythinks.blogspot.co.uk/2006/12/hills-of-north-rejoice.html

The the re-written bowdlerization, I'm afraid. That is a great blog, though, and containing much wisdom.

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :

quote:
Originally posted by S. Bacchus:

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:

quote:
Originally posted by S. Bacchus:
'Hills of the North';
With Oakley's original words, or the New English Hymnal rewrite? The following is a bit of no-holds-bared-putting-the-boot-in, but I was very amused.

http://cathythinks.blogspot.co.uk/2006/12/hills-of-north-rejoice.html
The the re-written bowdlerization, I'm afraid. That is a great blog, though, and containing much wisdom.

We sang this version at Evensong last week. I hadn't come across the rather naff rewrite at all and was quite taken back by it.

Posted by A.Pilgrim (# 15044) on :

quote:
Originally posted by seasick:

quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:

quote:
Originally posted by AndyB:

… O come all ye faithful (with the non-Christmas Day last verse)
And just what is the 'non-Christmas Day last verse'?
It's an item I've not encountered.
I suspect AndyB just means the usual penultimate verse. The final verse (Yea, Lord we greet thee) is usually only sung on Christmas day.

(x-posted with venbede)
I have encountered a version of the last verse amended to "Yea, Lord, we greet thee/Born on Christmas morning" to allow it to be sung at the other times. I can't say I'm a fan...

The amendment that I've come across for non-Christmas Day usage is to change 'born this happy morning' to 'born that...' which seems neat and simple to me.
Angus

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :

I'll sing born that happy morning after Christmas but I get very grumpy if expected to sing that verse before midnight mass. Thankfully despite several carol services already that hasn't happened this year. I'm living with carols early, but keeping that verse until Christmas itself is one small thing left...

Carys

Posted by daviddrinkell (# 8854) on :

To a number of points....

I used to experiment with various alternatives to 'born this happy morning', but I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter, despite the near-apoplexy induced in some clergymen when used other than on The Day.

Rutter - he doesn't deserve the wholesale trashing some people give him. His music is beautifully written in the technical sense and often fits perfectly with a specific theme. Over-exposure is tedious, but that's not his fault. One could argue that he has sometimes written the same thing several times (I once played for a Rutterfest carol service and it was not my idea of a nice evening. Rutter wouldn't have liked it, either). I can think of a number of his pieces that strike me as near perfect.

'O little town of Bethlehem'. As the Organist of Piglet's church (being also married to Piglet is irrelevent in this context), I am thankful that a predecessor introduced 'Forest Green'. The combination is my favourite of all Christmas carols. Walford Davies' 'Christmas Carol' is a fine tune, too, but 'Forest Green' has the edge on it. One might use 'Christmas Carol' for a choir-only verse, with 'Forest Green' for the rest. 'St. Louis' is utter tripe. Having been written for the words is no reason for it to be perpetuated (hardly anyone uses 'Groeswen' for 'All my hope on God is founded' since Herbert Howells wrote 'Michael' - 'Groeswen' is a good tune, 'Michael' is a great tune). Having done a bit of research, I believe that 'O little town' was actually written with the tune we associate with 'He smiles within his cradle' in mind. 'St. Louis' came later, although not much later.

I'm prepared to have 'Carol' instead of Sullivan's 'Noel' for 'It came upon the midnight clear', providing I can have 'Forest Green' for 'O little town'!

Some clergy will go to enormous extremes to stop the use of the King James Bible (or the Book of Common Prayer). We are lucky in that all principal services here (St. John's Cathedral, Newfoundland) are conducted using the BCP (which in Canada still is the BCP and not some compendium with a pirated title) and that our young folk, when asked to read, generally march up to the lectern with their KJB in their hand, rather than use the version provided. KJB is used at the Carol Service, the Advent Procession and the Candlemas Procession.

O Antiphons - our Advent Procession is built round these, with an antiphon, a reading and a motet or hymn at each station.

Our Carol Service is still held on the Sunday after Christmas. In practical terms, I'm not convinced that it is entirely right - it's certainly tough to have got through a demanding schedule of music for Midnight and Christmas morning and still have the Nine Lessons and Carols to do. There's no doubt that Christmas ends no later than 26th December for many people. I'm sitting on the fence on this one, although this year we've had so much snow that there's not much fence to sit on....

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

My choir sings "born that happy morning" except on Christmas Day which seems to solve any perceived semantic difficulty.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
O little town*,

* to the tune Forest Green, no American nonsense here!

Sorry for the huge bump and resurrection, but given that we are celebrating the feast day of Phillips Brooks tomorrow at Evensong, I thought I should mention something that I just learned.

Brooks, an American, wrote the words to "O Little Town of Bethlehem," in 1865. He handed the text to his church organist, another American, who produced a tune special for the poem, "St Louis." Forest Green in hymn tune form didn't yet exist, and it wouldn't appear in hymn form for another 41 years or so.

So while I honestly prefer Forest Green to St Louis, be aware that what you call "American nonsense" is actually the original tune, and "Forest Green" is the innovation that happened 40+ years later.

You may now go back to the your regularly scheduled season after Epiphany discussions, armed with a boring story for 11 months from now.

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