Thread: Christmastide Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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Happy Christmas
I hope you see that as meaning Happy Christmastide ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
How was Christmas at your church?
What do you do in the period to Epiphany?
Any special celebrations / social events ?
We try to maintain worship every day even if just two or three gather in his name.
Christmas day was lovely.
This year we decided to have cake and biscuits with coffee or tea after main morning worship and we found most people stayed, and we had several new faces stayed (and lots of regulars missing!)
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
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We had an almost 50% overall increase in numbers attending our four main services - Carol Service last Sunday afternoon, Crib Service and Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve, and morning Family Mass on Christmas Day.
I knew contacting Rentacongo.com would work......though seriously, praise be to God! IIRC, increased Christmas attendance was common across the UK last year.
We also had a well-received Carol Service at our local sheltered flats a little earlier in Advent (a monthly Mass there is a recent development), and were able to welcome a number of elderly or needy visitors to a free Christmas Dinner yesterday after Mass. A new venture for us, but it seemed to hit the spot for those who came along, and we hope to do it again next year.
Tomorrow we join with a neighbouring parish for their Patronal, and then it's back to the usual round of services on Saturday. We're celebrating Epiphany on Sunday (as permitted by the C of E), and will probably give our January Evensong & Benediction (on the 19th) an Epiphany-tide flavour.
Ian J.
Happy Christmas-tide!
Posted by bib (# 13074) on
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We had our traditional Midnight Mass and I'm very embarrassed to report that yours truly fell asleep in the armchair at home and didn't wake till after I was supposed to be at church for the choir prep before the service. I had to jump in my car and drive very fast (sorry Officer) and arrived in the nick of time. The service was wonderful and memorable, but I was very flustered as I hate being late for anything - I'm ocd about being late.
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
We're celebrating Epiphany on Sunday (as permitted by the C of E)...
This amazes me! I thought we were jumping the gun by celebrating Epiphany on 5 January. I'm gobsmacked that the C of E allows this.
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
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Well, the Common Worship lectionary does call it the 'Second Sunday of Christmas or The Epiphany', with a note to use the lections for January 6th if required. January 6th is clearly referred to as Epiphany, and I expect we shall celebrate it at Morning Prayer on the day.
It all sounds a bit cack-handed, I know, but one is more likely to get a reasonable congregation to celebrate what is, after all, a major Festival, on the Sunday.
Ian J.
Posted by Corvo (# 15220) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Well, the Common Worship lectionary does call it the 'Second Sunday of Christmas or The Epiphany', with a note to use the lections for January 6th if required. ...
But the Second Sunday of Christmas is 5 January - not this Sunday (29 December).
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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What do you think the reason was for the great increase in attendance Bishops F?
Congratulations to your church for doing it!
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
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Corvo - you are quite right, and I can only assume that too much Christmas cheer has had a deleterious effect.....we are celebrating Epiphany on 5th January, a day ahead - this Sunday is, of course, the First Sunday of Christmas.... ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Clotilde - I'm really not quite sure why we have had such a large increase in attendance this Christmas! Our regular congregation has grown slightly over the last year, but our ASA is still only 30-40. We do work hard at publicity, personal invitation, pastoral contacts at social/fundraising events etc., so one can but hope that some fruit is now being harvested.
Ian J.
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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Thanks Ian J. It sounds as if you work hard at things and I am pleased it has been blessed with good results.
I wonder sometimes how much leafleting an area actually works. Oh yes its good because it raises the profile of the church, but does it bring people across the htrshold. personal invitation seems to work best, but we need to have courage to do that, and I know I don't!
Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on
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Christmas at our place was lovely -- I'm told that there was very good attendance at the Christmas Eve 'Family Mass' (5 pm) which is a high mass with the Liturgy of the Word expanded/distorted to include the kiddies' pageant.
The 11 pm High Mass (with 30 min of music preceeding) was well attended (approx 150) with almost all of them being visitors. All went well, including some tricky choral stuff. Trumpet, flute, oboe & cello assisting.
Christmas morning was low mass with hymns at 10 am, about 30 in the house. (I got to play, thus not breaking my record; I've played Christmas Day mass somewhere every year since 1966.)
Posted by k-mann (# 8490) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Corvo:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Well, the Common Worship lectionary does call it the 'Second Sunday of Christmas or The Epiphany', with a note to use the lections for January 6th if required. ...
But the Second Sunday of Christmas is 5 January - not this Sunday (29 December).
I think Bishops Finger probably meant the second sunday of Christmas. So, when he said that they were "celebrating Epiphany on Sunday," it seems to me that he meant the nearest sunday, Jan. 5.
Edit: Ignore this. I had an old window open, so I didn't see the new response of Bishops Finger. But I was right. Yay!
[ 26. December 2013, 22:21: Message edited by: k-mann ]
Posted by k-mann (# 8490) on
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We had a great Christmas. On the 22nd (the fourth Sunday of Advent), my old parish in Bergen (Norway) had Nine Lessons and Carols. On Christmas Eve, at my home parish an hour outside Bergen, we had a traditional Norwegian Christmas Eve service, with lots of hymns and a good sermon, and on Christmas Day we had a great High Mass. I was in the ‘choir’ (the people leading the singing), as I have been at least the last 7-8 years. But this was probably the last one. Next year, I will probably work as a priest.
I will also probably go to the Midnight service on New Year’s Eve (at around 11 PM), and I will attend an annual ecclesial conference on January 3-5 (where I usually meet (now) Msgr. John Broadhurst). I am what one might call a Norwegian Anglo-Catholic (if that makes sense). I am part of the Catholic or High Church movement in the Church of Norway.
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
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Clotilde - we have a geographically small and compact parish, and it is our custom to deliver a free newsletter four times a year to every home in the parish (or as many as we can manage). I know that we do get some baptism enquiries from this, for example, but it's difficult to say how effective it might be. Now and then peeps tell us that they saw it 'in yer magazine, innit'.
We tend to work on the basis that, if you attempt nothing, you will achieve nothing, but if you attempt something, something may be achieved! We do believe, however, that personal contacts and invitations are best.
Ian J.
Posted by AndyB (# 10186) on
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Carol Service on the evening of the 22nd, short service on Christmas morning, and an off-duty Andy went to his local parish church for Midnight Communion.
This Sunday we mop up the carols we haven't yet used (being on loan to the Presbyterians, they don't do carols in the new year). In the meantime, here is a song that the thread title made me think of...
Christmastide, Mistletoe and wide,
Children having a one-horse sleigh ride,
With logs on the fire and gifts off the tree,
A time to have rows over the gifts they don't see.
Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on
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quote:
Originally posted by k-mann:
I am part of the Catholic or High Church movement in the Church of Norway.
Send some of that over here, k-mann. We are hanging on by a thread in the ELCA.
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on
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I was surprised at the small size of the congregation at the church I went to. An inner city Methodist church, the one where I went to Sunday school. Usually churches do better on Christmas day, but the 'normal' services I've attended there in recent months were much better attended.
And I don't think I'd ever been to a Christmas day service before where there were no kids! I was glad to miss the obsession with little children and their Christmas presents, but it was odd to see no kids at all.
I didn't ask the folk there what had happened, but I certainly will the next time I see any of them.
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
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Could it be that the younger families were out and about visiting relatives (having perhaps been to e.g. Carol/Christingle/Crib service)?
Christmas is sometimes difficult logistically if, as is common in our part of the world, the families are rather fragmented/reconstituted.....
Ian J.
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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We were Holy Family Sunday today, 29th December. The Mass included though the Carol 'Unto us a boy is born'. Low numbers but devotional.
I always find this confused chronology at this time of the year slightly muddling - so today we had the flight into Egypt, next Sunday we have the Wise men coming. I can imagine a bright child saying but they are not at home they have gone to Egypt
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
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Agreed re confused chronology! Holy Innocents yesterday, flight into Egypt today, Wise Men next Sunday, and the Baptism of Jesus the Sunday after (with The Naming/Circumcision of Jesus on New Year's Day - Mass re-timed for 12 noon).
Low-ish numbers today, as was to be expected (though more than last year) - many off sick with The Lurgy or on holiday - but some very welcome new people and visitors.
Ian J.
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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Yes, a lot of coughing going on at Church this morning, I noticed. There is a lot going around.
We have a special Eucharist on new Years Day for the New Year - praying for God's blessing on it and upon ourselves. Its late in the morning to allow those who stayed up for the New Year to attend.
Its not a different liturgy just rather a marking of the new year with prayer.
Posted by Stephen (# 40) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Well, the Common Worship lectionary does call it the 'Second Sunday of Christmas or The Epiphany', with a note to use the lections for January 6th if required. January 6th is clearly referred to as Epiphany, and I expect we shall celebrate it at Morning Prayer on the day.
It all sounds a bit cack-handed, I know, but one is more likely to get a reasonable congregation to celebrate what is, after all, a major Festival, on the Sunday.
Ian J.
Yep, we're doing the same.....
Now a conundrum for you. It is traditional to take down the Christmas decorations on Twelfth Night, the eve of the Epiphany
If you celebrate Epiphany on the Sunday a day early, should the Christmas deccies be taken down on the Saturday or the Sunday?
( I'm talking of at home rather than in church,btw)
Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on
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Made it though Lessons and Carols today. We still have the Children's Pageant next Sunday. (It was moved to make time for the children to meet and rehearse, AND make it more calming for the adults).
In total the Christmas Eve services (12, 5 and 11) had 100 more people than we were expecting ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
.
I'm still wondering where the new people are coming from...BTW so is the Bishop, and how to make it happen other places.
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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quote:
Originally posted by PataLeBon:
....
In total the Christmas Eve services (12, 5 and 11) had 100 more people than we were expecting .
I'm still wondering where the new people are coming from...BTW so is the Bishop, and how to make it happen other places.
Interested by this! How does the Bishop know so quickly about the figures attending? Do you have to send in figures to the bishop's office?
Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on
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The Bishop knows about our numbers expanding since he did his visit this month.
He is curious about what we are doing, but as I said, we have no idea where these people are coming from, but we've noticed that most seem to visit and stay.
Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on
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quote:
Originally posted by PataLeBon:
He is curious about what we are doing
Oh, the fun you could have with this... ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
Now a conundrum for you. It is traditional to take down the Christmas decorations on Twelfth Night, the eve of the Epiphany
If you celebrate Epiphany on the Sunday a day early, should the Christmas deccies be taken down on the Saturday or the Sunday?
( I'm talking of at home rather than in church,btw)
Traditional for whom? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
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A more ancient tradition has decorations taken down at Candlemas. Then again, that is sometimes anticipated on the previous Sunday.....
Posted by ORGANMEISTER (# 6621) on
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Olaf, just travel a few hundred miles east and you'll find the ELCA in these parts is fairly High Church.
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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New Years Eve: Anyone seeing Watchnight Services advertised locally?
I've a feeling they are something of the past, but I think they are popular in some denominations - don't the Methodists in some places like them, for example.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
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You may well be right; none of our local Baptist churches seem to be holding one, but the Elim Pentecostals are and the New Frontiers church has a "New Year Extravaganza" from 8pm.
Posted by Happy Pebble (# 2731) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
New Years Eve: Anyone seeing Watchnight Services advertised locally?
That's something I grew up with, and miss. Seems to be a forgotten tradition. Made perfect sense to me as a kid--what better way to start celebrating the New Year than church?
[fixed code]
[ 01. January 2014, 09:07: Message edited by: seasick ]
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on
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All Souls Langham Place has a Watchnight Service (I knew I'd seen a poster up somewhere.)
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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I think it never really caught on in the Church of England except maybe in certain 'low churches'. I honestly can't say I've come across it in any C of E church outside a big city, and not much in big cities either - but as we hear All Souls Langham Place.
Would be interesting to know if a Cathedral has or ever had one.
Maybe there is enough going on at this time of the year without adding an extra!
Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on
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quote:
Originally posted by ORGANMEISTER:
Olaf, just travel a few hundred miles east and you'll find the ELCA in these parts is fairly High Church.
Yes, that's very true. Unfortunately, we are slipping ever lower and lower in this Region, which unfortunately is where Churchwide HQ is located. I'm hoping that the new presiding bishop, from out closer to you, steers us farther away from the Low Church Upper Midwestern liturgical leanings and training of all of the former ELCA presiding bishops/presidents.
Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
A more ancient tradition has decorations taken down at Candlemas. Then again, that is sometimes anticipated on the previous Sunday.....
Yup. In our parish and my own home, the crèche stays up through Candlemas. The trees and other decorations come down the week after Epiphany.
Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on
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A moderately sized congregation for Christmas but this is not unusual when it comes in the midst of the summer holidays. Son came with his new foster family of teens and was sorry not to catch up with some old friends, who it turned out were celebrating family Christmas in other parts of the country; this accounted for quite a few other absentees, while there were a handful of visiting members of other families. Son also commented that he didn't know any of the songs/carols, so I must make sure that next year some of the traditional ones are included; goodness' knows we've been singing them during Advent.
The crib was occupied again, as at the children's Starshine Service the evening before, by my lifesize baby doll Barbara, now 77 years old but still doing her annual stint as Baby Jesus. I think it's time she went to the dolls' hospital for some rejuvenating surgery.
Clergy summer holidays mean that for 4 weeks we share services. Last Sunday the local Anglicans and neighbouring Uniting folk turned up (with their clergy), while for the next three Sundays we go visiting. We really enjoy getting together with old friends in this way; there have been times when we combined with St Luke's for things like church camp and even youth group, but it's always depended on the incumbent vicar and, I think, by some traditionalists in his/her congregation.
GG
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on
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Botox for baby Jesus ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
As well as having some trad carols you could send him a copy of the cd "Carol Our Christmas" next Advent if you use some of that music. There is also the book of words and music that goes with it.
Huia
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
Yup. In our parish and my own home, the crèche stays up through Candlemas. The trees and other decorations come down the week after Epiphany.
Curious and surprising linguistic usage here that I hadn't met before. A model nativity in a church here is called a 'crib'. A 'crèche' is the provision of childcare/supervision for small children while their parents are doing something else. In a church context, this something that is often provided during a service.
Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
Yup. In our parish and my own home, the crèche stays up through Candlemas. The trees and other decorations come down the week after Epiphany.
Curious and surprising linguistic usage here that I hadn't met before. A model nativity in a church here is called a 'crib'. A 'crèche' is the provision of childcare/supervision for small children while their parents are doing something else. In a church context, this something that is often provided during a service.
Yes, all of the devotional books from England that I have use the term "Christmas Crib." But in the US, the French word crèche, which also means crib, has long been used for the Nativity scene. Of course, some just call it a manger scene, but in church, it is most frequently referred to as a crèche. It has been this way since long before I was born.
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on
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So what word do you use to describe what we call a 'crèche'?
Posted by John Holding (# 158) on
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"nursery" or "childcare".
John
Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on
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In France what the British call a 'creche' is sometimes called une 'nursery
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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Now we are at 2nd January and beyond but still in Christmastide I'm wondering when it (Christmastide) ends.
Part of me says the day after Epiphany. Oh I know we talk about the Baptism and the Presentation on Feb 2, but do we keep Christmas trees up so long? When do we take Christmas cards down at home? When is the nativity scene put away at Church?
Many different answers I guess, and what is done, will, I'm sure suit the local community its done in and may differ from neighbours.
For myself house decorations go down the day after Twelfth Night - so they are up for Twelfth night.
At church I think the nativity set goes away after Epiphany but not sure.
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on
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Depends on the church. Christmastide can end at Candlemas or Presentation at the Temple - 2nd February. So some decorations could be kept up until then.
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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Yes, indeed.
The trouble is that 'some decorations' up until February 2nd suggests a fading away - decorations diminishing. Mind you I suppose we don't say feb 2nd is a climax, rather an ending.
The trouble is as Christians we don't keep the decorations up at home until Feb 2nd (do we? - perhaps some do).
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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Now that the Feast of the Epiphany is over I've taken down decorations at home, and it seems like back to work and back to school for the world.
We had a lovely celebration of Epiphany, and church remains in white for a while. However the trees have gone and most of the decorations.
I don't think there are any particular extras, traditional customs or ceremonies or whatever for the Feast of Jesus' Baptism - are there?
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on
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Looking forward to Plough Sunday this coming weekend.
Posted by Clotilde (# 17600) on
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I thought it was a Monday - Plough Monday - where did I get that from?
Posted by John Holding (# 158) on
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Looking forward to Plough Sunday this coming weekend.
The only ploughs in evidence on this side of the Atlantic, north of FLorida, say, are snow ploughs. As likely to be cursed (for leaving large mounds of snow at the bottom of city driveways) as blessed (for clearing the streets in the first place).
John
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on
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I was thinking to start another thread on the 'carrying over' of Christmas, but this thread also seems suitable.
How long can and should any reference to the actual Nativity go on for? Modern C. of E. practice includes the wearing of white vestments and other references until Candlemass, even though the Mass Readings are firmly based on 'Sundays after Ephipany'. Of course, we took down our Christmas decorations, and I've even eaten most of my selection box so it seems odd to be looking back in this way even if it would be nice to have a few reminders of the midwinter fun to keep us going...
Also, if anybody is keeping Septuagesimatide I'd love to hear about it!
Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on
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quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
I was thinking to start another thread on the 'carrying over' of Christmas, but this thread also seems suitable.
How long can and should any reference to the actual Nativity go on for? Modern C. of E. practice includes the wearing of white vestments and other references until Candlemass, even though the Mass Readings are firmly based on 'Sundays after Ephipany'. Of course, we took down our Christmas decorations, and I've even eaten most of my selection box so it seems odd to be looking back in this way even if it would be nice to have a few reminders of the midwinter fun to keep us going...
Also, if anybody is keeping Septuagesimatide I'd love to hear about it!
In the RCC, the Christmas decorations come down at the feast of the Baptism of Our Lord this coming Sunday (Monday in the Extraordinary Form). The more liturgically-minded parishes may leave the creche up until Candlemas. The Marian antiphons change at Candlemas, also.
In the Extraordinary Form, the old kalendar is followed, and we keep Septuagesima. So at my FSSP parish, it is observed after several weeks of Epiphany. Since Easter is very late this year, Septuagesima does not start until late February this year.
Posted by Gildas (# 525) on
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quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
I was thinking to start another thread on the 'carrying over' of Christmas, but this thread also seems suitable.
How long can and should any reference to the actual Nativity go on for? Modern C. of E. practice includes the wearing of white vestments and other references until Candlemass, even though the Mass Readings are firmly based on 'Sundays after Ephipany'. Of course, we took down our Christmas decorations, and I've even eaten most of my selection box so it seems odd to be looking back in this way even if it would be nice to have a few reminders of the midwinter fun to keep us going...
Also, if anybody is keeping Septuagesimatide I'd love to hear about it!
Practice here is to dismantle the crib and the deccos after Epiphany but to remain in white until Candlemas. That seems in keeping with Comic Worship which has one set of propers for Christmas Eve until the Eve of the Epiphany and then another from the Eve of the Epiphany to the Eve of Candlemas (then ordinary time until Lent).
Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Gildas:
Practice here is to dismantle the crib and the deccos after Epiphany but to remain in white until Candlemas. That seems in keeping with Comic Worship which has one set of propers for Christmas Eve until the Eve of the Epiphany and then another from the Eve of the Epiphany to the Eve of Candlemas (then ordinary time until Lent).
Sorry, couldn't help but enjoy the "Comic Worship." ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Posted by Gildas (# 525) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
quote:
Originally posted by Gildas:
Practice here is to dismantle the crib and the deccos after Epiphany but to remain in white until Candlemas. That seems in keeping with Comic Worship which has one set of propers for Christmas Eve until the Eve of the Epiphany and then another from the Eve of the Epiphany to the Eve of Candlemas (then ordinary time until Lent).
Sorry, couldn't help but enjoy the "Comic Worship."
C.f. Nervous Ordo
I should, of course have added Candlemas itself between the Eve of Candlemas and ordinary time!
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