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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Sunday School
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I've dithered over which board to post this on, and am happy if the Hosts decide to move it.
How does your church plan and conduct Sunday School? Do you use a curriculum? If so, what? When does the Sunday School come back into the service, and what does it do when it gets there?
I'm interested in hearing about how different churches conduct the religious education and encourage the spiritual growth of young children, especially on a Sunday morning.
I'm more interested in what you do, and have seen done that works than in nightmare stories--believe me, I've got a massive collection of those!
[ 20. January 2014, 07:51: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I'm not answering your question directly. But it does seem to me that one is seeking to do two different things with children: one is to give them the basic Bible knowledge they need as a foundation for faith, the other is to foster their spirituality and sense of the numinous. (I suspect that, in some traditions, Sunday School will also seek to enculturate children within their history).
IME the first aim is often fulfilled in churches, albeit the children build up a corpus of knowledge from Bible stories but don't link it together into a coherent whole. But this "didactic" approach is frequently all there is; the sense of the spiritual is hardly cultivated at all.
Approaches such as "Godly Play" are a good way of filling this gap although I personally think that GP would be dull if used all the time!
[ 20. January 2014, 08:09: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Our Sunday School runs at the same time as the main service. It is held in the church hall which is sufficiently far from the church to make it impossible for the children to dip in and out of the service.
For this reason the Eucharist on the first Sunday of the month is designated a "Family Eucharist" and SS children are expected/encouraged to attend with their parents.
SS is big in our area because the only half-way decent state secondary school is CofE so people want the forms signed; once they have got the school place there are significant numbers who don't darken our doors again.
SS is run according to a curriculum - where from I can't help.
The only parish where I've found families attending in numbers and children being successfully turning into teen and then adult worshippers was VERY high AC and there was no Sunday School.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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gog
Shipmate
# 15615
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Posted
We have a Sunday school (known as Junior Church), where the younger ones (primary school age) head out after the second hymn, usually having had some sort of children's talk, and been in for prayers. The "curriculum" is generally the lectionary readings, and they use the materials from Roots (Children and Young People) as a starting point.
The teenagers have a separate meeting, that happens alongside church at a near by location, and they join us after the service. this group is much more discussion based and engaging with ideas. The older group is also in their multiple churches (having acquired the teens from several different churches of late) on the first Sunday of the month.
Posts: 103 | From: somewhere over the border | Registered: Apr 2010
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Our Sunday School for children is quite small, and runs from 10-1050. The service begins at 11. All but the very smallest children are there for the main service, and all of them are quite well-behaved. I think it helps that I've got the majority of them working as acolytes, which they take very seriously.
We use the curriculum published by The United Methodist Publishing House. Given the small numbers and the volunteer teachers, it was the best option.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I've been looking at the curriculum from the Virginia Theological Seminary--now out of print, but available online. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has experience of it, or of Sarah Lenton's 'Creative Ideas for Children's Worship.'
I'm familiar with Roots and Godly Play.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
I was slightly hesitant about posting as I am not an Anglican so a lot of what I say will not be helpful for you but here goes. Our Sunday school also probably isn't very representative as we are a large charismatic church meeting in a small warehouse with about 80-100 children spread between our 2 morning services.
Most young children come to the first service and we often have over 20 2-4 year olds there. The children stay in for 15 mins of informal worship and then go out to separate groups: pre-schoolers and primary, in different places.
I believe the pre-schoolers play then do songs followed by a story, often using puppets to tell the story or acted out by the children dressed up. They have a puppet called Mr Bible whom the children interact with pantomime style (we can hear them shout his name in the main service in the middle of our sermon ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ) who says the verses for the day. Afterwards they do a craft activity or games or puzzles. I'm guessing there must be some form of prayer in there too, presumably after the story. So quite a standard format. They have a termly craft party to break with routine. We collect children after the service using a named card system as part of the child safety requirement and we all go back to the main room to socialise over coffee and squash.
Primary school children have small year specific groups for talking over a current topic, join together for their own short worship session followed by the usual story and then smaller groups again for craft activity. There are prizes for remembering their bible regularly and during quizzes. Once a term they have a praise party where they just sing and dance and a craft party, with different craft stations on biblical themes. These are very popular with the children.
Children do sometimes stay in the main service instead and there are usually toddlers wandering around during the sermon. The church has a very relaxed attitude to children being present and is very keen that children are seen as part of an inclusive church; we don't have separate family services. Out of term time all children stay in the service and play quietly on the floor or at the back of church during the sermon, there are usually activity booklets around. Worship is often signed so younger children can join in, children can dance around during worship and are welcome to come forward with a word for the congregation just as an adult would. If we are having communion and children are present we share it with them.
Sunday school is for the under 12s, the youth group have their own meeting during the second service but several of these, like our 12 year old, attend the first service and stay with their parents for the sermon and then attend the second service for youth group. This group is informal discussion based with bible study but they are also meet socially.
I believe the church used to write its own materials but we now use other resources, I'll ask my husband who is one of the pre-school leaders.
As I said, some of this would be impractical/inappropriate for some churches. But I do think the idea of breaking up the usual rhythm of Sunday school with the occasional themed session would be adaptable and enjoyable. In our case we use praise parties and craft parties but you may find other themes more appropriate to your needs. I think that it is important that children feel part of the main church as well, and I guess that is why it is common for children to rejoin a congregation before the end of the service.
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
As I've said elsewhere, our current church doesn't run a regular Sunday School because we don't have enough children or adults to make it viable. Although 10% of our congregation are primary school age we have a congregation of ~25, the majority of whom are grandparents.
We did try a larger church in the denomination where there are enough children to usually manage two Sunday School classes (I think the split was approximately at P4; so under 8 and older than 8). I regularly accompanied our son to the younger group because he didn't want to go through without mum or dad there (which, because we went there so we could be in the service rather than one of us always taking the boy out to another room was one reason why we didn't stick there), and there was usually some craft activity organised though rarely relating to either the childrens address or the sermon. Our boy never really liked craft things (unlike his younger sister), which was another reason it didn't work for us. The children then returned to church before the last hymn and shared what they'd done with the congregation.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
We don't have a Sunday School since we only have two regular children, and only one of them would be old enough for it. Both will be leaving in September when mum goes off to train for ordination.
In previous churches (evangelical Anglican of various levels of conservatism), the kids went out just before the sermon and joined their parents once the service was over.
*misses children at church*
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
These days, we have two services on a Sunday morning, and our Sunday School takes place in the hour-long gap between them. There's usually some kind of Adult Christian Education in that slot, too.
It does make for a long morning for the little ones, though.
ETA: Our Sunday School classes are grouped according to school grade. There's Godly Play for the preschoolers and kindergartners, then separate classes for each of first through fifth grade.
The middle-school kids also meet in this time-slot, but they do more of a discussion group thing, with the leaders being facilitators.
[ 20. January 2014, 16:33: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
The kids at our place do a godly play based lesson during the liturgy of the word at the 9:00 service. They come in at the offertory. Most of our kids are primary school aged, but a few are getting to be middle school aged, and they are starting up a middle school program to run at the same time as the godly play class.
When I was growing up at a church with lots of kids, they used to do "children's chapel" during the liturgy of the word AND a Sunday School class between the 9:00 and 11:15 services. I always sat through the entire service with my parents and then went to Sunday School after the service.
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Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Please note:
USA style Sunday School is All Age and at a different time to the Service
UK style Sunday School is a parallel activity for younger children that runs during part of the main service.
Old Style Sunday School UK: Happens on a Sunday Afternoon and is for children to mid-teens. It still existed into the 1990s in at least one place in the UK, but I do not know what has happened since.
Jengie
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
We have a vestry group to which all children are invited (but not compulsory; there is also a play corner, choir, acolytes, etc, so not all children go to Vestry). They go out after the first hymn and follow a similar theme to the main service, involving lots of craft activities, sometimes small plays. At the end of the service, the vestry group give a small presentation (5 mins. or so) on what they have been doing, what lessons they have learnt, show what they have made, or perform their little play. The older ones help the younger ones, so it is very much all-age. It is a lovely way to end the service, and sometimes the young ones, in their innocence and youth, have managed to capture the essence of the Scripture readings better than the preacher!
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
At our church children's religious education tends to be centered around catechism class, when the kids are tweenage and older. Before that, there's a brief all-ages Sunday School for smaller children that begins after a children's time with the whole congregation and right before the reading of the lessons and ends in time for the children to join their parents for Communion. It's obviously not intended to provide a comprehensive religious education -- it uses child-friendly materials from our denomination to convey the theme of the particular Sunday, with activities and movement and take-away activity pages and such.
There is a movement in our circles to "kill Sunday School"; its proponents assert that Sunday School is a fairly modern invention that's outlived its usefulness; for a variety of sociodemographic reasons its traditional formats no longer seem to work in many congregations; it creates a kind of age apartheid that separates children from the rest of the congregation despite the fact that, in our tradition, they're considered a part of that congregation; it uses human and other resources that might better be directed elsewhere. The movement wants to put the responsibility back on parents/families for their children's early religious formation.
At the church we previously attended the education committee created what amounted to a homeschool Sunday School curriculum; parents received monthly packets containing lessons based on the lectionary, prayers, suggestions for whole-family activities and paper activities for the kids to do on their own. Once a month the church had a short children's meetup -- during the service, between the first part of the liturgy and the offering -- with singing and an activity. In addition, the church held a "family worship service" for young families -- think Messy Church -- every month, with a breakout session for the kids and a socializing time for the parents; the two groups did their respective things, then came back for a short worship service.
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Simul iustus et peccator
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Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Old Style Sunday School UK: Happens on a Sunday Afternoon and is for children to mid-teens. It still existed into the 1990s in at least one place in the UK, but I do not know what has happened since.
Since this was as much for non-church as church kids (possibly even more so), one could say that is has transmogrified into midweek "Bible Clubs" and the like.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Old Style Sunday School UK: Happens on a Sunday Afternoon and is for children to mid-teens. It still existed into the 1990s in at least one place in the UK, but I do not know what has happened since.
Since this was as much for non-church as church kids (possibly even more so), one could say that is has transmogrified into midweek "Bible Clubs" and the like.
Yes, church-run after-school clubs seem like the most obvious descendents of old-style Sunday School.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Our Sunday School has 8 to 10 kids, the children leave after the Children's Lesson, which is after the first hymn, and stay out for the rest of the service. That's the near universal pattern in the UCCan.
I think we use the United Church curriculum. They tend to do bible-book themed lessons. There are also movies and such.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
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Francophile
Shipmate
# 17838
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Ours tends to follow the lectionary gospel but if our kids ask a question which might lead to future sessions, we suspend the lectionary and explore whatever issue they asked about.
Our kids tend to be clever - children of uni. lecturers and the like, which is in the nature of our uni. chaplaincy church status.
Children of dishwashers are thick as mince then? What utter tosh.
Posts: 243 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2013
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Vulpior
Foxier than Thou
# 12744
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Posted
Our children's church runs in the hall during school term time. Children are invited to go out immediately after the processional hymn.
They seem to return at about the offertory hymn, though I think I've noticed them arriving during the eucharistic prayer.
The notices take place after the post-communion prayers and before the final hymn, and at that point the children are invited to say and show what they have been doing.
I sometimes wonder about the value of it, but I haven't put my hand up to be involved so I'm not really in a place to criticise!
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
About an hour ago I wrote an enormous post, and then accidentally deleted it. Suffice it to say that my own experience of Religious School is Jewish, and I am wrestling with the question of how best to hand on Scripture, tradition, and a life of prayer to the children of my churches in about an hour a week. I know the history of the Sunday School movement in the 19th c--Owen Chadwick's 2 volume 'The Victorian Church' is on my desk.
When I was a child, my siblings and I had 4 hours of religious school every weekend from the age of 5 onwards until university. This didn't include Hebrew School, which was on weekday evenings. It did include a children's service (with Debbie Friedman as music leader), and a curriculum which included the Scriptures, liturgy, and the Jewish Festivals, ethics, Jewish history, and what people of other religions believe. There were also crafts, plays, a snack and a marvellous magazine which, in true Reform Jewish style had a cartoon strip of Heroes of Judaism on the back--among them, as I recall, Anne Frank, Rosa Luxemburg, Emma Goldman, Spinoza, Leo Baeck, and the Baal Shem Tov! The synagogue had been build with classrooms, a library, and an art room. The parents paid tuition (on top of the tithe they were assessed by the synagogue board), and we all brought in something from our pocket-money as tzedakah--a contribution to a charity that the Sunday School had selected as a good one for the children to contribute to. Our teachers were members of the congregation, mostly in their twenties, apart from lovely Mrs Spiegel who taught the first grade and Mr Shepherd, he of the toupée and memorization prizes, who taught the ten year olds. I understand that this is still pretty much the pattern of Reform Jewish religious education in the US--though I think we may have been unique in learning 'There Were Five Constipated Men in the Bible' from Mr Weinblatt.
You gather it was memorable. So how do we, as Christians, make our faith and our religious life and history memorable to our children? How do we hand them on in an hour a week? How do we instill in our baptismal families the desire and the will to pray with their children at bedtime, to say grace over meals, to read bible stories?
For me, Messy Church and Godly Play aren't the answer: the first seems too eager and gimmicky, the second irritates the hell out of me with its smarmy interjection of 'I wonder...'--not to mention the way it fillets out the Scriptures. But what is? How do we do it? Where I am now, the Sunday School is, and has been, growing for the last three years. But how do we keep building on it? How do we make it better?
That's my background and these are my questions, and why I'm interested in what you're doing where you are--what works and what doesn't.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
posted by Francophile quote:
Our kids tend to be clever - children of uni. lecturers and the like, which is in the nature of our uni. chaplaincy church status.
(hit tit by mistake, should have added...)
According to that "logic" uni lectureships should be handed down on a hereditary basis or similar; all children of musicians are automatically musical; only the children of RAs should paint, etc, etc, etc.
I have to ask, do you apply this type of Marie-Antoinette reasoning to your students?
[ 21. January 2014, 11:35: Message edited by: L'organist ]
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Francophile
Shipmate
# 17838
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Posted
I didn't post the comment about children of uni lecturers tending to be clever. I took issue with it.
Posts: 243 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2013
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Please note:
USA style Sunday School is All Age and at a different time to the Service
UK style Sunday School is a parallel activity for younger children that runs during part of the main service.
Ah, I didn't quite catch that before. Thanks.
Around here (US), the UK Sunday School is referred to as "Children's Church" or "Kids' Church", and there are a certain number of children who will attend both Sunday School (of the US variety) and kids church. My wife was the assistant children's director at a medium-sized UMC church in a nearby city for a while. Because the church ran several services on Sunday morning (a couple of which were concurrent), she would do two or three sessions throughout the morning for the two or three groups of kids that would come through. One or two might be Sunday School, and one or two might be kids' church. I'm not remembering now which was which.
Anyway, thanks for the distinction, Jengie.
(ETA: All the apostrophes look wrong to me, but they look more wrong the other way. My apologies to the grammar nuts out there.)
[ 21. January 2014, 11:58: Message edited by: Barefoot Friar ]
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Bran Stark
Shipmate
# 15252
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Please note:
USA style Sunday School is All Age and at a different time to the Service
UK style Sunday School is a parallel activity for younger children that runs during part of the main service.
Hm well then my (United Church of Christ, USA) church has "UK style Sunday School", apparently. The kids arrive with their parents, stay with them for the first few minutes of the service, go to the altar for a brief mini-sermon, and then depart for their classrooms for the next 45 minutes or so.
I think it's kind of a shame, since Sunday School Teacher becomes a job incompatible with ordinary worship attendance.
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IN SOVIET ЯUSSIA, SIGNATUЯE ЯEAD YOU!
Posts: 304 | Registered: Oct 2009
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
A lot of American churches use the Sunday school-at-the-same-time model, and it does stink if you're a teacher and can't get to worship. Some of us have to trade off Sundays or else worship on Saturday night, etc. to make it work. But the alternative--having Sunday school when regular worship is not occurring--means in our experience that parents attend worship, gather up the kids, and go home. The kids are sleepy beforehand and cranky and hungry afterward--you've got built-in reasons for not staying (or arriving) early. The alternative--that both parents and children spend an hour in study--is a nice idea, but it can be hard to get that commitment.
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Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
What my childhood church did, and what it appears the local protestant churches in my area do now, is to have their early service (8ish), Sunday School (usually starting at 9:30 or 10), followed by the later service (at 11AM). As I understand it, this both allows teachers and older children to attend both SS and a service, but also allows for "adult Sunday School" to be held.
[ 21. January 2014, 15:26: Message edited by: Siegfried ]
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Please note:
USA style Sunday School is All Age and at a different time to the Service
UK style Sunday School is a parallel activity for younger children that runs during part of the main service.
Old Style Sunday School UK: Happens on a Sunday Afternoon and is for children to mid-teens. It still existed into the 1990s in at least one place in the UK, but I do not know what has happened since.
Jengie
I don't recognize this as a US/UK difference, I think it's rather a church-to-church or denomination-to-denomination one.
The church I attended as a child (US Restorationist) had Sunday School running simultaneously to the main service for children 11 and younger. From 12 up they attended the main service and had youth group on a weeknight.
What you describe as "USA style" sounds like what my Roman Catholic friends participated in - they called it CCD (no idea what is stands for) which was both all age and at a different time to the main services.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
What the British Afro-Caribbean (and perhaps also the African churches) tend to do is either have Sunday School just before the worship service, or just afterwards. This Sunday School will be for everyone, with children going off for their own lessons but also expected to attend the worship service. Churchgoers who don't want to attend Sunday School can time their arrival or departure accordingly.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
Changing a parish's education routine is a major challenge. In my previous parish it was decided at one point to have an education hour for all ages rather than during-a-service Sunday School. Couldn't be done due to uproar from parents for whom the obstacles were too great: getting kids up and ready and to church an hour earlier; spending two hours in church instead of one.
I've always admired Lutheran churches that have a longstanding pattern of two services with an education hour between them, and not squeezed in but buffered with time to socialize and get where one needs to be, so something like 8:30 a.m. Service, 9:40 a.m. Education Hour, and 11 a.m. Service. Getting from another pattern to that one, though, is much harder than just declaring the new schedule, unless you have so many members with kids that you can offer two patterns (maybe two Sunday School times) to fit more families' possible routines.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Ours tends to follow the lectionary gospel but if our kids ask a question which might lead to future sessions, we suspend the lectionary and explore whatever issue they asked about.
Our kids tend to be clever - children of uni. lecturers and the like, which is in the nature of our uni. chaplaincy church status.
Children of dishwashers are thick as mince then? What utter tosh.
Not necessarily. I don't think you'd run the same curriculum in a working class parish that you would in a middle class parish.
I was all in favour of mixed ability teaching in my day but most day schools go in for setting these days.
You can't set in a Sunday School unless you have a lot of kids and a lot of staff.
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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Seekingsister
Just read the post above yours and see it is an American from a mainline American Poster.
That is highly unusual in the UK among historic denominations. Not nowhere but very rare.
Jengie
[ 21. January 2014, 17:51: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
In my experience Sunday School is usually a during the service thing in everywhere I've been except the conservative church where I grew up. However, the Sunday morning church I attend is now trying a new thing where there are two services with Sunday school in between. My daughter (5) is definitely having some frustrations with suddenly being expected to pay attention during church. So harder to focus for me these days. But the alternative was much worse, because basically all the children played in the back of the service together until Children's Time in which they were corralled to the front and put on exhibit for a couple minutes until they are allowed to flee to Sunday School. Hopefully as sitting still becomes easier and as the rest of the service becomes easier to understand (as she grows) this will become less frustrating for her. As it is, I think church is neutral at best for her except for Sunday School, and I worry about that.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Prester John
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# 5502
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Posted
My experience has always been age appropriate classes right before the main Sunday service and a weekly age appropriate class on Wednesday nights. The expectation for children was that they would sit with their parents during the main worship service.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
However, the Sunday morning church I attend is now trying a new thing where there are two services with Sunday school in between. My daughter (5) is definitely having some frustrations with suddenly being expected to pay attention during church.
My elder ones had trouble sitting through an hour and a half of church immediately after an hour of Sunday School at that age. Our solution was to skip the Sunday School for a couple of years. By the time ours were in second grade, they were keen to go to the Sunday School as well as church.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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PataLeBon
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# 5452
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Posted
My church uses many different approaches to the religious education of children.
Sunday School occurs between the early and late services. For children 3-9, we use Catechesis of the Good Shepherd (therefore, we have a level I and a level II atrium). For children 10+ we use the Episcopal Children and Youth curriculum. So Amos I do know it (and have taught it to younger children YEARS ago when it first came out....)
We also have Children's Chapel for ages 3-6 which occurs during the late service. That one uses a combination of Morehouse's Celebrate the Good News curriculum, Godly Play, and well...what ever the storyteller/leader wishes to use that fits the lectionary for that day.
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That's between you and your god. Oh, wait a minute. You are your god. That's a problem. - Jack O'Neill (Stargate SG1)
Posts: 1907 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
Where do you lot get these children who actually want to be there and will sit through hours of churchy stuff? I know I don't have any of that kind.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Where do you lot get these children who actually want to be there and will sit through hours of churchy stuff? I know I don't have any of that kind.
I think this might be a cultural thing. IMO the average British mainstream MOTR church expects to maintain a very calm, quiet atmosphere during services. However, British children aren't known for their calm, quiet demeanour in public. So there's a mismatch right there!
Pentecostal and charismatic worship - especially in the black churches - tends to be noisier, a bit more chaotic, less concerned about punctuality. Fidgeting children are less of a disruption in this environment. But I also suspect that the parents in some of those churches are also stricter than the average British parent, so the kids know they can't just play up with impunity. They just get used to the long hours in service, and because other kids are there, they won't feel alone.
I understand that American congregations are normally bigger, have more children, and are less dominated by the elderly than British ones. These factors may make church less alienating for young children.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Callan
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# 525
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Posted
One rural congregation I was involved with had a churchwarden with very boisterous grandchildren which was paydirt because you can't criticise the churchwardens grandchildren, which meant that, if they were off limits, so were the other kids. One Christmas morning I was celebrating the Holy Eucharist, as one does, and during the final carol my daughter, who was three at the time, decided that it would be a good move to hide under the skirts of daddy's cassock. Naturally, I looked behind me and caught the expression of the servers who were clearly trying to keep it together and not quite succeeding before turning round to discover that my congregation were also trying to keep it together and not quite succeeding. There was a wide consensus that it was the best Christmas morning service since the Old Queen's reign (and possibly the best attended). Afterwards the churchwarden came up to me and confided: "I do feel relieved when your little girl is being mischievous because I feel less self-conscious about my lot".
Incidentally, that PCC took a decision not to have a Sunday School because the parents preferred to worship with their children. This meant that we had an awful lot of All Age Worship which, I suspect, would not have been the cup of tea of many of the posters on this board but we did have a steady trickle of people coming to faith so we were obviously doing something right although I must confess I was not always sure what!
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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IconiumBound
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# 754
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I've posted about our church (USA) and its "in-between" service for toddlers (1-5) AND their families. But it has worked so well for four years that I must recommend it again.
This is a full Eucharist celebration held in the church at the front altar. It is short and edited for understanding and participation by both children and their parents. It is also short, 45 minutes, which has appeal for young families.
We have had about 35 new familes added to th regular congregation as the children grew older.
Posts: 1318 | From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Where do you lot get these children who actually want to be there and will sit through hours of churchy stuff? I know I don't have any of that kind.
I visit a lot of (historic) churches as it is an interest of mine. So get to see inside a lot of them (the ones that are open or give details of a keyholder, anyway). And in almost all of them now, even deeply rural ones, there is an activity corner with all sorts of books, play equipment, crayons, pens, paper, activity sheets, etc. So that children and families can go somewhere and do something, yet be able to hear what is going on in the main service.
This provision has improved hugely since my own children were small. Perhaps your part of the country is unusual and doesn't provide this facility?
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Where do you lot get these children who actually want to be there and will sit through hours of churchy stuff? I know I don't have any of that kind.
I know this isn't quite what Karl is talking about, but I know a toddler who chose a visit to the cathedral over a visit to the zoo the other day and he frequents other local churches too. It's partly that hw loves bells and organs, but there's no guarantee that he'll hear them being played. Not sure Hesse good at sitting through a service though...
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Heavenly Anarchist
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# 13313
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Posted
My 12 year old will often read his kindle during the first service, though he usually likes to listen to the sermon. The 9 year old sits and listens to the songs and watches the musicians if he doesn't want to join in with singing before Sunday school, when he was smaller he had a few cars to play with on the floor. He often brings a book during the holidays and lies on the floor with it and church provides activity books too. We expect our own children to behave reasonably well but they aren't required to sit stock still and silent.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
The choir at my church is very large, as the organist/choir director is extremely good. One of the grandkids of a man in the tenor section who had Down's Syndrome used to run up to his Grandpa during to service to visit. Nobody minded. Now it's quite usual for the grandkids to visit members of the choir during the service. The entrances to the choir loft are at the sides of the chancel near the steps (the choir sits behind the chancel) so nobody minds.
Everybody here likes kids running through the place, it gives it a life and vitality, and everybody wants to see Grandma and Grandpa. ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Where do you lot get these children who actually want to be there and will sit through hours of churchy stuff? I know I don't have any of that kind.
I visit a lot of (historic) churches as it is an interest of mine. So get to see inside a lot of them (the ones that are open or give details of a keyholder, anyway). And in almost all of them now, even deeply rural ones, there is an activity corner with all sorts of books, play equipment, crayons, pens, paper, activity sheets, etc. So that children and families can go somewhere and do something, yet be able to hear what is going on in the main service.
This provision has improved hugely since my own children were small. Perhaps your part of the country is unusual and doesn't provide this facility?
Activity corners are still deeply boring to most modern children, particularly older ones who are really too old for that, but are bored witless by the service.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
What you describe as "USA style" sounds like what my Roman Catholic friends participated in - they called it CCD (no idea what is stands for) which was both all age and at a different time to the main services.
Confraternity of Christian Doctrine. A 16th century institution which was aimed, at least when I was a child in pre-vatican II days, at students attending public schools and therefore not able to enjoy religious training in their regular classroom situation.
As I recall, the curriculum was essentially on memorizing answer to questions on such topics as the Apostle's Creed. I can still see the green paperback cover (Baltimore Catechism?) and the gold stars applied to the workbook page when one wrote the correct answer.
I learned very little of spiritual value during these catechism classes except:
(a) the nuns could be quite severe about parents who did not send send their children to Catholic schools; and
(b) my mother, a completely secular soul from a vaguely Protestant background who nevertheless spent hours helping me prepare my memorized answers, was and is a saint.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
Posts: 547 | From: here | Registered: Sep 2012
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Activity corners are still deeply boring to most modern children, particularly older ones who are really too old for that, but are bored witless by the service.
When I used to take my sons to concerts, I used to let them take books of their choice, and don't see why they can't do that in church services as well. Hand held games, with earphones, might also be appropriate at times, but I personally would limit their use only to non-participatory parts of the service!
I asked our vestry group leader about the materials she used and this is her reply:
I use a variety of different resources actually, it keeps it varied and interesting then.
I have my own set format of: a bag with words and objects in, the children find and read the reading in the Bible, talky bit, craft or play, prepare feedback, prayer.
I have a set of books called Living Stones which are useful, particularly as I usually follow the set Gospel readings.
I have a few favourite websites, American mostly: Sermons4Kids, DLTK, Calvary Kids. They often lead on to other sites with good craft ideas.
I also have a good book called Telling the Bible by Bob Hartman.
Plus, surprisingly, some ideas just pop into my head!!
Hope this information is useful.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Activity corners are still deeply boring to most modern children, particularly older ones who are really too old for that, but are bored witless by the service.
When I used to take my sons to concerts, I used to let them take books of their choice, and don't see why they can't do that in church services as well. Hand held games, with earphones, might also be appropriate at times, but I personally would limit their use only to non-participatory parts of the service!
I asked our vestry group leader about the materials she used and this is her reply:
I use a variety of different resources actually, it keeps it varied and interesting then.
I have my own set format of: a bag with words and objects in, the children find and read the reading in the Bible, talky bit, craft or play, prepare feedback, prayer.
I have a set of books called Living Stones which are useful, particularly as I usually follow the set Gospel readings.
I have a few favourite websites, American mostly: Sermons4Kids, DLTK, Calvary Kids. They often lead on to other sites with good craft ideas.
I also have a good book called Telling the Bible by Bob Hartman.
Plus, surprisingly, some ideas just pop into my head!!
Hope this information is useful.
It's very introvert-orientated, I think. Fine for introvert kids, less good for extroverts. It's not that they are bad activities - they're not at all - but it does not take different kinds of children into account. I think there is a problem with seeing adults as individuals but children as a homogenous group (not saying you are doing this at all). At my church we only have two regular children, one junior school aged and one preschool aged (they are siblings). The junior school aged one is a natural introvert and is quite happy to sit and draw or read and just absorb what is happening, but the preschooler wants to run and play and....can't.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
We have only 2-5 children on a Sunday. They start out with a lesson based on scripture assigned for that Sunday. then they do some kind of craft activity and return to the church at the Peace and share communion with their families.
Age range of children is 4 to 13 years this means older children help younger children. We also say that the children have a choice to stay in church with parents or go out to Sunday School. All go out.
There is a very close bond that has developed between the adults and children in our church.
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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