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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Readers' Robing for Funerals
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
I am a Reader (Voluntary Lay Minister) in the Church of England. Correct wear for a Reader when officiating is Cassock, Surplice, Reader's Scarf (blue) and Academic Hood (if worn). I am sometimes called upon to take funerals, and assumed that I should dress as prescribed (including Ll.B. hood, which tones nicely with my blue scarf). However, I have recently been informed by my Vicar that I should only wear the hood when in Choir Dress, and that it is not appropriate for funerals. I'm not upset about this, I just wonder why. Can any Shipmate enlighten me? If this has been raised before or elsewhere, I apologise.
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
Eirenist, at the heart of the matter is the difference between the two types of services: scarf and hood are for the Offices of Morning and Evening Prayer (OK, I know some people would wear them for other services as well), whilst for the occasional Pastoral Services, sans the hood is right.
Take the lead from your Vicar at the time - if he doesn't, then you don't either, etc.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
Choir dress is the appropriate garb for a Reader conducting a funeral, in my judgement as a retired Warden of Readers!
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
A funeral isn't a sacrament, so IMO choir dress (including hood) is entirely appropriate.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I'd suggest that unless the relatives of the bereaved request something different that would seem entirely appropriate...
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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BulldogSacristan
Shipmate
# 11239
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Posted
But aren't readers always in choir dress? IE Isn't a surplice and scarf sans hood also choir dress?
Posts: 197 | From: Boston, Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2006
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
The practice varies among clergy I know. Some do and some do not wear hoods at funerals.
Wearing hoods (for those entitled) is 'normal' in canon law in the C of E with surplice and scarf/tippet.
I've never heard why some discourage or disapprove of it at funerals/weddings.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Simple question. Will whether the Reader taking the funeral is wearing or not wearing an academic hood make it easier or harder for the deceased to enter heaven?
Unless one can answer that question with complete confidence that one is right, isn't the better answer to do as one's vicar says?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
I don't believe having a funeral makes any difference to the deceased's prospects of entering heaven so why not dispense with the whole lot?
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
But aren't readers always in choir dress? IE Isn't a surplice and scarf sans hood also choir dress?
Yes, but it is incorrect to wear a hood at Sacramental services. I'm sure someone more well informed than I am will be able to explain why that is
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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american piskie
Shipmate
# 593
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
But aren't readers always in choir dress? IE Isn't a surplice and scarf sans hood also choir dress?
Yes, but it is incorrect to wear a hood at Sacramental services. I'm sure someone more well informed than I am will be able to explain why that is
Incorrect or not it is what the Canons of the Church of England prescribed until a few years ago for graduates (except in Cathedrals).
Canons of 1604 See LVIII.
Posts: 356 | From: Oxford, England, UK | Registered: Jun 2001
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
I'd like to know that as well Spike - makes no sense to me. A scarf is not a stole, but there did used to be a convention of treating it as one at some services - in the Church of Ireland for example - so not wearing the hood with it on these occasions.
In fact I believe there used to be a hybrid monster called a 'Church of Ireland Stole'- from a distance it looked like a black scarf, but from closer the eagle-eyed could see cunningly disguised black embroidered crosses at either end...
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
My distinct recollection is that whenever I have shared the leading of a funeral with a Reader the lady in question wore a hood. But it's not worth dying in a ditch for, either way.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
But aren't readers always in choir dress? IE Isn't a surplice and scarf sans hood also choir dress?
Yes, but it is incorrect to wear a hood at Sacramental services. I'm sure someone more well informed than I am will be able to explain why that is
Not incorrect actually, and in fact required under the 'old' canons - but it is a common practice to omit the hood at Sacramental services as it is felt inappropriate to sport a mark of personal dignity during the Eucharist.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
But aren't readers always in choir dress? IE Isn't a surplice and scarf sans hood also choir dress?
Yes, but it is incorrect to wear a hood at Sacramental services. I'm sure someone more well informed than I am will be able to explain why that is
Absolute rot. The tippet is just a late-mediaeval way of wearing the hood which has been set in aspic by clerical tailors. The more interesting question is whether wearing both amounts to wearing two hoods or to wearing one hood in two forms, or one hood in two 'pieces'. That aside, Anglican choir dress as currently worn is surplice, tippet and hood. It is indeed wrongheaded for sacramental ministers to preside in choir dress, but clerics in quire are, obviously enough, vested in choir dress. You don't see non-celebrating priests wearing chasubles at Mass. Readers are never ministers of the sacrament (unless vested as straw subdeacons, in tunicle) and if they vest for Mass, do so in choir dress.
Posts: 307 | From: North London | Registered: May 2013
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:
Readers are never ministers of the sacrament (unless vested as straw subdeacons, in tunicle) and if they vest for Mass, do so in choir dress.
Tangent alert
I was at a service recently (in a cathedral no less) where a Reader was acting as deacon and wearing a tunicle (or was it a dalmatic?). Anyway, nothing unusual there. However, under her vestment she was not only wearing her blue scarf, she had it over her left shoulder like a deacon's stole ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:
Readers are never ministers of the sacrament (unless vested as straw subdeacons, in tunicle) and if they vest for Mass, do so in choir dress.
Tangent alert
I was at a service recently (in a cathedral no less) where a Reader was acting as deacon and wearing a tunicle (or was it a dalmatic?). Anyway, nothing unusual there. However, under her vestment she was not only wearing her blue scarf, she had it over her left shoulder like a deacon's stole
That plaintive wail you hear? That's the baby Jesus crying... Wrong on so many levels.
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Posts: 307 | From: North London | Registered: May 2013
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Simple question. Will whether the Reader taking the funeral is wearing or not wearing an academic hood make it easier or harder for the deceased to enter heaven?
Surely, as this is the Church of England, all present (including the deceased) are blessed by the officiant wearing all the appropriate garb? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
Surely the starting place for this discussion has to be "what do the canons of the C of E say?"
What's that? They don't say anything?? Then, the reader can feel free to wear hood or not as they wish. The opinion of the vicar is to be heard but not necessarily obeyed. (the opinion of the vicar in this case seems a little precious to me. So do what you want.)
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Saint Hedrin the Lesser-Known
Shipmate
# 11399
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Posted
I was under the impression that the hood, being festal, was omitted at funerals. Again, I concede that local custom will vary.
That said, I think Bachelors of Divinity from Oxford can skirt the issue as their hood is black.
Then again, I have not seen a Reader-led funeral in this corner of Anglicanism where the cassocks are in white drill due to the tropics.
Posts: 1833 | From: Manila, Philippines | Registered: May 2006
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
I've never heard of the hood being a festal garment.
ETA: I think the black BD hood is from Dublin, not Oxford.
[ 16. February 2014, 07:24: Message edited by: Spike ]
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
Mine was only Festal once - at my Graduation!
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Saint Hedrin the Lesser-Known
Shipmate
# 11399
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I've never heard of the hood being a festal garment.
ETA: I think the black BD hood is from Dublin, not Oxford.
Here's something from Walter's of Oxford as regards the all-black BDiv hood.
Also found this from Oxford regarding what form of academic dress is worn according to occasion. Most church services, including memorial services, require only the gown for bachelors, masters, and doctors. Whilst it is silent on the subject of whether officiants at such services will don their hoods, university congregants will generally be in their black gowns only, since they're in the pews. It was only from there that I inferred that hoods are probably not for funerals, with the same caveats about not having seen a reader-led funeral in Anglican circles here.
Posts: 1833 | From: Manila, Philippines | Registered: May 2006
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
Hoods are not festal. There is an historic, and now obsolete, distinction between various ways of wearing the hood, for festal or non festal occasions (i.e squared, folded, or flourished) but the hood itself is neither festal nor ferial. The idea that the BD hood is "allowed" because black is fallacious and wrong-headed, as is the ridiculous made-up Anglican practice one (thankfully only very-) occasionally finds of wearing less "showy" hoods during Lent.
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Posts: 307 | From: North London | Registered: May 2013
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
I always encouraged that when I was that Warden! My own Readers were especially fortunate, in that their Vicar and Warden were of one mind on the matter ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ 20. February 2014, 09:27: Message edited by: Oferyas ]
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Roselyn
Shipmate
# 17859
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Simple question. Will whether the Reader taking the funeral is wearing or not wearing an academic hood make it easier or harder for the deceased to enter heaven?
Surely funerals are for them as what is left, rather than them who has already gone??
[fixed code]
[ 23. February 2014, 08:37: Message edited by: seasick ]
Posts: 98 | From: gold coast gld australia | Registered: Oct 2013
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Roselyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Simple question. Will whether the Reader taking the funeral is wearing or not wearing an academic hood make it easier or harder for the deceased to enter heaven?
Surely funerals are for them as what is left, rather than them who has already gone??
Precisely the conversation that is going on on another thread on this board. For a Catholic, the main purpose of the funeral is to pray for the departed, and the purpose of comforting the bereaved is secondary.
[fixed code]
[ 23. February 2014, 08:39: Message edited by: seasick ]
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
quote:
Originally posted by Roselyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Simple question. Will whether the Reader taking the funeral is wearing or not wearing an academic hood make it easier or harder for the deceased to enter heaven?
Surely funerals are for them as what is left, rather than them who has already gone??
Precisely the conversation that is going on on another thread on this board. For a Catholic, the main purpose of the funeral is to pray for the departed, and the purpose of comforting the bereaved is secondary.
[fixed code]
- and for this Anglican that is true as well!
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
quote:
Originally posted by Roselyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Simple question. Will whether the Reader taking the funeral is wearing or not wearing an academic hood make it easier or harder for the deceased to enter heaven?
Surely funerals are for them as what is left, rather than them who has already gone??
Precisely the conversation that is going on on another thread on this board. For a Catholic, the main purpose of the funeral is to pray for the departed, and the purpose of comforting the bereaved is secondary.
[fixed code]
- and for this Anglican that is true as well!
And for this one! By "Catholic" I did mean Catholic-but-not-only-Roman-Catholic.
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
This is what the opening prayer in the CofE service says.
We have come here today
to remember before God our brother/sister N ;
to give thanks for his/her life;
to commend him/her to God our merciful redeemer and judge;
to commit his/her body to be buried/cremated,
and to comfort one another in our grief.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Scarfs - I'm entitled to wear a MA hood and I wish there were any occasions when I could do so.
However if I was leading a religious service other than in a university town with a similar congregation I would feel I was saying "Look I'm better educated and socially connected than you".
Obviously ministers should be educated but academic scarfs are better left off in most parishes I'd suggest.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
My Kings College London scarf wore out years ago, sadly, but I was asking about academic hoods. Have no fear, shipmates, I will defer to my Vicar's views.
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I said "academic scarfs". I meant "academic hoods". I'm no great advertisement for higher education.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I said "academic scarfs". I meant "academic hoods". I'm no great advertisement for higher education.
Though of course, the tippet (erroneously called 'preaching scarf' by some) is a form of hood. So logically, were one to leave off wearing the hood, one should leave off wearing the tippet also. The only reason they're all made of black silk is that that happens to be what most MA hoods were made of when the liturgical-music stopped in the 16thC...
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Posts: 307 | From: North London | Registered: May 2013
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
I am not entirely sure that the tippet (scarf) and hood are the same.
Until the mid to late 19thC, the clergy dressed in surplice and hood for liturgical services. It was customary to remove the surplice and wear the gown to preach. This might be either the MA gown (higher church - Wesley used it) or Geneva gown (lower church).
The hood was certainly worn with the surplice for sacramental services. The print in Pusey House of the Margaret Street Chapel (later, All Saints) shows all three ministers at the altar in surplice and hood. The removal of the hood for all sorts of pious and humble reasons, was a later affectation and has no basis in canon.
The scarf was rarely worn. It was a sign of dignity conferred on dignitaries such as cathedral canons, chaplains to noblemen, royal chaplains. In more protestant circles, the Countess of Huntingdon awarded scarves to 'her' clergy who trained at Trevecca by right of her being a noblewoman. They were, at a slight stretch of the rules, her chaplains.
The use of the scarf by Readers is a development of the universal use of the black scarf by the clergy in all three Holy Orders from the middle of the 19thC, when I understand it was granted to all the clergy of the diocese of London. Other dioceses followed quite quickly. It is now part of choir dress, together with the surplice and hood.
Until the liturgical revival generated by the Oxford Movement began to be felt, the use of the cassock had largely died out - apart from DDs and bishops, deans and archdeacons, who wore a shortened form like an apron. The surplice was put on over the day dress of the clergy. It was correctly a long garment and came almost to the ground.
It is entirely appropriate for all Readers officiating at services to wear choir dress, and this includes the hood. It is entirely appropriate for clergy who wish to do so, to wear choir dress at any service; this would include the hood.
Pragmatism and good manners might lead a Reader to omit the hood if his/her vicar did so or preferred it that way. Technically (for all that's worth) it is incorrect to do so. Local custom prevails, rightly or wrongly. Again, I would advise good manners and sensitivity to what the incumbent might wish.
Funerals are in any case non sacramental services (unless a requiem mass). The appropriate dress would be...choir dress.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
Am I alone in thinking that there's something wrong in wearing academic dress in the context of a church service?
I mean, foolishness to the Greeks and all that...?
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
Yes.
Learning has its place.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
'Wrong' isn't a word I would use.
In outlining what constitutes choir dress, I am referring to the canons - as devised in 1603, and based on earlier models, revised by Archbishop Fisher and subsequently.
One might say that the use of the gown is 'wrong' in a church service as it descends from (amongst other things) the philosophers' cloak; also 'bands' as these denote learning and are shared by the legal profession; perhaps 'scarf' as this is a badge of dignity; maybe the 'stole' as this has sacerdotal significance; maybe the alb and surplice as these might be seen to set apart the officiant from the congregation.
Perhaps shirts made in Jermyn Street and worn by those presiding in Holy Trinity, Brompton, because these might denote weath (and like learing 'has its place'?); Nicky Gumbel's cashmere sweaters as they are hardly a sign of the poverty that is really felt in inner cities and the countryside.
That leaves us perhaps with the 'right' dress for worship: a fiherman's smock and carrying a bloater.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Our previous curate had two PhDs but never wore her hood so I left off my BA hood when co-conducting a service with her.
Really? I've a BA and an MA and wear them all the time.
BA = Born Again; MA = Marvellously Altered
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
haha very good.
And 'leaving off' can be as much of an academic statement as putting it all on. Especially if the designation 'Dr' is known - and maybe appears on a church notice board.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
come to think of it, why would someone submit two PhDs? Even if in different disciplines it's a little like qualifying as a GP twice.
Wouldn't it be better after having achieved this recognition of equality by the academic community to write a few books?
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
come to think of it, why would someone submit two PhDs? Even if in different disciplines it's a little like qualifying as a GP twice. ...
I met a German who had two doctorates and was customarily known as Herr Doktor Doktor.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
Yes, they do it. Very strange.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
haha very good.
And 'leaving off' can be as much of an academic statement as putting it all on. Especially if the designation 'Dr' is known - and maybe appears on a church notice board.
Well it was - at the time, we had 3 PhD clergy - but then again, we are the university chaplaincy church so there are lots of doctors flying around.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I have worn a hood (BA, 3rd class) on occasions, but I find it hard to justify it as part of clerical vesture. The same applies to lay ministers. The point of liturgical vesture ('choir dress' as much as eucharistic vestments) is surely to indicate that the minister is in a representative role and not drawing attention to his/her personality, qualifications, or any other distinctive features. I suppose in an academic context hoods serve as a kind of uniform, but in an ordinary parish church they do the opposite. Even when, as in the last two parishes I have served, at least half of the congregation are graduates, including several PhDs.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
haha very good.
And 'leaving off' can be as much of an academic statement as putting it all on. Especially if the designation 'Dr' is known - and maybe appears on a church notice board.
Well it was - at the time, we had 3 PhD clergy - but then again, we are the university chaplaincy church so there are lots of doctors flying around.
They might be better off landing and keeping their feet on the ground.
Having any degree or wearing special clothes doesn't make you into the person you claim to be.
I've a number of academic/practical qualifications. Most people in my church have no idea: I don't tell because I don't need to. A PhD doesn't cut it where I am - and may be a barrier.
[ 04. March 2014, 07:23: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
come to think of it, why would someone submit two PhDs? Even if in different disciplines it's a little like qualifying as a GP twice.
Wouldn't it be better after having achieved this recognition of equality by the academic community to write a few books?
I have two friends who are double-doctors. In one case, she was broadening her work into a different area and felt that the second doctorate increased chances of: a) being listened to, and b) employment. In the other, his first doctorate was in Slovak and, while he felt that Bratislava was as good as (say) Lethbridge, hiring committees were... provincial, and it gave him a chance to update his work with recent western research. In neither case are they likely to be found in choir dress although the latter is a perpetual deacon of the local RCs.
In my CoI student days, I often saw choristers and readers in academic hoods-- well, often enough that nobody was surprised.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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