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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: MW2767: St Clement of Rome, Sun City
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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
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Posted
The worshipper described the priest's "sockless sandals" as "hellish".
In the hot country where I come from, sockless sandals are formal wear! (And in fact what most priests wear - the rest wear bare feet inside the church and sandals or flip-flops outside .)
And IMHO, sandals with socks are an abomination - except maybe for a tropical person stranded in a cold country.
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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Saw some at church yesterday (socks under sandals) and refrained mightily from commenting. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Seriously though, if you can't wear sandals over bare feet to church, we'll have to leave Jesus and the Twelve at home.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
In Australia to wear socks with sandals is the dorkiest fashion statement EVER. Only English people would do it and we laugh heartily at them.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
"Sockless sandals" was obviously allowed, or the bishop or ordinary would intervene. Presumably, the priest-celebrant was incardinated to the local diocese, rather than to a religious order.
The ecclesiastical name for barefoot or only sandalled is Discalced. Had the celebrant been female in an Episcopal Anglican church, I wonder if the MWer would have felt the same way about going barefoot in open sandals.
I ask, what is the difference between a barefoot woman and a barefoot man?
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Seriously though, if you can't wear sandals over bare feet to church, we'll have to leave Jesus and the Twelve at home.
Acting in persona Christi doesn't mean you have to dress like Jesus did, or indeed mimic his every action!
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
One isn't meant to be physically comfortable at the altar. One wears a cassock and all the appropriate vestments over that, and one wears black shoes and black socks. The only concessions I can see involve the clothing one wears under the cassock.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Jon in the Nati
Shipmate
# 15849
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Posted
quote:
One wears a cassock and all the appropriate vestments over that, and one wears black shoes and black socks.
One does, unless one is a monastic in an order and climate in which the wearing of sandals is usual. Franciscans often celebrate mass wearing the sandals which are part of their habit.
Of course, there is no particular reason to think that is the case in Sun City; I looked at their website, and if the priest is a religious, he doesn't identify himself as such.
[ 30. September 2014, 14:05: Message edited by: Jon in the Nati ]
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Homer: Aww, this isn't about Jesus, is it?
Lovejoy: All things are about Jesus, Homer. Except this.
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I ask, what is the difference between a barefoot woman and a barefoot man?
If you need to ask, my dear boy, then Miss Amanda is afraid she can't help you. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
I took the remark about sandals at the end of the report as a joke. As has been pointed out, while it is clearly not necessary to conform with Our Lord's footwear choices, it must surely be permissible.
More intriguing to me is the claim that they pray Matins are Daily Mass. Given that the (OF) Roman Liturgy of the Hours knows no such service, I wonder what is meant. Do they pray a monastic office? Or is it MP / Lauds from the LotH (which I've encountered in plenty of parishes), or Office of Readings (which I never have and would be interested to see).
[ 30. September 2014, 14:30: Message edited by: Hart ]
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
May Our Lord And His Blessed Mother forgive him, but my fellow-Reader (a man who prides himself on being Far More Spiritual Than Everyone Else) always wears sandals with socks! A couple of Sundays ago, he even sported fluorescent ORANGE socks with a green dalmatic, whilst acting as liturgical deacon...... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
O I dunno - sandals are OK (especially if it's very hot, or you have problems with wearing shoes), but surely, if you're in the sanctuary, you could at least avoid drawing attention....!!
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I ask, what is the difference between a barefoot woman and a barefoot man?
If you need to ask, my dear boy, then Miss Amanda is afraid she can't help you.
Probably a rhetorical question!
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jon in the Nati:
quote:
One wears a cassock and all the appropriate vestments over that, and one wears black shoes and black socks.
One does, unless one is a monastic in an order and climate in which the wearing of sandals is usual. Franciscans often celebrate mass wearing the sandals which are part of their habit.
Of course, there is no particular reason to think that is the case in Sun City; I looked at their website, and if the priest is a religious, he doesn't identify himself as such.
It's also difficult to think that every church in AZ doesn't have some sort of air conditioning. It is absolutely ubiquitous in the SW USA, including churches. What one tends to do in that part of the country is flit from one air-conditioned refuge to another. The worst part of life is driving a car on a series of errands, thus never allowing the car's aircon to cool the inside down enough for comfort, whilst it can get very hot inside the vehicle when you run in somewhere to take care of 10 minutes worth of errand fulfillment. I used to live in Texas: I'm personally acquainted with these things.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop: quote:
I ask, what is the difference between a barefoot woman and a barefoot man?
Toenail varnish.
In the correct liturgical colour, of course.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
I took the remark about sandals at the end of the report as a joke. As has been pointed out, while it is clearly not necessary to conform with Our Lord's footwear choices, it must surely be permissible.
Why must it be permissible? A priest is not an actor, pretending to be Jesus. You wouldn't expect a priest to come to the altar without washing for weeks, yet doubtless Jesus would have been rather smelly a lot of the time.
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Yes, just about every church in the Phoenix area is air conditioned. But many of them keep the thermostats high for financial and environmental reasons. We're a casual part of the world, and going without socks or stockings is the norm. (I notice that my dear friend Miss Amanda didn't even notice this until the recessional.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop: quote:
I ask, what is the difference between a barefoot woman and a barefoot man?
Toenail varnish.
So if be-sandaled men wear nail polish - in the right liturgical colours - that would be OK?
In other news, socks with sandals have been very high trend high fashion for a season or so now. On women (And shoes without socks for men.) No, me neither. Fashion is crazy.
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Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men
organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen
Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?
Posts: 2022 | From: the smallest town in England | Registered: Sep 2003
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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop: quote:
I ask, what is the difference between a barefoot woman and a barefoot man?
Toenail varnish.
So if be-sandaled men wear nail polish - in the right liturgical colours - that would be OK?
In other news, socks with sandals have been very high trend high fashion for a season or so now. On women (And shoes without socks for men.) No, me neither. Fashion is crazy.
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Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men
organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen
Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?
Posts: 2022 | From: the smallest town in England | Registered: Sep 2003
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Yangtze: quote:
So if be-sandaled men wear nail polish - in the right liturgical colours - that would be OK?
Why, of course! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I'm a priest and I wear footwear I'm comfortable in. Not usually sandals but not always (or often) black Oxfords either. I agree that black shoes with a black cassock is an appropriate look, but usually I wear an alb so colour of shoes is less crucial.
I can't say it matters a great deal. I can criticise other priests and other people for their fashion sense but that is sheer personal prejudice whichever way it goes.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
To respond to several points raised upthread:
I called it matins; they called it "Liturgy of the Hours: Morning Prayer" in the bulletin. Tomayto, tomahto.
The church was comfortably air-conditioned.
Socks with sandals are quite the fashion trend in many circles in the USA.
I really didn't notice the priest's feet until the recessional. I was busy writing during the processional, and his feet were not visible behind the altar.
Priests can wear whatever they please on their feet if they don't mind wading through Baby Jesus' and his Blessed Mother's tears.
At any rate, the remark about the sandals was meant to be tongue-in-cheek -- or should I say toe-in-sock?
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
My post-grad neuropsych professor - a truly brilliant young man - in the mid-1970s wore socks with sandals as part of his habitual look. It was 1976 hipster basically, and an alternative to middle age tweed jacket academic. Maybe contemporary hipsters are reviving the style?
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194
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Posted
Australia.
Very few churches have any air-con. Maybe a ceiling fan or two?
My church put in air-con last year... All year-round at that... Because at a summer funeral that year, inside the church was 39.c, whilst outside, at the cemetery, it was only 35.c
Here no-one seems to go what shoes you wear, as long as you don't faint from heat exhaustion.
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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...
Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
I can't remember when I was in a church here that had air-conditioning. Perhaps somewhere like Hillsong has it, but I can't speak from experience.
Upthread, Miss Amanda raises some questions about technical RC rules, which I shan't debate. But I can recall a time when I was doing some work in a country city, well west of the Dividing Range. Madame came with me for a break. In February, this city was hot, so hot that even in the evening the temp was usually in the high 30s. Come Ash Wednesday, we went to the 7 pm Eucharist and Ashing. The church was very hot, probably closer to 40 than 35. Before the service, the priest came out and apologised that he would not be wearing a chasuble - they were all hot, he said, the lenten purple particularly so. His decision was very understandable. I don't know what he was wearing underneath, but his legs were bare and he simply wore sandals. It looked so timeless, not necessarily 20th century outback Oz, but equally valid in 5th century Antioch, or Ephesus.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
... A couple of Sundays ago, he even sported fluorescent ORANGE socks with a green dalmatic, whilst acting as liturgical deacon......
Sounds like a walking packet of tic tacs
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Socks with sandals are just plain bad, even if worn by would-be-trendy academics. Just plain bad.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Yes and no.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I remain puzzled by this. I know women don't like to see us wearing socks with sandals, but our feet are just knobbly and ugly. So why? Or is the objection just a silly fad?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
We don't cover our hands: why should we cover our feet?
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Nor do we cover the orifices by which extraneous matter enters the body, so why should we cover those by which it exits?
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Nor do we cover the orifices by which extraneous matter enters the body, so why should we cover those by which it exits?
Here you go
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Interesting link, but Jesus always went about fully wrapped in robes, if you believe the artwork. Although he did wear sandals (albeit without socks).
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
He did go around robed: and his eyes were blue and his beard was blond, if you believe the artwork (and if you believe some of the artwork he was crucified in eucharistic vestments, er...)
How do we know he didn't wear socks with sandals, BTW? Romans did in Britain and it can I believe get cold in Palestine in winter.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Interesting link, but Jesus always went about fully wrapped in robes, if you believe the artwork. Although he did wear sandals (albeit without socks).
Not according to the mural on the front of the book we used for our sacramental initiation class he didn't.
[ 03. October 2014, 17:30: Message edited by: Hart ]
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
In Australia to wear socks with sandals is the dorkiest fashion statement EVER. Only English people would do it and we laugh heartily at them.
Yeah, replace, " Australian" with " Californian" . If it's hot enough to wear sandals, ir's too hot to wear socks.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
If he does then we're having a "What Not to Wear" episode in heaven...
He doesn't.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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crunt
Shipmate
# 1321
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Posted
Socks and sandals on men are mock-worthy because a lot of the pics show badly dressed guys with inappropriately matched socks, sandals and shorts. I live in the tropics, but I am required to wear long pants, sleeves and a tie (with shoes and socks) at work. When I'm not working I would prefer to wear shorts, but I can't find any non-beach or sports type shorts that I either like, or fit well enough. The style these days for men's dress shorts (dress shorts! Is there such a thing?) tends towards a slimmer, shorter cut, and I don't like it as it's too boyish for me. So, I tend to wear long, light linen or cotton pants instead, especially when I'm in the town or city.
My point is, though, that while short shorts and sandals with white sports socks - or even business socks - is a daft look in most people's eyes, long pants with sandals and similarly coloured socks is more comfortable, cooler and also more practical than traditional shoes and socks. Conversely, it is surprising how uninhibited some people are about displaying horribly unkempt feet while wearing open sandals with no socks. I think it is widely accepted among the PC brigade (so called, and of which I am one) that is bad manners to tell people what they should and shouldn't wear in order to be attractive to others, so I will refrain from telling people with nasty feet to cover up; it's just odd that people feel at liberty to tell men not to wear socks and sandals because it is unattractive to women (and other men). Saying that, my usual outdoor dress outside work involves long pants, sandals and no socks.
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QUIZ: Bible
QUIZ: world religions
LTL Discussion
languagespider.com
Posts: 269 | From: Up country in the middle of Malaysia | Registered: Sep 2001
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
I also don't like to se women presiding in bare feet and sandals ( with or without nail polish). Perhaps its my college training but I'm black shoes all the way with robes!
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jante:
Perhaps its my college training but I'm black shoes all the way with robes!
There's a special corner reserved for you in heaven.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
This
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by crunt:
...men's dress shorts (dress shorts! Is there such a thing?) ...
Shorts can be Tat or Rig or Scunge, but not Robes.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
I don't know about that.
quote:
Members wore a white alb-like garment that extended only to the knees.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
One isn't meant to be physically comfortable at the altar. One wears a cassock and all the appropriate vestments over that, and one wears black shoes and black socks. The only concessions I can see involve the clothing one wears under the cassock.
Mate - you haven't presided in Darwin. You'd have drowned in sweat before the Gospel.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by crunt:
The style these days for men's dress shorts (dress shorts! Is there such a thing?)
There is in Bermuda.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
And you'll note the black socks. Pity the camera didn't pan down to their feet.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
All I can think is " tan line"
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
And you'll note the black socks. Pity the camera didn't pan down to their feet.
But they probably were wearing shoes, not sandals.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Hooker's Trick
Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I ask, what is the difference between a barefoot woman and a barefoot man?
Both equally shocking whilst waiting at the Holy Table. A lady in such circumstances would, of course, wear black court shoes.
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001
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