Ship of Fools: The Liberal Catholic Church

Thread: The Liberal Catholic Church Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by croinua (# 18252) on :

I recently finished reading "Bishops at Large" by Peter F. Anson (ISBN 09771461-8-9) and was absolutely fascinated by Bishop Arnold Harris Mathew and the Liberal Catholic Church and how his linage has trickled through to a lot of the independent Churches that continue to exist with Episcopi Vagante bishops such as the Old Roman Catholic Church in Europe and the Liberal Catholic Church International.
I was wondering, has anybody ever seen a copy of the so-called "Mathew Liturgy" or would anybody know where I would be able to obtain a copy?
What are the distinctives? Is it influenced in any way by Theosophy?

Posted by Jon in the Nati (# 15849) on :

quote:
Is it influenced in any way by Theosophy?

I don't know that the liturgy itself is influenced by Theosophy, but I'd assume it is since the various LCC splinter groups are all Theosophical in orientation, to one degree or another.

I'd be really interested to see it, though. There used to be a LCC parish (with an actual building!) near my home some years ago. I never got around to actually going, which I somewhat regret.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

"The Matthew" is the more trad. of their two liturgies and is a mish mash of the old (Extraordinary) Roman Rite, the old C of E English Missal and favorite prayers from some of their adherents.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

This is the Matthew.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

There's an LCC parish in Berkeley called St Raphael's. They used to have a building on the shady/dingy border of Oakland and Berkeley, but they're no longer there--though apparently the parish still exists, according to their website. Probably meeting in someone's home these days.

I've never been, mostly by virtue of having other things to take care of on Sunday mornings.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

There also used to be a parish in Putney. Don't know whether it's still there: and I think an LCC Bishop (without much of a flock) in Llandudno or Colwyn Bay.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

The church in Putney was still there when I last drove past about a year ago. I've often wondered what goes on in there.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

And I've just looked them up on Google and they're still there. I really must go along some time to see what it's like.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

There's one in Liverpool but I don't know if the congregation is much bigger than the priest and his wife.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

There are very few here. I only know of one in Sydney - perhaps in the State - and curiously that's 3 suburbs down the line from where we live, in what looks like an adapted house, and immediately behind what is a moderately A-C church. When last seen, it looked as if the Parish working bee was overdue.

Posted by northender (# 9374) on :

Abp. Mathew's "Old Catholic Missal and Ritual", published in 1909 was the Roman missal and ritual of the day with a few changes, such as prayers for "N.. our Patriarch" rather than referring to him as "our Pope", and Festival of the Conception of Our Lady. It should be available in full on the internet.

On the establishment of the Liberal Catholic Church, a new Liturgy was provided, in 1916 as individual service books, then in two volumes, and from 1919 in one volume. Various groups have used or adapted this for their own purposes, and I cannot comment on the accuracy of any of their services found on the internet. As far as I know, the current 1983 Edition as authorised by the original LCC, is not on the web.

I am the humble author of An Annotated Liturgy, in three computer files, containing all the services of The Liturgy, as well as a Devotional Commentary on The Eucharist. As the LCC leaves its members freedom of interpretation of the Scriptures, Creeds and Liturgy, these works are in no way official, but are recommended as study guides to the Liturgy for those doing the Liberal Catholic Institute of Studies course. Not all Liberal Catholics are Theosophists, I am not.

Any serious students of Liturgy are welcome to contact me for any of the above files, on The Sacraments, The Collects, and Other Services.
northend1552@bigpond.com

The Devotional Commentary is a personal rather than academic paper.

As one of the two active priests at St Francis Church, Gordon, on Sydney's north side, I apologise if the grounds did not come up to standard. Perhaps if the shopkeepers on Pacific Highway did not use us as a dumping ground, things would look better. The building was originally a Brethren Hall which we bought in the mid Seventies and we moved there from the small Chatswood church.

Pictures can be seen on the Australian Province website:
www.liberalcatholicchurch.org.au
as well as links to our magazine.

Fr. Laurence

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

Wait, this is its own denomination? (I thought this thread was about the more liberal/progressive wing of the RCC...)

[ 22. October 2014, 04:05: Message edited by: ChastMastr ]

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

(Looks it up, and now understands more.)

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Does the RCC actually have a liberal/progressive wing....??

OK......I'll get me coat.......

Ian J.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

There's a branch of the Liberal Catholic Church not far from where I live. It's not a part of the RCC.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

The Liberal Catholic Church International has a diocese in Arizona, with a parish in Casa Grande (southeast of Phoenix) and a mission in Tuscon.

Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :

In the early 1970s I was briefly acquainted with the Old Catholic Church in England (not in communion with the See of Utrecht). At that time, they had churches in Battersea and Sutton in Greater London and the Bishops were +Francis Everard Glenn and +R. John Luker. Yes, they were episcopi vagantes.

I doubt if either of these said bishops is still around and may no longer be alive and I presume that their churches have long since closed down. If rumour is to be believed, these two bishops eventually mutually excommunicated each other.

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Does the RCC actually have a liberal/progressive wing....??

Actually, yes! Not so much an organized wing but definitely there are many RCs who believe in and hope for various kinds of changes within, or approaches to things within, the RCC.

Posted by Anesti (# 18259) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Does the RCC actually have a liberal/progressive wing....??

OK......I'll get me coat.......

Ian J.

Have you ever heard of Liberation Theology?

That makes most liberals look like New Labour or the Democratic Party of today!

The RCC includes everything from hardcore Traditionalists to "Cafeteria Catholics" (don't like the term but there you go.

Just to reiterate: the LCC is not part of the RCC.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

When I studied Theology for a diploma twenty years ago, nearly all the feminist theologians were RCs, not that the then pope would have cared for them.

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