Ship of Fools: Don't want to be groped? Get beaten up instead.

Thread: Don't want to be groped? Get beaten up instead. Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

Woman beaten up at Notting Hill carnival

Apparently, telling a stranger not to grope your arse is asking for a beating.

Hell is too good for the cretin, or for anyone else who thinks this is acceptable.

This has made me so angry.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

Of course we don't have a rape culture in this country.

I think I do understand some of the reasons that men do this sort of thing. That is not to justify it - he deserves jail, scumbag.

And it is really her fault for having an arse. She should have had it removed if she didn't want it groped.

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
And it is really her fault for having an arse. She should have had it removed if she didn't want it groped.

There is an operation to remove arses?

DONATIONS PLEASE, DONATIONS PLEASE! All cheques made payable to the "Save Schrodinger's Cat appeal." He won't survive much longer attached to so much arse.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Sadly.....a member of our congregation (who, I must say, has been convicted of offences against young women - adults, not children - and who is now on the Sex Offenders Register), today commiserated with me in our local community centre café, that I had not noticed that a young woman in charge of a group of Down's Syndrome adults had had to brush against me with her 'nice soft bum' (his words) as she placed orders at the café counter.

Who is at fault? Me, for not noticing an attractive young lady, or him, for pointing it out?

Ian J.

Posted by Invictus_88 (# 15352) on :

The article says nothing about the man involved, which is unusual. There would usually be a line or two about his being due to appear in court. Surely he didn't get away? Such a crowded area, you'd expect the culprit to be known.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

He did get away but the Met are going through the CCTV footage from the carnival.

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Sadly.....a member of our congregation (who, I must say, has been convicted of offences against young women - adults, not children - and who is now on the Sex Offenders Register), today commiserated with me in our local community centre café, that I had not noticed that a young woman in charge of a group of Down's Syndrome adults had had to brush against me with her 'nice soft bum' (his words) as she placed orders at the café counter.

Who is at fault? Me, for not noticing an attractive young lady, or him, for pointing it out?

Ian J.

In my view, he should be called up short for even saying this. Was he thinking something offending-related behind or in addition to his inappropriate comment? We don't know, but because of past behaviour and thus current risk, it is absolutely not okay for him to say it. I would tend to forgive you for not saying anything, because it is startling to have such comments made and to be ready to say something right then. But he should be hauled up short and made to feel uncomfortable about his comment and that it was not okay.

Posted by deano (# 12063) on :

I don't understand the phrase "rape culture".

I do understand a sex offender and misogynist who needs locking up though.

Let's focus on catching and punishing the twat who did this and less on the generalisation and stereotyping eh? 99.999% of men in the UK wouldn't do anything like this.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by deano:
99.999% of men in the UK wouldn't do anything like this.

#NotAllMen

[Roll Eyes]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

Don't worry deano, I'm sure someone who knows the terminology and the numbers will be along to enlighten you very soon.

Posted by deano (# 12063) on :

Righty-oh. Ta.

Posted by saysay (# 6645) on :

So, wait.

She was at a carnival. In a crowd. With presumably any number of men.

She told someone to stop grabbing her ass. When he did it again she shoved him away.

He got angry and tried to punch her.

I'm with you so far. I can even understand how he might have gotten as far as punching her without anyone being able to step in.

But he punched her hard enough to leave her face looking like that.

And the men in the crowd didn't start beating him up or at least restrain him until the cops got there?

Your culture really is different.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Have you ever been to a Carnival? It's noisy, crowded, people are dancing, singing, everyone's looking at the parade. In all that din and jostling, do you suppose it's easy to spot a particular interaction between two people? Even when it turns into an assault there is an interval of shock and confusion while people process what is happening. During which I do not suppose the perpetrator stood around waiting.

See that horse you're on? It's too high for you.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

Additionally to what Firenze said, I'd have thought that most of the people who did notice it happening would probably have been focusing on whether she was alright, rather than attempting to apprehend the thug.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

Not to mention that it all probably happened quickly - maybe a couple of minutes at the most.

Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Sadly.....a member of our congregation (who, I must say, has been convicted of offences against young women - adults, not children - and who is now on the Sex Offenders Register), today commiserated with me in our local community centre café, that I had not noticed that a young woman in charge of a group of Down's Syndrome adults had had to brush against me with her 'nice soft bum' (his words) as she placed orders at the café counter.

Who is at fault? Me, for not noticing an attractive young lady, or him, for pointing it out?

Ian J.
In my view, he should be called up short for even saying this. Was he thinking something offending-related behind or in addition to his inappropriate comment? We don't know, but because of past behaviour and thus current risk, it is absolutely not okay for him to say it. I would tend to forgive you for not saying anything, because it is startling to have such comments made and to be ready to say something right then. But he should be hauled up short and made to feel uncomfortable about his comment and that it was not okay.

Yep: anything else reinforces the whole harassment-is-OK/ rape culture (which does exist, Deano).

Posted by deano (# 12063) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Yep: anything else reinforces the whole harassment-is-OK/ rape culture (which does exist, Deano).

Then please explain what it is, because so far nobody has. Which leads me to suspect it is bollocks.

But I'm willing to be persuaded.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

Examples of rape culture

There ya go.....

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Have you ever been to a Carnival? It's noisy, crowded, people are dancing, singing, everyone's looking at the parade. In all that din and jostling, do you suppose it's easy to spot a particular interaction between two people? Even when it turns into an assault there is an interval of shock and confusion while people process what is happening. During which I do not suppose the perpetrator stood around waiting.

See that horse you're on? It's too high for you.

And by the way, how do we know that noone tried to intervene? The article just never told that part of the story.

For that matter, how do we know that Bishop's Finger didn't respond to his creepy friend? Although I. for one wouldn't fault him for being too thunderstruck to form a response. We all wish we had the perfect comeback the next day.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

I was indeed somewhat discombobulated by my creepy companion......it took a few seconds for what he said to register, by which time the moment for a quick riposte was gone. But it won't happen again.

Ian J.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Have you ever been to a Carnival? It's noisy, crowded, people are dancing, singing, everyone's looking at the parade. In all that din and jostling, do you suppose it's easy to spot a particular interaction between two people? Even when it turns into an assault there is an interval of shock and confusion while people process what is happening. During which I do not suppose the perpetrator stood around waiting.

See that horse you're on? It's too high for you.

I used to go to that carnival every year, and in places, the crowd is so dense, a couple could undress and make-a the dupree, and nobody would notice. That's why it used to be a pickpocket's dream, until everybody realized it, and stopped taking wallets and so on. So saying people in the crowd should have done X is farcical, and just shows lack of local knowledge.

Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :

You're looking at about 60000 people or thereabouts in a tiny section of London Zone 1 - they even set up specific flows that make certain Tube stations entry-only or exit-only.

Basically - if you're not going to NHC - you stay the hell away... cos it's a nightmare otherwise.

We're talking small roads with terraced buildings as well.... VERY densely packed..

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

If the sun shines, you're talking a million people over a week-end.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

These photos are mainly of partly clothed dancers, I wonder why, but if you scroll down, you will get to some street scenes, showing the complete jam that you get, in fact, it can get really unpleasant.

http://tinyurl.com/mkapawj

Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
These photos are mainly of partly clothed dancers, I wonder why, but if you scroll down, you will get to some street scenes, showing the complete jam that you get, in fact, it can get really unpleasant.

http://tinyurl.com/mkapawj

Notting Hill was the original Afro-Caribbean and Jamaican enclave when the Windrush landed in the 50s. So it was jamaican Carnival culture...

Calypso etc..

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
a couple could undress and make-a the dupree,

Do they have to be cousins?

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by saysay:

Your culture really is different.

It's repressed .

Which is why your culture ,( US ?), can sometimes feel like a blast of fresh cool air to the average Brit.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:

quote:
Originally posted by saysay:

Your culture really is different.
It's repressed .

Which is why your culture ,( US ?), can sometimes feel like a blast of fresh cool air to the average Brit.

That's a personal view: I'd disagree on both counts. UK culture is no longer repressed. Infact we have begun to over emotionalise our response to certain things to the point of near emotional incontinence. You can track it back to the death of one Diana Windsor

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Fair enough EM .

If the Queen of Hearts has so made the British-stiff upper-lip a thing of the past, maybe it's time we started thinking like US culture.

AIUI it is sensible in some parts of America to carry 'mugging money'. That is, in the event of being confronted by a mugger, you hand over a sum ,(£20 or £30) , in the hope that you escape without serious injury or worse.
Re. groping incident my advice to anyone in that situation would be to not remonstrate with the gropper but simply move right away. In a tightly crowded setting you're unlikely to be pursued.

And before I get rotten tomatoes thrown at me for comparing a sexual assault to being robbed of money, let me just say I would much rather this moron could been tasered in the balls before delivering his, what could quite easily have been fatal, punch.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Fair enough EM .

If the Queen of Hearts has so made the British-stiff upper-lip a thing of the past, maybe it's time we started thinking like US culture.

Maybe it's time we invited the US to think like us.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
1. AIUI it is sensible in some parts of America to carry 'mugging money'. That is, in the event of being confronted by a mugger, you hand over a sum ,(£20 or £30) , in the hope that you escape without serious injury or worse.

2. Re. groping incident my advice to anyone in that situation would be to not remonstrate with the gropper but simply move right away. In a tightly crowded setting you're unlikely to be pursued.

No way. Always but always fight back. You have the advantage that the mugger assumes you will just give in. Get close in and it reduces their ability to swing and harm you.

As regards the roping well, it happened to my teenage daughter in Greece. She turned round got the guy by the throat and "threatened to punch his lights out". He ran off at speed. She was 13 at the time.

2.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Well yeah , like meet in the middle sort of thing.

With the hope that all their guns sink to the bottom of the Atlantic while we're about it.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

<apologies for the X posting>

Well done to your 13 yr old daughter .

Don't get me wrong I've no wish to deter the have-a-go-hero , just because I doubt if I'd be one in an adverse situation.

There is that thing though of being a dead hero as opposed to an alive coward.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
quetzalcoatl: If the sun shines, you're talking a million people over a week-end.

A leasurely small-group gathering, compared to Carnival in Brazil.

quote:
rolyn: AIUI it is sensible in some parts of America to carry 'mugging money'. That is, in the event of being confronted by a mugger, you hand over a sum ,(£20 or £30) , in the hope that you escape without serious injury or worse.

I do this in Brazil too.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Well yeah , like meet in the middle sort of thing.

Certainly not. That's far too conciliatory.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

My son was mugged about 5 times, when he was a teen, always for his phone, and he very wisely handed it over each time. Too many knives about in London.

Posted by Horatio Harumph (# 10855) on :

on Rape Culture - this is quite lengthy but good

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/The-culture-of-rape-Myths-misconceptions-and-reality-273285621.html?device=mobile

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
ExclamationMark: As regards the roping well, it happened to my teenage daughter in Greece. She turned round got the guy by the throat and "threatened to punch his lights out". He ran off at speed. She was 13 at the time.

If this were in Brazil, she would be dead.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
That's a personal view: I'd disagree on both counts. UK culture is no longer repressed.

Um, I disagree. It might be accurate to say less repressed, but no longer repressed? I disagree.
And it is important to remember that neither the UK not the US are mono-cultural, even if recent immigrants are factored out. And there is still a difference, both sides of the pond, in the repression level across the class divides.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Horatio Harumph:
on Rape Culture - this is quite lengthy but good

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/The-culture-of-rape-Myths-misconceptions-and-reality-273285621.html?device=mobile

Whilst I agree with most of that article, I take issue with the line:

quote:
"There have been good studies going back more than a decade that suggest while false reports happen, the number is between two per cent and eight per cent — and eight per cent is generous. It’s five per cent at most. It’s not a significant problem."

(emphasis mine).

I agree that it's not statistically significant, but its certainly a significant problem for people who are falsley accused, and it's also a significant problem for people whose reports are not believed because of the "not significant" number of false reports.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Whilst I agree with most of that article, I take issue with the line:

quote:
"There have been good studies going back more than a decade that suggest while false reports happen, the number is between two per cent and eight per cent — and eight per cent is generous. It’s five per cent at most. It’s not a significant problem."
(emphasis mine).

I agree that it's not statistically significant, but its certainly a significant problem for people who are falsley accused, and it's also a significant problem for people whose reports are not believed because of the "not significant" number of false reports.

IIRC 5% is very close to the conviction rate for rape. That's 90+% of rape victimes getting no justice.

[ 02. September 2014, 07:41: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
IIRC 5% is very close to the conviction rate for rape. That's 90+% of rape victimes getting no justice.

Which I agree is completely unacceptable.

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
IIRC 5% is very close to the conviction rate for rape. That's 90+% of rape victimes getting no justice.
Which I agree is completely unacceptable.

Oh Dear what awful logic, shame on you.

To be clear; rape convictions are too weak, not enough women come forward in the first place and it is a blight on our society.

However some of the 90% taken to court and not convicted were therefore found innocent. Some for perfectly lawful reasons. I know it's Hell but you just make yourself look stupid writing stuff like that.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:
ExclamationMark: As regards the roping well, it happened to my teenage daughter in Greece. She turned round got the guy by the throat and "threatened to punch his lights out". He ran off at speed. She was 13 at the time.
If this were in Brazil, she would be dead.

Yeah but it's not. In the UK and Europe most gropers are the equivalent of bullies who fold if you fight back. In those circumstances always do what others least expect and you wrest the initiative back.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I think that's nonsense. Telling young girls to always fight back is insane. Never mind Brazil, there are parts of London where fighting back could land you in hospital - or worse.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:

quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
IIRC 5% is very close to the conviction rate for rape. That's 90+% of rape victimes getting no justice.
Which I agree is completely unacceptable.
Oh Dear what awful logic, shame on you.

To be clear; rape convictions are too weak, not enough women come forward in the first place and it is a blight on our society.

However some of the 90% taken to court and not convicted were therefore found innocent. Some for perfectly lawful reasons. I know it's Hell but you just make yourself look stupid writing stuff like that.

Some of those 90% were found to be innocent, that is true. However, I find it hard to believe that +/- 95% of all people accused of rape are innocent.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:
ExclamationMark: As regards the roping well, it happened to my teenage daughter in Greece. She turned round got the guy by the throat and "threatened to punch his lights out". He ran off at speed. She was 13 at the time.
If this were in Brazil, she would be dead.
Yeah but it's not. In the UK and Europe most gropers are the equivalent of bullies who fold if you fight back. In those circumstances always do what others least expect and you wrest the initiative back.

Throughout my schooldays I never met a bully who folded when I fought back. They were usually so incensed that I had dared to that they beat the shit out of me.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:

quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
IIRC 5% is very close to the conviction rate for rape. That's 90+% of rape victimes getting no justice.
Which I agree is completely unacceptable.
Oh Dear what awful logic, shame on you.

To be clear; rape convictions are too weak, not enough women come forward in the first place and it is a blight on our society.

However some of the 90% taken to court and not convicted were therefore found innocent. Some for perfectly lawful reasons. I know it's Hell but you just make yourself look stupid writing stuff like that.

OK, I ws stretching things, but it's astonishing how few rapes come to trial and result in successful prosection. If benefit fraud prosections were as unsuccessful then the DWP's investigators would themselves be claiming benefits.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:
ExclamationMark: As regards the roping well, it happened to my teenage daughter in Greece. She turned round got the guy by the throat and "threatened to punch his lights out". He ran off at speed. She was 13 at the time.
If this were in Brazil, she would be dead.
Yeah but it's not. In the UK and Europe most gropers are the equivalent of bullies who fold if you fight back. In those circumstances always do what others least expect and you wrest the initiative back.
Throughout my schooldays I never met a bully who folded when I fought back. They were usually so incensed that I had dared to that they beat the shit out of me.

Perhaps they're made of sterner stuff where u come from but the ones I've dealt with have all backed off. I suppose for one of them having my fingers in his eyeballs was a pretty big deterrant ....

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

Sometimes I have fought back, once physically (and left him on the ground - he was very drunk), but mostly I use words.

I don't think you make a blanket statement about how all sexual harassers or bullies will react, I try to read the situation and react accordingly. Mostly this has been successful.

Huia

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I think that's nonsense. Telling young girls to always fight back is insane. Never mind Brazil, there are parts of London where fighting back could land you in hospital - or worse.

Telling people what they should have done in situations like thus is always nonsense. First of all, it is real easy to decide what the exact perfect response should have been under duress when you are not actually under duress, second, if someone decides they have the right to access someone's body if they want, and they are wiling to use force to get it, they don't really care about what the person does.

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

Wow, so that's two bullies here in Hell advocating violence over reason, or "let's become what we hate—it's okay, we're not them, and there won't be any consequences."

Victim blaming: it's not okay.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:
ExclamationMark: As regards the roping well, it happened to my teenage daughter in Greece. She turned round got the guy by the throat and "threatened to punch his lights out". He ran off at speed. She was 13 at the time.
If this were in Brazil, she would be dead.
Yeah but it's not. In the UK and Europe most gropers are the equivalent of bullies who fold if you fight back. In those circumstances always do what others least expect and you wrest the initiative back.
Throughout my schooldays I never met a bully who folded when I fought back. They were usually so incensed that I had dared to that they beat the shit out of me.
Perhaps they're made of sterner stuff where u come from but the ones I've dealt with have all backed off. I suppose for one of them having my fingers in his eyeballs was a pretty big deterrant ....

Depends on you being physically capable of doing that. I wasn't, therefore fighting back was a very bad strategy for me. And by extension, a bad strategy for many other people when they don't have a credible physical presence, as I didn't.

[ 03. September 2014, 07:55: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Depends on you being physically capable of doing that. I wasn't, therefore fighting back was a very bad strategy for me. And by extension, a bad strategy for many other people when they don't have a credible physical presence, as I didn't.

Actually, any kind of fighting back can backfire.

I was bullied as an adult. When I went to HR they sided with her until the evidence was totally overwhelming. Without excellent Union help, legal advice and evidence gathering I would have lost everything, not her. As it was she (headteacher, I was deputy) lost her job. But the stress of the fight caused me to need to downsize job-wise too in the end - so the fight wasn't without consequences for me either.

Maybe Jesus knew this when he refused to fight back and advocated the same?

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:

quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
IIRC 5% is very close to the conviction rate for rape. That's 90+% of rape victimes getting no justice.
Which I agree is completely unacceptable.
Oh Dear what awful logic, shame on you.

To be clear; rape convictions are too weak, not enough women come forward in the first place and it is a blight on our society.

However some of the 90% taken to court and not convicted were therefore found innocent. Some for perfectly lawful reasons. I know it's Hell but you just make yourself look stupid writing stuff like that.
Some of those 90% were found to be innocent, that is true. However, I find it hard to believe that +/- 95% of all people accused of rape are innocent.

I agree. I would go so far as to suggest that the vast majority of rapes go "unpunished." And that truth is abhorrent. My point (which I know you understood) was that it is unhelpful to the discussion to suggest non-conviction still implies guilt in all cases.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:

I agree. I would go so far as to suggest that the vast majority of rapes go "unpunished." And that truth is abhorrent. My point (which I know you understood) was that it is unhelpful to the discussion to suggest non-conviction still implies guilt in all cases.

Quite correct - maybe a reasoned, thought out response would have been better than a quick knee-jerk reply, but hey, this is the internet...

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

There was a piece on Woman's Hour (BBC R4) today about sexual assault on public transport, and what to do.
One of the contributors had been told by the police what the range of assaults were. From any sexual touching at all, which is assault, and they were very keen not to call it groping unless in conversation with friends, through rubbing up against women (that has an actual name, does it not, as if it is somehow acceptable), and exposing themselves, to actual ejaculating onto women.
No-one advised fighting back. It seems it is not possible to predict whether the sub-human thing will shrink away or do what that bit of benthos did at Carnival. Assume the worst.
They also pointed out that women may go into shutdown and not be able to respond at once.
If on public transport, report as soon as possible to the driver or similar official. There will be CCTV, which is kept for about 5 days.
The police are very keen to get hold of the few (oops, I wrote people there, that implies humanity) who are responsible. They are of the opinion that it is a small group*, and the matter is potentially containable.
*When I write group, I do not think they imply any connection between the perpetrators.

TPFF - just noticed the knee-jerk reference. Isn't it odd that that term is now used for a reflex response which is not advisable? Which of course, it is, followed by scraping the foot down the shin, stamping on the instep, and if he should have bent over, punching on the back. The running. Or proceeding to the front of the bus and reporting.

[ 03. September 2014, 15:30: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
TPFF - just noticed the knee-jerk reference. Isn't it odd that that term is now used for a reflex response which is not advisable? Which of course, it is, followed by scraping the foot down the shin, stamping on the instep, and if he should have bent over, punching on the back. The running. Or proceeding to the front of the bus and reporting.

You've missed the old classic - fingers in the eyes. That's always a nice one

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

That's because it's the one I couldn't bring myself to do. I am terrified myself of having anything near my eyes - what I will do when I need cataract surgery I don't know. I just couldn't do it. Besides, that sequence makes logical sense as a single movement. Hampered a bit by my not wearing heels, though.

I went to self defence classes at college, but came to the conclusion that practicing on a judo expert who was expecting me to do things, when I had to exclude the nasty stuff my Dad taught me, that he had been taught in the Army, wasn't going to prepare me for the real situation. And a lot of the moves ended up with me pinning the assailant down. Until when? I prefer removing myself from the scene! (And a sample of DNA by female type scratching or hair pulling.)

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And a lot of the moves ended up with me pinning the assailant down. Until when?

I had exactly this happen. A boy decided he harrass me. I threw him and pinned him. He was considerably larger than me. And whilst his brothers were not helping him, neither were they assisting me. Fortunately someone fetched his mother who hauled him away.
Self defence is admirable, but will not ameliorate all physical differences.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
lilBuddha: Self defence is admirable, but will not ameliorate all physical differences.

Nor will it ameliorate weapons.

Posted by saysay (# 6645) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And a lot of the moves ended up with me pinning the assailant down. Until when? I prefer removing myself from the scene! (And a sample of DNA by female type scratching or hair pulling.)

I've always been partial to a kick to the balls followed by running.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:

TPFF - just noticed the knee-jerk reference. Isn't it odd that that term is now used for a reflex response which is not advisable? Which of course, it is, followed by scraping the foot down the shin, stamping on the instep, and if he should have bent over, punching on the back. The running. Or proceeding to the front of the bus and reporting.

Or a good thump to the back of the neck.
Admittedly, that's more effective if the assailant is a Sontaran.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I have to say I have never done any of that! Except a halfhearted thump on the upper back to someone from the church youth club who was trying to remove one of my shoes (?). I am sorry to say I hurt him.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Best response on a tube train to groping I ever saw:

Sudden commotion in centre of crowded carriage, accompanied by a shouted "I found this up my skirt, whose is it and why is it there?" - then noticed feisty women holding aloft hand of very red-faced man next to her.

He was berated by all until he got off at the next stop, pursued (caught up with I think) by several other people from the carriage.

(btw 'proper' term for rubbing-up against is frottage)

If you see something unacceptable, or experience it, shout about it if you're in a public place - sometimes all other people need is the courage to join an initial complainant.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

I read some thrilling historical newspaper accounts of hatpin injuries in Edwardian and Victorian times -- women who responded to a grope by using the six-inch-long pin that held on their birdbath hats. There was actually legislation banning the hatpins. I will point out that knitters are notably dangerous people that way.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

My great grandma hat-pinned someone. This was in 1910's San Francisco.

My grandmother originally told us the story as the assailant getting it in the hand, but when I was sixteen or so I mentioned the story, and she coughed, " now that you're older, I can tell you-- it wasn't his hand."

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

My grandmother advised me about hatpins. Living in a time when they were no use at all (I could never understand where they went, having short hair) I never carried one.

And I did know the word - I just didn't want to honour it by referring to it. It doesn't have a suitably yucky sound.

Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And I did know the word - I just didn't want to honour it by referring to it. It doesn't have a suitably yucky sound.

Are you kidding? It's one of the yuckiest-sounding words there is! Unfortunately it kind of taints fromage (which ought to be a beautiful word, given what it describes), for me as well.

(Yes, on this of all topics, I should have something less trivial to say. Bit short of time right now, though).

Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And I did know the word - I just didn't want to honour it by referring to it. It doesn't have a suitably yucky sound.

Does it need to have one? In other contexts it can describe a consensual activity.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There was actually legislation banning the hatpins.

Protecting sexual predators from the consequences of their actions has a long history, then.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Yeah , no kidding.

I ran scross a " weird news" item in which s judge in New England ruled in favor of a lady who was being sued by a guy who had kissed her without invite. She bit his nose nearly off to get him off her, and he sued for assault. The judge ruled in her favor, saying if she was forced into such an encounter, it was her perogative to "eat it up" if she so chose.

I think that is possibly a tad extreme, but I think the judge was trying to make a point. [Big Grin]

( grandma's voice: "It wasn't the nose.")

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

(Forgot to say, this was around the turn of the century.)

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
I've always been partial to a kick to the balls followed by running.

I can't say inviting someone to stamp on my testicles before my morning jog would do a lot for me really.

[Razz]

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Oops . Sorry ,didn't mean to kill the thread .

Humour no doubt inappropriate.

Posted by saysay (# 6645) on :

Eh, I found it amusing. I think the thread was dying anyway with everybody having said all they have to say on the topic.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Oh right , thanks for that [Smile]

I was just scrolling down and saw a double take on your sentence and couldn't resist it .
Suppose it wasn't entirely off topic as the grope thing seemed to have morphed into a general bashing about of the male parts .

The remark was entirely in jest as I'm not in to jogging at all, morning or otherwise. Always looks way too exhausting.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

And, hey, it was only ever about someone you don't know being savagely punched in the face. Bit of a larf, innit?

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