Thread: 90% of the game is half mental: baseball 2014 Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=028110
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Pitchers and catchers report on February 8!

On the upside for my team, the Dodgers: they've renewed manager Don Mattingly's contract for three years, so he has some job security and the team has some stability.

On the down side: Yasiel Puig, the most popular and exciting player they've got, has now been arrested twice for reckless driving. According to what I've read in the local paper, the Dodgers have no intention of re-hiring the minder they had for him for a while last year, figuring he's got to grow up some time. Here's hoping he grows up before he crashes and kills someone.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
RuthW, thanks for starting this year's thread! Love the title.

Hall of Fame voting just finished. However, I have been listening to arguments over that procedure for, oh, two days now and don't feel like writing about it right now. Let me just say that the new inductees deserve induction.

And, yes, Puig is showing signs of being (if you pardon the expression) a classic case of crash-and-burn: lot of talent wasted on youthful stupidity. Cross-reference Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry. Let's hope he straightens out.

I have little hope for my Phillies this coming season. Last year we had our first losing season in years--and the biggest change that the team has made has been firing two of their TV announcers. Yeah. They were the problem. [Disappointed]
 
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
I predict another season of the Rockies playing their way into fourth place in the division in front of crowds big enough to convince the owners that investing to improve the on-the-field product would be a waste of money. [brick wall]
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
There will be a good feeling hangover at PNC Park until about June when the awfulness of the record, brought about by some unsmart trades will dawn on people.

That said, the Buccos will eventually record a winning season, though I'm less sure about the play-offs. We over-achieved last year and I don't think we'll do it again, not to that extent.
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
There will be partying in the City of Palms when the Red Sox come back to town for spring training! [Big Grin] We have the Twins, too, and I think ST tickets went on sale today!

Now, if I can just manage a trip to see one or the other. Both might be asking too much.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I'm just waiting to see if the Giants can recover from last year's bizarre decompensation (how do you go from World Champion to the cellar with essentially the same team? In the absence of a voodoo curse, anyway...)
 
Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
Hoping that My Beloved A's have a healthy year - if so, they are in good shape to win the West again - and that the Giants do some rebuilding.
 
Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
Excellent timing on starting this thread, Ruth - in the middle of the NFL playoffs and other things going on in sports, the #1 sports headline today was A-Rod.

I thought his suspension was harsh when I first heard it but an author who wrote a book about him was on ESPN radio this morning and broke it down.

Definitely predicting that he'll pull a Lance Armstrong here.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
So The Brat (a/k/a A-Rod) has now sued both MLB and his own Players Union. Which, if I understand it correctly, means that he has now waived the confidentiality agreement from the arbitration process--because he has chosen to go outside of that process. Apparently, the arbitrator found that the Brat had three established occasions of drug/PED use and two cases of obstruction of the investigation.

Those last two charges are the tricky ones. If it was just PED use, then his punishment would have been controlled by the union contract (50 games for a first offense, 100 for a second, IIRC). But there is no such limits on the obstruction charges. I gather that the arbitrator found that, while the suspension (162 games--or basically a full season) was highly unusual, the level of misconduct was also highly unusual.

I'm pretty certain his lawsuit will get thrown out. Which tickles me, too, because he will waste a ton of money paying his lawyers for a losing case.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Almost there! Pitchers and catchers for the D-backs will report on Thursday! (Feb. 6) The Dodgers will follow on Saturday, Feb. 8. These two teams get to start ahead of the rest because they will be doing the season opener games in Australia towards the end of March.

[tangent]And this coming weekend features the championship for the Australian Baseball League. A re-match of last year's championship: Perth v. Canberra.[/tangent]
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
On the down side: Yasiel Puig, the most popular and exciting player (we've) got, has now been arrested twice for reckless driving. According to what I've read in the local paper, the Dodgers have no intention of re-hiring the minder they had for him for a while last year, figuring he's got to grow up some time. Here's hoping he grows up before he crashes and kills someone.
Why hell doesn't he just hire a driver and buy a go-kart if he insists upon driving? At least he'll have to wear a helmet and other protective gear in addition to sticking to the track!
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
I'm just waiting to see if the Giants can recover from last year's bizarre decompensation (how do you go from World Champion to the cellar with essentially the same team? In the absence of a voodoo curse, anyway...)
I'm not putting any money on that one. The WS win was mainly down to the pitching rotation and Romo being great in the clutch situations. Plus some streaky at bats as well. Last year was a bad year for that rotation; Romo had a pretty good year but fell away a little.

I think some hard decisions may be needed about starting pitching, and then there will need to be some rebuilding. Don't think the batting is good enough to carry mediocre pitching; it wasn't even in the WS winning year.

It would be nice to be wrong of course!

Er ... Go Giants! (coughs nervously)
 
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Why hell doesn't he just hire a driver and buy a go-kart if he insists upon driving? At least he'll have to wear a helmet and other protective gear in addition to sticking to the track!
I wonder about this every time I hear about a celebrity getting a traffic ticket. Although as a car guy, you can probably get that the whole point of buying a fancy sports car is to take it out cruising- it would be a shame to finally buy that Maserati you've always wanted and never even rev the engine at a group of aspiring models in line at a club.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Why hell doesn't he just hire a driver and buy a go-kart if he insists upon driving? At least he'll have to wear a helmet and other protective gear in addition to sticking to the track!
I wonder about this every time I hear about a celebrity getting a traffic ticket. Although as a car guy, you can probably get that the whole point of buying a fancy sports car is to take it out cruising- it would be a shame to finally buy that Maserati you've always wanted and never even rev the engine at a group of aspiring models in line at a club.
Charlie Watts doesn't drive (on public roads anyway) but he has a fine collection of cars that must include a Maserati, probably a sixties Quattroporte. Then again he's a bit older, breeds horse, likes cricket and has Mick Jagger to sing along to his drumming.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Spring training games get fully underway today! [Yipee] I get to listen to (admittedly rather sloppy) baseball today!
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Grady Sizemore showed some good stuff in the Cards-Sox training game. Pleased to see that. Game was on ESPN in the UK, which was nice.

For the Giants, Lincecum continues to give the impression that his best years are behind him. It looks like there will be at least two changes in the SP rotation (and maybe more to come). I'm hopeful of a better year (but not too hopeful).
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
The season opens for real tonight at PNC Park where the Cubs provide the entertainment.

It's on TV too, here in Britain, on ESPN at 6pm, so I shall be there, annoying the kids.

Come on you Bucs!
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
That is great! Unfortunately, my team is playing this afternoon (local time) while I am work, so I won't be able to see it. I will be able to listen on the radio, though. Fortunately, baseball is a good sport for radio.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
There a little yin-yang going on here: The Cubs-Pirates game (followed by Sioni Sais) has just gone into extra innings as a 0-0 tie. Meanwhile, I am listening to the Phillies-Rangers game, which is currently 10-8 in the top of the 6th inning...
 
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
And I thought the 9-7 Nats/Mets game was high-scoring; 14-10, no extra innings? What is this, football?
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Here is where I enter the thread and make myself universally despised: Go Yankees!
 
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
…

I'm not sure if the legal requirement of all good Americans to hate the Yankees trumps my Nats fan requirement to hate the Phillies, but I'm thinking it does.
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Does it help if I say that I prefer National League rules to American League rules? And that I'm really really really nice? I root for the Yankees because they're my hometown team.

OK, I have no idea why, if I prefer NL rules, and am from NY, why I don't root for the Mets. The idea has never occurred to me. I think I might have to eat my words: perhaps I am a prototypical nasty Yankee fan.

Hmmmm.

[ETA: prototypical nasty Yankee fan who can't type...]

[ 01. April 2014, 02:36: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
1. Preferring the rules of baseball over whatever they play in the American League is simply normal, sane, and rational.

2. Being from New York almost gets you a pass; I'll give you "not evil, just misguided" this once.
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Does it help if I say that I prefer National League rules to American League rules?
I was born in the City of the Angels and lived three miles from Chavez Ravine until we moved away with our young family when our daughter was ten weeks old. I still root for the Dodgers, but if the Angels are in the playoffs, I cheer for them!
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Here is where I enter the thread and make myself universally despised: Go Yankees!
Ppthhhhh! (That's a Bronx cheer).
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
There a little yin-yang going on here: The Cubs-Pirates game (followed by Sioni Sais) has just gone into extra innings as a 0-0 tie. Meanwhile, I am listening to the Phillies-Rangers game, which is currently 10-8 in the top of the 6th inning...
Followed .... from behind the sofa ....

Still, it worked out.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I hope the Pirates stop doing this to me. Went to pick up final score on TV and found it tied 2-2 in the eleventh! Sat there for an hour plus waiting for a decision.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
At least they are winning! The Phils have lost their last two games by blowing leads in the 8th and 9th.

It is the crazy logic of baseball: the Phillies won the first game when their starting pitcher was horrible; but they then lost the next two games when their starting pitchers pitched great.
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
2. Being from New York almost gets you a pass; I'll give you "not evil, just misguided" this once.
Can I extend that "once" as an unbroken span until we win our next World Series? (I am too nice to mention which number that will be.) That will allow me to use the "not evil, just misguided" exception clause for, oh, a couple of decades at least, it looks like.
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
And I thought the 9-7 Nats/Mets game was high-scoring; 14-10, no extra innings? What is this, football?
Real football would have been five-nil with five minutes of stoppage time!
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Yesterday the Pirates made two homers scoring five in the one inning. We were 4-0 down at that stage and hung on.

It's early days, no long trips yet, but after a decent pre-season it's promising.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Yesterday the Pirates made two homers scoring five in the one inning. We were 4-0 down at that stage and hung on.
That was simple baseball justice. The Pirates were on the losing end of a call at the plate that allowed the Cubs to score. The tag play itself was close and probably could have gone to replay, but apparently replay was not allowed because the ump decided that the catcher blocked the plate...despite having the ball in his hand and tagging the runner out.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Where would pro sport be without marginal calls?!? From my limited viewing and knowledge there are plenty of tight calls in baseball and the officials get a hell of a lot of them right with (and this is an important sport and Pond difference) far less whinging about referees and umpires from managers and coaches in, I'd suggest soccer, cricket and even rugby.

But yeah, it was justice. And over 162 games class, form, team depth and talent should tell.
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I went to a baseball game today. (Interleague play: Mets at Angels.) City solidarity overcame subway rivalry so I was rooting for the Mets. Only to be treated to the most ridiculous of ridiculous endings to a game: after intentionally walking two batters to load the bases with one out, the Mets pitcher got the count to 2 and 2... and then HIT THE BATTER. That's right, the Mets lost to a Walk Off Hit By Pitch that they themselves set up.

The only thing more ridiculous would have been if the Mets lost track of who was where and lost on a Walk Off Intentional Walk.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I've not been around this game long but the intentional walk is joining a short list of Things I Don't Like About Baseball. Some of the facial hair in the game is pathetic too.

In a game this crazy, I'm sure there have been all-walk runs.
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I suppose (and this is coming from my Mafia alter-ego Ios who has spent the past six weeks thinking about various insane devious strategies) there could be an intentionally walked-in run. Suppose the bases are loaded, two outs, you're ahead by a few runs but not many, and Huge Slugger With Insane Batting Average comes to the plate. You might intentionally walk him and take the one run hit in order to get at Really Pathetic Batter following him.

Then if you're the No-Luck Mets, Really Pathetic Batter will turn out to be Madison Bumgarner and he'll hit a grand slam.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Back in the days when Barry Bonds was playing, I think there were one or two times when a team chose to intentionally walk him and force in a run rather than let him hit a grand slam.

The intentional walk is a strategy, of course. But there is also what is loosely referred to as the "unintentional intentional walk": A really good batter is up. The pitcher is trying so hard to make sure that the batter has nothing good to hit that, eventually, the batter is walked. The end result is the same as an intentional walk, but the pitcher has to work harder to do it. Easier to just do the intentional walk.

But deliberately walking two batters just to fill the bases in the hope of having a force at any base? That strikes me as really bad strategy. Walk one to set up a double play I understand. But walk 2? [Disappointed]
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
My Dodger slaughtered the desert rats. We are still number one, I believe!
 
Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:

But deliberately walking two batters just to fill the bases in the hope of having a force at any base? That strikes me as really bad strategy. Walk one to set up a double play I understand. But walk 2?
Barry is one of few to have been intentionally walked with the bases loaded, too.
 
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
I was almost late for choir warm-up this evening because I got caught up in the NPR summary of this article, which details the harrowing journey of Yasiel Puig out of Cuba to Los Angeles, by way of a fleabag motel on Isla Mujeres, with the assistance (sort of) of some really nasty human traffickers. It is definitely worth a read.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
All kinds of gloom in Pittsburgh, but it looks like some fans reckon one winning season gives the Bucs some divine right to the post-season. It was my first season but I wonder if there were others who should really have known better.

Some of our players aren't at the top of their game but many games are very close and there are now *four* competitive teams in the NL Central Division.
 
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
We went to the Rockies-Phillies game yesterday afternoon with a friend from Philadelphia. It was interesting seeing her reaction to the more casual attitude taken to baseball in this football city. She was shocked at the small number of jerseys seen at the game, by the sheer number of people rooting for the other team, by the fact that the tickets only cost $5 a pop, and by the fact that most people seemed more interested in getting a suntan or a drink than in watching the game. It was a heck of a game, with lots of lead changes, and it probably came down to three bad fielding errors by the Rockies. Not that most of the crowd noticed, but it was nice sitting with someone who actually wanted to watch the game.
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Og, thanks for posting the link to the article that the NPR report was based on. I too found myself sitting in the car to hear the end of the report.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Og, I think it is becoming a lot more common to have fans of the "other" team showing up at stadiums. The ability to watch games of any team all season has diluted the concept of a "local" team.

But it is tiresome to try to watch a game with people who aren't interested in the game. I have sat at games in Philadelphia where the people around me apparently came just to socialize with each other and had no interest in the game itself (and from their conversation, it was evident that they only had a rudimentary knowledge of baseball to begin with). I honestly don't get why anybody would pay for tickets (especially fairly pricey ones in Philly) for something that they don't have any real interest in.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
<snip>
But it is tiresome to try to watch a game with people who aren't interested in the game. I have sat at games in Philadelphia where the people around me apparently came just to socialize with each other and had no interest in the game itself (and from their conversation, it was evident that they only had a rudimentary knowledge of baseball to begin with).
Hands up all those who have been to church and wondered much the same!
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
....I got caught up in the NPR summary of this article, which details the harrowing journey of Yasiel Puig out of Cuba to Los Angeles
I am still reading the v. long article from my hometown magazine and I noticed a big copy-editing error on the first page: Puig was not on a "cigarette boat", but aboard a CIGARETTE, arguably the fastest and most desirable offshore speedboat money can buy with at least 1000 horsepower between the two mighty V8s propelling it to a vey high speed!

It is a very long article and I shall finish it later today...

I don't care what he did to get here, he's still my favourite player today. (I just wish he would hire somebody to drive his cars!)
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
An hour and a half game delay followed by a long cold rain-soaked night results in a 6-1 win by the Mets at the Phillies. Cole Hamels helped the Mets greatly by issuing a large number of walks. Go Cole!

I have now acquired a Phillies stadium blanket to go with my Angels stadium blanket acquired on my previous business trip. Next business trip I take during baseball season I'm going to pack one of my two stadium blankets so I don't need to buy yet another one at whatever unexpectedly cold ballpark I find myself in next.

In the middle of the 6th inning one of the Mets fans in front of me proposed to his girlfriend and presented her with an enormous diamond ring. All their friends cheered. I wonder if they were in on the secret.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
An hour and a half game delay followed by a long cold rain-soaked night results in a 6-1 win by the Mets at the Phillies. Cole Hamels helped the Mets greatly by issuing a large number of walks. Go Cole!
Because of injury, it was only Cole's 2nd start of the year, so I don't think he has sharpened his aim yet. Add to that a cold night so that it is harder to get a good grip on the ball (without using pine tar!) and I can't say I am surprised that he was walking a lot.

But props to you for enduring the weather!

Tonight's game has already been called for rain--over 5 hours in advance.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
The Giants are on an early season roll. Mostly through winning nearly all the many close games they've been involved in. Which happened last year, before they went into decline. Sweeping the Braves also seems to point to big trouble with Atlanta this year.

But I'm enjoying it while it lasts, hoping for the best. The difference between a winning team and a losing team can be pretty small. That pitching rotation still looks brittle to me, though Hudson looks like a good addition. And the objectively underpowered (but very smart) Romo continues to close well, even in clutch situations. The bats are hitting lots of home runs when it counts. Nice start.

[ 05. May 2014, 07:40: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
It was good to see the Padres eke out a win, thanks to one or more players from my alma mater San Diego State. I wish I could see coach Tony Gwynn in action, but when I am in town I tend to spend most of my free time surfing and never think about college baseball!
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I've not posted much here because we have been so poor this season. Actually, that's not true. The Pirates have been poor compared to last season where we led the all-league rankings for a (very short) period. We started this season badly with returners coming back no better than when they went away so it was a joy to see Charlie Morton win and Jason Grilli save a 4-3 win! Shades of 2013! Go Bucs!

It'll be an uphill struggle to get into the play-offs (we need 70+ wins out of 115 games!) but I reckon a winning season (61+ wins) is on.
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Look at the lovely (136 page, pdf) document I found!

MLB official baseball rules

I'm finally going to be able to learn about live balls and dead balls: why you can run sometimes and other times you can't.

I'm also hoping to find out about a really mysterious statement I have been told: "Every out ends in a fair catch." Has anyone heard that? Is it true? What does it mean? Is it actually a garbled version of something else?

I was told it in the context of why, if the catcher drops the third strike, they then have to tag the batter out (or throw the batter out at first), and no matter how much I argued that dropping the ball and then picking the ball up was not a catch, I got looked at as if I had grown three horns and was missing something completely obvious.

We finally decided that the misunderstanding turned on what "every" means, and for the sake of friendly harmony I let my friend believe that I was the one who was confused on "every", but when I had him explain this dictum to me in other words, he said it means that if you don't make a fair catch (e.g. the catcher dropping the third strike) then it's not an out and you have to do something else to get the out. Which to me is the exact opposite of "every out ends in a fair catch," and is why I wonder if this is a garbled version of something he learned as a young child and is too attached to to be able to see that he has the mantra backwards, or inside out, or something.

Any ideas?
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
There is a lot of good reading in the official rules. For example: finding out what the actual strike zone is supposed to be.

I had not heard the "every out ends in a fair catch" phrase before. To some extent, I agree with you. I think it is true that most outs end in a fair catch, either by the catcher catching the third strike, or the first baseman catching the throw to first, or the fielder snagging the fly ball, etc. etc. So, on a dropped third strike, what usually happens is the catcher picks up the ball and throws it to first to "complete the strike out." Of course, that assumes that the first baseman makes a fair catch of the throw so, once again, the out ends with a fair catch.

But that doesn't always happen. If the butterfingered catcher drops a third strike, the batter can still be put out by the catcher quickly picking up the ball and tagging the batter. In that case, there is no other throw and no "catch" under the usual definition of the word. IMHO. So I agree with you, the aphorism isn't completely true.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
Well, the Giants do seem to have got their mojo working, even with the Freak being half the man he used to be (never should have cut his hair, I say). Having followed them for more than half a century, I have to say this is the most balanced team I've ever seen.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
WTF? Bucs lose a game 3-2 against *one* hit (plus walks, an error and assorted first inning brainfarts) then win 15-5 against the high-flying Boozers.

The season is definitely improving! We're two games off 0.500 and only 8th in the NL overall, against 12th a couple of weeks ago.

[ 07. June 2014, 16:28: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
I "gameday'd my way through the finale of the 5-4 comeback win against the Mets - and it looks as though the Giants at this stage of the season are capable of winning just about anything. Hudson had his worst game so far, but they still got the win somehow.

The Freak does now seem to be the weakest link in the pitching rotation. He's pitching today ...
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
... and notched a win. Another tight game, with a good save by Romo at the end.

Timmy is a bit of a high wire act at present; getting through five or six innings somehow, giving away runs, but recently not enough of them to lose. He's fighting hard to retain his rotation place. But he's not the fearsome pitcher he was.

Currently, after 63 games, the Giants have registered exactly twice as many wins as losses. So 50% for the rest of the season gets them into the playoffs for sure (with 91 or 92 wins). Still early days, but I'd be surprised now if they didn't achieve that.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
They would have to totally fall apart, which is kind of what happened last year, but they didn't start out as strong. The difference is that when the pitching isn't so great, the offense has been coming through (not the past two days against the Nats, but mostly). And vice versa.

The great teams of the '60s and '80s were power-heavy, but could never get the pitching consistent (in the '60s they had two of the greatest pitchers in the game, but that's not a rotation). For the past several years they've relied on pitching, but with an offense that disappears at the most inconvenient times. This year they may have got the formula right....
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
It's not as solid as last year but at last the Pirates record reads .500. 34/34, that leaves 94 games and if we win 58 of those (at a fairly ambitious .617) we will have 92 wins, which is usually enough for October baseball!
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
So Kershaw through his first career no-hitter yesterday--and it was almost a perfect game but for an error in the 7th (I think). Still, that wasn't Kershaw's fault.

But the hubbub over that tends to gloss over a truly horrendous use of replay in the Cincinnati-Pittsburgh game. The Reds had the bases loaded, so it could be a force out at any base. The next batter hit a dribbler down the third base line. The pitcher came off the mound quickly, fielded the ball and threw to the catcher. The catcher had his foot on the plate but the rest of his body is well to the left of home plate (viewing it from the umpire spot) and he catches the ball before the runner gets to home. Force out, called as such by the home plate umpire who was standing right there and saw the whole thing.

It went to review and the reviewer in New York reversed the call on the basis that the catcher "blocked the plate." Now as I said the catcher's foot was on the plate--just like the first baseman's foot is on first base when a batter grounds out to short. The rest of his body was nowhere near the running lane of the runner. It was a force play--of course his foot was on the plate. That's how you make the out!

The official rule, 7.13 (although it is still a rule on trial-basis only) states:

quote:
Unless the catcher is in possession of the ball, the catcher cannot block the pathway of the runner as he is attempting to score. If, in the judgment of the umpire, the catcher without possession of the ball blocks the pathway of the runner, the umpire shall call or signal the runner safe. Notwithstanding the above, it shall not be considered a violation of this Rule 7.13 if the catcher blocks the pathway of the runner in order to field a throw, and the umpire determines that the catcher could not have fielded the ball without blocking the pathway of the runner and that contact with the runner was unavoidable.
I refuse to believe that the mere foot of a catcher on a plate constitutes "blocking the pathway of the runner." It wasn't a case where the catcher was crouching down in front of the plate and there was no way for the runner to get to the plate. In fact the runner did touch the plate with no problem--just after the catcher caught the ball.

And, just as a side note, that is exactly what the home plate umpire thought too. He called the runner out. It was the video replay umpire who substituted his own judgment for that of the on-field umpire. Horrible call.

Now I don't think I can say it changed the outcome of the game. The Reds had already scored 4 runs that inning and were leading 5-0 at the time. But after the changed call scoring that run, the Reds scored twice more that inning to make it 8-0. If the out call had stood, that would have been the third out of the inning so those last 3 runs would not have happened.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
A not unexpected outcome, Hedgehog. Not so much a problem with replay - or the rules - as with the brain of the video official. Horrible call.

Speaking of horrible! My team, the Giants, have had a horrible streak from the high spot of 42-21, losing eight of the last ten, and all of the last five. Injuries, bullpen and closer errors, fielding errors, and some pretty mediocre pitching have all contributed, but they seem to have moved from "we can't lose" to "how can we win?"

A truly bad slump. And Lincecum is up next to try to break it at Arizona. Given overall results you'd say "probably", but this fan is nervous ...

[ 20. June 2014, 11:07: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Brilliant steal of home.

The Rockies' Very Bad Day: When A Wild Pitch Clears The Bases

Watch how the third runner scores. Effing genius!
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
I saw that on the mlb website! Hedgehog may put us right from his archival knowledge, but I've never seen anything like that before.

Get's my vote for defensive blunder(s) of the year. And it was a smart dash to the plate from third.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Brilliant steal of home.

The Rockies' Very Bad Day: When A Wild Pitch Clears The Bases

Watch how the third runner scores. Effing genius!
[Killing me]
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I saw that on the mlb website! Hedgehog may put us right from his archival knowledge, but I've never seen anything like that before.
No, nothing quite like that. I have seen a batter on first score on a bunt (because of multiple bad throws). I've often seen a runner take an extra base because the other team forgot to have anybody at the base to catch the ball (including a guy who made it into 3rd and realized that the catcher was backing up there...so nobody was at home). But the walking casually toward home to lull the opposing team to sleep? First time I've seen that.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Baseball is an unlikely game. Speaking of unlikely events, Lincecum has just pitched his second no-hitter, from a 5-5 record and an ERA of 5 as well. Who'd have thunk it? But very timely for the Giants. Who needed something to lift them. And may just have got that .
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
And Buster goes 4 for 4, batting in Timmy twice...
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I'm ditching a meeting Thursday night to watch my Dodgers try to beat the Cardinals on MLB Network. It would be good if we could come close to catching up with the Giants, though my father-in-law would not be happy if this happens as he grew up in the St. Louis area!
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
So we have reached the All-Star Game break in the season. Time to review the situation(s):

Leaders:

AL East: Baltimore (by 4 games over Toronto)
NL East: Atlanta & Washington tied (and 7 games over 3rd place NY Mets)

AL Central: Detroit (6.5 games over Kansas City)
NL Central: Milwaukee (1 game over St. Louis)

AL West: Oakland (1.5 games over LA Angels)
NL West: LA Dodgers (1 game over San Francisco)

The AL East is interesting. Did anybody expect that the top two teams in the division would be Baltimore and Toronto?? And if the playoffs started today, even Toronto would not make the playoffs, being behind the LA Angels and Seattle in the Wild Card race.

The tightest division is easily the NL Central. 4 of the 5 teams are within 3.5 games of first place. By comparison, in the AL East and AL Central there is NO team within 3.5 games of first.

NL West: Basically it is just a battle between the Dodgers and Giants. The rest of the division is pretty much irrelevant.

And speaking of irrelevant, there are my Phillies who are really, really bad this year. Even worse than last year, which is saying something. Actually, if memory serves, last year they were at .500 at the All-Star break, and this year they are 10 or 11 games under .500. [Disappointed]
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
So we have reached the All-Star Game break in the season. Time to review the situation(s):

The tightest division is easily the NL Central. 4 of the 5 teams are within 3.5 games of first place. By comparison, in the AL East and AL Central there is NO team within 3.5 games of first.
There's no rest in the NLC. It's tighter than last year, when the Cubs and Brewers were in a race for the bottom. Four teams over .500 must be rare! The Cubs have plunged but the Brewers have fought right back and while the Bucs looked hopeless a couple of months ago there's renewed hope that we might make the play-offs again, with Cutch playing out of his skin.
 
Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :
 
Leaving from Asheville at 4:30am tomorrow with a tour company that specializes in baseball trips. A minor league game in Harrisburg PA then to NYC to see both a Mets game and a Yankees game. All that with a few hours in downtown. Should be fun. How much are draft beers in the NYC area?
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
A minor league game in Harrisburg PA then to NYC to see both a Mets game and a Yankees game.
So you get to see some minor league teams and the Yankees! How neat! [Two face]
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
Finally get a chance to control the TV and see a game and what do I get, an 8-1 shellacking from the Dodgers. How depressing.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Be grateful you can see a game. The Dodgers games are all on cable, so I see none.

But there is the radio, so I've just learned that the score was 5-0 this evening. Crossing my fingers for a sweep tomorrow. [Razz]
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Be grateful you can see a game. The Dodgers games are all on cable, so I see none.

But there is the radio, so I've just learned that the score was 5-0 this evening. Crossing my fingers for a sweep tomorrow. [Razz]
Ha! Wasn't on TV tonight so I got to watch Canadian football instead. I'm pretty sure you'll be getting your sweep. [Frown]
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
The Dodgers games are all on cable, so I see none.

Are you and my brother the only people in LA County over 21 who don't have cable? Is Vin Scully still on radio? I think he's on local television, but if he is, it's no longer on KTLA: my best friend from grammar school is technical director for the morning news there and he said Vin is now at another local station.

Score LA 4, Frisco 3. Dodgers now one and a half games ahead.

I watched the game on a major cable sports channel and I just stumbled across it last night while looking for something else!
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Outstanding Dodgers-Angels game last night, especially when the Major League Baseball channel picked up Vin Scully's local feed! I felt like I was a kid back in Pasadena listening to the radio!

(We did go to Chavez Ravine rather a lot and it was only a 3-mile drive... I miss it.)
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Honestly, I am surprised that Sioni Sais has not been on here bemoaning the loss of Andrew McCuthcheon. The Pirates need him. Period.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Honestly, I am surprised that Sioni Sais has not been on here bemoaning the loss of Andrew McCuthcheon. The Pirates need him. Period.
Last I saw he was yet to be put on the DL, so I've been busy praying that he won't be there long.

Without him, we'll just get a winning season. With him, we could well get a wildcard. He makes that kind of difference to a team that pretty modest otherwise.
 
Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
A minor league game in Harrisburg PA then to NYC to see both a Mets game and a Yankees game.
So you get to see some minor league teams and the Yankees! How neat! [Two face]
Well, the Yankees were beaten by the Blue Jays, 5-4, and the Mets beat the Phillies, 8-1. The Phillies had 13 hits and only scored once.
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Our Dodgers are still storming through, running roughshod over lesser teams like Diamondbacks. Future looks good for a team that I've supported for over 50 years!
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I am reminding myself that the most exciting pennant races in history (1951, 1962 and others) were when the Giants and the Dodgers were fighting it out at the very end--and the Giants won, of course. We're on track for one of those.

How did Crawford do that?
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Dunno.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
re: Bucco's. WTF is wrong with our closers this season? I've lost count of ninth inning losses.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
The Pirates are on a roll right now. Of course, playing the Cubs and then the Phils is likely to make most teams look good.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
The Pirates are on a roll right now. Of course, playing the Cubs and then the Phils is likely to make most teams look good.
SSSHHH!

When your pitcher (albeit, the one who can see the ball after he lets it go) hits a home run, life is good.
 
Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
The Dodgers have given us another entry in this year's lineup of fielding comedy. Three errors and two runs on one play. [Vin Scully: ¨Are you kidding me? ... Holy Mackerel¨]

Kershaw's disgusted flip of the ball at the end is the perfect end.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I haven't seen such a good impression of the 1962 Mets since watching the Cubs a few days ago at the gym...
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by basso:
The Dodgers have given us another entry in this year's lineup of fielding comedy. Three errors and two runs on one play. [Vin Scully: ¨Are you kidding me? ... Holy Mackerel¨]

Kershaw's disgusted flip of the ball at the end is the perfect end.
What a hoot! Thanks for posting that.

Meanwhile, where it matters in the NL, the Pirates took another step towards the playoffs. I reckon we need nine wins from our last sixteen games, but that includes three against Milwaukee and four against the Braves, and these two are our realistic rivals for the second NL Wildcard! Heck, if we win more we are talking about the division!

Squeaky bum time again!
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Now if "beam me up Scotty" was possble, I'd like to be at Dodgers-Giants for the next three. The outcome will probably decide the NL West.

Think Bumgarner will get the job done for the Giants tonight, but it looks like 2-1 to the Dodgers for the three games. Much though it pains me to say that.
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Dodgers 17, Gigantes nil. Say no more!
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
Please...
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
The Bucco's triple-play was something else. Down 3-1, all get up and go thoroughly got up and gone and the game turned completely in about three seconds flat.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Well, it was 2-1. Giants definitely look second best in NL West, but I guess are a good bet for a Wild Card. Don't expect them to last too long in October.

A pity, but my early season concerns about the pitching rotation (and Tim Lincecum in particular) seem to have been borne out. This is no longer a stellar rotation. Bumgarner has been a star turn this year (and that seems likely to continue) and there have been some good performances from others, but that's as much as can reasonably be said.

For the future, Strickland looks like a promising addition to the pitching staff. He's got a very fast fastball. Looks confident out there.

[ 15. September 2014, 10:43: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
The LA Angels have become the first team to clinch a playoff spot. Baltimore and Washington may well join them after today's games. The season is winding down!
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
We've got that winning season now, with ten to go. Can't help thinking that October baseball is ours to lose now with 3 v Milwaukee, 4 @ Braves ending with 3 @ Reds.

C'mon you Pirates!
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I wore my Angels cap when I went to the pub last night!
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
If you're not scoring many then shut-outs are worth a fortune! Two successive one-nil wins!

We've been aided immmensely by the Brewers and Braves falling away but are their D lists really that long?
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
The Pirates have clinched a playoff spot for the second year in a row!
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
The Pirates have clinched a playoff spot for the second year in a row!
My agent has been in touch and I have been offered me a spot on the roster!*

"Isn't a 57 y.o. limey an injury risk? Does he pitch, can he bat and has he got any kind of arm?" the Pirates faithful rightly ask. "Nope" say the management "He sits on his ass four thousand miles away and brings us good luck".

*In my dreams.
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Dodgers clinched! Pity I heard very little of Vin Scully on the broadcast....
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
The Pirates have clinched a playoff spot for the second year in a row!
My agent has been in touch and I have been offered me a spot on the roster!*

"Isn't a 57 y.o. limey an injury risk? Does he pitch, can he bat and has he got any kind of arm?" the Pirates faithful rightly ask. "Nope" say the management "He sits on his ass four thousand miles away and brings us good luck".

*In my dreams.
Whoever does get the other Wild Card will have the "joy" of facing a well-rested Bumgarner, who's been the best Giants' pitcher all year. That is going to be tough, whoever the opposing pitcher might be.

Don't think the Giants will go very far in the playoffs, but I fancy them to win that one against either possible opponent.

So maybe the Pirates will do better if they get the tiebreaker against the Cards and win it? Or maybe the extra game will hurt the chances of either team against the Giants if they lose a tiebreaker?

[I can always make a case for a Giants win!]

[ 28. September 2014, 08:12: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
No side is going to use a so-so pitcher in a one-game play off but the Pirates don't have a clear #1 like Bumgarner. Volquez looks best at the moment, but you could make a case for Cole, Liriano and Worley too, then you have to look at who will do best against a particular opponent. In any event Game 163 (which looks unlikely now) or a Wild Card game, affects our rotation less than some.

Our problem is that we don't often concede many runs. We might not convert enough hits into runs, but the Bucs are a hard team to play against, most days.

See you at PNC!
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
.. and it is Pirates-Giants; no tiebreaker. Watch this space ..
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
So we are into the post-season. In the American League, Oakland and K.C. will play a wild card game, with the winner playing the LA Angels. In the other series, Detroit plays Baltimore.

In the National League: as mentioned, San Francisco and Pittsburgh play in a Wild Card game to win the honor of playing Washington. In the other series, St. Louis plays LA Dodgers.

Anybody want to hazard a prediction? LA Angles have the best record in baseball...which to me means that they will fall at the first hurdle. Teams with the Best Record In Baseball always seems to have trouble advancing in the playoffs. Baltimore has impressed this year, but were running cold in the last few days. I have doubts that they can get themselves revved back up for the playoffs. Detroit, however, also has a record of disappointing in the playoffs.

I may be proven wrong within 24 hours, but I am going to predict that KC makes it to the World Series.

In the National League, the calculation is easy. As has been proven time and time again, St. Louis is deadly in the playoffs. I pick them to go to the World Series.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Think I'll go for the Nats in the NL, the Angels in the AL. Trend-bucking in a way, but maybe this year.

Derek Jeter made an impressive exit. I always liked and respected Jeter (and Rivera before him) as very great players, despite the team they played for!
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
My only prediction is a safe one. I can see both the Giants and the A's advance past the wildcard game but no further. It will be a sad October for both Bay Area teams.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
I just realized that it will take 48 hours for me to be proven wrong. The wild card games are to be played on Tuesday.
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Dodgers 1, Cardinals nil
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
The Royals won a truly epic Wild Card game - a tough game for either team to lose, but this time it was the As who drew the short straw.

Hedgehog, your hare is still running! Still confident about mine, at least for tonight.

[ 01. October 2014, 21:30: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 
Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
That's good for the Giants.

8-0; all the RBIs came from Brandon and Brandon, with a bit of help from Buster. Ring Lardner wouldn't have believed those names.

The internet says that Brandon Crawford's slam was the first postseason slam by a shortstop. That reminds me that the first postseason slam by a NLer was hit by -- the Giants' Chuck Hiller (2B), in the 1962 series. I don't want to read too much into that, since the Giants lost that series, but it's still fun trivia.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
That was cool. The Giants looked like what they are on their good days--the best team in baseball (like I said, on their good days). Bumgarner was brilliant, especially the way he got the Pirates to swing at so many pitches that were in the dirt, or nearly so.

(And I give Panda 8.5 for his dismount--I'm always surprised at how graceful he can be for a big guy.)
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
I've recorded the game, but seen the video highlights. Bumgarner is a really marvellous pitcher, has been all season. The game was clearly won, and Bochy could have taken him out of the game at the end of the 6th.

But that's not the way Bochy thinks. Baseball is indeed "90% half mental" and that shutout will be both a morale-booster and a challenge to the rest of the roster. And the Panda catch was pretty remarkable as well.

The Giants will be in very good heart, and will need to be at their very best to win against Washington. I don't think they've been consistent enough for the series win, but baseball is a funny game.

There could be an eighth consecutive elimination game for the Giants in Washington. If either Peavey or Hudson get a win, that's very much on the cards. The big "mo" would be with the Giants then. I'm sceptical, but hopeful ...

[ 02. October 2014, 06:27: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Two great wild card games, for different reasons. Shame only three teams turned up and that the Pirates were the no-shows thanks to i) Bumgarner playing out of his skin - he really does look awkward to face, like slingy and round-arm bowlers in cricket - and ii) Giants having a far better batting strategy.

Still, you can't expect an easy ride in October. Good luck to the Giants against the Nats.

[ 02. October 2014, 07:36: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
It's a situation where experience counts, and the Giants have lots of postseason experience while the Nats have none. So I'm fairly optimistic.
 
Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The Royals won a truly epic Wild Card game - a tough game for either team to lose, but this time it was the As who drew the short straw.

Hedgehog, your hare is still running! Still confident about mine, at least for tonight.
That was probably the best game I've seen all season.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The Royals won a truly epic Wild Card game - a tough game for either team to lose, but this time it was the As who drew the short straw.

Hedgehog, your hare is still running! Still confident about mine, at least for tonight.
That was probably the best game I've seen all season.
And last night the Royals put down La Angels in Game 1...also in extra innings. They really can't keep taking every game to extra innings. It just isn't practical.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The Royals won a truly epic Wild Card game - a tough game for either team to lose, but this time it was the As who drew the short straw.

Hedgehog, your hare is still running! Still confident about mine, at least for tonight.
That was probably the best game I've seen all season.
And last night the Royals put down La Angels in Game 1...also in extra innings. They really can't keep taking every game to extra innings. It just isn't practical.
That was a great game but if they keep going like this I would imagine they'll run through their bullpen fairly quickly!
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Wow. Last night, the Baltimore Orioles had a huge rally in the 8th inning to beat Detroit. Today, the Orioles just had another rally in the 8th inning to beat Detroit again.

Best-of-five series, and Baltimore is leading 2-0.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Giants-Nats close at the bottom of the 6th. Strickland has just whizzed out a vital third batter with bases loaded.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
... and now concedes two solo homers at the bottom of the 7th. The risk of high speed fastballs. And now it's 3-2 Giants. Peavey pitched well but must be wondering if the win is disappearing.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Sitting on the edge of my seat. Romo squeaks out of the 8th - just. Giants hanging on to 3-2.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
YESSS!! Typical Giants nailbiter win. I'll be a nervous wreck if this continues. Be good if it did!
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Meanwhile in LA, the Cardinals are 1-0 but the Dodgers have forced Wainwright to 44 pitches in two inning! How long can he keep going if they want him for another start in this series?
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Anybody watching this? Kershaw blew a 5 run lead and St. Louis is now ahead 7-6! No, check that. 10-6.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
And St Louis hung on to win! Another game that kept everyone in their seats to the last play.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
Well... I'm really glad I live on the Left Coast, so I didn't have to stay up till Sunday (Nevertheless, I did manage to really annoy my wife by having the radio* on during dinner).

So we're back to Torture™? Amnesty International should give Belt a medal.

*I don't have cable or satellite TV, so I am rediscovering the pleasure of listening to baseball on radio. When I was a child, my mother believed that television stifled creativity, and would not allow one in the house. I listened to baseball games on my transistor radio, under my covers at night, keeping score on homemade scorecards. I watched the beginning of today's game on TV at the gym, but around the 6th inning my endurance gave out (the soles of my feet went numb after 40 minutes on the elliptical machine) so I was left with the radio broadcast. It was particularly amusing to hear the barely suppressed annoyance of the announcers, who had obviously expected to be home in bed hours ago....
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
How about dem Giants? Torture™ 2014 style. I tell you, thrilling though this is, I'm feeling pretty shredded as well as surprised and elated. What a Belt!!

[Yipee]

[ 05. October 2014, 05:46: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
How about dem Giants? Torture™ 2014 style. I tell you, thrilling though this is, I'm feeling pretty shredded as well as surprised and elated. What a Belt!!

[Yipee]
TORTURE!!!
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Do I smell a Freeway Series? Yesterday's Dodger game was agony after the first relief pitcher choked!

(By the way, I do miss the 'Stick - I took my daughter there about 25 years ago when she was visiting her grandfather and great-aunt in Walnut Creek. We sat near the 50-yard line way up in the stands; it was fun to pinpoint our seats during a televised 49ers game later that year!)
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
How about dem Giants? Torture™ 2014 style. I tell you, thrilling though this is, I'm feeling pretty shredded as well as surprised and elated. What a Belt!!

[Yipee]
Phew! I followed that too, thinking I'd be in bed by 2am*. Hah! I reckoned a ninth inning tie would put the Nats down but that was only halfway!

What a game this is.

*Hit the sack just after 5am.
 
Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:


By the way, I do miss the 'Stick
You may be the only one. Awful place, especially for baseball. Roger Angell wrote once that he always expected to find an old movie star -- Jimmy Cagney or somebody -- roaming its concrete corridors. It reminded him of a prison.

I just looked up a review of a book I mentioned here once. How Georgie Radbourn Saved Baseball
tells just the story the title promises. Georgie has to strike out the embittered Chief Executive Officer to relieve a season of endless winter. All of the players have been locked up in the "freezing cold Candlestick Prison". It delighted me when I first read it, and I may have to go back to visit.
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Nah, he's not the only one. I miss it, too.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Baltimore just finished off Detroit, sweeping them in 3 straight.

Detroit has made the playoffs in four straight years, and only made it to the World Series once (only to lose to San Francisco in 2012). Always the bridesmaid...
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Also .... Looks you might be right about the best record curse. For the NL as well as the AL.

The Bumgarner Fister duel looks tasty. And if MadBum does it again the curse wins for another year. And put a big smile on my face!
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Also .... Looks you might be right about the best record curse. For the NL as well as the AL.
I decided to actually quantify that (as opposed to going with my gut feeling, like I was). The results are a little curious.

So, first, we take the team with the regular-season Best Record in Baseball (or "BRiB" for short)for the year. Now, I was using that term to cover all MLB, not separate leaders in the NL and AL. As it so happens, though, in the previous ten seasons (2004 through 2013 inclusive), in three of those years two teams tied for the BRiB. Now, of those 13 teams who could claim to have the BRiB: 3 actually went on to win the World Series; 2 others made it to the World Series but lost; 4 teams lost in the League Championship Series; and 4 lost at the League Divisional Series. Or, roughly speaking, 5 made it to the World Series and 8 did not. And, of course, if we added this year, La Angels fell at the Divisional Series, so out of 14 teams the split would be 5 and 9. So, roughly speaking, two-thirds of the time the team with the BRiB does not make it to the World Series.

Now, this is a little deceptive. In 2007, two teams tied for BRiB: Boston and Cleveland. But both of those teams are in the AL, so only one could make it to the World Series (Boston). The other lost in the AL Championship Series (ALCS).

But, to balance this out, in 2013 two teams tied for BRiB: Boston and St. Louis. And both made it to the World Series (although, obviously, only one of them could win the World Series).

For those who are interested, the third year with a tie was 2006. The Yankees and Mets tied for BRiB, but the Yankees lost in the AL Divisional Series, while the Mets lost in the NL Championship series.

And a final note: if I expanded the concept to Best Record In Each League, then in 2005 the Chicago White Sox had the Best Record in the AL and they went on to win the World Series...but the team with the BRiB that year was St. Louis, who lost in the NL Championship Series.

Yeah. Okay. I was bored.
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
It seems more notable to look at how often BRiB fails to make it out of the divisional series. I expect scrapping and scraping when you're down to only 4 teams at the conference series, so not making it to the World Series doesn't seem like an indictment, much less not winning the World Series. What seemed so surprising last night was Angels getting swept by the lowly wild card team.

Or track how far BRiB gets in relation to how much their record tops the second-place team. A 162-0 BRiB team not winning the World Series would be really wierd; a 82-80 BRiB team, not surprising at all.

Hmmm, I'm taking a statistics course (memorialized in TICTH) which has a data analysis project. I wonder if there's a seed here for a project? Fun idea. (TICTH memorializes that the other students drive me up the wall. But I'm in love with the content of the course.)
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
[Projectile]

[brick wall]

[Disappointed]

[Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I take it the Cardinals won tonight?
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Condolences, Sir K. As I warned upthread, St. Louis is deadly in the playoffs.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Yes, but the Dodgers defeated themselves by having no middle relief and thus having to leave Kershaw in for the seventh inning. Again.

[Frown] [Frown] [Waterworks] [Frown] [Frown]

That guy who said there's no crying in baseball? Wrong.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
My only prediction is a safe one. I can see both the Giants and the A's advance past the wildcard game but no further. It will be a sad October for both Bay Area teams.
I need to have more faith. Kind of sorry to see the Dodgers go, maybe. A "101" NLCS would have been exciting. Definitely will be rooting for the Giants but if they don't win I'll actually pull for the AL team since neither of them have been in the WS since forever.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Not sure I quite believe that Giants win. Torture™ definitely back! After the key MadBum error in game 3 the Nats reciprocated big time. Oh me of little faith! But tough on Bryce Harper in particular.

So here we go again with the Cards. Which will prove to be the most deadly? Anything can happen now!
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Odds on the Royals; anyone's guess on Cards v Giants after last night''s cliffhanger. And still no Timmy!
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
More torture! 4-0 becomes 4-4, Romo just squeaks out at the top of the 10th, then the Giants win on an error. Cards must be gutted. I'm shredded but happy. I guess holding on to that early lead just wouldn't have been in character ....
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
More torture! 4-0 becomes 4-4, Romo just squeaks out at the top of the 10th, then the Giants win on an error. Cards must be gutted. I'm shredded but happy. I guess holding on to that early lead just wouldn't have been in character ....
Agreed. I don't know why Hudson was left in there for that long. Better lucky than good I guess.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
One more to go!! This one wasn't such a nail biter. Still, having seen a few of the ALCS games the Giants will need to start scoring more often if they hope to beat the Royals.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Long day yesterday so I videod the Giants Cards game. But I did see the last few innings of the KC win. Impressive bull pen! And they look like a very confident team on an impressive roll.

However, they have swept. And sweeping the championship game before the WS doesn't have the best of records in recent years particularly if your opponent has been in a close championship game.

Hedgehog may well have the stats!

I think PJ's comment about run scoring is right. The Giants are where they are now because they have profited from what seems to me to be an unusually high number of errors leading directly to scores. Not taking victory for granted and there may well be more torture to come but IF they get to the WS they need the big hitters to do better.

[ 16. October 2014, 07:33: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
I don't have specific stats, but I think a long lay-off between games allows a team to get rusty. Batters lose their sharpness on batting, pitchers lose sharpness in pitching. In the Royals case, the latter is the problem. They rely on their pitching, especially the bullpen. Going without competitive pitching for 5 or 6 days may make them less sharp. I am less concerned about KC's hitting because they are not a power team in batting. They live with just getting on base somehow and then stealing. Speed doesn't get rusty.

Although I picked the winners of the AL playoffs correctly, I admit that I never would have predicted that KC would sweep both series. Impressive.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
YES!!!!

Tight game with a really dramatic finish - i.e "News at 11" for grizzled Giants fans.

Off to sleep now!
 
Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
I'm going to stay up and listen to the postgame show for a little while.

Go Giants!
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
Wow! That was a great game, on both sides. The Shot Heard Round the World, v2.0. But you have to give Wainwright props for a really outstanding 7 innings.

I think that defense was really the key to this game, and the series--not just the Cards' many errors, but the Giants' tightness. I think Crawford should really get credit for saving the game--that was a marvelous bit of defensive play, and without it Ishikawa's homer might not have been enough.

On to Missouri--where I think experience will tell.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
Obviously I'm very happy with last night's results. In true Giants style they pulled it out in the end. I am in an interesting position here. During the World Series I usually cheer for the underdog or the team that hasn't been in the World Series in a long time. My two favorite teams are the Giants and the Cubs. Before this decade I've never had this practice conflict with rooting for my two favorite teams. The one aberration was the 1989 post-season where both teams got far, an eventful time for long-term Bay Area residents for several reasons. [Votive]
I don't think there is any way for the Giants to be considered the underdog here and I think someone could legitimately say "Not these guys again". I'll inevitably root for the Giants but I won't cover myself in sackcloth and ashes for too long if they lose.
 
Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
...the 1989 post-season where both teams got far, an eventful time for long-term Bay Area residents for several reasons.
I'll just note that you posted on the 25th anniversary of the quake.

(I was in the stands at Candlestick when it hit.)
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
This is odd. No ball game.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
This is odd. No ball game.
The Arizona Fall League has started (minor league hopefuls). The league website occasionally broadcasts games.

Yes, I was watching one last night. Addiction is a horrible thing.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
The World Series starts tonight. M. Bumgarner (18-10, 2.98 ERA) v. J. Shields (14-8, 3.21 ERA) in Game 1.

The teams' regular season records are very close (Giants: 88-74; Royals: 89-73). The Giants played the Royals in August of this year, and the Royals swept, beating Bumgarner, Hudson and Lincecum. But that is meaningless.

I confess I am torn on who to cheer for in this World Series. I am a National League person, so my loyalties lean to the Giants. But, as it so happens, my local minor league team (the Wilmington Blue Rocks) is affiliated with the Royals...and a good number of former Blue Rocks are currently playing for the Royals. It is tough to cheer against them.

Also, let's face it: San Francisco has fan support on the Ship. I am not sure we even have a shipmate based in Kansas City, much less one that is a Royals fan. I may have to root for them just to generate conversation!
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Bumgarner does it again and the bats turn up. Really promising start for the Giants. Not so great for KC.

Apparently they got a "heads up" commendation by John Cena after some trash talk by Randy Orten on WWE's Monday Night Raw from KC. A bit of "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect" may well be coming up from the Royals in Game 2. Which might be a challenge to my nervous system!

Seriously, folks, I'd prefer a tight series and hope we get one.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I did expect more from the Royals. The thing is, the Giants have three or four ways to win and the Royals have, at most, two. I was disappointed in the 2012 series, in part because the Tigers are my AL team and I would have liked it to be close.

Anyway, starting with MadBum probably gives a skewed perspective on the whole thing. Nevertheless, I say Giants in five, maybe six if Vogelsong can't find the plate.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
A question for our fellow fans across the Pond. When you watch are you subjected to the same talking heads that we must suffer through when we watch the game? I'm just wondering if you have to sit through Joe Buck's biased nonsense as well.
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I'm rooting for the Royals. Despite the fact that the Giants are probably the team with the most numbers of players that I really like. Not much conversation to add though.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
A question for our fellow fans across the Pond. When you watch are you subjected to the same talking heads that we must suffer through when we watch the game? I'm just wondering if you have to sit through Joe Buck's biased nonsense as well.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Why they don't just have Vin Scully while they still can I will never understand. Except he doesn't call whole games anymore, I don't think.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
I woke up early, checked MLB website on the iPhone and found that SF were leading 7-0 at the bottom of the 7th. Gameday gave me the rest of the detail. For commentary I think we normally get who you get. The feed is via ESPN. But I'll let you know after I've looked at the replay.

I don't much like Joe Buck either!
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Another great night for Bumgarner, but if you are 3-0 up when you deliver your first pitch it isn't going to be the toughest day's work? Still, three hits and one walk gave very little scope for the Royals speed between the bases, and their work in the field wasn't sparkling either.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Commentators; sounded to me like Rick Sutcliffe and Gary Thorne, who I think have provided commentary for MLB outside the US before. Why they do that I'm not sure.

No sighting of the comms on the recording I made, so I'm doing that on personal voice recognition.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Personally, I prefer to listen to the radio broadcast.

AN interesting match-up set for tonight. The Giants are going with Jake Peavy. In the regular season, he was 7-13 with a 3.73 ERA. In his career in the post-season, he is an unimpressive 1-3, 7.03 ERA.

The Royals are sending out Yordano Ventura. His regular season was decent at 14-10, 3.20 ERA. This is his first post-season and he has no decisions (despite starting two games). In the Wild Card game against Oakland, he pitched 0.1 of an inning, and gave up 2 ER (including 1 HR). He then had a good performance against the Angels, pitching 7.0 innings and giving up only one run. He then pitched 5.2 innings against Baltimore and gave up 4 ER. So, with that limited sample, his post-season ERA is 4.85.

Win/Loss records are a bad way to compare pitchers. ERA-wise, during the regular season, Ventura was slightly better than Peavy, but not enough to impress me. Both seem to have trouble pitching in the post-season. It should make for an interesting game!
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I have read that Ventura has as fast a fastball as any starter in the leagues. I doubt that makes much difference against batters at this level, but is there a reason for playing him at home, rather than at San Francisco?
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
I don't think there is anything more mysterious than that he could be viewed as KC's #2 pitcher (after Shields, who started last night). So he starts Game # 2.

Actually, looking at KC on baseball-reference.com, they seem to have a starting pitcher named Duffy who has not started as many games as the others, but who has the lowest ERA of all the starters. He is not scheduled to start any game in the WS. Admittedly, his regular season win-loss record is horrible, but that doesn't seem to be his fault.
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
So - Giants in 4?
 
Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Would Bumgarner pitch again in game 4? I'd like the series to at least go long enough to see Bumgarner again. I'd expect that to be game 5.

For tonight, whatever the merits or demerits of the starters, I'm hoping for something different than last night's "Giants' pitcher rules, Royals' pitchers implode at a slow but constant rate."
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Very good bounce back by KC. Strickland's inexperience showed. Lincecum pitched pretty well in relief. Hope he's OK. He and Petit could well be needed as the series unfolds. KC have a great bullpen and that looks to be a real asset in any tight games. I expect a few of those now.

Game on! This could be a really competitive WS. Obviously I want the Giants to win, but I want baseball to win as well.

[ 23. October 2014, 10:22: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
The two teams are very evenly matched. The next 3 games are in San Francisco. I expect KC to win one of those. And I expect SF to win one of those (Bumgarner is likely pitching game 5, after all). The third game is a toss up, but either way I expect the WS to return to Kansas City for the final game.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Very good bounce back by KC. Strickland's inexperience showed. Lincecum pitched pretty well in relief. Hope he's OK. He and Petit could well be needed as the series unfolds. KC have a great bullpen and that looks to be a real asset in any tight games. I expect a few of those now.

Game on! This could be a really competitive WS. Obviously I want the Giants to win, but I want baseball to win as well.
I think we have an answer to the question as to why we hadn't seen Lincecum in the post season. I hope we can see him again but I'm doubtful. Shame that he was used up in a game that frankly seemed unwinable at that point. Better to cut your losses and use him in another game.

BTW- don't know why I had a double post up there but looking at my post count it was at 666 when it did that. [Eek!] Joe Buck= the number of the beast? [Snigger]
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
So Game 3 is tonight. Jeremy Guthrie pitching for KC, Tim Hudson for SF.

For the season, Guthrie was 13-11 with a 4.13 ERA. Hudson went 9-13, but has a better ERA at 3.57. However, Hudson has been in a cold streak of late. In his last 7 games, he has 0 wins, 4 losses and 3 no-decision, with a 6.62 ERA. By contrast, in his last 7 games, Guthrie has won 3, lost 1 and 3 no-decisions, with a 3.07 ERA. In that one loss, however, he really had a meltdown, giving up 8 runs in less than 3 innings.

It is not really fair to compare post-seasons. This is Guthrie's first time. He pitched a grand total of 5 innings against Baltimore in the ALCS and gave up 1 earned run. Timmy, of course, has much more post-season experience (12 games, 68.1 innings) and his post-season record is 1-3, with a 3.42 ERA.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Yes, I think it will go back to KC, and the 3-2 might be in favour of either. The Game 5 looks likely to be Bumgarner's 2nd, with the Giants odds on for that. So a win from Hudson and/or Vogelsong (or a no decision plus great bullpen outing) looks to be the key to the position at the end of Game 5. I don't see SF winning both 3 and 4, but would be surprised if SF lost both.

So on balance, I think it will be 3-2 to the Giants at the end of Game 5.

A lot may depend on Bochy's juggling after that. Petit has pitched really well in relief in the post season and if either Hudson or Vogelsong pitch badly, I've got a feeling he might get held back for a key starter role back in KC. Peavy struggles every time out but he's shown great guts in his ability to keep the game at least tight after 5 innings.

I've also got a feeling that the KC bullpen may turn out to be more solid than the SF bullpen. Still feels like either team can do this. Am well prepared for a bit of a roller coaster ride!
 
Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by basso:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:

By the way, I do miss the 'Stick
You may be the only one.
Going back to stadium talk. Some people older that I am still talk about Seals Stadium.

The SJ Mercury-News has a story about the location.

My parents told me that they took me to Seals Stadium to see a game, but I don't remember it. It was probably a Seals game, come to think of it.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Wheeeee!!! Now this kind of rollercoaster ride keeps you coming back for more.

(Giants up 11-4 after being 4-1 down)
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by basso:
quote:
Originally posted by basso:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:

By the way, I do miss the 'Stick
You may be the only one.
Going back to stadium talk. Some people older that I am still talk about Seals Stadium.

The SJ Mercury-News has a story about the location.

My parents told me that they took me to Seals Stadium to see a game, but I don't remember it. It was probably a Seals game, come to think of it.
My first baseball game was at Seals Stadium, in 1958 or 59 (I'm not sure). Giants vs. Phillies. I don't remember much, having been only 4 or 5 at the time, but I do remember the view (from behind home plate, slightly to the first-base side), and I remember Mays hitting a home run, because everybody got really excited.

As for tonight--that was a great game. I have to say that Dyson's catch deserves to go down in history as one of the all-time great WS defensive plays, with Mays's 1954 robbing of Vic Wertz, but it probably won't because he wasn't on the winning team (Pence's catch was almost in the same league).

I do think it showed what makes the Giants great (when they are)--at their best, they're the best team in the game, even though they don't have all the best players. But they know how to work as a team, and how to execute--that 7th inning (both halves) was textbook execution with solid fundamentals all the way. The Royals are very similar, which is why this is likely to be one of the most exciting Series in recent memory.
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Somewhere along the line I ran across a little, ancient game book in my grandma's stuff-- it was my mom keeping score at Seals Stadium.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
That was another great one. For us Giants fans of a certain age, the last five years have been a kind of vindication. We grew up with one of the greatest Giants teams ever--Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Perry, Cepeda, the Alous--and yet found ourselves out in the cold every October except 1962, when things didn't quite work out. This decade was what we expected the '60s to be like. The only thing missing is a rematch with the Yankees...

Anyway, Bumgarner is a joy to watch--that glassy stare makes it all the more exciting, the attack of the zombie pitching ace.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:


Anyway, Bumgarner is a joy to watch--that glassy stare makes it all the more exciting, the attack of the zombie pitching ace.
A joy unless you are at bat, or waiting for that privilege. Hands up all those who think he won't pitch at all if there's a game 7?

As for the cold, glassy stare, while Bumgarner is scary I reckon Hunter Pence has the downright weird eyes. Hell of a player, but I want him on my side.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
We might not have seen the last of MadBum. If this series goes to Game 7, which I reckon is on the cards, I think Bochy will be aiming to get two or three innings from him.

The interesting scenario is if Bochy needs an early relief pitcher in Game 6. Will he go for Petit? Or Lincecum, holding Petit in reserve for all hands on deck in Game 7? I think he'd go for Lincecum. Petit would be excellent insurance for any decider.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The interesting scenario is if Bochy needs an early relief pitcher in Game 6. Will he go for Petit?
Ummm, yes. But not for long.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
I got home in time to start watching game six during the top of the third -- missed the 7 runs scored by then, but got to see Ventura walk three and still get out of that inning unscathed.

So tomorrow -- another blow-out? If so, by which team? [Ultra confused]
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I got home in time to start watching game six during the top of the third -- missed the 7 runs scored by then, but got to see Ventura walk three and still get out of that inning unscathed.

So tomorrow -- another blow-out? If so, by which team? [Ultra confused]
Hopefully the Giants. That was painful.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
The weirdest thing about this series is that the teams are obviously very evenly matched--and yet only one game has been close. Tomorrow, I predict either a 1-0 pitcher's duel or a 13-12 slugfest. No predictions about who wins.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
That was painful indeed. After that drubbing, momentum and history are with KC.

This WS has had only one really close game and I think the Grand Finale deserves another. A bullpen duel? A MadBum final flourish? Extra innings? A big HR from any one of the big hitters? None of the above?

Hold on to your seats for a final rollercoaster ride.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
That was a short game for me. It started at 12:07 and I was in bed immediately after *that* inning by 01:15! The Giants didn't look like they had the will to make a comeback and had collectively decided to put it behind them and come back tomorrow, which is of course today.

It's appropriate that two teams who qualified through the one-off wildcard games should meet in a best-of-one finale. Not that either #1 pitcher will start though.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
This is it. Game 7. I would give a pitcher review, but I think we can assume that it will be "every pitcher the Giants have" against "every pitcher the Royals have."

No prediction.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Well, in a series of surprises and two or three momentum shifts, maybe they will surprise us all? The bats will get hot and the winning score will be about 13-12 in the 13th?

But that ain't a forecast. I love close pitching duels so I'm kind of hoping that's what we get, DH's notwithstanding.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Top of the 8th. Giants hold slender lead. Bumgarner has just pitched his 3rd scoreless inning. KC bullpen is dominating the Giants. Couldn't be tighter.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Bloody marvellous! Phenomenal pitching by Bumgarner in relief. Great bullpen pitching by KC made this such a tight game. Loved it. 3.30 am UK time but what the heck. Baseball won as well as the Giants.
 
Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
That's a performance that'll be remembered for a long time.

The Giants' announcers comparing Bumgarner to Bob Gibson and Sandy Koufax. I'm thinking of Christy Mathewson. (For the latecomers, he pitched a complete game shutout on Saturday, and came back tonight to pitch 5 innings, allowing only one runner. Amazing. Nobody pitches like that these days.)
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
That was the epitome of torture! !!!

With Andrew Friedman now running the Dodgers I am afraid the NL West is going to be a more competitive division.

I am happy that Joe Maddon didn't follow him from the Rays. I am estatic that Maddon will be managing my second favorite team, the Cubbies. Maybe it will be their turn soon. I know, I know, that's crazy talk.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
Now that was a ball game. It was classic Giants Torture™ game of course, but that's what makes them so much fun (that clusterfuck in the outfield in the 9th was the final twist of the thumbscrews).

Obviously, Bumgarner goes down in history for this, but they ought to be resurrecting the "Mr. October" title for Panda. And Marco Scutaro needs to call his agent as soon as he's healthy again...

Panda's a free agent now, but the Giants have a good history of hanging onto key players, and I can't imagine they'll let him go.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Really, what more could you want from a Game 7? Tight right to the end, with a tying run on third.
 
Posted by The Great Gumby (# 10989) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Bloody marvellous! Phenomenal pitching by Bumgarner in relief. Great bullpen pitching by KC made this such a tight game. Loved it. 3.30 am UK time but what the heck. Baseball won as well as the Giants.
I have a horrible feeling that people are going to start feeling the same way about the Giants as I used to feel about the Yankees. It's not fair after mumblemumble years of suffering, but 3 WSs in 5 years is truly a golden age for any side. Imagine how good they'd be if there were any reliable starters other than MadBum.

The last WS to be this close at the death was probably 2001, which the Diamondbacks won with a blooped single in the bottom of the 9th IIRC. Actually, that game also featured an unlikely pitching performance on short rest, with Randy Johnson getting the win in relief a day after doing the same as a starter. Strange things can happen in a tight game 7, and that's what makes them so gripping.

Got to feel for the Royals - they were achingly close, and it just didn't quite happen for them.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Helluva game. I don't feel so bad about losing 8-0 to the Giants on October 1st now.

What do people feel about that review? It looked in to me at first, I'm not surprised it took 3 minutes to decide and there can't have been an inch in it.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
It looked in at normal speed, out on replay because Hosner's fingers did not initially touch the bag even though they were over it. Right call, by about a tenth of a second!
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
....after mumblemumble years of suffering ...
Yep. Three times in five years has been redemptive, but I don't think the Giants will be morphed into the Yankees by success.

Damned close thing this year. A truly exceptional WS performance by an extraordinary pitcher, but backed up by some stellar defence, excellent bullpen work particularly by Affeldt, and some clutch hitting by Panda and Pence in particular, Even then, the Royals were 90 feet away from taking it to extra innings, which I reckon they would have been sure to win. Really tough loss for them.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
This year I've learned that home advantage, or knowledge of the ballpark matters, probably more to outfielders than batters. Where they start has to vary according to batter, pitcher, game situation and shape and size of the field. KCs stadium is vast, so (I think) quick and smart outfielders are at a premium, hence the value of Lorenzo Cain who can cover almost half the outfield on his own, with Pence a little behind him - it's amazing how a big guy like him covers ground so fast.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Really, what more could you want from a Game 7? Tight right to the end, with a tying run on third.
Yeah, that's why it was so much more satisfying than 2012--it doesn't really feel like a Giants postseason unless you're sinking into your seat, resisting the impulse to cover your eyes...
 
Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
Roger Angell, the consensus pick as the best baseball writer of them all, and whose memory goes back a long way, compares Bumgarner to Mathewson. High praise indeed.

His New Yorker piece is titled ¨The Best¨.

I think I'm probably finished for the season now.
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
My memory goes back to Marichal (I saw him pitch twice), who only got to pitch in one World Series, and who was almost as good as Bumgarner. If he'd had the emotional stability, who knows.

It was a good'un. See you when pitchers and catchers report for spring training.
 
Posted by The Great Gumby (# 10989) on :
 
Just been reading some stats on the WS.

Madbum pitched 21 innings, gave up a single run, claimed 2 wins (including a total game shutout) and a preposterous 5-inning save, and had an ERA of 0.43.

Other Giants starting pitchers had no wins, never made it beyond the 6th inning (3/5 didn't make it out of the 3rd), and had a combined ERA of 9.92.

Never has an MVP been more obviously V.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I was trying to do those very sums! Thanks.

Lorenzo Cain is quoted saying that 'Without Bumgarner, we would probably have won'. Where did he get that 'probably' from?
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
The World Series is over, so my attention turns to the Southern Hemisphere for the Australian Baseball League--some of whose games will be viewable on You Tube this year (at the ABL.TV You Tube channel).

Go Sydney!

(Hey, I have to watch something to get through the winter!)
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
The World Series is over, so my attention turns to the Southern Hemisphere for the Australian Baseball League--some of whose games will be viewable on You Tube this year (at the ABL.TV You Tube channel).

Go Sydney!

(Hey, I have to watch something to get through the winter!)
I wonder if the fine Australian tradition of 'sledging' will be transferred to baseball from cricket. There's trash-talking in baseball, but the Aussies have raised it to an art form. At least three England cricketers have returned very early from tours down-under and I can't help thinking that our cricketers just aren't prepared for this aspect of a long trip.

btw, I'll be following Adelaide as I have family thereabouts. Nothing to do with a huge win over the banana benders.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Can't quite move on without a comment about the rainy parade. Hunter Pence's final celebratory contribution brought the curtain down nicely.

Next year? The heart will be there. I hope the Panda will be there. Looks like a great bullpen will still be there. But the starting pitching needs fixing.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Yeah. They need to dump that Bumgarner guy. Preferably to the Phillies.
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I rooted for SF 'cause they're just up the road apiece from Chavez Ravine and I did go to Cal for a couple of years...

Dodgers next year?????????
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Yeah. They need to dump that Bumgarner guy. Preferably to the Phillies.
I was thinking something similar. Not the same, but similar.
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Yeah. They need to dump that Bumgarner guy. Preferably to the Phillies.
[Killing me]
 
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
A PPS.

You probably missed it the other side of the pond, but in the Sutcliffe/Thorne commentary on the international feed, Rick Sutcliffe observed that Yost had lots of options at the start of the 5th. He could be flexible about the way he used that stellar bullpen to contain the Giants.

Whereas for Bochy, it was a little different. As soon as Bumgarner came out of the bullpen, in Texas Hold'em terms, the call was "all in". If that gamble on short rest didn't pay off, it was probably "game over". That was a neat observation.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Yeah. They need to dump that Bumgarner guy. Preferably to the Phillies.
I was thinking something similar. Not the same, but similar.
Continue to hope. #fiveyearcontractandstuff.
 


© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0