Ship of Fools: Dah de dum da de Zzzzz

Thread: Dah de dum da de Zzzzz Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

Down in the hallowed halls of Ecclesiantics the punters have strayed from the theme (with help from one of their hosts [Roll Eyes]

) to touch on the glories or otherwise of national anthems. Which ones do you rate, which do you hate?

Loathe though I am to admit it I love "Star Spangled Banner" and "La Marseillaise," though my favourite is probably The South African (and Zambian, because they stole the same tune, though their words are embarrassing!). The New Zealand is average, the Australian execrable, and so far the worst I've heard is the Brazilian which takes longer than Wagner's "Ring Cycle".

This site provides tunes and lyrics to jog your memory.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Fond of the old Soviet anthem, which we sometimes used to play on 78 to round off the evening in my undergraduate days.Nowadays when I hear it I often find my hand creeping up, quite spontaneously, to do a little Brezhnev wave.

[ 23. February 2015, 20:54: Message edited by: Albertus ]

Posted by Teufelchen (# 10158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Fond of the old Soviet anthem, which we sometimes used to play on 78 to round off the evening in my undergraduate days.Nowadays when I hear it I often find my hand creeping up, quite spontaneously, to do a little Brezhnev wave.

Me too. (The anthem, that is, not the wave.) It's a much better tune than ours.

I also like the Deutschlandlied, but mainly because the tune is by Haydn. Let's leave the lyrics to political history classes.

t

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :

At our local Remembrance Sunday service last year, the local school provides a band for the Act of Remembrance, who finish off with the National Anthem (UK version). This year it ran somewhat late and an order was given to speed things up a bit. Well, they added a bit of extra pace to God Save the Queen and do you know what the ghastly dirge actually sounded pretty decent. Give it a bit of wellie, not as though one's corgi has just popped its clogs, and it's a half-decent tune.

Despite coming from about as far East of Wales as it is possible to get in the UK without swimming, Land of my Fathers does it for me, especially when massed voices are giving it some humpty.

AG

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

We hear Land of my Fathers plenty by yur while GSTQ is booed every time it is played. Right enough, because it is boring, only outdone by Flower of Scotland.

A couple of weeks ago when Ireland played France in Dublin we heard La Marseillaise; Ireland, Ireland and The Soldier's Song: three top tunes.

Posted by Horseman Bree (# 5290) on :

C'mon Zappa. You just haven't heard the Brazilian anthem sung properly.

Try this example. Not only do enough of the fans know the words, but they insist on singing it with enthusiasm...

unlike most places

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Horseman Bree: C'mon Zappa. You just haven't heard the Brazilian anthem sung properly.

I admit it's a bit long, but it has a nice melody. Slightly on the frivolous edge of what's acceptable for a national anthem, but I think that reflects the Brazilian people.

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :

Oh Canada, how boring, boring, boring (English, listened to by millions)

Oh! Canada, zip de zoo da day (French) Sung with verve and volume high by people who know the words)

The Star Strangled Banner (sung enthusiastically by all its citizens, but usually off-key, probably in honour of Francis Scott Key)

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

The anthem of Portugal has Às armas! Às armas! ("At arms! At arms!") in the chorus. I once heard it sung by 300 school children, who of course sung that part with much gusto. I literally became afraid for a moment.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

The Italian national anthem. Catchy, bouncy, full of verve, it's lovely to listen to.

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

The Marseillaise, especially as sung in that scene in Casablanca. Aux armes, citoyens!

[ 24. February 2015, 08:25: Message edited by: Lord Jestocost ]

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

The first official Afghan national anthem was rather interesting: in 6/8 time, it had no words just a rather good melody.

It was written in an attempt to stop Pathan members of the Afghan forces singing their traditional marching song, which translates as There's a boy across the river with a bottom like a peach but, alas, I cannot swim. Needless to say, the old marching song has endured, to the extent that the Taliban, when in power, passed a specific law forbidding the singing of it, either with words or without.

The Argentinian anthem comes in at an incredible 3½ minutes and invariably provides one of the biggest challenges to the poor musician tasked with producing a minute-long version for Olympic games.

However, (and much though I'd like to say Hen Wlad fy Nhadau beats all-comers) for sheer verve its got to be La Marseillaise.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Fond of the old Soviet anthem, which we sometimes used to play on 78 to round off the evening in my undergraduate days.Nowadays when I hear it I often find my hand creeping up, quite spontaneously, to do a little Brezhnev wave.

Bound to have been an improvement on this!

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
The anthem of Portugal has Às armas! Às armas! ("At arms! At arms!") in the chorus. I once heard it sung by 300 school children, who of course sung that part with much gusto. I literally became afraid for a moment.

'At arms!' - rather ironic for a nation who built a whopping great statue in Lisbon to celebrate the fact they were neutral during the second world war.

The Star Spangled Banner is a great anthem - even if beyond the singable range of most ordinary people - unless you begin on absolutely the right note. But altogether a great tune, well written.

I would've said that the Flower of Scotland vs. the Soldier's Song - the Scots would've won that. Both musically and lyrically. Always thought there was something deeply canny about that line about sending the English back home 'tae think again'!

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Anselmina [Killing me]

Made my day - and its not even time for elevenses!

Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :

I proudly present to you the Ode to Newfoundland -- to the best of my knowledge, the only national anthem anywhere entirely dedicated to the weather. Oh, the last verse tucks in some obligatory stuff about our forefathers and praying for God to keep our land, etc., but the first three verses are all about the weather, as well they should be.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
The Marseillaise, especially as sung in that scene in Casablanca. Aux armes, citoyens!

Of course. And though I'm sure we all know the scene, it's always worth seeing again.
Mind you, The Watch on the Rhine is pretty catchy too.

[ 24. February 2015, 11:05: Message edited by: Albertus ]

Posted by Horseman Bree (# 5290) on :

Re the Scots and GSTQ: there was averse added after the '45, to deal with the Jacobites:

quote:

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save The King.

Two sides to every story

Posted by Horseman Bree (# 5290) on :

While I'm on here, I have a couple of questions.

I understand, from a book about such things, reviewed a decade ago by The Times, I learned that the Andorran anthem includes the lines:

"The great Charlemagne liberated me from the Saracens
And from heaven he gave me Meritxell the great Mother....

I am the only remaining daughter of the Carolingian empire..."

Obviously, this is suffering in translation, but how on Earth does one sing something like this?

Burkina Faso:

"Against the humiliating bondage of a thousand years...

Against cynical malice in the shape of neo-colonialism and its petty local servants...

Many gave in but certain others resisted..."

Doesn't sound like a rousing call to unity, does it?

And, Congo:

"And if we have to die
What does it matter?"

which pretty well sums up their dismal history.

And, re GSTQ, try singing the Liechtenstein:

"Oben am jungen Rhein
Lehnet sich Liechtenstein
An Alpenhoh'n"

which might sound quite good.

Oh, and from the article, it appears that Slovenia's anthem is mostly about fine wine. Is this actually so?

[ 24. February 2015, 12:24: Message edited by: Horseman Bree ]

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

Iss gorra be Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau isn't it?

There's a tune. There's words.

Mind you, my ol' Dad ewesed to say 'a' 'Jerusalem' would be a berra English National Anthem 'an God sav'a Queen ...

I da reckon 'e wuz right an'aw ...

'And did those feet, in ancient time ..'

There's a tune mind, there's words.

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
There's a tune mind, there's words.

Rather, a series of rhetorical questions to which the answer is "no".

Posted by Hilda of Whitby (# 7341) on :

In Baltimore, Maryland, there is a very local twist to the singing of the U,S. national anthem. It was started at a Baltimore Orioles baseball game decades ago and still continues. The Orioles (or the O's) are a storied professional baseball team with rabid fans.

When my husband and I moved to Balto in 1986, we weren't aware of this national anthem custom. We went to a 4th of July celebration at the Inner Harbor where the national anthem was sung. At the line 'Oh say does that star spangled banner yet wave" everyone *bellowed* the word "OH". We burst out laughing--not in a mean way or anything; it just sounded really funny. We found out from friends about the link to the O's.

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :

Back in 1973 or thereabouts, there was a Radio 4 programme called Week Ending (I think) which was a comic round up of the week's news. One week the story was that the French wanted to change the Marseillaise, so they wrote their own version which included the lines:

"They want to take out all the da-da-das,
And the tar-ra-ra-bum-di-ays.
What a shame! Who's to blame?
Callahan!"

Our classics teacher recorded it, and taught it to us in class the next morning!

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

Back in the 80s, I knew an older lady who would occasionally be heard humming the Polish National Anthem. If questioned about it, she would blush, smile, and allude to a wartime "friendship" with a Polish airman.

(Wherever you are, Mrs S, I hope you're happy! [Biased]

)

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
I proudly present to you the Ode to Newfoundland -- to the best of my knowledge, the only national anthem anywhere entirely dedicated to the weather ...

D. reckons there may be a verse missing, so he added it:

And when three feet in front of you
You cannot see your hand
With cloudy hills and misty rills,
We love thee, foggy land ...
[Killing me]

I love the Ode - it always brings a lump to my throat, and I'm a CFA*. I'm also quite attached to GSTQ and O Canada; whenever we have a remembrance service or other military service, we get all three, which is fine by me.

IMHO Flower of Scotland is a frightful old dirge, and should be replaced with Scotland the Brave - I can't help thinking it would fire up our rugby team a bit better ... [Big Grin]

* Comes From Away

Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on :

Another vote for Mae'r Hen Wlad fy Nhadau.

Posted by Carex (# 9643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hilda of Whitby:
In Baltimore, Maryland, there is a very local twist to the singing of the U,S. national anthem...

Our daughter went to a High School who's team mascot was the Braves (before such First Peoples' references became less politically correct.) So when the Star Spangled Banner was played before each game the singing was only mildly enthusiastic until the last line, wnen almost everyone joined in with "and the home of the Braves".

Usually the tune drags, as is often the case when trying to get a mass of people to sing in unison. But when sung up to tempo (as befits the original words) it seems much more appropriate.

Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :

I found a second verse for Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau in an old collection of British national songs, which nobody seems to have heard of.
No votes so far for Nkosi Sikelele Africa? That's my favourite.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
to the best of my knowledge, the only national anthem anywhere entirely dedicated to the weather.

Possibly true, but there is a rumour that NZ is the only nation to have its entire defence policy incorporated into one line of its national anthem: "God defend New Zee-ee-eeeEEE-ee-land" (thus - sorry, horrendously Mariah Careyesque rendition but best I could find at short notice [Hot and Hormonal]

)

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :

Actually the Maori version is quite lovely; Like Canada, you could do with dropping the English wail.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

To Anachreon in Heaven has got to be the hardest-to-sing tune ever written (after, perhaps, O Holy Night). So which one is sung at baseball games and school assemblies and political rallies four thousand times a day? The idea of a flag surviving a bombardment being a symbol of a nation surviving attack is a fine one. But can't we sing it to a more singable tune? Like maybe "Old MacDonald's Farm"?

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

Any national anthems or songs which require me to express belief that my country is more blessed than others, or that God had some special hand in its founding more than others, I won't sing. (This also goes especially for ones in church.) To me, those are toxic, idolatrous nonsense.

Asking God to bless our nation is just fine, though I think we need to ask Him to bless everyone else too.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
I found a second verse for Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau in an old collection of British national songs, which nobody seems to have heard of.
..

It's a good verse, too. I find myself singing it to myself fromm time to time.
Here's Cerys Matthews singing the two verses (second one in, after a minute or so). There's a third verse too- wikipedia will show them to you, with translations.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

Aux Armes, Citroëns
Formez vos battaillons
Roulez, roulez
Q'un essence impur
Abrueve vos deux chevaux.

(To arms, Citroëns, line up together, Roll on, roll on, lest bad petrol spoil your 2 horsepower - I hope a good enough translation for the Hosts.)

[ 25. February 2015, 09:30: Message edited by: Gee D ]

Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Teufelchen:

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Fond of the old Soviet anthem, which we sometimes used to play on 78 to round off the evening in my undergraduate days.Nowadays when I hear it I often find my hand creeping up, quite spontaneously, to do a little Brezhnev wave.
Me too. (The anthem, that is, not the wave.) It's a much better tune than ours.

Have you noticed that you can sing Away in a Manger to that tune? (Use the upbeats for the first syllable of each line.)

Makes Christmas services a lot more exciting [Smile]

Amy

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

quote:
Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
Another vote for Mae'r Hen Wlad fy Nhadau.

As well as a translation, there is another useful resource: words that make you look like you are singing the real thing. (John Redwood, once Secretary of State for Wales, was famously embarassed by a TV appearance when he was unable to sing the anthem!) My training rector taught it to me long years ago: I can't remember much, but I recall it began
My hen laid an egg in the henhouse last night... [Devil]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Or
My hen laid a haddock, one hand oiled a flea; glad farts and centurions threw dogs in the sea...

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

If you YouTube you can find Bryn Terfel singing Hen Wlad fy Nhadau...

My late-lamented, though English, said there was nothing made the hairs on the back of the neck rise quite like a stadium full singing Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
...No votes so far for Nkosi Sikelele Africa? That's my favourite.

Good Call.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

This is a tangent, but is there any national anthem with more questions marks than the USA's Star Spangled Banner? And does anyone use the word "spangled" anywhere else? Maybe it is worth trying, such as "spangle some milk into my coffee would you please?"

I am not overly fond of O Canada, I don't know that we really need to stand on guard for thee, but rather shovel snow. Or in the other season, swat mosquitos.

Finally, I heard a rumour that the US state of Oregon was trying to have Louie Louie declared as the state song. (Louie Lou-eye oh-oh, we gotto go, yah yah yah yah etc.) I hope it's true.

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ArachnidinElmet:

quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
...No votes so far for Nkosi Sikelele Africa? That's my favourite.
Good Call.

Well, no votes except Zappa in the opening post anyway!

Top trivia fact, the national anthem of South Africa is a blended hybrid of Nkosi Sikelele Africa and the old apartheid era Die Stem van Suid-Afrika.

As such it finishes in a different key to the one it starts in
[Overused]

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
does anyone use the word "spangled" anywhere else?

Possibly not as bad as Australia's "girt"

Posted by AngloCatholicGirl (# 16435) on :

I've always liked it when they play Land of Hope and Glory for England. I remember during the commonwealth games in Manchester they where playing it for the anthem when England got a gold medal presented. A lot of people where singing along in the stadium so some bright spark had the idea of putting the words up on the big screen and the when the next (English) athlete was presented with gold the whole stadium burst into Land of Hope and Glory at full volume. I remember the athlete being so surprised at the volume that she nearly dropped her bouquet

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
And does anyone use the word "spangled" anywhere else?

Pretty much with shiny things on cloth, as in, "The skaters' costumes were spangled with glitter" or the like, and that's about it, I think. [Smile]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
I found a second verse for Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau in an old collection of British national songs, which nobody seems to have heard of.
No votes so far for Nkosi Sikelele Africa? That's my favourite.

I love that song. The harmony on it is stunning.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

After half an hour of desultory youtubing, I've reached the conclusion that it's impossible to tell the difference between a collection of South American national anthems, and an album of Rossini opera choruses.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

That's probably because it's historically been difficult to tell the difference between South American governments and a season of Rossini operas.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
No votes so far for Nkosi Sikelele Africa? That's my favourite.

And mine.

Posted by Clarence (# 9491) on :

Has anyone voted for Finlandia yet? Has to be one of the best and up there with O Canada.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

No one has voted for Finlandia because it isn't a national anthem!

The national anthem of Finland is called Maamme: music by a Finn (Frederik Pacius) and words taken from a long Swedish poem by Johan Runeberg.

Finlandia is a fine tune (number 7 of a Symphonic Poem) and was indeed written about his native land by Jean Sibelius, and the words that were added in 1941 make it a popular patriotic song, but it is not the national anthem - oh, and Sibelius didn't like the words and its only usually performed with them in Finland, elsewhere orchestras just perform the Symphonic Poem.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

The national anthem of Finland is called Maamme...

Not, I take it, the one recorded by Al Jolson...(The Sun shines East/ the Sun shines West/ But I know where the Sun shines hardly at all for half the year, actually...)

[ 28. February 2015, 16:19: Message edited by: Albertus ]

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :

I was always rather fond of the tune to the East German national anthem (sorry no link - the audio isn't working on my laptop at the moment, so I didn't dare link to a random YouTube version in case it was inadvertently a NSFW spoof or somesuch!).

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
The Marseillaise, especially as sung in that scene in Casablanca. Aux armes, citoyens!

Yes, yes, makes me all teary-eyed every time. But you have to admit, the words are pretty gruesome, right in the shadow of the guillotine.

Most Americans - at least those beyond school age - encounter The Star-Spangled Banner only at sporting events. And then they don't really sing along, they just start shouting and cheering when it's half over.

Posted by Vulpior (# 12744) on :

I've seen a few comments on this thread and the other one about national anthems being done as solo performance pieces. I'm with those who detest the practice. Our (Australian) anthem is singable, and if you give a crowd a chance you'll get a fair rendition.

The anthem is always sung at football matches in the finals series. For the first three weeks w belt it out as a crowd and then, for the grand final, it's "performed by" someone or other. At least it's typically someone who sings it straight, but we all want to sing it and should be invited/encouraged to join in.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

There's something I love about the epic length of Argentina's anthem. I think it's the way that opposing sports teams fall for the false ending and then look embarrassed when thy move too early,

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

posted by Vulpior

quote:
I've seen a few comments on this thread and the other one about national anthems being done as solo performance pieces. I'm with those who detest the practice.

As far as I'm aware no one's ever been so foolish as to attempt to do that with our (Welsh) anthem [Snigger]

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Vulpior
quote:
I've seen a few comments on this thread and the other one about national anthems being done as solo performance pieces. I'm with those who detest the practice.
As far as I'm aware no one's ever been so foolish as to attempt to do that with our (Welsh) anthem

Though this is a favourite reminder of someone who might've done better just keeping quiet all the way through!

And now for the real thing.

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