Ship of Fools: Darn-diddly darn it! Is this the end of Ned?

Thread: Darn-diddly darn it! Is this the end of Ned? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

It seems as though Harry Shearer is leaving the cast of The Simpsons.

What will become of the characters he's voiced? Can anyone do an "excellent" that will truly be Mr Burns?

But most importantly (for shipmates, maybe), what about Ned Flanders and Reverend Lovejoy? Is it good riddance to the two figures who have done more to misrepresent christianity in the last 25 years than Richard Dawkins or do we wish our fictional brethren a fond farewell?

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
But most importantly (for shipmates, maybe), what about Ned Flanders and Reverend Lovejoy? Is it good riddance to the two figures who have done more to misrepresent christianity in the last 25 years than Richard Dawkins or do we wish our fictional brethren a fond farewell?

Ned and Lovejoy still show occasional flashes of Christian insight, which is more than Dawkins does. But, yes, an interesting conundrum for the programme makers.

Or they could - whisper it diddly softly - just pull the plug, like they should have at least 5 diddly years ago ...

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

More than 5. Shout it loudly.

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :

Simpsons are so yesterday. My nephew, who grew up (if he ever has) with the Simpsons teaches drama and theatre arts and usually starts his classes with a reference to the Simpsons told me last year that his references were drawing blank stares from the young people he teaches.

(They draw blank stares from me, too. I only saw one episode way back when and decided it wasn't worth my time. I'm odd, he says)

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

I really loved the early seasons. "The Simpsons," did satires on everything from beauty pageants to Monster Truck rallies. They covered taxes, Greyhound races, nursing homes, riding lessons, popularity, bullies, salesmen, and a hundred other topics, much of it spot on.

I thought the writers were pretty fair to the Christians. Ned Flanders was corny and worried about it all too much, but he had a huge Christian heart and put up with Homer's abuse with a truly forgiving grace, week after week.

Reverend Lovejoy had a classic preacher's drone when he spoke, but he was kind hearted, too. The only time he was hard on his flock was one Easter, when Homer put a chocolate bunny in the collection plate and he punished the congregation with a reading of Leviticus. His gossipy wife was the only person who fit the stereotype of judgmental Christian.

I'll miss Mr. Burn's hilariously outdated style of corporate rule so much. He was a favorite of mine.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

The Simpsons has definitely gone on for too long, and as it has dragged on, the characters have become caricatures of their old selves. And unfortunately, Flanders went down that road as well. At first, the idea was that this very Christian man was very naive and a little boring, but ultimately a really nice guy and the ideal neighbor; the joke was that Homer hated him even though any reasonable person would love to live next to Ned. I feel like later he became a bit more mean, and a stand-in for the religious right. But overall, I think “classic Ned” will go down as one of the most positive portrayals of a Christian in TV history.

And I think you could argue that Lovejoy is one of the most provocative yet perceptive portrayals of a priest to ever be on TV. Ultimately, he is a guy who is stuck in a mid life existential crisis, based on the fact that he is totally burn out on his job. But that job requires him to advise others when they come to their own existential crisis. I doubt that most of the ordained people here would deny that they have had a moment (or even a few years) where they found themselves in a similar crisis.

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
The Simpsons has definitely gone on for too long, and as it has dragged on, the characters have become caricatures of their old selves. And unfortunately, Flanders went down that road as well.

Tvtropes actually refers to this process as Flanderisation.

Posted by Alyosha (# 18395) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
The Simpsons has definitely gone on for too long, and as it has dragged on, the characters have become caricatures of their old selves. And unfortunately, Flanders went down that road as well. At first, the idea was that this very Christian man was very naive and a little boring, but ultimately a really nice guy and the ideal neighbor; the joke was that Homer hated him even though any reasonable person would love to live next to Ned. I feel like later he became a bit more mean, and a stand-in for the religious right. But overall, I think “classic Ned” will go down as one of the most positive portrayals of a Christian in TV history.

And I think you could argue that Lovejoy is one of the most provocative yet perceptive portrayals of a priest to ever be on TV. Ultimately, he is a guy who is stuck in a mid life existential crisis, based on the fact that he is totally burn out on his job. But that job requires him to advise others when they come to their own existential crisis. I doubt that most of the ordained people here would deny that they have had a moment (or even a few years) where they found themselves in a similar crisis.

If Ned Flanders really was one of the most positive portrayals of a Christian in TV history, the show would be called 'The Flanders' and Ned wouldn't look like such a nerd. It really shows how bad some of the other stereotypes are that Ned Flanders can be seen as relatively positive. Christian heroes are thin on the ground. (And I know I'm being precious).

[ 18. May 2015, 18:39: Message edited by: Alyosha ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Christian heroes. How would you write one? One that was not preaching to the choir, one that was fully real. One that was not heavy-handed?

Posted by Alyosha (# 18395) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Christian heroes. How would you write one? One that was not preaching to the choir, one that was fully real. One that was not heavy-handed?

That's the challenge. But fictional characters don't necessarily have to be fully real. What they have to be is likable to the reader (And not even that since the anti-hero arrived).

But you could read Les Mis. and think that Jean Valjean is unlikable because he is occasionally violent and has a Government based job as Major. Yet he is still the hero and isn't sidelined.

Or take Dostoyevsky's Christian heroes - they are not considered superficial. Naive sometimes, but not superficial.

Characters are fleshed out by what they do and sometimes the things that they say. Give the character faults. Avoid the cliche. Some people will always hate the hero or heroine of any story, but too few people are even trying to write Christian protagonists these days.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Depends on what you mean by 'these days'.
Shepard Book from Firefly and Jed Bartlett from West Wing strike me as fitting your criteria.

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

I believe I've watched every episode since day one. Moe and Lisa, for different reasons, are my favourite characters. Moe, because he is down to earth and Lisa because she is smart.

Never particularly liked Ned, preferred Lovejoy. Ned's kids are so treacly they make me want to vomit!

Posted by Hiro's Leap (# 12470) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alyosha:
Give the character faults. Avoid the cliche. Some people will always hate the hero or heroine of any story, but too few people are even trying to write Christian protagonists these days.

"Rev" is a strong (and flawed) Christian protagonist.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

So is "Granchester," and Hathaway (past seminary student) in the Inspector Lewis mysteries.

"Mad Men," just ended with a big marathon of all the shows and lots of internet talk. I was surprised to hear some people mention the young Catholic priest who tried to help Peggy as a pushy, heavy handed person. To my eyes, he couldn't have been any gentler.

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