Ship of Fools: What Bible Is This?

Thread: What Bible Is This? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=028740

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

Yesterday I subbed for the organist at a neighboring parish. Three services, 8 9 & 11, all Lessons and Carols (at least by title).

The 9 o'clock was obviously their 'family service.' Lots of chatty people and giggly kids in the gallery. At that service the 1st 8 lessons were read from something called 'the SPARK Bible,' of which I had never heard (and hope never to hear again!)

It was sort of like an updated version of the 'bible stories' we used to get in Sunday School. Vague approximations of the narrative and way-over-the-top sappy. One example will suffice: in the Annunciation lesson 'Mary saw a handsome young man in her room, and just KNEW he must be an angel.'

My question: has anybody else experienced this SPARK? And if so what are your thoughts?

The young people reading these lessons had obviously practiced them, and read very well; which is more than I can say for the adults who read at 8 & 11!

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
My question: has anybody else experienced this SPARK?

I haven't and from your brief description, I hope I never do!

Posted by andras (# 2065) on :

Sounds frightful! But when I looked at the SPARK Bible sampler (Google for it!) it seemed to be standard sensible NRSV, with questions and hints added.

Sounds like it had then been rendered into some sort of sub-English by the people in the church!

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by andras:
Sounds like it had then been rendered into some sort of sub-English by the people in the church!

LOL! Kudos to the kids for reading well. I heard once of a teenager who was reading and had Paul describing himself as an apostle to the genitals.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:

'Mary saw a handsome young man in her room, and just KNEW he must be....'

... gay.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

These are apparently its opening words.

quote:
On the first day of creation, the wind of God blew.
WHISH! WOOSH! SWOOSH! God said,
“Let there be light!” CRACKLE! BOOM! BANG!
There was light.
God saw that the light was good.
Then, SPLLLLLITTT! God divided the light and the darkness into day and night.

Not only do I agree with Spike. I think I would have done when I was 9.

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

If you are referring to the SPARK Bible that is being offered in the USA, please note that was written for kids ages 2 to Grade 2. As such it is going to use language that will capture the attention of young children. I would imagine the intent on using this version (actually a paraphrase for kids)was to keep the services at a chidld's level.

Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
The young people reading these lessons had obviously practiced them, and read very well; which is more than I can say for the adults who read at 8 & 11!

Were the readers elementary school age or teenagers?
Were there actually a preponderance of 2-8 year-olds in the congregation?

GG

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:

quote:
Originally posted by andras:
Sounds like it had then been rendered into some sort of sub-English by the people in the church!
LOL! Kudos to the kids for reading well. I heard once of a teenager who was reading and had Paul describing himself as an apostle to the genitals.

I've heard a reading with precisely that issue and it was likewise a young teenager reading (I was even younger at the time).

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

The Spark bibles are from a Lutheran (ELCA) publishing house and are written for Christian Formation programs. There is a Spark NRSV (basically an NRSV bible with lots of student-friendly supplementary material) and a Spark Story Bible, aimed at children from preschool through early elementary grades (as Gramps49 pointed out, above), It certainly sounds like the reading was done from the latter. I have used the Spark Story Bible with the younger children at my church, and I think it's quite good, although -- as the cited passage shows -- it has a tendency to describe good characters as pretty or handsome.

I think it's an unusual choice for use in liturgy -- there are paraphrases that are accessible (CEB, CEV) to many ages.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
it has a tendency to describe good characters as pretty or handsome.

There's certainly a Biblical Tendenz in the same direction: Moses was a beautiful baby and David was quite a looker in his youth too, it seems.

Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on :

Perhaps it is just me with my Safeguarding Officer hat on, but I cannot think it is a very good idea to teach to girls that when a "handsome young man" appears in your room "he must be an angel", particularly when he goes on to say that you are going to have a baby...

Posted by Ahleal V (# 8404) on :

In Church of England circles, the unofficial standard text to use with children and families (and in Godly Play) appears to be the Lion Storyteller's Bible which can be cheaply found on Amazon.

x

AV

[ 30. December 2014, 15:35: Message edited by: Ahleal V ]

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

I suspect in broadcasting terms there is a clash of audience expectation here. For a pantomime aimed at young kids Spark et al are fine. For a liturgical act then no, they're not. It is a question of both the presenters/organizers knowing their aims and intentions and the congregants tuning their expectation.

This applies of course to other contexts too ... in my new pad I am shifting my predecessor's "Celebration of Christmas Stories" (or somesuch) back to what it really was, "Festival of Nine Lessons and Carols." I am doing so not because I am an unregenerate traditionalist but because a silly "rebadging" to attract a "new audience" was a misguided and doomed idea. As part of that shift I am over about three years returning to old KJV and BCP readings to replace the sort of Interim Compromise Biblical Text that was pleasing no-one.

At the same time I am allowing the "Compromise non-Eucharistic Jesussy Story-telling Gathering with Anglican Aplomb and Maximised Tedium" to become both Eucharistic and riotous. Though I used CEV rather than Spark or whatever.

Posted by Galilit (# 16470) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:

'Mary saw a handsome young man in her room, and just KNEW he must be....'

... gay.

Re read your Milton, Venbede!
Paradise Lost, Book 1 lines 423 -432: "For spirits when they please can either sex assume, or both..."
The angel only assumed a male form so as to curtail young Mary's lesbian wonderings as she surveyed (in the privacy of her bedroom during her afternoon nap) the late BC "potential" of stinking fisherman, pale Pharasaical book-worms and unwashed shepherds!

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Total tangent.

That's an interesting midrash. Over on another thread there are straight me decrying the Virgin Birth again with the implication that what a real woman wants is a Real Man.

I haven't the energy to post yet again that the doctrine of the Virgin Birth puts at the centre of Christian revelation that a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

Back to the OP

Sounds ghastly, but the congregation had two other services to go to instead. And congratulations on the children's competent reading.

Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :

Why should anyone assume that Gabriel appeared to Mary as a (specifically) young man?

Posted by Galilit (# 16470) on :

Gabriel was only the Messenger.

In most "art" Gabriel is mighty androgynous

Luke 1:35: "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy..."

Gabriel's attractivness, gender, sexuality, etc are quite irrelevant to Mary's becoming pregnant.

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

I always thought Tilda Swinton made a good Gabriel in Constantine.

As for weird translations, I've only just discovered the bible in Cockney!

[ 04. January 2015, 03:36: Message edited by: Evensong ]

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Why should anyone assume that Gabriel appeared to Mary as a (specifically) young man?

Confusion/elision with the angel-at-the-tomb incident?

Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
As for weird translations, I've only just discovered the bible in Cockney!

And I have two (small Penguin) volumes of The Kiwi Bible, which I've barely dipped into.

quote:
So he said to the bloke with the crook hand, 'Here, gizza decent look at your hand.' Well, believe it or not, when he stuck out his hand it was as good as new! The religious guys were totally cheesed off at that, and they took to their heels...' (from Mark 3)

But strictly, I should say, for personal enjoyment,

GG

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

There is a Klingon Bible. Also a Bible in LOL, which is the dialect that cats use in the captions on I Can Haz Cheezeburger. In that universe, God's name is Ceiling Cat; he is of course white. The devil is a black feline named Basement Cat.

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :

Also Exodus in Yorkshire dialect: 'And God said, "Nay, Lad"'.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

I find it quite easy to believe that God would indeed talk like that! I think that somebody said that Coverdale's psalter (the BCP psalms) sounds even better if you read/ imagine it with a Yorkshire accent.

Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There is a Klingon Bible. Also a Bible in LOL, which is the dialect that cats use in the captions on I Can Haz Cheezeburger. In that universe, God's name is Ceiling Cat; he is of course white. The devil is a black feline named Basement Cat.

And the Holy Spirit is Hovercat – I like that.

GG

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
I find it quite easy to believe that God would indeed talk like that! I think that somebody said that Coverdale's psalter (the BCP psalms) sounds even better if you read/ imagine it with a Yorkshire accent.

My old priest used to give good 'Voice of God' during sermons; he was the son of a Bradford market trader.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

Then there are the Cotton Patch Gospels.

Moo

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
Then there are the Cotton Patch Gospels.

Moo

I once heard a sermon based on the Cotton Patch version of the Good Samaritan, or more specifically the "who is my neighbor?" question in light of Southern culture. Very compelling.

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

Dealing with the Good Samaritan story, I was really stuck how Godspell portrayed the Samaritan as a common drunk. Helped me to see the story in a different light. But this is dating me.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

In vino veritas. Or, as they're discussing somewhere else on the ship, alcohol lowers fear.

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There is a Klingon Bible. Also a Bible in LOL, which is the dialect that cats use in the captions on I Can Haz Cheezeburger. In that universe, God's name is Ceiling Cat; he is of course white. The devil is a black feline named Basement Cat.

This is my favorite passage from LOLCat Bible:

teh catitudes

1 Wen he seez lotz kittehz, he climbz tree. His BFz climbz tree too.

2 He sez hai and he teaches teh kittehs, he sez:

3 Cheezburgrz 4 teh n00b kittehs, theys can has teh Ceiling.

4 Cheezburgrz 4 teh sad kittehs, theys can has petting.

5 Cheezburgrz 4 teh m33k kittehs, theys can has teh urfs.

6 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs who sez "I can has gud, plz?", theys can has it.

7 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs dat no pwns, Ceiling Cat no pwnz0rz thems.

8 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs wiff purr in hartz, theys can sees Ceiling Cat.

9 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs dat sez shhhhh!, Ceiling Cat is liek "u mai kittehs."

10 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs dat gets pwned by otehrs fur haz gud, theys can has teh Ceiling too.

11 Cheezburgrz if otehrs be liek "DO NOT WANT" 2 u, an liez abt u, coz of meh.

12 B teh happys n party, coz u can has cookiez n cakez in Ceiling. Iz liek wen theys been liek "DO NOT WANT" to all teh holee kittehs b4.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0