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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: London
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argona
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# 14037
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Posted
London is a vibrant, creative world city, while the rest of the country slides up its own arse in nostalgic xenophobia.
London is a monstrous parasite, sucking the regions dry.
Extremes of a spectrum, but I hear both ends of it. What do people think?
Posts: 327 | From: Oriental dill patch? (4,7) | Registered: Aug 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
London is a city under occupation, which has been stolen from its people by the global super-rich and the forces of neo-liberal capitalism.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
It's easy to be ambivalent about London. I've always held the views that a) you can buy anything in London, if you know where to look and you have the money, and b) vibrant it may be but it never seems a cheerful city.
If you want culture, it's the place to head. It's got more art galleries and museums than any other city in England, and an unparalleled music and theatre scene. You can have a great time in London, if you have the budget.
Londoners and commuters do complain about the public transport but actually compared to what some of us get in the provinces it's pretty damn good. We don't all have frequent buses, let alone an underground tube network that doesn't usually make you wait more than 5-6 minutes for the next train. Sometimes it might be one bus every Tuesday morning to the nearest big town.
It's a bit of a trade-off. Rural life can be much more connected to the seasons, and move at a slower pace (except for the cars on country roads, but that's another story). I'm glad London's there, but I wouldn't now want to live in it - way overpriced and the time it takes to cross from one side of London to another is roughly equivalent to the time you could spend travelling out of London, to, say, Cambridge, Oxford or Bath.
However, it has been seminal in modern culture with its iconic landmarks. You only have to flash up a picture of a Routemaster or Big Ben and people the world over will associate these with London. Stonehenge, the Blackpool Tower, Birmingham's canals, the Brighton Pavilion come much further down the list. London symbolizes England, though it isn't a true representation.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
Of the top 230,000 square kilometres to be found in the British Isles. London contains nearly 1500.
I've always found it slightly disappointing. Buckingham Palace exterior pretty much sums it up. You have one beautiful view (along the Mall?), but move 100 metres from that line and it fades.
I can see why it's worse going the other way though. The fact it has very comprehensive public transport helps a lot towards that.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
It's both and. It's the very fact that the main museums are there, the galleries are there, this that and the other are there, that makes London the place to be if you can stomach it, and a pain in the arse if you can't and want to live elsewhere, because you either have to hold your nose and live there, or do without those things and live elsewhere.
The problem is that the culture and the opportunities and all that come at a price that is too high for some of us to bear - living in a metropolis, far from the parts of the country we actually value. I'm glad I escaped (I only ever got as far in as Watford, perhaps that's outside the Event Horizon) because if I were in London the Peak District would be a day's travel away, rather than visible from the main road, and the Dales and Lakes very distant. But it's a right pain that to see the NH Museum or the Science Museum (truth be told there are only three cultural icons in that London that interest me - those two and the London Aquarium.) involves a trip into an alien environment where everything costs three times as much.
Fortunately the NRM is in York.
The thought of there being nothing but roads, concrete, houses, offices, urban parks and whatnot (parks are not countryside. They just aren't) for miles in any direction is not unlike my concept of Hell. It's like being shut in a cupboard. For that reason I'd hate to live there (and the fact that if I sold my house here I'd be able to buy a cardboard box in the street there).
AO is completely wrong. The best place in England is Borrowdale.
[ 25. October 2014, 14:53: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
Karl and I pretty much agree on this point.
I like London. It's a wonderful place... to visit.
But no way would I live there. Maybe when I was younger and wanted the buzz of city living then yes, but not now.
And the bestest, bestest place for me is walking the ridge between Lose Hill and Mam Tor, in March before the tourists start to clog it up too much.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Raptor Eye
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# 16649
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Posted
London is the essential vibrant beating heart of the country, that Londoners often think is complete without the remainder of the body and those outside of it often think is a drain on them rather than a feed to them.
It's a human tribal trait to confine ourselves into parochialism.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
London is the essential vibrant beating heart of the country, that Londoners often think is complete without the remainder of the body and those outside of it often think is a drain on them rather than a feed to them.
It's a human tribal trait to confine ourselves into parochialism.
Of course, we could test that theory quite easily. A large wall built on the inner perimeter of the M25 should do it. We also, for the sake of completeness, ought to cut off all electricity, gas and water supplies from the rest of the country going into the walled off area.
Let's see how the heart beats then.
I think the 90% of the country outside the wall will be okay. Not sure about the 10% inside after say five or six years.
It would be a nice experiment don't you think?
Crueller people than I may make comment about filling it with water after building the wall, but I would ask that they don't. It's not nice.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Kitten
Shipmate
# 1179
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Posted
I'm glad London is there and I don't mind the occasional short visit but I'd hate to have to live there
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Maius intra qua extra
Never accept a ride from a stranger, unless they are in a big blue box
Posts: 2330 | From: Carmarthenshire | Registered: Aug 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
I think the problem is that there are careers that only happen there, or are severely limited elsewhere. I'm told publishing is like that. So many national companies have their head offices there. Where's the Halifax Building Society based now? Clue - not in Halifax.
To the extent that it therefore draws people from the rest of the country if their career choices force them to move there, it does leach the rest of the country.
But then again, in some ways we're better off without high flyers. If no-one can afford a half million pound semi then they won't sell for half a million, which is a Good Thing.
Incidentally, can someone define "vibrant"? In what way is it not a euphemism for "loud, busy and crowded"?
[ 25. October 2014, 15:30: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
K:LB: quote:
The best place in England is Borrowdale.
I had to google that. It does look lovely.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I do love London, and have been here for 45 years, although I also live in the country for some of the time. It would be boring to itemize all the things I like in London; anyway, we live near the river, in a very green area, so there are tons of walks and we are near a bird reserve.
Of course, there are negative things. But I miss it a lot when I am away for any length of time. I think I miss all the variety of people more than most things. As I say to my wife, when we visit Kings Lynn, which is a bit dull for me, I'm craving a sight of some Rastas, Orthodox Jews, Muslim women in headscarves, and so on.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
The biggest problem with London is that the rest of England (Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland rather less so these days) is governed as if it were an extension of London. If something's a problem in London, it's deemed to be a problem in the rest of the country. If something isn't a problem in London, the rest of the country can go hang.
A case in point is the current Labour proposal for a "mansion tax" on homes valued over £2million. As soon as it was announced, the cry went up, "But those are quite average houses in London!" Possibly true: but it's also true that you could probably buy about half of Accrington for the same.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
We've all got an ambivalent relationship with that London. Mine's been ambivalent since I first starting visiting it regularly for art galleries and so on from my native South Wales. I still get a pang of excitement and foreboding whenever I pull in on the train ... initially Paddington, of course, later King's Cross (when I lived in Yorkshire) and now Euston ...
I worked there 2 days a week for some months in 2012 and loved it - but then, I was lucky enough to get some great accommodation where I was working ...
Last year, I drove across it - north, south, east and west - for some mystery shopping exercise I did through my freelance work. I had to call into all the London branches of a particular chain of stores and buy (or not) some items. It struck me how vast it was and how diverse - the outer eastern reaches are a completely different world to the wooded Surrey hills the other end.
Normally, though, I'm in Bloomsbury and the studenty bits - or visiting friends out towards Wimbledon or Richmond. There's more than one London. There are lots of Londons. Hoxton is different to Clerkenwell, Southwark different again.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
London is useless. It has been turned into Dubai with better buildings. We need a proper capital: I suggest Huddersfield.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
AO is completely wrong. The best place in England is Borrowdale.
You can have that - it's the Cotswolds for me, and I don't mean the noted tourist spots, I mean those bits off the beaten track that you discover by accident.
(Having said that, Chipping Campden is still a jewel, even if it is full of tourists.)
[ 25. October 2014, 17:21: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
London is a city under occupation, which has been stolen from its people by the global super-rich and the forces of neo-liberal capitalism.
Albertus, and Adeodatus, pinpoint the nub of the debate. Everything else is about personal preference: do you like living in cities or the country?
I loved the 10+ years I spent living in London. I always enjoy trips back there. And I'm glad I live in another vibrant (albeit smaller and poorer) city. But the distortions imposed on London, and hence on the rest of the country, by the great toad of capitalist greed, make life increasingly less tolerable for those on the edge. And that includes the vast army of low-paid workers who struggle to keep essential services going for the rich.
H G Wells's vision of an underground population of exploited workers (in the Time Machine) is not too much of a fantasy.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I only return to London about once a decade (living as I do in the US). I was startled, this last trip, to see how many foreign nameplates plaster everything all over town. Guys, is it cool to have so much of your stuff financed from Dubai? It does make for yummy schwarma, but I wonder about the larger implications for your polity.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
London strikes me as far too densely populated, and too many cars. Otherwise a good place to visit for the upthread-mentioned museums. I also like churches and plays. But most of all to see my daughter.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
I lived in central London for all of my 20s, and I mean central, I lived on City Road at one point. I wasn't a rich capitalist either, I was a nurse living in a nurses' home
I loved living there, at the weekends I would walk to the west end and go window shopping, visit the art galleries and museums, people watch from cafes and would often explore the beautiful architecture of the City of London (lovely at the weekend when it was empty). My church was in Bishopsgate so I got to know the City well and we used to drink in a Sixteenth century coaching inn at London Bridge after the service. The social life and partying was amazing.
I left when I got married though, as I suspected my bipolar disorder would be easier to manage in a calmer place and I was right. But I do miss the diversity, at one point I lived in Bethnal Green and worked at Bow and the population was so vibrant and interesting. My husband to be lived in South London and his church was a great mixtures of races and classes. Cambridge is unbelievably white middle class and I found that quite odd when I moved here, especially as my background is working class.
On cars, very few of my friends actually had cars, my husband and I both could not drive when we left London and I still cannot. With such a great transport system there was no need for us to drive.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I currently live in a very white and middle-class area, and struggle a bit with that - if nothing else, I'd appreciate more diversity of food/takeaways available! I like living around different types of people, it makes life more interesting.
However, you don't need to live in London for diversity, and while I enjoy spending time in London the smaller UK cities (Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Cardiff etc) are just as diverse and much nicer to spend time in I think.
I agree with Angloid and Adeodatus.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
I guess I'm like many here: I do like visiting London, in fact it's one of my favourite places to visit. As much as anything, I just like wandering around the city seeing stuff without too much of a fixed plan of what I'm going to do (in fact, that's one of my favourite things to do in most cities: I spent an academic year in Madrid and quite regularly did huge long walks all around the place).
But living there? Probably not, if I could help it. Maybe I'd get used to it, but I think it'd get too much. And I say that as someone who likes living in cities.
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
As an American who have never visited London, my opinion is of questionable value. Why haven't I visited there? As I understand it, London is one of the most expensive cities in the world for a tourist. If I were to visit London for a week, I might spend as much on lodging, meals and transportation as I might spend elsewhere in the U.K. in a fortnight.
For much the same reason, I've never been to New York city either. I'm sure I would enjoy a visit to either place, until I got the bill.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
Accommodation is expensive in London, but transport is not (if you're organised and have an Oyster card) and food is almost certainly cheaper than it is in most rural areas, though probably not as cheap as other major cities.
As you can probably guess from my location cities are not my thing. Glasgow is more than oppressive enough for me and I rarely have to spend more than a few hours to a day there. London I've visited, as often for demonstrations as anything else. The tube has a certain novelty value, and I feel a certain sense of achievement at navigating my way across the city without getting lost. In general though I can't stand the place. I turned down an offer from UCL for my undergrad almost entirely because I realised I didn't at all like the idea of having to live in London for 4 years. I pity the poor souls whose work leaves them little option but to live in the Great Wen. In many ways I feel about London much the same way as I feel about sewage works or landfill sites. I understand why it's there, I can even admit that it is necessary and useful, but I can't for the life of me fathom why anyone would want to go near it unless they absolutely had to. I rejoice that I live somewhere with clean air, beautiful beaches, more sunshine than anywhere else in the UK and 3 bedroom houses on 1/3 of an acre to be had for less than 150k.
[ 25. October 2014, 21:03: Message edited by: Arethosemyfeet ]
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
I live in the U.S. and I've only visited London once. It had some wonderful things and all of the little bits that I picked up from reading books and watching movies. It was also noisy, crowded and expensive. To me vibrant does mean those things but there's also a pace. London moves at a faster pace than New York but both move more quickly than most other places.
The museums were wonderful, I ended up finding a sweet spot between the theaters, bookstores and restaurants.
Like New York, I suspect a lot of the old interesting bits have been wiped out in the intensification of development. That's the price of a city continuing to grow. A very few cities have continued to grow over many decades and there is always an ongoing loss of old interesting bits.
It was also expensive (although the theater is cheaper than New York) and noisy and had too many lines. That's the price of being where everyone wants to be.
For those who prefer the countryside uncluttered by tourists, isn't London performing the essential task of holding all the tourists so that your favorite spots are not cluttered?
I like the old idea of the season where you go to London and spend the nicer weather in places where the natural landscape can be appreciated.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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PaulTH*
Shipmate
# 320
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Posted
I was brought to London by my parents in early childhood, from the North-Westernmost place in England, and I've been here ever since, almost 60 years. While I'm proud of my Cumbrian roots, I love London with a passion I couldn't put into words. To spend a day walking from Victoria Station to Liverpool St, taking in churches, museums, galleries and a pub or restaurant or two, there's no other place on earth quite like it. Next year I'll be coming to retirement and may have to downsize away from my beloved city. But I'll always come back for as long as I'm able bodied enough to do so. I've visited quite a few capital cities in Europe, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Warsaw, Prague, Brussels and Lisbon. They all have their beauty and attractions, which I've enjoyed in all of them, but there's only one London. King of them all.
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Yours in Christ
Paul
Posts: 6387 | From: White Cliffs Country | Registered: May 2001
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
I adore my adopted city. You can do something different every day for years and never do everything. And lots is free too.
But people don't live 'in London'. They live in their little area. I live about half an hour by tube from Victoria, and yet locals talk about 'going to London' on the rare occasions they do.
I can't go to the shops without seeing at least four people I know. I stop for chats with local market stallholders. There is a thriving community - people look after each other.
I don't really do 'outside' anyway, and if I want to, Kew Gardens is down the road.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
That's a good point. London is villagey, or some parts of it are. For example, I live near Barnes, which has a village pond, with ducks on it! This is also right next to the river, so there are some great walks to be had. Of course, Barnes is very affluent now, so there is that problem.
I have lived in other places which also seem villagey, e.g. Highgate.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
I've lived in London, and enjoyed it. I wish I'd spent more time than I did in all the museums. Now I have kids, I'm glad I live somewhere with more space.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I would love to live there for a while. Not forever, since I can't possibly afford it. But for, say, six months.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
In London where I live there is much noise where they have hospital carrying people and also near me they have been making a place for teenagers who love in learning after secondary school - also noisey!
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London
Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
Worked in Central London for 6 months once (commuting in) and it was refreshing to be able to wander around and find unexpected charm and things I didn't expect (e.g. Suttons' Seeds Shop for my allotment). I also saw most of the galleries in the British Museum in that time.
I lived in suburban South London for 18 months and it was horrible! A 6 mile drive to work took an hour -- he fastest I ever did it was I think, walking, on the day after the great storm of October 1987. Unfriendly people (even in churches), fixated by material stuff.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Abigail
Shipmate
# 1672
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Posted
London is my home. Always has been. I still live in the same area I was born in (it's not a particularly nice area – in fact it's one of the most deprived parts of London.) Moving away is something that has never been possible for me and not really something I would have considered if it had been. London is HOME. This is something most people don't seem to take into account. I don't live here because of the job opportunities, the diversity of the population, the national monuments, the theatres or the museums. I live here because it's my home.
Yes it can be noisy and dirty and crowded but only if you're used to something different – otherwise it's just normal – and there are green spaces (small ones and huge ones) within a short bus or tube ride (or even walk.) Not just the central London parks that tourists and visitors know about but many, many others. And despite everybody's constant moaning the public transport is excellent (I admit to being slightly biased here because now I've reached the magic age of 60 it's also free!)
This is in no way a criticism of anything anybody else has written above, but I do feel frustrated and hurt when people don't seem to realise that there is another side to London. Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent, this is something that’s important to me but I find it hard to put into words.
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The older I get the less I know.
Posts: 505 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2001
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Signaller
Shipmate
# 17495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Abigail:
London is my home. Always has been. I still live in the same area I was born in...
This is in no way a criticism of anything anybody else has written above, but I do feel frustrated and hurt when people don't seem to realise that there is another side to London. Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent, this is something that’s important to me but I find it hard to put into words.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
I'm right with you there. I've spent my whole life in the same part of (outer) London, and I get twitchy if I have to spend more than two weeks beyond walking distance from an Underground station.
Posts: 113 | From: Metroland | Registered: Jan 2013
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Abigail:
London is my home.
...
This is in no way a criticism of anything anybody else has written above, but I do feel frustrated and hurt when people don't seem to realise that there is another side to London. Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent, this is something that’s important to me but I find it hard to put into words.
Not incoherent that's how it should be for you.
The shires are my home and I feel much the same way about them. Even to the point that actually it's in London I notice the lack of foreign voices/faces (despite the numbers theoretically being against it).
The thing is I shouldn't be forced to feel the same way about London, and that's reinforced by our museum artifacts being pinched for the London museum and all the little things like that.
Even the public transport is based around the idea that I should want to go to London not my county town. And hence that they shouldn't do too many plays, etc...
Whereas there's not really much the other way.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
London is strange in that it is a series of villages and small towns that all grew in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to become the massive metropolis it is now. Ask any native born Londoner where they're from and it's unlikely they'll say "London" but rather the area of London they're from. Apart from travelling into central London, most Londoners tend not to stray far from their own area, and whichever side of the river you're from, the other side is like a foreign country. In many ways, London is rather like a small country rather than a city or even a county.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
That's very true. I dread going to north London now, although I used to live there. I am ensconced now near the river, and south west London is my domain. Finsbury Park - where the hell is that?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
London is strange in that it is a series of villages and small towns that all grew in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to become the massive metropolis it is now. Ask any native born Londoner where they're from and it's unlikely they'll say "London" but rather the area of London they're from. Apart from travelling into central London, most Londoners tend not to stray far from their own area, and whichever side of the river you're from, the other side is like a foreign country. In many ways, London is rather like a small country rather than a city or even a county.
Aren't all cities like that?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Jay-Emm
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# 11411
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Posted
I'd have thought most were. Definitely counties are. The West Midland's and Northern group still have very strong identities at 'city' level as well.
Though London does have an element of inside outness which benefits it, I think from Westminster,Southwark & London expanding from so close. The 'center' isn't really in either but joins them up. Whereas I think most of the other cities don't do that to that extent, either the gap is too large or one proto-city dominated.
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
London is strange in that it is a series of villages and small towns that all grew in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to become the massive metropolis it is now. Ask any native born Londoner where they're from and it's unlikely they'll say "London" but rather the area of London they're from. Apart from travelling into central London, most Londoners tend not to stray far from their own area, and whichever side of the river you're from, the other side is like a foreign country. In many ways, London is rather like a small country rather than a city or even a county.
Aren't all cities like that?
Possibly, but to a lesser extent.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Darllenwr
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# 14520
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Posted
With all due deference to those who live there and think London wonderful, I tend to agree with my father, who remarked that everybody should live in London at some time in their life, because only that way would they really appreciate living somewhere else.
I lived somewhat outside London (Egham) for 4 years. That was quite close enough, thank you very much. And this from somebody who was dragged up on the edge of the West Midlands conurbation.
I recall spending a weekend with friends living in Blackheath. The overriding memory is one of claustrophobia - the feeling of being imprisoned by mile upon mile of houses. And, no, parks and gardens do not make any difference. Where I was brought up, from our front windows I could see the ridge of farmland at Ounty John Lane, less than a mile away and the start of genuinely open country. Where I live now, there are no houses behind us, just the open valley stretching away towards Rhymney. I just cannot cope with being enclosed by houses.
As to the effect of London on the rest of the country, I think it was said very well up-thread: if it's a problem in London, it's a problem, if it isn't a problem in London, it doesn't exist.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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St. Gwladys
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# 14504
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Posted
As Darllenwr said, we were at university at Egham, about 20 miles out of London, and a pleasant small town. As we werwe so close, I went into London several times, and my overwhelming memory is of how dirty it was - I'd come back with dirt in my eyelids.
A good friend of mine moved to London shortly after leaving school, and moved back to our town about 4 years ago. I asked her if she missed living in London - she said that of course she missed the art galleries and the culture, but she did't miss the noise and unfriendliness. We live in a town, not in the depths ofthe countryside, but generally, there's not a lot of noise at night - no screaming sirens or people shouting!
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"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I lived in London (St John's Wood) for 4 years and loved it.
But I think it's a young person's city. I can't imagine being old and trying to get around it.
I live on the edge of a town now, right next to many country parks, woods, moors, lakes and rivers - I wouldn't swap for the world!
[ 26. October 2014, 14:24: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Pine Marten
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# 11068
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
That's very true. I dread going to north London now, although I used to live there. I am ensconced now near the river, and south west London is my domain. Finsbury Park - where the hell is that?
Finsbury Park is where I live ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) - I was born and brought up in (the other end of) Islington. I love London and sometimes I detest it. I love going to visit my friend in the country, where it is cleaner and has many attractions, but the transport can be diabolical - if the miss the, say, 4pm bus to XX, you can't get home. It has its irritations but my local transport is terrific, on the whole.
I love the cinemas, theatres and galleries. My friend has hardly any of these where she lives.
But what enraged me the other day was seeing adverts for houses just around the corner, going for over £1,000,000 ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) Complete and obscene lunacy! No wonder my kids can't afford to live here.
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
London is strange in that it is a series of villages and small towns that all grew in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to become the massive metropolis it is now. Ask any native born Londoner where they're from and it's unlikely they'll say "London" but rather the area of London they're from. Apart from travelling into central London, most Londoners tend not to stray far from their own area, and whichever side of the river you're from, the other side is like a foreign country. In many ways, London is rather like a small country rather than a city or even a county.
Aren't all cities like that?
Possibly, but to a lesser extent.
Hmmm, how many other big cities have you lived in, and for how long? Given I can name small towns where people will tell you the end of the town they're from rather than the town...
As with many things, Powell & Pressburger nailed London in 1943:
"a long street, with every house a different kind of sadness"
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Hmmm, how many other big cities have you lived in, and for how long? Given I can name small towns where people will tell you the end of the town they're from rather than the town...
I've lived in three capital cities, and had family in London. It might be a generalization but cities often seem to fall into two halves - north v south or east v west. Within those there are the districts, and these do tend to have their own characters. Some originate from villages that were subsumed into the metropolis, others might be predominantly ethnic or religious areas.
It's just the way things are: historically, during periods of immigration, the later arrivals would usually want to be near earlier ones who spoke their own language, had speciality shops that sold familiar produce that wasn't native to the country they were now in, etc etc.
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
That's very true. I dread going to north London now, although I used to live there. I am ensconced now near the river, and south west London is my domain. Finsbury Park - where the hell is that?
Finsbury Park is where I live - I was born and brought up in (the other end of) Islington. I love London and sometimes I detest it. I love going to visit my friend in the country, where it is cleaner and has many attractions, but the transport can be diabolical - if the miss the, say, 4pm bus to XX, you can't get home. It has its irritations but my local transport is terrific, on the whole.
I love the cinemas, theatres and galleries. My friend has hardly any of these where she lives.
But what enraged me the other day was seeing adverts for houses just around the corner, going for over £1,000,000 Complete and obscene lunacy! No wonder my kids can't afford to live here.
Where I live, houses are 2/3 million, eek. I'm not sure how I ended up in one. I actually go through Finsbury Park quite frequently, and it is a buzz, a real mix of nations and styles and eccentricity.
I have to get out of London periodically, and go and stare at empty fields and skies, but like a drug, it pulls me back.
"Earth hath not anything to show more fair:
Dull would he be of soul who could pass by
A sight so touching in its majesty
This City now doth, like a garment, wear
The beauty of the morning; silent, bare,
Ships, towers, domes, theatres and temples lie
Open unto the fields, and to the sky."
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Horseman Bree
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# 5290
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Posted
I did my PGCE year at University of London King's College in the mid-60s and enjoyed living more-or-less downtown.
But that year cured me of ever wanting to live in a city again.
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It's Not That Simple
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
I'm still struggling to work out what "vibrant" and "buzz" mean in this context. And, if I can establish what they are, I'd want to examine why they're Good Things.
Incidentally, how often do you Londoners go to these theatres and museums? It's not exactly as if I go to every play at the Pomegranate as it is*; I'm not sure how having more theatres would be much different! Where do you find the time? My time is already full without having them so I just don't see what the benefit would be.
*Actually, I'm not sure when I last went. Probably years ago.
[ 27. October 2014, 11:58: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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