Ship of Fools: Deano and Muslims

Thread: Deano and Muslims Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

Rather than allow Deano to totally derail the Clarkson thread and make it all about him, here's a new thread where he can be the centre of attention.

Deano, you say here that you don't like Muslims, but as they are not a race, that doesn't make you racist.

OK I can go along with your case that they're not a separate race, but even so, to dismiss an entire group of people simply because you "don't like" them may not be racist, but is still blinkered, narrow minded prejudice.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Rather than allow Deano to totally derail the Clarkson thread and make it all about him, here's a new thread where he can be the centre of attention.

Deano, you say here that you don't like Muslims, but as they are not a race, that doesn't make you racist.

OK I can go along with your case that they're not a separate race, but even so, to dismiss an entire group of people simply because you "don't like" them may not be racist, but is still blinkered, narrow minded prejudice.

Doesn't alter my opinion of deano much. Let's say his choice of football team is the best thing about him.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Elsewhere, Deano blatherered:

quote:

No it doesn't. It implies that some muslims in some parts of English towns are themselves incredibly racist.

Or rather it might, if you'd bothered to actually back up your assertion about "no whites" signs in British towns when called on your bullshit. Which you didn't.

[ 23. March 2015, 20:30: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

deano evidently gets his information from Fox News. Shouldn't be surprised really.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

So, picking up from where I left off on the Clarkson thread

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Well, I would like to know what you meant by this.

quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Alan. I don't like muslims.

OK, so you don't like Muslims. What the Hell does that have to do with the Japanese? Unless you also don't like Shinto and Buddhism.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

There's a handy hint. Any religion that doesn't get a capital letter on it's name, that's deano's way of putting the boot in.

It's a particularly neat bit of wankery because is just looks like deano is one of those typists who forgets about the shift key. Until you notice that Christians still manage to get a capital 'C'.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

And, he does it to himself. Which is definite proof of wankery.

Posted by Teufelchen (# 10158) on :

The 'not racist' line would cut a lot more ice if deano wasn't (apparently) an old white guy in a country where most Muslims are non-white.

But then deano is a troll as much as he's a lazy racist, so whatever.

t

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

deano's not that old - born 1967, so he's ten years younger than me. He's barely out of Young Fogeydom.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

deano likes thinking in stereotypes. It saves wear and tear on his two brain cells to keep everything binary.

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
deano's not that old - born 1967, so he's ten years younger than me. He's barely out of Young Fogeydom.

From watching Tea Party Republicans in action, I'm sure it can be proven scientifically that persons of his persuasion age much faster than ordinary people. I'd guess at a political age of about 90 in this case - well past the onset of normal healthy curmudgeonry.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

I suppose you don't have to like Muslims, any more than you have to like any other group of people who believe or do things you disapprove of. But if you've never met any that are even moderately likeable then you probably haven't met very many, in which case your sentiments are not much use to anyone else.

But multicultural Britain is becoming increasingly segregated these days. In my city I've noticed over the decades that white 'Christians' and brown Muslims are having less and less to do with each other. This might not be specifically about being racist or anti-Muslim, but the outcome will be that people will end up not knowing or understanding each other, and it'll be easier to turn to stereotypes and to make these sweeping statements about groups of people who are different.

Conversely, for some people perhaps it's easier to love your Muslim 'neighbour' when he lives far away from your pretty village or your elegant suburb!

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

I hereby nominate Deano as the space monkey to send to this other universe.

Link: Scientists at Large Hadron Collider hope to make contact with PARALLEL UNIVERSE outside of our own.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

And, if there's intelligent life there do you want then to think that deano is representative of us, or even worse representative of the rest of us?

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Talk about inter-stellar incident!

[Paranoid]

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

"I don't like aliens. They come in lots of species so it's not speciesist."

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :

Alan. I don't like deano.

Posted by jbohn (# 8753) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Alan. I don't like deano.

Wankerist! [Biased]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Alan. I don't like deano.

Eh?

Are you addressing me to say you don't like deano? Join the club.

Or, are you declaring my views on deano? Very perceptive.

Well, to be precise I don't like the vile shit deano spouts on these boards. But, this is Hell where the rules allow me to be flexible with the truth and say I don't like the person who spouts vile shit.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Um, I think he's imitating Deano's post that started this whole thing.

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :

I was attempting to "fix" deano's original statement

quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Alan. I don't like muslims.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

I don't like Mondays.

Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :

I like The Wizard of Oz.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
I like The Wizard of Oz.

But who do feel most sympathy for: the lion with no courage or the tin man with no brain.

[ 24. March 2015, 13:42: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
I like The Wizard of Oz.
But who do feel most sympathy for: the lion with no courage or the tin man with no brain.

Scarecrow had no brain--the tin man was heartless. I think both equally apply to deano.

PS - I was referring to this scene from "A Christmas Story".

Posted by irish_lord99 (# 16250) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Alan. I don't like deano.
Wankerist!

Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :

Perhaps Deano simply made a typo and doesn't like muslin.

John

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

Rather strained humour there.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I don't like deano's opinions on the Ship much either, but I do have a question: does not liking a particular race make you racist?

I think I have much stronger definition of racism. In my Social Psychology classes, I've learned the following scale of increasing severity, which I find rather helpful.

Stereotype: We have to be careful with them, but they're not always negative. For example: "A Brazilian will usually try to hug you when he meets you." Also, it still acknowledges that this isn't true for all Brazilians.

Prejudice: A stereotype that is always negative, and that doesn't leave room for exceptions anymore. Example: "He's Maroccan, so he's prone to violence."

Discrimination: Actively treating people differently because of their race / etnicity. "No Turks allowed in my shop."

Racism: The conviction that your race is superior than another, and that they can systematically be excluded because of this.

Fascism: A certain political-economical system that existed (exists?) in certain countries, based on racism.

I'm not sure if this system is accurate, or even if it makes sense. I surely find it helpful sometimes.

I think I would put a statement like "I don't like Muslims" on the Prejudice step of this scale. Deano may well be racist, but I'm not sure if saying "I don't like Muslims" by itself makes him one. After all, I don't think there is a rule saying that he has to like anyone.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Rather strained humour there.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

LeRoc

Interesting breakdown, that. I suppose it's all vitiated to a degree, since there are no such thing as races. I suppose Muslims tend to be brown and have unpleasant names like Al-Ghazali, although indeed there are white ones.

Fear and dislike of difference, maybe. I wonder if racists are more likely to be sexist? (More difference).

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
quetzalcoatl: I suppose it's all vitiated to a degree, since there are no such thing as races.

I don't agree with this. It is true that there is no biological basis for the definition of races, but I do believe that they exist as social constructs.

For example, my black friends in Brazil define someone to be black if two conditions are fulfilled:

(S)he considers him/herself to be black.
The black community accepts him/her as black.

In fact, I have some black friends here whose skin is almost as light as mine.

I find that this definition validly defines race.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:
quetzalcoatl: I suppose it's all vitiated to a degree, since there are no such thing as races.
I don't agree with this. It is true that there is no biological basis for the definition of races, but I do believe that they exist as social constructs.

For example, my black friends in Brazil define someone to be black if two conditions are fulfilled:
(S)he considers him/herself to be black.
The black community accepts him/her as black.
In fact, I have some black friends here whose skin is almost as light as mine.

I find that this definition validly defines race.

That's interesting as I assume that some racists try to define race biologically; I don't know if there are 'social construct' racists. But maybe Deano doesn't dislike 'muslims' as such, but his own image of them.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

I have met people who accept there is no real biological differnce in the different groups but still have prejudice against certain groups. "Their colour doesn't cause the problem, their culture does and most of them inherit (trait xyz) from their upbringing".
So they are functionally racist despite understanding at least that much biology.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
quetzalcoatl: That's interesting as I assume that some racists try to define race biologically; I don't know if there are 'social construct' racists. But maybe Deano doesn't dislike 'muslims' as such, but his own image of them.

It is also why I don't accept "It's not racism because Islam is a religion!" as a defence. Both racial and religious groups are social constructs.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:
quetzalcoatl: That's interesting as I assume that some racists try to define race biologically; I don't know if there are 'social construct' racists. But maybe Deano doesn't dislike 'muslims' as such, but his own image of them.
It is also why I don't accept "It's not racism because Islam is a religion!" as a defence. Both racial and religious groups are social constructs.

Not in the same way. A religion is a set of beliefs, generally self-applied. Race is a set of characteristics generally applied from the outside.
But racism is not based upon a deep logic.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
lilBuddha: Not in the same way. A religion is a set of beliefs, generally self-applied. Race is a set of characteristics generally applied from the outside.

You're right, they are not the same thing. But I see no moral difference between feeling superior to one socially constructed group and another kind of socially constructed group.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
I was attempting to "fix" deano

Trying to fix deano is a futile exercise.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Oh, I dunno. I know this good vet, see...

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

you know someone who can get the poor lamb chopped?

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Rather strained humour there.

Kill me now.

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
I was attempting to "fix" deano
Trying to fix deano is a futile exercise.

We had our dog fixed.
And he's not racist.

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

Dammit, how did I miss the last 3 posts?
This is why I mostly lurk.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Given his stated age in his profile, it is highly likely that any damage he may do to the gene pool has already been done. Hopefully, for the sake of any children he has, being an arsehole isn't genetic.

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

As a father of good children, it is not.
Wait a minute...
That's why they don't look....

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

I've often thought that instead of fleeing from multicultural areas (many of which in some cities are heavily Muslim) white non-Muslims would be doing their children a favour by getting them accustomed to living and working among a demographic that's in the ascendant in the UK. These parents are missing a trick, it seems to me.

A white, Christian politician who really understood and felt comfortable in Muslim communities, perhaps having learned Arabic or Urdu at school, would be in a great position to pick up Muslim votes. The Conservative Party especially would love more Muslim supporters, but how many of their politicians have any experience of living among and really getting to know ordinary, non-billionaire Muslims?

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
As a father of good children, it is not.
Wait a minute...
That's why they don't look....

They take after their mother, that's all.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I have met people who accept there is no real biological differnce in the different groups but still have prejudice against certain groups. "Their colour doesn't cause the problem, their culture does and most of them inherit (trait xyz) from their upbringing".
So they are functionally racist despite understanding at least that much biology.

When I lived in Chicago, I knew a man from Nigeria who was in town going to seminary. He said one day he was being followed by a trio of pretty threatening-looking white guys. They overtook him and started harrassing him, and he said something like, "What have I done to you, that you treat me like this?"

As soon as they heard his Nigerian brogue, they apologized, said, "Our fight isn't with you," and left him.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
The Conservative Party especially would love more Muslim supporters, but how many of their politicians have any experience of living among and really getting to know ordinary, non-billionaire Muslims?

Or, ordinary non-billionaire people of any religion or none.

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:

A white, Christian politician who really understood and felt comfortable in Muslim communities, perhaps having learned Arabic or Urdu at school, would be in a great position to pick up Muslim votes. The Conservative Party especially would love more Muslim supporters, but how many of their politicians have any experience of living among and really getting to know ordinary, non-billionaire Muslims?

There's a very famous occasion where (I think) the Socialist Workers Party attempted to sting Enoch Powell by confronting him with a group of Muslim first generation immigrants in his Wolverhampton constituency. Unfortunately the SWP hadn't picked up on the fact that Powell was in fact, er, fluent in Urdu.

So he bypassed the SWP's tame interpreter, had a long chat with the group, listened to their grievances, and turned the whole confrontation into essentially a tea party.

So it can be done, even from very unexpected quarters.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

Thanks. I see from Wiki that Powell learnt Urdu at university because he wanted to become viceroy of India, so gaining a political advantage was clearly the issue for him too.

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :

What have you lot got against wankers? I see the term has been used disparagingly at least three times on the last page alone. Is that not redlining them?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

First they came for the wankers, but I did not speak up, because I was not ... um .. I mean ... well, I didn't speak up.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

SOL

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

Was there actually a point to those three letters, or were you just engaging in thread necromancy on an idiotic or intoxicated whim?

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

According to the Urban Dictionary SOL = Shit Outta Luck. But is Martin that hip?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

SOL has meant shit out of luck since at least 1979 because that's when I learned it.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
But is Martin that hip?

Martin is a middle aged dad, demonstrating his street cred. In front of his son's friends.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

He'll start dancing in a minute. He won't know what the tune is, but it'll have a good beat...

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

Martin Dancing

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

I'm so hip I've got scoliosis. Snort Out Loud. The penultimate in approbation.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Then what are the ultimate and antepenultimate?

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

LOL & WOL

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
LOL & WOL

WTF?

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

It was funny, for a very brief moment.

That moment has passed...

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
LOL & WOL
WTF?

If the question is about WOL, I looked it up. It's "wow out loud".

Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on :

LOL means Laugh Out Loud but is so over-used that these days nobody has actually laughed out loud when they write it. So if vocal merriment is actually expressed should we start using LOLOL?

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

I ONLY use LOL WHEN I actually LOL.

WOL: Wheeze Out Loud.

mousethief: I was amused. I know we un-cordially loathe each other, but I was amused.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

IME, some people do use LOLOL and longer versions, but when the laughter/humor is more pronounced.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

LMAO. LTTTRDMTL.

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

this is JUST STUPID lol i think i'm going to CLOSE it soon LOLOL

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Just make sure you close it with Lots Of Love. I guess no one uses LOL for that anymore.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

ITTWACW

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
LOL means Laugh Out Loud but is so over-used that these days nobody has actually laughed out loud when they write it. So if vocal merriment is actually expressed should we start using LOLOL?

It means the user found something funny. It is, ironically, a less ambiguous term than the statement it represents.
Even so, whilst many have not actually emitted an audible signal, it is not necessarily an indication of a lower level of amusement.
Reading is an internal process so the external signs of this process are often muted. Verbal communication is an outward process so that external signals are often amplified. So a written LOL is no less accurate.

[ 15. April 2015, 15:59: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

More than a few years ago when I worked in Edinburgh, LOL meant only one thing; one of the most fearsome of road hazards - little old ladies. Many of them could not walk and hold an animated conversation at the same time, often resulting in close calls when they crossed the street in pairs. There were little old men too, but they were mostly driving. If I was back there now, I'd be one.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Ariston, I give up. What's JUST STUPID an acronym for?

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

It's not an acronym. It's me shouting.

THIS THREAD IS STUPID.

IT WAS BUMPED FOR NO REASON.

I'M GOING TO CLOSE IT.

—ARISTON, HELLHOST

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