Ship of Fools: Shut up and wait for it!

Thread: Shut up and wait for it! Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Raptor Eye (# 16649) on :

Ever so gently I reach out to a friend who has been damaged by the hellfire and damnation brigade at a vulnerable age. Very slowly the barriers are coming down, so that I can at least talk about my own faith at times without him changing the subject.

Then the friend sees a man push a leaflet into a woman's hands. When she tries to pull away and tells him she's not interested, he shouts 'Jesus loves you anyway!'

'Religious nut' thinks my friend. I'm back to square one.

There's a time and a place to tell people about our faith. I'm not convinced that it's ever to try to force people to listen.

All I'm saying is, if it isn't the right time and place, you're doing the opposite to what you intend to do, so for God's sake

SHUT UP!

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

And one of the places which in my book is a big NO NO is my doorstep.

A friend once pointed out that in the Gospels, Jesus is never seen in a private house unless he has been invited first. Basic courtesy IMHO.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

Tangent alert

Raptor Eye, It's possible that by being a friend you are doing all that's necessary. Faith works best by demonstration. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the first words on the subject should probably come from your friend rather than from you.

End tangent

In the meantime, my temper goes from 0 to 90 in a nanosecond when anyone tries to preach to me personally, or enquire about my soul, my relationship with Jesus or whether I would like to avoid Hell. [Mad]

[ 21. May 2015, 12:03: Message edited by: jacobsen ]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

"If you're so interested in people avoiding Hell, why are you here putting people through Hell with your hectoring?"

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
A friend once pointed out that in the Gospels, Jesus is never seen in a private house unless he has been invited first. Basic courtesy IMHO.

Though he has been known to invite himself in the first place. Okay, Zacchaeus could have said "no".

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

I invited the last lot of JWs who called, inside for a bible study. It was mutually respectful, once they realised I was asking them about being 'Arian' as opposed to 'Aryan'...

[Smile]

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
And one of the places which in my book is a big NO NO is my doorstep.

Speaking as a non-believer, the only real problem I have with door-to-door preaching is that I tend to sleep more during the day than at night, so it disrupts my sleep to have people ringing my bell in the mid-morning to early afternoon. Other than that, it doesn't really bother me.

Years ago, I had JWs waking me up on what seemed like a weekly basis, so I finally got a sign made up that said, in Korean, "I do not want to talk to Jehovah's Witnesses!" It pretty much solved the problem, except for a few recalcitrants. For example...

-A pair of JWs who didn't read the sign.

-Some Buddhists from the temple down the road who apparently thought that I was cool with being woken up by other religions.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
I invited the last lot of JWs who called, inside for a bible study. It was mutually respectful, once they realised I was asking them about being 'Arian' as opposed to 'Aryan'...

Years ago in Canada, I invited some JWs in to chat, inspired by a friend who had previously been able to get some of them to admit that, were it not for the supposedly evil Constantine, the gospel would not likely have survived as public knowledge.

I had less luck, and within a few minutes, had lost an argument about whether the Bible teaches a literal Hell. Of course, being JWs, they were on the negative side of the debate. Kind of the anti-Fire And Brimstone preachers.

[ 21. May 2015, 15:24: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

You can't get a generic sign in Korea that says "No solicitations please"? You can buy one at any home improvement store out here.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
You can't get a generic sign in Korea that says "No solicitations please"? You can buy one at any home improvement store out here.

For reasons that are vague to me now, at the time, I wanted to indicate JWs specifically. Maybe I had heard stories of them ignoring "No solicitation" signs, I dunno.

As I recall, I didn't have a lot of other non-authorized solicitations in those days.

[ 21. May 2015, 15:33: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Responses I've entertained to the intrusive evangelizers include, yes, I know Jesus, he's Cuban isn't he?

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

How about this one-size-fits-all classic?

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
How about this one-size-fits-all classic?

Then you'll have some group that doesn't recognize the cross as a Christian symbol(eg. the JWs) claiming that they thought the sign wasn't directed at them.

And that plea would be only a slight exaggeration from the real-world "But I'm not talking about religion, I'm talking about Jesus!"

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

There was a scene in "South Park" when a hellfire and brimstone missionary knocked on the door of a space alien and gave forth. The alien said, "That's nice--now please leave".
[Snigger]

Some people trade their own tracts with the person at the door. Of course, these could be about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Bible-based recipes (they exist!), or how to become a couch potato...

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Some people trade their own tracts with the person at the door. Of course, these could be about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Bible-based recipes (they exist!), or how to become a couch potato...

I heard of an Episcopal priest who used to clean out his church's tract rack and take the old, out-of-date tracts with him when going to the airport. The Moonies or Hare Krishnas would approach him with their literature, and he'd give them a leaflet on, for example, How to Make an Advent Wreath.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Winner of the All-time Biscuit for Social Fail was the chap (with hovering acolytes) who rang my doorbell. I was in the bath, and only went down because I thought bf - who'd nipped out - had forgotten his keys.

I think it was the level of self-absorption - how could someone dripping wet, standing barefoot in only a towel and dressing gown in the open air not want to listen to him talking theology?

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

JWs are not allowed to take other people's tracts. I tried with a couple who approached me outside the Friends' Meeting House. (Kingdom Hall is just across the road.) I also explained that their literature* was wrong about what Quakers believed and taught, and they assured me that their HQ would not make mistakes.

I became very angry with the locals when a couple came calling the morning after a neighbour had committed suicide, and I advised them very strongly not to go and knock where the young woman's parents were dealing with the situation. And they did.

* previously read - school caretaker had given me a stack of Watchtowers

Posted by Raptor Eye (# 16649) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
Tangent alert

Raptor Eye, It's possible that by being a friend you are doing all that's necessary. Faith works best by demonstration. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the first words on the subject should probably come from your friend rather than from you.

End tangent

In the meantime, my temper goes from 0 to 90 in a nanosecond when anyone tries to preach to me personally, or enquire about my soul, my relationship with Jesus or whether I would like to avoid Hell.

I would really like to be able to talk about my faith to my friends without them changing the subject as if I'm going to try to convert them. It's an important aspect of my life. I should be able to freely talk about it, without waiting for them to bring it up first. Within reason.

Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Some people trade their own tracts with the person at the door. Of course, these could be about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Bible-based recipes (they exist!), or how to become a couch potato...
I heard of an Episcopal priest who used to clean out his church's tract rack and take the old, out-of-date tracts with him when going to the airport. The Moonies or Hare Krishnas would approach him with their literature, and he'd give them a leaflet on, for example, How to Make an Advent Wreath.

I often turn the tables on JWs and ask them if they'd like to join the Church of England.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

Well, RE, maybe their needs trump yours, if hearing about your faith makes them so uncomfortable. Why try to force a conversation on them? Don't you have anyone in your life who is happy to hear about your faith?

My own take on religion is that it's something you do, rather than talk about. Maybe my own faith is on the vague side, which is one reason why I'm comfortable with not trying to define it. Maybe I rather go with St.Paul, who wrote that when doing a good deed, your right hand should not know what your left is up to.(Rare agreement with St.Paul, here.) I know too many people who seem to be all talk. It's no advertisement for faith.

Probably I could listen to a friend talk about their faith, provided I didn't feel bombarded by it, but I'm not up for a faith talk-fest.

Posted by Raptor Eye (# 16649) on :

I know where you're coming from, and I do find it frustrating when people can't stop themselves from opening their mouths, hence the thread to vent off my irritation.

I'm not trying to share my faith with this friend as much as feel as if I can freely tell him where I've been and what I've been doing without having to leave out so much.

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :

We have a right ole Ranting Preacher whose pitch is outside a major clothing store and right opposite a city centre tram stop.

How to respond to this nonsense?

I tend to ignore bad behaviour and give it no audience, but people are held captive waiting for the tram.
Do we heap burning coals and buy the guy endless cake in the hope that his mouth is busy elsewhere?
Should other Christians try and engage him in conversation?
Officially complain?

Hope to goodness that he's not on here and recognises himself.......?

I my wildest dreams i drag a soap box next to him and for five minutes go head to head.......then i wake up.

[ 27. May 2015, 11:33: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
I'm not trying to share my faith with this friend as much as feel as if I can freely tell him where I've been and what I've been doing without having to leave out so much.

This IS a pain--I hate having to leave out most of what I've been doing or cast around for more socially acceptable terms because someone's delicate ears will be offended by the mere mention of Christianity. I used to have to do with my father when I was a teenager--now I just won't do it because I'm tired of it, and they can grow up. Or avoid me, I suppose. But anyone who asks me on Monday what I did yesterday is going to hear the word "church" (horrors!) and can just suck it up. I'm not going to refer to it as a social action group or something.

Posted by Chesterbelloc (# 3128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
Maybe I rather go with St.Paul, who wrote that when doing a good deed, your right hand should not know what your left is up to.(Rare agreement with St.Paul, here.)

I hate to rob you of a special moment with the Holy Apostle of the Gentiles, but it was some other guy who said that (about almsgiving). [Razz]

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:

quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
Maybe I rather go with St.Paul, who wrote that when doing a good deed, your right hand should not know what your left is up to.(Rare agreement with St.Paul, here.)
I hate to rob you of a special moment with the Holy Apostle of the Gentiles, but it was some other guy who said that (about almsgiving).

Sometimes you have to pretend it was Paul because some evangelicals won't accept anything if only Jesus said it. Has to come from Paul.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

Well blow me down. Back to near total dislike of St. Paul.

It is worth considering, however, that many people, possibly because of negative experiences in their youth, shut down when religion is mentioned.

[ 28. May 2015, 12:17: Message edited by: jacobsen ]

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