quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:

I’m mightily annoyed that Han Solo got killed off *snip* Solo was also supposed be a giant skeptic of ancient weapons and hokey religion. Felt a bit off to me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I’m mightily annoyed that Han Solo got killed off because he was always my favourite character and it won’t be the same without him.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sparrow:

quote:

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I’m mightily annoyed that Han Solo got killed off because he was always my favourite character and it won’t be the same without him.

---

Haven't seen it yet ... but of course in this kind of movie there are loads of ways to bring him back/he's not really dead.

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I'm not sure that's true with Star Wars. The only people who come back are Jedi who are able to maintain a post death existence as 'force ghosts'. Everyone else tend to stay dead.

[ 17. December 2015, 16:36: Message edited by: Jack o' the Green ]
 

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Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
I am posting randomly because I want the spoiler that appeared on the 'todays active threads' forum summary page to disappear and not ruin it for anyone besides me.


 

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Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
It did say "spoiler?"
 

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Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
Yes, but in the display on "today's active threads" page, the actual spoiler was displayed. This one: http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_daily
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
There's more than one way to access the threads on the board. If you choose to use Active Threads, you have to accept that you get a preview that you have no control over.

The film is out; discussion is legitimate, and anyone not wishing to know needs to avoid this thread.
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
There was a lot of cheering in the theater I attended tonight. There was also a lot of laughing. Unfortunately I missed some of the dialogue right after the funny parts. So, I'll just have to go again, won't I?

There were some "we've seen this before" aspects to the movie, but it was so well done, and the spirit of the story reminded me of the magic of A New Hope.

During the time of waiting, I have to admit I was disappointed to learn that the canon of the books attached to the Star Wars universe was to be disregarded. The people and stories from the books have been my old friends for a long time. (There does seem to be a nod to them, though.) These new people are very worthy of the present saga, however! Did anyone else think that Rey looks like Padme?
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by jedijudy:

There were some "we've seen this before" aspects to the movie, but it was so well done, and the spirit of the story reminded me of the magic of A New Hope.

---

quote:

---

Did anyone else think that Rey looks like Padme?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by jedijudy:
Did anyone else think that Rey looks like Padme?

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Why shouldn't she look like her grandmother?
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Firenze:
You do realise this thread is Very Unfair on the Hosts, don't you?

---

Could you not ask jedijudy to be responsible for hosting it? I mean, what were the chances she hadn’t seen it?

I’m not expecting any kind of resurrection – usually when a franchise like that bumps off a main character it’s because the actor’s had enough. It’s the same reason that Judi Dench’s M bought the farm a couple of Bond films back.
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Could you not ask jedijudy to be responsible for hosting it? I mean, what were the chances she hadn’t seen it?

---

Indeed! However, when this thread appeared, I hadn't seen Star Wars yet. The planet hadn't moved into the correct position yet.

I'm still happy and can't wait to go again. Maybe IMAX???
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sipech:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jedijudy:
Did anyone else think that Rey looks like Padme?

---

Why shouldn't she look like her grandmother?

---

Great-gran, more likely. Padme is Luke and Leia's grandmother.
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
Actually, Padme is Luke and Leia's mom. Shmi is their grandma.

Feeling my inner geek roaring!
 

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Posted by toadstrike (# 18244) on :
 
It wasn't clear to me that Rey was Luke's daughter (although I suspected from the start it would turn out like that) but maybe I missed the relevant bit of the flashback thing going too fast for me.

Also when the ground was collapsing conveniently stopping short at Rey's feet I missed Kylo getting rescued but the reference to his continued training by Snoke.

What seemed odd to me was that she found her Jedi powers so fast having only just discovered them under Kylo's interrogation that she could overcome the stormtrooper (who I gather was a cameo by Daniel Craig) with a mind trick and get him to release her.
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
Lots of words coming up because I have to unload my many thoughts in a place where people are OK with spoilers ...

I loved, loved, loved it. And my inner feminist movie critic loved it too, because it's one of the very, very, very few action movies since the original Star Wars in 77 to move us a step forward (instead of several steps backward, as most movies since then have done) from badass Princess Leia, who was unusually capable and empowered for her time.

Rey is the MOST badass female action hero I've seen in this type of movie in awhile. She never needs to be rescued; when the guys do show up to rescue her she's already rescued herself. When she got knocked out in the final fight and Finn went after Kylo Ren with the light sabre, I thought, "Oh no! After doing so well for the whole movie, are they really going to have the heroine knocked unconscious and have the male lead be the one who fights in the final duel even though Rey is clearly the one in whom the Force is strong?" But they didn't. When she woke up and took the light sabre it was nothing short of awesome.

And during the scene with Rey and Maz where Maz tells Rey about the Force, I grabbed my daughter and said, "Movie passes the Bechdel test!!" It also did a great job representing women in lots of mundane background roles, from pilots to Stormtroopers. When a character's gender wasn't important, they didn't just automatically set "male" as the default, and that's much appreciated, I think, bu those of us who are watching to see how women are represented on the big screen.

I thought Han's death was totally appropriate, necessary and well-done. Of the three original (human) characters, he had by far the biggest role in this film, and I assume Ford told Abrams that he'd be willing to do it as a one-off. It was a great return and finale for that character and I loved everything -- Han being his old self, the Han/Leia relationship which was both satisfying and not, and the closure in that lovely final embrace. The way Han's relationship with Kylo Ren echoes (backwards) Luke's relationship with Vader (which has to be so hard for Han and Leia, because they RAISED this kid, and he still turned to the dark side). But his death was absolutely necessary, because Kylo Ren (also love the fact that his real name is Ben!) is shown as struggling with the choice between light and dark, and he has to do something absolutely, unequivocally evil to turn him to the dark side. What could be more effective than killing his father?

I liked that Kylo Ren wasn't a chilling dark lord like Vader, but a petulant teenager rebelling against his parents by trying super-hard to be a villain. (He reminds me a lot of teenage Anakin in the prequels, though played by a better actor, fortunately). I think the movie played that up and even had a bit of a laugh at his expense in the couple of scenes where he gets angry and basically has a temper tantrum slashing things with his light sabre ... the reactions of other characters in those scenes were priceless. I would assume this trilogy is basically going to be his redemption story as well as Rey's hero journey, and they had to take Ren to a pretty dark place quickly to make that story dramatic. So killing Han was the right thing to do from a story perspective, even though I loved seeing Harrison Ford as Han Solo onscreen again after all these years and hate that I'll never see him take on the role again.

I had a couple of nitpick-quibbles that did not destroy my enjoyment of the movie. First, I know some people complained that the awful prequels spent too much time on politics, but this one could have spent a little more time on politics -- like maybe three more sentences of dialogue to explain what was pretty confusing in the opening text-crawl. So, since the events of Return of the Jedi, presumably the New Republic has been ruling for awhile, right? Because the old Empire fell. And now this new group, the First Order, has risen up to challenge the Republic, and they're adopting the values and symbolism of the old Empire. OK. I get that. They're like neo-Nazis emulating the good old days of the Third Reich; that's believable.

But if that's the situation, why is there a "Resistance" fighting the First Order? The Resistance is allied with the Republic, but why are they resisting? Shouldn't it just BE the Republic trying to crush this upstart new group, the First Order? The Republic still holds power, right? A "resistance" group normally is trying to overthrow those in power; why would you resist against a bunch of rebels?

The only way I could figure it out (but it would have helped if this were actually in the movie rather than in my head) is that the First Order is a bit like ISIS (OK, so they're like neo-Nazis AND they're like ISIS) in that they're viewed as an offshoot rebel group but there are terrorities in which they hold power and control, and the Resistance is trying overthrow them within those territories, with help from the larger, more powerful Republic which has clearly lost control over those terrorities. That would make sense ... I think. But like I said, I could have used two or three more sentences to clarify that.

Also, super-dramatic to have Ren kill Han on top of that giant catwalk so we could see his body falling into the abyss, but ... are there no OH&S people on this First Order base??? Who puts a catwalk like that hundreds of metres above ... whatever is down below, without even a hint of a handrail? Are they trying to lose people?? Is it a sort of survival-of-the-fittest test?

I loved having Finn as a runaway storm trooper, but now thinking of the storm troopers as captured child soldiers raised for combat (a bit like the Unsullied in Game of Thrones) humanizes them quite a bit and makes me feel bad about how many of them get slaughtered. When they were just the white suits (or possibly clones in white suits) they seemed more robotic and less human, so you didn't have to have a lot of moral complexity around killing them. But having seen one question his role and rebel, now I wonder about all the rest!
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by toadstrike:
It wasn't clear to me that Rey was Luke's daughter (although I suspected from the start it would turn out like that) but maybe I missed the relevant bit of the flashback thing going too fast for me.

Also when the ground was collapsing conveniently stopping short at Rey's feet I missed Kylo getting rescued but the reference to his continued training by Snoke.

What seemed odd to me was that she found her Jedi powers so fast having only just discovered them under Kylo's interrogation that she could overcome the stormtrooper (who I gather was a cameo by Daniel Craig) with a mind trick and get him to release her.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
And during the scene with Rey and Maz where Maz tells Rey about the Force, I grabbed my daughter and said, "Movie passes the Bechdel test!!"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
And during the scene with Rey and Maz where Maz tells Rey about the Force, I grabbed my daughter and said, "Movie passes the Bechdel test!!"

---

I'd never heard of this before you posted the link, but am taken aback by how many films still fail on that even in the second decade of the 21st century.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Is it in any way confirmed that Rey is Luke's daughter? I could totally see how they might be setting that up (and I do hope Luke finally got some lovin' in the years since RotJ ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
And so, inch by painful inch, does the film industry crawl forward into the actual world we're all living in where roughly half of us are females.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I remember going to the cinema to see Revenge of the Sith and the unbelievable hype surrounding the film's release and having to book the cinema because there were queues to get seats even a week after release. We all sat there in the dark waiting on it starting, ever so excited by the pictures we had seen of that Darth Maul face and the talk of acrobatic light sabre fights and new bright stars in leading roles.

---

I think you're confusing the times when George Lucus let you down - which isn't surprising since its happened so often in recent years!
 

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Posted by beatmenace (# 16955) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:

The least convincing element for me was the baddie who I thought wasn’t nearly scary enough, even with the helmet on. Coming up with a baddie as scary as Darth Vader was always going to be a bit of a tall order, admittedly.

---

I don't think Kylo Ren is actually meant to be that scary. Its a quite cleverly done. He is basically a Darth Vader fanboy who never even got as far in his training as Anakin did. Remember Luke never got properly Jedi trained either, so probably didn't have much idea how to train a new bunch.

So Ren is basically a stroppy teenager who got the keys to the Ferarri. As a Force user he isn't actually that powerful but is the best (worst) that there is left.

Then Rey comes along who is a completely intuitive Force user, having been led along by Obi Wan (for it is his voice we hear in Rey's head) and we find out how limited Kylo Ren actually is, only having had enough rudimentary teaching to go to the dark side.

The character is much smarter than ' a budget Darth Vader'.
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
Yes, totally agree with that assessment of Kylo Ren.
 

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Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
I'm just happy a new Star Wars movie will be coming out every year for the next four years.
 

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Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
At last found it in 2D and in English

As someone who watched A New Hope on the 90' screen at the Leicester Square Odeon, it's hard to beat the sheer sense of awe you got as a teenager entering the Star Wars universe for the first time.

I enjoyed all the nods to A New Hope but found it a lot more wearing than I had anticipated.

It's interesting to see how it reflects changes over the past 38 years; black lead actor, lead female roles - and ISIS-like massacres of entire villages . I note stormtroopers accompanying the movie release seem to have been disarmed so as not to worry us too much...

(oh - best moment? Spotting the Millenium Falcon under that tarp )

[ 23. December 2015, 22:04: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
 

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Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :
 
After his strong opening scene I was disappointed Jeremy Corbyn didn't get more lines.
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
Daughter-Unit and I are going to see it again tomorrow morning! After the all the younglings go back to school, I'll go see it in 3D at the IMAX. Unfortunately D-U can't go, because she'll get a migraine.

Not only am I excited to see Star Wars again, but I get to spend some time with my beloved daughter. The best of all worlds!
 

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Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
Finn a Stormtrooper? Nonsense, he shoots straight.
 

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Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
It was interesting with Kylo Ren. Like someone said above, he lost his mystique when he took his helmet off; he looked like an upper-class twit. He obeyed what his father said quickly, in taking his helmet off. I was thinking "this is the big baddie, who's giving up so easily?"; then he killed his father and I was shocked. For me, that was a powerful moment.

My wife said that it was like parts 4-6 in that the film addressed a father/son relationship; this time though from the perspective of the father, not of the son.

A bit that was a bit like Matt-Smith-as-The-Doctor was when Fen and Rey were taking it in turns grabbing hands and running. Thankfully the film avoided the "ha, see how stronger/more clever the woman is" line that Doctor Who sometimes takes. Maybe for that reason, I could identify with Rey as a man; she has similarities to Luke and I liked her as well.
 

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Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 
the scenes between Han and Leia... oh my.

"I saw him."

Perhaps it's because of my age or my stage in life, but sitting next to my husband, with our almost-grown sons on either side, there was something so powerful about those scenes, where they both looked so old, so full of emotion, so many words unsaid. A million lifetimes between them it seemed, such a powerful connection.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
We celebrated Christmas in the ancient tradition of my people, by going to the cineplex and seeing STAR WARS. I do feel that the need to tread again the plot of the previous movie (a little bit is a hat tip, but the entire structure?) has made it a less good movie than it could be. If you insist that the drink have coconut and pineapple juice in it, it's going to taste like a pina colada, and there's no way around it.

And my husband and I agreed that they really need some fresh blood in their engineering departments. Yet one more planet-shaped death weapon with a fatal flaw, honestly.
 

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Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
The BB8 origin thing. Here's one theory.

Cattyish, I enjoyed it and look forward to some development.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Oh, and I found Baby Darth profoundly depressing. Villains should never be Wanna Bees. In a work of this type it is the antagonist that drives the entire story, and any failure or weakness pervades the entire work.
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Oh, I disagree entirely. There is no fixed reason why the villain has to be fully formed at the film's outset. When this part of the story starts, Kylo Ren is clearly well on the way to being the Big Bad, but he's not entirely there yet, and it makes the whole thing a lot more interesting when there's character development on the dark side as well as on the light. It's one of the few ways in which the story line of this movie is clearly distinguished from that of the original trilogy. Luke was a post-adolescent beginner hero at the start of Episode IV, facing an adult and completely evil bad guy in the form of Darth Vader. Rey, Finn and Kylo Ren are in the same generation, and it makes sense that as Rey and Finn are developing as heroes, Kylo Ren is developing as a villain.
 

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Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
Yes, I totally agree with that assessment, RuthW. I think Kylo Ren as an unformed would-be villain (who admits to still feeling a pull toward the light, though probably a bit less now after the whole patricide thing) is one of the things that makes this series potentially more interesting to me than the original.
 

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Posted by Soror Magna (# 9881) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
... And my husband and I agreed that they really need some fresh blood in their engineering departments. Yet one more planet-shaped death weapon with a fatal flaw, honestly.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Yes, I totally agree with that assessment, RuthW. I think Kylo Ren as an unformed would-be villain (who admits to still feeling a pull toward the light, though probably a bit less now after the whole patricide thing) is one of the things that makes this series potentially more interesting to me than the original.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
...I loved having Finn as a runaway storm trooper, but now thinking of the storm troopers as captured child soldiers raised for combat (a bit like the Unsullied in Game of Thrones) humanizes them quite a bit and makes me feel bad about how many of them get slaughtered. When they were just the white suits (or possibly clones in white suits) they seemed more robotic and less human, so you didn't have to have a lot of moral complexity around killing them. But having seen one question his role and rebel, now I wonder about all the rest!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Rogue:
... Did Kylo Ren sense the Force in Finn on the planet when the latter was starting to rebel?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Star Trek - Beyond beforehand

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Carrie Fisher looked worse for wear.

---

She was 20 in the first movie, and now she's 59. You've seen other post-menopausal women, right?

I just wish they hadn't made her lose 35 pounds.
 

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Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Also ...

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Carrie Fisher looked worse for wear.

---

She was 20 in the first movie, and now she's 59. You've seen other post-menopausal women, right?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Also ...

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Carrie Fisher looked worse for wear.

---

She was 20 in the first movie, and now she's 59. You've seen other post-menopausal women, right?

I just wish they hadn't made her lose 35 pounds.

---

To me the obvious aging added to the poignancy of their scenes. When Han simply says "I saw him" you feel like you're getting a glimpse of all that they have gone thru, the pain, the heartbreak
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
FWIW, the millenial/ thirtysomething fanboys on the Nerdist boards are pissing themselves with worship over La Fischer. Although admittedly it is more over her jaw droppingly badass interview tour.

Paging Stetson-- we need you to climb down out of your art film tower and do us a review!
 

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Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Soror Magna:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
... And my husband and I agreed that they really need some fresh blood in their engineering departments. Yet one more planet-shaped death weapon with a fatal flaw, honestly.

---

To be fair, there are a limited number of shapes available. Star Trek has already used the maw and the cube. And phallic weapons have been done to death.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Also ...

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Carrie Fisher looked worse for wear.

---

She was 20 in the first movie, and now she's 59. You've seen other post-menopausal women, right?

I just wish they hadn't made her lose 35 pounds.

---

To me the obvious aging added to the poignancy of their scenes. When Han simply says "I saw him" you feel like you're getting a glimpse of all that they have gone thru, the pain, the heartbreak

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
I'm nine years younger than Carrie Fisher and I'll be very happy if I look as good as she does when that day arrives. I love seeing an actress past middle age who has actual signs of having lived a human life on her face (and can still move her eyebrows). Harrison Ford looks wonderfully craggy and worn in this movie and people aren't complaining about that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
... Fisher. Where did I get Fischer?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
My son observed that Carrie Fisher looked less battered by age than Harrison Ford or Mark Hamill.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Yes, I totally agree with that assessment, RuthW. I think Kylo Ren as an unformed would-be villain (who admits to still feeling a pull toward the light, though probably a bit less now after the whole patricide thing) is one of the things that makes this series potentially more interesting to me than the original.

---

Haven't seen it yet, but amongst my fan stuff I read thar Kylo Ren is played by Adam Driver, who in other work has struck me as an intelligent, invested actor. In particular, he seems to have a knack for moral ambiguity, so I look forward to seeing how he handles this.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
I liked it, but found it too much like the original films for comfort.

Especially with the major premis of the film being about trying to destroy a superweapon with a small but "easily" accessed vulnerability.

...

---

I thought it was a bit of an affectionate send-up, especially with Han Solo's reaction to the question of what do we do - we go in and blow it up. Because the final battle wasn't so much about the starkiller but Rey, Kylo Ren and his dad, and Fin.
 

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Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
I forgot to mention an unintentional moment of humour in the French subtitles when Finn hastily discards the idea of using the initials of his stormtrooper number as a name: F-N.

Which in France means Front National.
 

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Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Not sure if I'll read the rest of the thread, because of what was said in Styx about people enthusiastically posting speculative semi-spoilers from various books.

BTW, if you go to IMDB's page for the movie and look at the cast list, do not click on the "more" after linked character names. Because IMDB stupidly lists if that character is in the 2017 movie. Fortunately, the one I saw isn't central, but I'd rather have been surprised.



Now, the movie. I saw it yesterday, the 2D version at an early (cheap!) showing. I usually don't like 3D, so this was perfect for me. And no lines.

I'm so glad they were kickin' it old school. From the few trailers I saw, I thought they might be. I'm generally not a fan of the newer movies. I loved the original ones, which started in my teens.

The story fits well with the original 3. I would've done a few things differently, mostly cinematography. I wonder if some semi-important bits wound up on the cutting room floor, and may show up in a director's cut edition.

I don't think either of the 2 main "deaths" is necessarily final. If anyone could manage to somehow survive/escape that fall and explosion, it's Han Solo. And it was strange about Finn. When he was being loaded onto transport, someone said that he still had a pulse. But Ray treated him as dead, later on, when she said goodbye to him. I kept wondering why she didn't at least *try* to use the Force to heal him. Maybe that kiss will?

All the original characters/actors looked great. I've heard that people have been trashing Carrie Fisher for aging; but it's been 40 years since the original film! I don't know what the time gap is in the fictional world; but it's probably at least 20 years later. Carrie, Harrison, and Mark all looked great--and that beard looks surprisingly good on Mark.

It was nice to see some of the old non-central characters, like Admiral fishface. I liked new barkeep very much. Kept reminding me of Linda Hunt. And I like the idea that she's been around for 1000 years. Will be interesting to see what the holographic leader really is.

I've only read the OP on this thread, but I agree about Ben looking like a young Snape. I kept trying to figure that out during the film. It was good to see Han and Leia reuniting about helping their son. When Han saw him on the bridge, I had an idea of what was going to happen. Strong echoes of ep. 4. I was hoping Han would say "I love you" or "I forgive you" before falling--but that last caring touch was wonderful.

I like Rey a lot. Probably Luke's kid, or from the extended family. And what about Finn?

I like the new droid--BB4? And the back story of R2 powering down for years, then waking up for BB4 was good. C3P0 was his usual, annoying self...though he does catch on a little more quickly than he used to. (Scene with Leia and Han.) And it was wonderful to see Chewbacca again!!!

When I heard that Lucas sold SW to Disney, I was angry and maybe questioned his sanity. But JJ Abrams did a good job, and did not make it into a Disney film. I think he set up enough story and possibilities for at least a couple more films. I'm excited!
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Saw it yesterday and liked a lot of it.

Rey is obviously brilliant. Finn is, I think, the most convincing protagonist in an action movie I have ever seen, because he basically spends the entire film looking genuinely scared. And, really, you would be, if anything like that happened in real life.

My favourite moment of the film is when Finn sees Rey getting mugged by two bazaar goons, and you can see that he's going to intervene to save her, but he's exhausted, and nervous, and just at the point of screwing up enough courage - by which time, Rey has recovered and laid out both attackers. That was beautifully done.

Worst bit was the utterly unconvincing planetary super-weapon. I don't care that it was a re=worked Death Star. I liked the Death Star. What made it shit was the whole 'drain the sun to blow up a planet' thing. It's as if the director hadn't learned that stars are, in fact, quite a bit bigger than planets, and if you are designing a machine to destroy planets, doing it by means of first destroying a star is going to make the task many orders of magnitude harder. It would be like swallowing a bonfire in order to light your own farts.

And if the stupid fucking thing drains the sun every time it's fired, I'm guessing that someone lost the page of the design spec headed "Reusability". Unless, of course, it's capable (as the Death Star was) of interstellar travel, in which case, why not fly it to the system you're attacking and drain their sun, rather than one of your own?

I know Star Wars is space opera, not hard sci-fi, but that bit of the movie was, frankly, moronic, and I had to work very hard on my suspension of disbelief to avoid having it spoil what was otherwise a very good film.

(Kylo Ren - yes, I liked the fact that he wasn't a fully-formed villain. It was great for the character, and it was played brilliantly. But it did leave the film with truly evil things being done by the First Order, without any real focus on a character who was thoroughly evil. Which I think is a weakness for the film as a whole.)
 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I was impressed with the special effects when the space ships were over water,and the water got all churned up.
And I thought Han looked awful, poor chap - but nobody seems to be criticising the way he's aged.
And I'm afraid I found myself speaking some of the lines as they happened, which kind of shows how well I know the characters - like when Rey said "This is the ship that did the Kessel Run in 14 parsecs?" I said "12 parsecs" at exactly the same time as Han!
Oh, and it's BB8!
 

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Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Eigon:
...And I thought Han looked awful, poor chap - but nobody seems to be criticising the way he's aged...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Carrie Fischer apparently sent out one of her trademark lightning bolt tweets in response to people picking on her unbotoxed face, and one of her (very young, male) fans replied that General Organa looked like "a seasoned, war hardened soldier" and therefore exactly the way a general should.

And again I am noting the generational thing- it seems to be the Gen X crowd, only slightly younger than Fischer herself, that is emitting squick about her visible signs of age. Young men think she's a badass, young women want to be her. It's those of an age to be worried about their own encroaching mortality that seem to be making the most noise.
(Yes, I Read the Comments, I'm afraid.)
As for me-- twelve years away from it, but if I accrue half the character and individuality Fischer has by the time I am 59, I will count myself accomplished.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eigon:
Oh, and it's BB8!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eliab:
... Rey is obviously brilliant. Finn is, I think, the most convincing protagonist in an action movie I have ever seen ... Worst bit was the utterly unconvincing planetary super-weapon. ... And if the stupid fucking thing drains the sun every time it's fired, I'm guessing that someone lost the page of the design spec headed "Reusability".

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Totally!

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Carrie Fischer apparently sent out one of her trademark lightning bolt tweets in response to people picking on her unbotoxed face, and one of her (very young, male) fans replied that General Organa looked like "a seasoned, war hardened soldier" and therefore exactly the way a general should.

And again I am noting the generational thing- it seems to be the Gen X crowd, only slightly younger than Fischer herself, that is emitting squick about her visible signs of age. Young men think she's a badass, young women want to be her. It's those of an age to be worried about their own encroaching mortality that seem to be making the most noise.
(Yes, I Read the Comments, I'm afraid.)
As for me-- twelve years away from it, but if I accrue half the character and individuality Fischer has by the time I am 59, I will count myself accomplished.

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Apologies, Kelly. I'd read it elsewhere as well and had forgotten you'd got there first.

I could live without the couple of comments I've seen from journalists who seem to think that dodgy comments are what you would expect of anyone who enjoys watching fantasy films
 

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Posted by goperryrevs (# 13504) on :
 

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Originally posted by Golden Key:
Will be interesting to see what the holographic leader really is.

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Why, it's Jar Jar Binks
 

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Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 

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Originally posted by Sipech:
Kye-Lo-Ren was great up until the point he took his mask off. Distinct whiff of Bane from The Dark Knight Rises but then he just turned into teenage Snape.

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Clearly, it was Luke himself.

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That thought occurred to me, but that seemed very unsatisfying and . . . odd. He vanishes, upset at what has become of his star pupil, and goes in search of the first Jedi Temple (meaning, presumably, he doesn't know where he's going), and yet here and there he leaves bits and pieces of a here's–where–to–find–me map? Really?
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I can't speak to his motives, which are clearly going to Be Revealed in a Later Movie. But it is the only logical solution given the data we have. The equivalent of "I don't want email and cell phone, but if there's a death in the family and you really have to get hold of me, send a note to this post office in Montana and I'll see it when I go in once a month for supplies."
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Space Opera it definitely was - great term for it. If someone had compiled a list of boxes to tick to create a Star Wars spin off movie, then every one of the boxes got ticked. But it was comfortably satisfying, and leaves you willing to go back for the next instalment - surely just what the producers want, right?

Best moment for me - seeing Chewbacca 'going ape' after Solo falls.

Prediction: just as this movie was about signing off on the character of Han Solo, the next one will be about signing off on the character of Luke Skywalker and the last one will be about signing off on the character of Leia Organa.
Not sure if Rey will be the replacement for all three - but it looks like she has the potential to be, before the franchise leaves the galaxy in a far far better way than we have ever known before.

Loved the new female lead - Daisy and the writers got it right. Tick.
Loved the heart-throbby ace Po. A tick for all those who love Italian formula one race car drivers.
Loved the character of FiN - now we know why the clone army had to be eliminated. A tick for those who love to see African American leads.
Loved the character of Maz. A tick for those who needed to see a mystic equivalent to Yoda ( derivative surely of Gaia - Whoopi Goldberg's Star Trek character).
Bits for the kids - BB8 is super cute and franchisable in so many ways - especially for the Japanese market. Nods to C3PO - still annoyingly in the way and R2D2 - although it seemed like the script writers were struggling to give them anything to do that made any sense.
Loved seeing Han and Chewbacca still roaming the galaxy together. After the well documented health struggles of Ford, Fisher and Hamill, it was good to see them in action again.
Fisher had the hardest role - a Princess and a general. A worried mother who couldn't leave her post, and an ex-lover of someone still frequently MIA. So much to get across in so few lines.
Ticks to all three.
Ticks to all the Dark Force bits that have become so well known - the voice in the mask, the trembling minions, the ability to throttle with a look and a gesture. The shady master.

And of course the symbolic draining of the light - when the sun goes out and Solo junior turns to the darkness. This really made me smile - because I am always telling my children to "Swim towards the Light" when they are feeling engulfed by feelings or circumstances of doom. I could feel every parent's pain at that point. Big tick from me.

So much opera. And so much of it rightly so. May the Force continue. Looking forward to the next one. I bet it's already in post production. They can't leave it too long if Fisher and Hamill have major parts.


 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Banner Lady:

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Loved the character of Maz. A tick for those who needed to see a mystic equivalent to Yoda ( derivative surely of Gaia - Whoopi Goldberg's Star Trek character).

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I really liked her, too, a wise ancient woman who ran a bar. But just a point of info, Whoopi's character was named "Guinan".
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Ah yes - getting my Captain Planet mixed up with my Captain Picard. Live long enough and they all start running into each other....
 

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Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :
 

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Originally posted by Banner Lady:
...
Loved the character of FiN - now we know why the clone army had to be eliminated. A tick for those who love to see African American leads.
...

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Originally posted by Nicolemr:
One question, did it ever say who the old man at the beginning who gave the map to Po was? The opening identified him as an "old friend", but I didn't recognize him and I don't think they ever mentioned his name.

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Originally posted by Nicolemr:
... but the same quibble as others have mentioned about the weapon. In fact, how did they use it the first time, on the Republic, and then still have a sun left to use it again?

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
That's my only problem with the movie, but boy is it a big one.

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

As for the fact that a group of people on a third unrelated planet were apparently able to look up at the sky and watch the whole thing go down in real time as well - that's just Binks-level bullshit.

That's my only problem with the movie, but boy is it a big one.

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Not going to tell you what you should like or dislike. But Binks and the obvious science flaws are entirely different issues.
There is no level system to compare them.
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Did anyone else see Rey's transport (incidentally, I loved the near-dead planet strewn with wreckage), and think Massey Ferguson 35, or was it just me?

AG
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
That's exactly what I thought of! Rey's transport is a wee bit faster than the tractor I used to drive when I was a kid.
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I thought of my uncle's old Farmall 100, but it's pretty much the same thing.
 

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
My first and continued thought the entire time it was on screen was how inefficient a vehicle it was for a scavenger.
But I think this is more what they were trying to imply.

[ 02. February 2016, 17:25: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
 

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Posted by MSHB (# 9228) on :
 
Of course a long time separates the first trilogy and this new movie ... and we have seen other movie series in the meantime.

So when Rey and Kylo Ren are fighting in the snow and they both try to fetch the light sabre, all I could think was: "The wand chooses the wizard".
 

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Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
LOL, MSHB.
 

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Indiana Jones Easter Egg in The Force Awakens
 

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Posted by Nicolemr (# 28) on :
 
I just saw it for the second time, and i think it holds up to repeated viewings, though the main plot holes still remain.
 

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