|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Is there something wrong with this phrase "Battle against cancer"?
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
When I hear it said someone has died "after a long/etc battle against cancer", I sense something not quite right.
I don't know what exactly is wrong with it, other than being a euphemism and a cliche, and I wonder if anyone here shares my concern and can articualte it better.
I never hear of a battle against Alzheimer's or heart disease or old age.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
I've got two family members "battling" cancer right now (no, they're not, hate that phrase) and I'll tell you what I don't like about it. It casts the whole illness into an antagonistic, "may the best man win" mode--and inevitably implies that someone who dies has failed. It suggests that if you were only a better warrior, you would win (=live). Basically, it puts the full responsibility for the outcome on the person plagued with cancer, which is a huge emotional burden to put on anybody. (And the idea of having to "battle" anything when cursed with the total body fatigue and pain of chemo is just.not.fair.)
The other diseases etc. you mention are considered things that happen TO you (well, maybe not heart disease, but probably more so than cancer) and so people get a pass on "battling" if they get stuck with those evils.
If I get cancer, I'm going to be damn angry with anybody who tries to cheerlead me into "battling" harder.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I've got two family members "battling" cancer right now (no, they're not, hate that phrase) and I'll tell you what I don't like about it. It casts the whole illness into an antagonistic, "may the best man win" mode--and inevitably implies that someone who dies has failed. It suggests that if you were only a better warrior, you would win (=live). Basically, it puts the full responsibility for the outcome on the person plagued with cancer, which is a huge emotional burden to put on anybody.
I'd never thought of it this way before. Thanks for posting this. I have something to chew on today.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
Why must the cause of death be publicly disclosed at all?
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
I am also bothered by the phrase "died of a massive heart attack". Is that an attempt to suggest that a lesser heart attack wouldn't have brought the person down?
[ 22. August 2015, 21:09: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I am also bothered by the phrase "died of a massive heart attack". Is that an attempt to suggest that a lesser heart attack wouldn't have brought the person down?
To me this suggests a first heart attack or a heart attack much worse than any that had preceded it.
Moo
--------------------
Kerygmania host
---------------------
See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
|
Posted
I believe I have heard the expression "battling heart disease".
Many people have minor heart attacks and survive.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
As a cancer survivor, I certainly wouldn't describe the disease as involving a battle. It definitely involved my dealing with emotional matters, and there was pain, discomfort, inconvenience, etc. Calling it a battle I won would give me undeserved credit for the outcome.
It was my physicians, much more than I, who should be credited with the successful treatment.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I never hear of a battle against Alzheimer's or heart disease or old age.
I think this figure of speech is not uncommon for diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and ALS - when I search for the phrase "battle against ()" I get several hits on the first page in which it is used to describe an individual's experience.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Rhythm Methodist
Shipmate
# 17064
|
Posted
Having being diagnosed with (and treated for) cancer this year, I think Lamb Chopped has got it about right. I certainly never had a sense of "doing battle" - I just acted on the instructions of the doctors. Being blessed with many good people praying for me, I didn't feel the need to pray too much for myself. Following medical advice and prayer were my only input into the situation - hard to see that as engaging in a battle!
Posts: 202 | From: Wales | Registered: Apr 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
The one I hear is 'courageous battle with...'. My best friend died in 1988 noncourageously. Another close buddy died 5 years ago this month. He did not do battle either. I have blamed funeral directors for the euphemisms. I have felt it contains elements of denial.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Do you ever get the sense that people are trying to co-opt you* into their inspira-porn? (* person with cancer) I mean, when they go on about how brave you are, or how you're battling it, or whatever. Once in a while we get this about our immigrant ministry ("what wonderful people you are, I could never do that") and it makes me want to upchuck. There's just no answer to people who want to make you into their own Lifetime movie special. In my experience, anyway.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
There has been a huge change in attitude towards cancer in my lifetime. It used to be the unnameable illness, or the "Big C." People delayed going to their doctor if they thought it might be cancer. It wasn't even clear if sufferers should be told they had cancer - families would go to great lengths to try to prevent someone from realising that they were dying. Obituaries referred to "a long illness."
And then there was a huge swing. Cancer was spoken of, screening programmes appeared, charities became high profile, people wore pink ribbons on their lapels.
A whole new language of cancer had to be created to replace the old silences - and what happened was that a new set of euphemisms appeared.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
|
Posted
I too have never been overly keen on the public use of this phrase and like it even less when news reports come up with -- so and so has finally 'lost' their battle against cancer.
Yes, we all have the survival instinct giving us the desire to fight in clinging to life. Yes, the medical profession may see their role as soldiers fighting the good fight where death and disease is concerned. To project all this on to one person who has been given the news most would dread? Indeed seemingly ridiculous.
--------------------
Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
My dad died of cancer. He pretty much ignored the fact he had it, declining anything but palliative treatment.
There was no 'battle', no 'struggle', just a stoic acceptance of his fate and a determination to do as much as possible for as long as possible. Which he did. Kudos.
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
|
Posted
I think some people will find insight and meaning in this phrase while others won't. It's also used in mental illness such as "my battle with depression."
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397
|
Posted
I have seen people accept their cancer and maximise the quality of their lives through eschewing treatment, and catching up with people and activities they love.
I have seen people fight to the bitter end. To sacrifice quality to attain more time with family and friends. Chemo in the last week, radiotherapy the day before. And these people battled. They fought. They did not go quietly into the night. Their fight was not a losing fight against a disease that won. Their fight was to live a little longer- and these people won, each and every one.
And do you know which approach is the right one?
Both.
I fully support both.
--------------------
Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.
Posts: 3511 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
|
Posted
I find it is perhaps better suited to things like depression, where it does really feel like you're battling against your own mind half the time. But I wonder if how favourably an illness is viewed relates to this - you don't hear about people battling with schizophrenia, just that they are schizophrenic, it has become their whole personality as far as others are concerned. Whereas it's understood that depression isn't the whole personality of someone with depression. I wonder if that also applies to cancer v Alzheimer's.
--------------------
Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I've got two family members "battling" cancer right now (no, they're not, hate that phrase) and I'll tell you what I don't like about it. It casts the whole illness into an antagonistic, "may the best man win" mode--and inevitably implies that someone who dies has failed. It suggests that if you were only a better warrior, you would win (=live). Basically, it puts the full responsibility for the outcome on the person plagued with cancer, which is a huge emotional burden to put on anybody. (And the idea of having to "battle" anything when cursed with the total body fatigue and pain of chemo is just.not.fair.)
The other diseases etc. you mention are considered things that happen TO you (well, maybe not heart disease, but probably more so than cancer) and so people get a pass on "battling" if they get stuck with those evils.
If I get cancer, I'm going to be damn angry with anybody who tries to cheerlead me into "battling" harder.
Sorry, I don't agree with some of the implications you are drawing.
The main reason is to cast the cancer as something "other". There is something growing inside you that is not you.
As opposed to other conditions, which, I agree, are cast as something that happens to you, as a deterioration of your own body.
But I don't agree with your suggestions that this necessarily means that losing is seen as a sign of weakness or moral failing. That's an extra implication.
In fact, I'd go so far as suggest that the "battle" language isn't actually meant to achieve something, but is the result of the more general perception of the disease as "other" in the first place.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Maybe it's time to draw a distinction. If someone chooses to use the battle language about their own situation, fine, good, it's working for them. What I hate is where someone else applies it to the person, along with the "you're so brave" (as if they had any choice about it!) and "You're an inspiration to us all."
I haven't had cancer (yet) so I can't say whether I would choose to conceptualize it as something outside of me, apart from me. I DO have a genetic disorder which I consider a part of "me" and not an intruder, though I don't like it.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
|
Posted
I won't use the battle image, ever, and it certainly doesn't apply to me - I'm a coward by nature, and when I saw a bloody great truck called cancer bearing down on me, a battle was the last thing on my mind. I am much happier calling it an adventure because it took me by surprise, I had no idea what was going to happen next and despite some nasty suspicions, no idea how it was going to end. Mostly, it has been a spectator event, watching other people doing the battling for me. They are the people who deserve the credit for putting up a fight.
--------------------
Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
|
Posted
I agree with Lamb Chopped. I particularly don't like it when we hear that someone has cancer but "We're sure he'll beat it because he's a fighter." Sometimes applied to a little child who may not feel like fighting but notices that his parents expect him to. Is there any evidence that the person who lies in bed watching cartoons is more likely to die than the one who appears to be "fighting?"
Jimmy Carter was diagnosed with brain cancer recently and I love the things that he is saying to the press. "I'm perfectly at ease with whatever comes,” combined with mention that he is a Christian and his faith is a great help to him. So much more realistic than the usual bold declaration of how he's going to lick this thing.
It's so rare when a public figure, admired and known to be extremely intelligent, speaks of his faith and credits it with helping him through the bad times. What a powerful witness.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
|
Posted
I'm not crazy about the language of "The Event to End/Cure Cancer" myself. We all know that long after all the participants have bicycled to Portland, or run 10K in their undies, or whatever, there will still be cancer. All it does is make me feel resentful at being guilted into donating, 'cause the title makes it sound as if I don't, it must be because I'm too cheap to cure cancer.
And what Lamb Chopped said about which illnesses are "battles". If I ever said, "Hey, everybody, I'm battling hypertension!", my friends would probably think I was making a joke.
--------------------
"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
bib
Shipmate
# 13074
|
Posted
There are many euphemisms that irritate me : battling an illness; a person described as one of nature's gentlemen (what on earth does that mean?); people described as having 'passed' instead of the truthful expression 'died'. These and many others exist because people seem to be uncomfortable with calling a spade a spade. It seems that there are some subjects that fall into the unmentionable category because we are all unwilling to use ordinary language. The remedy lies with you and me.
--------------------
"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
|
Posted
I like what Twilight, LambChopped and others have said: the "battling" metaphor makes it into a moral or virtuous crusade rather than a medical condition, and I detest it. But perhaps people genuinely feel that one's mental state will help combat the disease. If that's true (and, knowing that the body is a complex mechanism, it may be) then that will apply to many other illnesses too.
@NEQ: a lady in my church was so frightened of cancer that she was even wary of referring to it as "The Big C." - I think she thought that mentioning it somehow acted as a lightning conductor and attracted the illness. You can guess what she died of - because she was too frightened to go to the doctor in case she found out that she had cancer.
I had a cancer scare and an operation a couple of years ago (had a follow-up CT scan this week, as it happens). The solicitude and rhetoric shown by people were totally different to the attitudes they have shown with other ailments. What is it about cancer in particular that causes this to happen, especially as treatment these days is so much better?
[ 23. August 2015, 06:41: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
These and many others exist because people seem to be uncomfortable with calling a spade a spade. It seems that there are some subjects that fall into the unmentionable category because we are all unwilling to use ordinary language. The remedy lies with you and me.
One phrase I dislike, though there may not be a better one: "She's having investigations done". Sounds as if she's employing Sherlock Holmes!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
I hate talk of fights and battles as if they are good things. Lots of hymns have the same - I dislike them intensely.
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
|
Posted
As someone who experienced cancer, I'm not fond of people terming it a battle for you. If someone wants to view it that way, fine. Otherwise, it's an unhelpful characterization that implies those who die didn't fight well enough. It would be odd to describe a "battle" with mortality since we all die.
The phrase became popular in the Nixon years as there was a decision to start a massive federal research program against cancer, like the race to the moon. It's less obnoxious to describe a government program rather than a personal struggle that way, but one of the things they found early on was that "Cancer' was many different malfunctions, some of them now curable and others not.
Personally I'd rather not use it for my own experience. It's not an external enemy, it's part of my body not working properly.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
When I hear it said someone has died "after a long/etc battle against cancer", I sense something not quite right.
I don't know what exactly is wrong with it, other than being a euphemism and a cliche, and I wonder if anyone here shares my concern and can articulate it better.
Oh, absolutely agree! Every time I hear that, I wince! When I had cancer, I knew it was the skill of the doctors, radiologists and pharmacists etc that would make the difference as to whether I'd live or not. Then I heard it articulated far better by Claire Rayner when she had cancer.
--------------------
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
There are many euphemisms that irritate me : battling an illness; a person described as one of nature's gentlemen (what on earth does that mean?); people described as having 'passed' instead of the truthful expression 'died'. These and many others exist because people seem to be uncomfortable with calling a spade a spade. It seems that there are some subjects that fall into the unmentionable category because we are all unwilling to use ordinary language. The remedy lies with you and me.
Spot on! I've made it clear to my granddaughters that when I die, they should not use any euphemisms. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
--------------------
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
|
Posted
My experience is that not many people are OK with being helpless. So, when people with cancer and their friends and family use phrases that imply a battle, I think it is because they do not want to feel helpless against that disease.
It is possible that they need to channel their feelings of fear and frustration into terms that make them feel less helpless.
Perhaps instead of condemning those folks it might be a good idea to pray that they find comfort and serenity.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
There's some sort of alternative healing centre near here - they say that you shouldn't 'battle' but keep calm and meditative because this has a curative effect whereas battling depletes healing energy.
I suppose this could explain why some folk who doctors give months to live sometimes unexpectedly go on a few years. Perhaps part of it's down to the person and their demeanour and part down to the nature of the condition.
The fight for survival is an intrinsic trait in all life forms so it is understandable that we might use such terminology where life threatening conditions are concerned. Yet when the end of life is near, or inevitable something else seems to take over, something peaceful and calm.
--------------------
Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
My experience is that not many people are OK with being helpless. So, when people with cancer and their friends and family use phrases that imply a battle, I think it is because they do not want to feel helpless against that disease.
That's fair enough. If the phrasing helps people with cancer and those near to them to cope, then all to the good.
What a lot of people here don't care for is other people using the term generally. As can be seen here, those who have actually had cancer, don't care for it.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Polly
Shipmate
# 1107
|
Posted
People should be free to use whatever language framework that want and what helps them work through the trauma of having cancer.
If you don't like the language then don't use it. It's really simple.
Posts: 560 | From: St Albans | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
|
Posted
LC wrote:
quote:
...inspira-porn...Once in a while we get this about our immigrant ministry ("what wonderful people you are, I could never do that")
It's code for "here's a piece of verbal schlock which cost me nothing, which I'm going to use internally to buy off my conscience in lieu of feeling personal responsibility for the thing I'm professing to praise you for".
It's kind of the more socially-competent version of what I generally do, which is also to do nothing but also to say nothing, and to just feel shit.
--------------------
"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
|
Posted
I think Polly is correct.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Polly:
People should be free to use whatever language framework that want and what helps them work through the trauma of having cancer.
If you don't like the language then don't use it. It's really simple.
That's not the point. If people with cancer see it in those terms, fine. I hope it helps them.
None of those on this thread who have had cancer or chemo (including me) like it. But if others who have had cancer do, well and good.
The point is how it is used by others as a sentimental cliche to distance themselves and trivialize our struggle.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Polly
Shipmate
# 1107
|
Posted
quote:
The point is how it is used by others as a sentimental cliche to distance themselves and trivialize our struggle.
I think that's pretty awful to say about people who try to show care and empathy for those who struggle with any illness let alone anyone suffering from cancer.
The 3rd time my mum had brain cancer last year and had to have an operation we had a number of people who showed their care and concern, some of them even used the language of battling cancer. I would never suggest anyone who came along side my family and tried to do anything you suggested.
Posts: 560 | From: St Albans | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
The point is how it is used by others as a sentimental cliche to distance themselves and trivialize our struggle.
Right, or lay expectations on others just when they don't feel up to meeting them.
I think personality might have a lot to do with this, maybe even gender in some cases. Tortuf would hate to feel helpless and might prefer the idea of going forth, battling bravely. Boogie and I don't like the idea of fighting at all and would rather stay in and pet our dogs.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
Polly, I wasn't talking about people in contact with those with cancer.
It must have been awful for your family and I'm glad there were people to support you.
I was talking about those who just generally use the term "battling against cancer" as the inevitable term for those that they don't know.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Polly
Shipmate
# 1107
|
Posted
quote:
I was talking about those who just generally use the term "battling against cancer" as the inevitable term for those that they don't know.
The thing is everyone knows someone who has suffered from cancer. Some know how to talk about it better than others but to suggest that some use language to distance themselves from another persons suffering purposely is not on.
Posts: 560 | From: St Albans | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
|
Posted
How about all those conversations that go like this:
"Joan has cancer."
"She's a smoker isn't she?"
"Yes."
"Well."
The withholding of sympathy because we blame the victim's life style choices is starting to show up over all sorts of things.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
Look, it's not true that people are helpless. It's not true that a cancer patient is supposed to just lie there passively while doctors and radiologists and what have you do their thing.
Saying that it's all about willpower is wrong, but so is the other extreme of saying that attitude has nothing to do with physical outcomes. There is plenty of research showing how a person's mental state affects their body.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
The withholding of sympathy because we blame the victim's life style choices is starting to show up over all sorts of things.
It's been showing up since the Ancient Greek playwrights. It's never been the case that people who suffer misfortune through no fault of their own and people who significantly contributed to their own misfortune have been viewed in the same light.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
What bugs me is I'm getting (about my family members) questions like "What did he/she do to get cancer?" and the questioner expects a neat, nice answer, all wrapped up in ribbon. It's not meant in any negative sort of way--I know the questioner, and he's not trying to victim-blame--but he is very much worried that it could happen to someone he loves, and he really doesn't want to hear "It just happened" because that leaves open the possibility it could "just happen" to his wife or kids. There ought to be something controllable, dammit! (sigh) and so he keeps asking...
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
How about all those conversations that go like this:
"Joan has cancer."
"She's a smoker isn't she?"
"Yes."
"Well."
The withholding of sympathy because we blame the victim's life style choices is starting to show up over all sorts of things.
Withholding sympathy from whom? The dead person? They don't need it, they're dead. The dead person's loved ones? Well, that is a bit jerkish. But acknowledging the cause isn't necessarily equivalent to a lessening of sympathy.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
... though not ALL cases of lung cancer are due to smoking, and no doubt there are a few cases where a smoker would have had lung cancer regardless of personal habits. Which confounds the issue.
Mr. Lamb was dealing with a woman with lung cancer last year who had never smoked a cigarette, but the constant assumption by everybody was that she had. It must be a burden.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
How about all those conversations that go like this:
"Joan has cancer."
"She's a smoker isn't she?"
"Yes."
"Well."
The withholding of sympathy because we blame the victim's life style choices is starting to show up over all sorts of things.
Withholding sympathy from whom? The dead person? They don't need it, they're dead. The dead person's loved ones? Well, that is a bit jerkish. But acknowledging the cause isn't necessarily equivalent to a lessening of sympathy.
Twilight's conversation is in the present tense, so I assume that her Joan character is still alive.
--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
Good catch.
Well, then, how about just the last line?
Acknowledging the cause isn't necessarily equivalent to a lessening of sympathy.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
