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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Maps
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
As a child I used to love looking through atlases, finding out where places were (including places I'd visited) and seeing how the world fitted together.
Then there were maps of imaginary countries, which you could stare at when you finished reading a book you'd particularly enjoyed, trying to visualize, as it might be, Cair Paravel, or the Shire, and prolong the pleasure of the book a little longer. With great enthusiasm, I copied out all the maps from the Lord of the Rings at one point.
Sometimes it was fun simply to create your own imaginary map and make up adventures based on it.
There were also historical maps, so you could trace the development of a country from pre-Roman times to the present day, which was often quite interesting. And then there are maps like the Tube map, streamlined and beautiful, and which have spawned any amount of parodies.
But for me a good map should always have features of interest. Preferably (though it isn't essential) a cherub in one corner, blowing a gale, a small whale spouting in the ocean, and a sign saying "Here be dragons" in the middle of a desert. Just something to add that extra touch of interest and wonder about an unknown part of the world.
So - any interesting maps you've particularly enjoyed? And do you actually use maps at all? I have to admit I don't these days, apart from the occasional glance at a road atlas.
[ 02. August 2015, 11:50: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I've been a map lover since my parents bought a four-volume children's encyclopedia accompanied by an atlas giving details of planet earth (and a bit beyond), all the countries and, the highlight, about 150 pages of maps. We still have it although it is out of date and well-worn.
Favourite map must however be an OS map of Roman Britain from the 1950's, accompanied by a booklet. I don't lend it to anyone!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
I love maps; my favourite shop is Stanfords and I even have a reason to go tomorrow *happy dance* to buy the map for walking next weekend. The paper (or waterproof) map is so much more interesting than following a phone app, as it gives context and ideas to explore. Poring over the map and wondering where to go and what to do is half the joy.
I also have a collection of historical maps of this area - from 1649, 1777 and more recent - and that's equally entertaining, tracing developments and changes, using field names to inform archaeological research - we reckon we found the site where bricks were made for the building of a large local house by that technique.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
Ooh I love Stanfords too, it's been far too long since I've been there. I'm another armchair atlas-porer-overer, which I think is why I loved this book by Judith Schalansky, it is the ultimate combination of armchair atlas-poring, nerdy factoids and imagination. It's also beautiful, IMO.
These days, although I don't pore over the atlas so much, I must admit that one of my favourite genres of books is travel writing, so I often travel the world from my armchair through the adventures of others. Sometimes I'm even inspired to explore the actual places too.
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The parsonage house where I spent most of my childhood was rather grand - we had Robert Adam interiors! - and a feature of the dining room was a scaled-up map of the county that covered the chimney breast. It was magical: little churches, rivers (some with fish), small trees, etc.
In addition to that, from when we were about 8 our papa would make one of us responsible for map-reading when we went on longer car journeys (I suspect he knew the route exactly but it gave us a job) and so we would be expected to look at the route on the maps in the AA Book before setting off, and then to give directions as needed.
I still consult maps before setting off for somewhere new and brought up the children to know how to use a map.
As you say, the ones with cherubs, etc, are particularly attractive.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
I am an unashamed map nerd. One of my most prized possessions is a Ward Lock Red Guide to London, 1938.
I use maps a lot when I'm writing books - not necessarily to "visit every damn place named on it", but just for me, for reference, to make sure if a character goes from A to B, they'll take a realistic amount of time doing so, and what they might find on the way.
My latest purchase was only a couple of weeks ago: OS Explorer sheet 403, Cairn Gorm and Aviemore. A map, a compass and a stout pair of boots is all I ask for.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
I must have fallen in love with maps in scouts, when we were using pink first-series 1:50000 OS maps. So these are the ones I pick up cheap on ebay - they're normally fine for walking and cycling, but I once got rather lost in the middle of the night when ambushed by a subsequent bypass, trying to cycle from Bangor to Caernarfon.
(On which subject - round the back of Caer. sewage works, next to the sea and near where the Nantlle railway used to cross the river, is a surprisingly nice spot for fly-camping. You'd need an old map to find the Nantlle railway!).
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
Another map fanatic here.
Apart from them just being fascinating and often beautiful things, I love to know where I am, what's over the hill, where the road goes etc.
I'm always delighted to find a novel has a map at the front, and will flick back to it whenever the location is mentioned.
I'm intending to make a map of the area immediately around us - probably in needlework - it has just about every natural feature you can think of.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I went to Stanfords in London and spent a fortune in half an hour -- more maps than you would believe possible, all in one place!
One of my favorite books is an 1889 edition of
King Solomon's Mines. It has a fold-out map in the front, representing the map that Jose da Silvestra drew on his shirt, using his own blood for ink. To fold this thing out is just thrilling.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
I was involved in the creation of a pretty awesome map. The iPad app Timeline World War 2 (for which I was lead developer) contains a map of the world, shaded to show which power controls or threatens each territory for any given day throughout the war.
To make it, we had to buy up old atlases and historical books, trace country boundaries (since they're not in the same place as today), and collate newspaper reports showing the results of any battles. It was an awesome project, and to my knowledge nobody else has made such a map.
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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not entirely me
Shipmate
# 17637
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Posted
I'm also a map lover. I like a good OS map or really old maps.
Posts: 68 | From: England | Registered: Apr 2013
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
... and a feature of the dining room was a scaled-up map of the county that covered the chimney breast. It was magical: little churches, rivers (some with fish), small trees, etc.
I completely forgot. I had a huge map of Disneyland when I was a child. I used to love "travelling" round it.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I have a large collection of 1:50,000 topographic maps. 1 inch on map = 1 mile. Though we generally use metric now. Most of mine have been for wilderness travel. Canoe in thd north. Hiking in the mountains.
I was trained as a boy scout to locate myself, estimate distances across bodies of water. Trigonometry. Our bible was "Be Expert With Map And Compass". I have several orienteering compasses and two Bruntons which my father used for geological surveying.
I think many people rely on the googlemaps now. And the mechanical voice telling them where to drive. My favourite maps are one where the south pole is up and another with alternate proposals for western Canada's provinces. Hence my location below my sig.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
We've deliberately avoided satnavs until now, but Starman's new car has one built in, and I cannot bear to have technology hanging around without knowing how to use it. So far we haven't been anywhere we didn't know, so it has been a matter of comparing the 'recommended' route with the one we know to be best (and, it has to be said, enjoying being disobedient).
The thing that really startled me was realising that there is no way of seeing the overall route, and therefore no means of knowing where you are in the country.
I suspect we will use it for small sections of journeys where we're not confident about the roads, particularly if there is only one of us in the car, but I'm absolutely certain we will never use it in preference to a map. I couldn't live with not knowing where I am, where I've been, where I'm going and how they relate to each other!
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Bene Gesserit
Shipmate
# 14718
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Posted
I create (using ESRI ArcGIS), curate and use maps in my job and have a (v small) selection at home. Looking at, say, how the geology of a given place creates its landscape is still fascinating even after many years!
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Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus
Posts: 405 | From: Flatlands of the East | Registered: Apr 2009
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
The only bit of French poetry I have known by heart for years:
Pour l'enfant, amoureux de cartes et d'estampes,
L'univers est égal à son vaste appétit.
Ah! que le monde est grand à la clarté des lampes!
Aux yeux du souvenir que le monde est petit!
For the child in love with maps and plans, the universe is equal to his vast appetite. How the world is big in the lamplight, and how it is small when we remember it.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
venbede: wonderful. Whose is it?
Bene Gesserit: one of kids uses arcGIS for work also. Fascinating to see maps with things like pharmacy locations and medical appointments for substance abuse. Nutrition and diet problems for kids and locations of grocery stores.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Charles Baudelaire Le Voyage
http://fleursdumal.org/poem/231
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
I'm a lover of the 1:25,000 Explorer OS maps. Have visited Stanford's a few times this summer getting maps as I've been walking the North Downs Way. The 1:50,000 range just isn't detailed enough.
The more detail the better.
I think my appreciation of a really good map came about when I was hiking in northern Slovenia in 2010 and was using the local maps (not up to OS) standard that only showed the trails the mapmakers thought you'd want to walk along. So when I was looking for a turn on the right and found one, I went down it, not realising that the one I actually wanted was 100 yards further along, and I ended up in the middle of a logging operation. ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
Since imaginary places seem to be approved by the OP, I'll mention my prized teenage possession of Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Pern, an essential and authoritative (i.e. author-authorised) guide to Anne McCaffrey's dragon novels.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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marzipan
Shipmate
# 9442
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Posted
I love the orange 1:25000 OS maps. My friends and I went on a 'big walk' from Liverpool to Bristol a few years ago which we plotted with the orange maps (where we could, we followed the Offas Dyke Path, but we deviated a bit). It was great having each field shown on the map and being able to know exactly where we were.
Over here in Ireland the whole country is covered by 1:50000 maps but only selected areas have 1:25000, they're still interesting though.
I also have the atlas of remote islands, it's a lovely book.
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formerly cheesymarzipan.
Now containing 50% less cheese
Posts: 917 | From: nowhere in particular | Registered: May 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
Since imaginary places seem to be approved by the OP, I'll mention my prized teenage possession of Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Pern, an essential and authoritative (i.e. author-authorised) guide to Anne McCaffrey's dragon novels.
Oh wow. I had no idea that even existed.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
A GPS is a superb aid on strange roads. I have driven to places that I still don't know where they are -- all I had was an address, but I got there and got back. I also admire their stubborn quality. You can wander way, way off track and it still remembers your original goal and patiently tries to guide you there. (Brief image of the Holy Spirit, murmuring, 'Recalculating...')
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
...You can wander way, way off track and it still remembers your original goal and patiently tries to guide you there. (Brief image of the Holy Spirit, murmuring, 'Recalculating...')
I find a fascination in seeing how far we have to go before it stops telling us to make a u-turn and recalculates. Definitely more shades of the Holy Spirit, I think.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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cattyish
Wuss in Boots
# 7829
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Posted
I have given something a little older than this map of Caithness to my Dad, who has worked up there for 43 years as a quantity surveyor.
I love the aesthetics and function of maps, but I am a total gadget geek and have every conceivable navigation device including a second-hand Garmin running watch on me almost everywhere I go.
Cattyish, easily geographically confused.
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...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived, this is to have succeeded.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posts: 1794 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jul 2004
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
I was in High School when my school dumped its collection of National Geographic maps in favor of the CD Rom version. Luckily I was on the spot when I found the box of old maps next to the trash can, and I brought them home, probably to the consternation (but not surprise) of my parents, who were kind enough to store them for me for about ten years before telling me that I had to do something with them.
There were two treasures in the box; a map of Europe from 1938, and a map of the world from 1941. I have both framed and hanging at my house.
My grandmother died last year, and when my mother was cleaning out her house, she found two paperback historical atlases that my grandparents got in 1990 as a free gift for subscribing to Newsweek. She knew that I had spent hours studying those atlases, and brought them to me. Funny thing, of all of the family heirlooms in that house, the first thing that came to mind when I thought about anything I might want were those atlases.
So suffice it to say that I get the map obsession.
(When my parents bought a summer cabin in the mountains, my father ran out and bought the nine USGS topo maps consisting of the map where the cabin was located, and the eight surrounding maps. A little foam board and rubber cement turned it into a huge wall map that you could stare at for hours.)
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Edith
Shipmate
# 16978
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Posted
For all map lovers Map the Nation by Rachel Hewitt is a must. It's a biography of the Ordnance Survey and quite fascinating.
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Edith
Posts: 256 | From: UK | Registered: Mar 2012
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
A few years ago, D. rescued a pile of elderly maps from a waste-paper basket in the theological college where he teaches, and we have several of them on the walls of the staircase going up to the top floor of our house. They date from the 1940s and 50s and really are rather lovely.
We sometimes find the atlas useful when doing Grauniad crosswords: we were doing an Araucaria "alphabetical jigsaw" crossword recently where one set of clues were all islands ![[Smile]](smile.gif) , and once we'd exhausted ones we'd actually heard of, we started scouring the gazetteer and the atlas to find the rest.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Charles Baudelaire Le Voyage
http://fleursdumal.org/poem/231
Grateful thanks! I have put the bit you posted beside the framed map at our cabin, beside Sea Fever.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Glad to help.
Baudelaire and Masefield must be at the opposite end of some sort of spectrum!
When I was young I was endlessly fascinated by the map of Middle Earth in the first two volumes of Lord of the Rings. What on earth was to the east? (I suppose if I waded through The Simillarion I'd find out.)
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Thanks. Where can I find out what and who were meant to inhabit those bits to the South and East?
(I was a great Tolkien enthusiast in my teens. Re-reading it a few years back put my off all the heroic stuff with elves and humans talking cod King James - I preferred the suburban hobbits, the ents and Tom Bobadil.)
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Upper left hand quadrant.
I hope that they drew upon JRRT's own sketches for this -- it is not familiar to me. But you can see that it is vaguely like Eurasia, especially in the upper half -- that stuff to the far right definitely has a Japan look about it.
JRRT meant for the Shire to resemble Britain (with certain major exceptions, the cultivation of tobacco being the main one). Gondor and Ithilien are Italy; Mordor and points east are either Middle Eastern or Asiatic. But the further you get from the bits he was interested in the more dimly envisioned it is.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I know it's upper left but where exactly?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
I really love old maps of areas that I know well, so that I can see how the place has changed - which new roads have been created; how the housing has built up and so on.
A few years ago, the Royal Geographical Society had a display of old maps of Africa. A friend and I went there and we spent a really happy couple of hours wandering around and examining the maps in detail. Everyone else who came in was in and out in under 30 minutes. How could they possibly appreciate the utter joy of such maps in such a short space of time?
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
Also.....
There is no book written that couldn't be improved with a map or three. From Enid Blyton to Jane Austen and all stations inbetween - give me a few maps and I'll read the book for sure.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
The link allows you to hover over an area and click in. Alas only one click, but hover over the upper left and you can see where the old familiar map is, from LOTR.
The big problem with maps (especially the lovely fold-out maps) is that they are very costly to produce in a printed book. Also there has never been a satisfactory map in an e-book. The only possibility is a link to some larger map on a website somewhere.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
There is no book written that couldn't be improved with a map or three.
I read the Brother Cadfael mysteries with detailed maps of England and Wales alongside. It helps me visualize where people are going.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
Yay maps.
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I'm lost. Where's the Shire on that?
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I know it's upper left but where exactly?
See in the upper left where it says Eriador? Look at the line between the letters "as" and "d". That's the River Brandywine. Follow it north to a patch of dark green on its east. That's the Old Forest. The strip between the forest and the river is Buckland. The Shire is the area to the west about as far as the letter "i", maybe the letter "r" (I assume some of the hills below them represent a part of the Far Downs, the original western border of the Shire).
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
This is where I let on that the rubric for my next book reads: quote:
If you want a map, you must draw it yourself and keep it secret
Maps are critical part of the plot.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Brilliant, thanks Pancho.
Frodo and Sam could have saved themselves a lot of time if only they'd gone this way.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Brilliant, thanks Pancho.
Frodo and Sam could have saved themselves a lot of time if only they'd gone this way.
Oooo, that's awesome.
Here's New York City as a Middle-Earth map.
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I love it.
I have found that it is helpful to have a floor plan of buildings, for certain books. So that you know that Col. Mustard is in the library with the candlestick.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
The original Pocketbook novels often had maps on the inside.
And for map lovers, there's always the question of projections.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
When the Ordnance Survey switched from 1:63360 to 1:50000, I was slowly collecting the real inch to the mile series. Sadly they changed without giving me the chance to collect all the originals (I did ask).
Now the shelves are filling up with 1:50000 and 1:25000 maps, but are very far from, nowhere near, complete.
Curiously there are, or were, reprints of first edition inch to the mile maps. I think we are nearing the point where reprints of the last edition would have historical value.
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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