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Originally posted by Gramps49:
then take 14 days to 30 days to tour Europe.

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I wouldn't try to do all of it.

How do you intend travelling about? Hire car? Train?

What do you like? Scenery? History? Wine?

I've had several nice holidays in that part of Germany exploring the wine-growing areas around the Rhein and its tributaries, the Mosel and the Ahr. Or west, to Alsace, Strasbourg and the Vosges - another whole world. Bavaria, Thuringia, Berlin and environs. Any of these places could eat up as much time as you have.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Take into account the time of year you are going. January in Britain is probably not the best, weather-wise. Check the national calendars for holidays -- only a maniac tries to go to a British resort during a bank holiday weekend, and in August most of the French museums are closed. Also, if there is any keen local festival around your time (Oktoberfest in Germany is an example, or the Christmas fairs) you would wish to know about it.
 

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Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
What do you fancy most? History, culture, scenery? Are you happy being independent or would you like to join organised tours? Would you prefer to scratch the surface of several places (eg Paris//London/Berlin/Venice/Rome) or would you like to explore one or two countries in greater depth?

For example, some tours would have you claim to 'do' Britain in a week, take a gazillions photos, but not really spend longer than the click of a photo in any place (London-York-Edinburgh-LakeDistrict-Oxford-Bath-Stonehenge being one such 'circuit'). Similar tours no doubt of other countries - you'd see a lot, but might need a holiday to recover from it!

Do you have a particular interest in one thing - a family connection to a war cemetery, an ancestral village, or link to a family member's war service?
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
If it were me and I were anywhere in the vicinity, I'd go to the Berlin Library, a.k.a the Staatsbibliothek Berlin in Tiergarten. I have wanted to go there ever since watching the movie Wings of Desire (which, admittedly, had fabulous cinematography so as to make even the most prosaic place seem wonderful). The architecture is amazing. And, of course, there are All Those Books!

(Yeah, okay, my bibliomania occasionally pops up...)

It also happens to be in the Kulturforum (Cultural Forum), with art galleries, concert halls, etc.--so there is plenty to do if, for some unforeseeable reason, wandering amidst books bores you. But I can't imagine that.

Frankly, I would probably get a hotel (also in the nearby area) and spend a week or so just in that location. But that's me. Glancing at something and moving on has never been one of my strong attributes.
 

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Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
Heidelberg is a hop skip and jump from Frankfurt, well worth a visit


 

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Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :
 
Well since I am Lutheran, it stands to reason I will want to see some Lutheran holy places. Both of us have German/Dutch roots. It would be nice to see where those are at.

France--we may want a couple of days in France, we have some friends who live there we can probably stay with.

London. My surname comes from a township in Northampton area. That would be nice to see.

Scotland--wife has roots there

Catalonia would be a stretch, I think, but we hosted a student from there. IF she is in country, maybe.

A car would be great at least in Europe. Maybe train to Scotland.

So any suggestions along the way would be great. We want to do it on the cheap. If we cannot line up staying with friends, we would likely go Airbnb.
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
In that case you have to go to Weimar and see the Cranach altarpiece. And the up the road to Wartburg where they will show you the very stain where Luther threw his inkpot at the devil.

You realise Northhampton is nowhere near London? And Scotland is a whole other thing again?

Northern Germany and France (which bit, though?) could be a doable package. Crow-fly distances may not look that much to the American eye, but remember Europe is complicated. And dense.
 

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Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :
 
Do you realize 67 miles is just less than an average one way commute for me when I was working in Spokane. My maps say it is about an hour and 27 minutes Piece of cake. London to Glasgow takes about as long as if I go from my house cross Washington to my daughter's house for a long weekend. I think it would give us a good cross section of England and part of Scotland, though. Probably hit Northampton and then proceed to Glasgow for a weekend
 

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Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
You must remember that distances in the former Great Britain are short, but trust me when I say that a short hop from Edinburgh to York is about 3.5 hours on the train, and London is well served with trains but a car trip from London to Edinburgh can take the better part of a day. There are very few freeways in England and most of them are backed up to the gills. I still shudder at what should have been a hour trip to Heathrow ended up being an hour and 45 minutes. I scrambled to check in and made it by the skin of my teeth. (the quote for the taxi was 50/ and ended up being 100/ with a small tip.)
 

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Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
It's quite true that journeys by car require you to allow far more time (just in case) than they may actually take. But public transport in the UK is not that bad, unless you are unfortunate and hit a day when London tubes are on strike. Transport for London would inform.

Two other points from my 6 year residence in Belgium and Germany: Museums etc are shut on Mondays, and if you can get to one of the open-air museums which feature examples of houses from all periods, they are fascinating.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I used to commute between Sunderland and just outside London for the weekend; if you plan that journey on the same Google mapping tool you're looking at it takes 4 hours 12 minutes (4 hours 53 minutes to travel the extra 16 miles into London). I could only drive it in that time driving at night - 8:30pm to 1am, and on a good trip. During the working day that same trip took over 8 hours more often than not. That Google mapping tool is pretty optimistic.

Northampton is a good 2 hours drive from London, about an hour on the train. Much of that journey would be on the M1 motorway but a surprisingly long time will be spent crawling out of London and around Northampton on relatively twisty narrow roads (nothing compared with the Dorset lanes). If you want to get to somewhere outside Northampton by public transport you will need a cab or to use the fairly infrequent bus services.

The trains to Edinburgh don't stop much to take 5 hours (and you can get sleeper tickets), compared with the optimistic Google map driving time of 7 hours. Getting from Northampton to Edinburgh by car would take 6 hours plus by the same tool. By train it's quicker to go back into London and get the express trains back out. Cross country routes are much slower.

The way I buy train tickets I pay less than petrol. (Sleeper train to Inverness £40, Inverness to Aberdeen £5, Aberdeen to Glasgow £8.)
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gramps49:
Do you realize 67 miles is just less than an average one way commute for me when I was working in Spokane. My maps say it is about an hour and 27 minutes Piece of cake. London to Glasgow takes about as long as if I go from my house cross Washington to my daughter's house for a long weekend.

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quote:

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Scotland--wife has roots there

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariel:

Seriously, if you plan to visit Northampton from London, go by train. You are much more likely to arrive at your destination at the stated time.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Please note that is Ariel speaking a regular train user and a car driver who well knows that the UK trains often do not run to time.

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It depends what line you're on. I travel on some that are reliable.
 

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Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
I absolutely loved my visit to the area around Neuschwanstein Castle, built by king Ludwig, in South west Bavaria. You'll recognise it from movies ( Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and The Great Escape) and Disneyland's Sleeping Beauty Castle.
I stayed in Fussen, and it was worth getting up early to get my timed ticket. Another of Ludwig's palaces in the area is Linderhof which is also worth a visit.
 

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Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
However, compared to German trains....


Jengie
 

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Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
One word to know when traveling in Germany: Bier. The rest is details.

 

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Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
Bitte und danke are also useful. In reading, Herren and Damen are very useful.
 

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Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
Bitte und danke are also useful. In reading, Herren and Damen are very useful.

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A "friend" tried to convince me that "Herren" obviously mean Women (as in Her as opposed to Him), and that "Damen" mean Men (sort of a Brooklynese "The Men"). Luckily I had studied German in high school.

And yes, you should use "bitte" and "danke" before and after ordering Bier.


 

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Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
I absolutely loved my visit to the area around Neuschwanstein Castle, built by king Ludwig, in South west Bavaria. You'll recognise it from movies ( Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and The Great Escape) and Disneyland's Sleeping Beauty Castle.
I stayed in Fussen, and it was worth getting up early to get my timed ticket. Another of Ludwig's palaces in the area is Linderhof which is also worth a visit.
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Two beers are 'zweimal Bier' (two times beer). Another beer is 'noch ein Bier' (rather than 'ein anderes Bier' which would mean another, different, beer).

I think that's enough vocabulary to see you through.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie jon:
However, compared to German trains....

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I feel I should point out that many of the trains in Britain are run by German companies, mostly Deutsche Bahn. They include London Overground, Arriva, Cross Country, Chiltern, Northern, among others.

Punctuality on German railways isn't 100% either. Depending on what line you travel on, it can be somewhere near 86% which is actually lower than Great Western at 90%.
 

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Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :
 
If travelling by train, a Eurail pass (global or for Germany only) might be an option, link here, with further options for 1st or 2nd class seats. Should you be 60+, there's even an additional reduction because you qualify for Senior discount.

This site ('Beginner's guide to Eurail passes') has more advice, and pros and cons, on rail travel in Europe.

Not sure if local public transport like buses, trams and underground etc. are included in a Eurail pass, but the links might answer that.

Can't say much about renting a car in Germany, never having done that.

Have fun planning!

[ 31. July 2016, 09:35: Message edited by: Wesley J ]
 

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Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :
 
Hm... I just see that Eurail passes for senior citizens, and for Germany, may in fact cost the same as regular passes for adults. Still a very reasonable overall price though, I'd say.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
If you want to see a beautiful old German city, go to Marburg. It suffered much less damage during the war than most German cities.

Moo
 

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Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Very long ago, I went on a fairly brief trip to Europe. I don't know what may have changed. For Germany: When in Heidelberg, go to the castle. If in Nuremberg around Christmas, see if they still have the Kristkindl (Christchild) outdoor market. Go to the Schwarzwald (Black Forest), both for the scenery and for cuckoo clocks. Oberammergau probably still has the Passion play. I didn't see it, but I think it's in Lent. Some German towns had amazing murals throughout town--generally on a theme. IIRC, one had German fairy tales, and there may have been Christ's life in another one. (Oberammergau?)

Are you familiar with travel host/writer Rick Steves? I think he's based in Seattle. He's been doing guidebooks, TV shows, and tours for decades. His shows run on PBS stations. He'd be a good resource for you.
 

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Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :
 
Ich habe vor vielen Jahren studierte Deutsch, und wir haben die deutschen Studenten veranstaltet , damit ich ein paar deutsche Ausdrücke kennen. Ich kann nur die Zeit nehmen, meine Sprechfähigkeit zu aktualisieren , bevor wir gehen .

Euro -Schiene ist eine Möglichkeit. Mit Blick auf alle Optionen .
 

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Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :
 
Hint: Hey Gramps, as beeindruckend (= impressive) this is, ehem, The Powers Wot Be won't like if you don't translate it into English.

(Happened to me long ago, too. )

Ich sage ja nur! (= Just sayin'!)
 

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Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :
 
I think it's brilliant that you have some notions of German, Gramps! In my experience, they really appreciate your effort. And you may hear back some very interestingly phrased, stressed and pronounced English. - Also, well done (in my opinion) for choosing not to do too much, like several countries in one go. A wise decision!

Looking forward to hearing how your travel plans develop over the next few months!
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Darn it Wesley J, that has neatly stopped me from going all OTT!

He's right Grampian, a translation is in order, please.

Thanks - WW - AS Host
 

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Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :
 
Was speaking to our current German student today auf Deutsch. She was so kind, not to laugh at me and was willing to correct my German where necessary. She is going to be with us just two months, though.

Her English is impeccable. She said while she learned English throughout her schooling she was not really good at it until she worked six months in Australia.
 

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Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :
 
Out of curiosity, our German student has an almost mid Western American accent. I am thinking she probably came from the old American sector. Do Germans who come from the old British sector have a British accent.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
We hired an Italian tour guide, when we visited Herculaneum in Italy. He had learned his English in Britain, and the admixture of cockney with Italian was very difficult to understand.
 

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Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Golden Key:
Oberammergau probably still has the Passion play. I didn't see it, but I think it's in Lent. Some German towns had amazing murals throughout town--generally on a theme. IIRC, one had German fairy tales, and there may have been Christ's life in another one. (Oberammergau?)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gramps49:
Out of curiosity, our German student has an almost mid Western American accent. I am thinking she probably came from the old American sector. Do Germans who come from the old British sector have a British accent.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gramps49:
Out of curiosity, our German student has an almost mid Western American accent. I am thinking she probably came from the old American sector. Do Germans who come from the old British sector have a British accent.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
A lot of Germans among them, yes.

I myself speak German with a Norwegian accent. Guess what my teacher was?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kittyville:
When I was an exchange student in Germany some 30 years ago, we had great difficulty persuading our German counterparts that their (German national) English teacher's pronunciation of "clothes" as "clothès" was not one known to any native English speaker.

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