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Do NOT burst out laughing when a parishioner tells you you're not authorised to preach a sermon because you're female. The uproarious laughter may discombobulate the neighbouring tables in the cafe.

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Hosts should feel free to enquire as to what the purpose of a thread is if it's unclear from the opening post. In particular, if the OP does not seem to lend itself to discussion, the poster should be invited to outline what they intended Shipmates would discuss (assuming that they did, in fact, have such an intention). In most parts of the Ship this enquiry needs to be polite. Hellhosts, of course, are free to express themselves in whatever manner they see fit.

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Summon all the frustration you felt about being told you were too stupid to pass basic science classes in school, know that it was all part of The Devil's plan, and use it to power the righteousness of your truth-yelling whenever your views about Young Earth Creationism are challenged by small children who just found out about how awesome dinosaurs were.

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Remember that ordination confers total rightness to you. You are then above the law, above contradiction, because any criticism of you is then criticism of Gods Church, and so of God.

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It is entirely sufficient to repeat scripture verbatim. All the interpretation necessary has already been done by the experts who constructed the version you are reading.

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

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Remember that ordination confers total rightness to you. You are then above the law, above contradiction, because any criticism of you is then criticism of Gods Church, and so of God.

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What happens when I am ordained p5.

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Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
I didn't realise Hell was for discussion. I thought it was for bitching and angry rants.

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Originally posted by orfeo:

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Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
I didn't realise Hell was for discussion. I thought it was for bitching and angry rants.

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We didn't get one of those either. I haven't a damn clue whether Evensong was trying to say this was something she read, this was something that happened, this was something she was told would happen. And exactly what she's outraged about.

I can make some guesses, but I'm peeved about having to guess.

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Be wary of using humour in sermons and in general conversations with the brethren as many may not share your sense of humour. You must be especially cautious if you are were raised by the English when others were not. At all costs, do NOT use humour when referring to other clergy present when preaching your second ever sermon. You may even find yourself placement-less and developing a reputation as a "difficult student". All is not lost however. A particularly inimitable priest that likes a challenge may just take you on as a Curate - even after a Bishop's warning.

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A steaming pile of odourous crap dressed up in spiritual words is still a steaming pile of crap.

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continued from pg 35 ... always keeping in mind that a good sermon should be at least 45 minutes long. Congregants like to feel they are "getting their money's worth." If your original idea is running short even after cross referencing scriptures and several practical examples, remember you can always fill out the required time slot with inspirational stories easily found on the internet from sites such as Touching Christian Stories. There's no need to tie these together with a common theme or "point." The closing hymn should provide that final thought to take home.

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I am so over this.

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Ultimately, it doesn't matter. If you've gotten this far and can still pretend to believe, you'll do just fine. Because nobody actually cares about your interesting doubts, just so long as you reaffirm their crippling certainties. So cram that wafer in their gob, or splatter them with snake oil, or hook them up to the E-meter, and tell them whatever they want to hear.

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Originally posted by orfeo:

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I am so over this.

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- orfeo diary entry 8/6/15.

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Always remember that each and every person is made in God's image - even those with a tendency to legalism and melodrama.

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Originally posted by RooK:

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Ultimately, it doesn't matter. If you've gotten this far and can still pretend to believe, you'll do just fine. Because nobody actually cares about your interesting doubts, just so long as you reaffirm their crippling certainties. So cram that wafer in their gob, or splatter them with snake oil, or hook them up to the E-meter, and tell them whatever they want to hear.

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- Afterword - RELIGION FOR DUMMIES... (aw, shit - turns out that's a real book)

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You will be challenged left right and centre by people who believe that being a Christian is a load of tosh. Be gentle with them. They have likely been burnt by bad theology - plenty of it around. The church has much to be repentant of. But don't despair - engagement is much better than indifference; especially from the odd agnostics that shout loud in your direction because they have something of a feeling for the transcendent.

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Never, ever, attempt to move, change, repaint, reconfigure or dispose of any item of church equipment or furniture, irrespective of its condition, value or utility; nor make any such suggestion to senior church staff, whether lay or ordained.

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

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Remember that ordination confers total rightness to you. You are then above the law, above contradiction, because any criticism of you is then criticism of Gods Church, and so of God.

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What happens when I am ordained p5.

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Remember: the last Minister was always better than the one you have now, however you disliked him/her at the time. S/he was the better preacher, the more diligent visitor, the more organised administrator, the better reconciler. Lose no opportunity of making sure that your present Minister knows this (preferably by innuendo rather than by direct comment). And make sure that the denominational hierarchy are kept well-informed of his/her deficiencies.

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Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Remember: the last Minister was always better than the one you have now ...

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This rule was copied to the Organists' Handbook, with the proviso that the rule doesn't necessarily apply to the immediate predecessor*, but can go back several generations.



* "That's not the way X used to do it", when everyone knows that (a) the choir was rubbish in X's day, and (b) that he died circa. 1975.

[ 08. June 2015, 17:30: Message edited by: Piglet ]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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The congregation have memories that go back further than written records, remembering every single event in the church for the last hundred year or more. Accuracy and consistency may not be the major features of this memory, but utter tenacity is

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
"We haven't done it like that before"...

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That's not the tradition here

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Unwritten local traditions are more binding than well-known denominational and ecclesial ones. But you'll never discover them until you break them, and even then no-one will inform you directly.

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You must now amp things up to the next level. Rush around with your arms in the air, with crocodile tears if necessary. Slap yourself around the face until you have red cheeks. Faint outrageously in front of the main detractors.

Let nothing get in your way, the objective here is simple: winning. Those bastards didn't listen when you did things quietly and politely, now is the time to make them listen. No amount of histrionics is too much.

Eventually someone will find a chair and make you tea. You have won.

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Originally posted by Tubbs:
Radical changes to the church's constitution or changes to the hymnals (red or blue?) etc will go through the meeting in double quick time and soon be forgotten.

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Originally posted by Evensong:

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Originally posted by orfeo:

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I am so over this.

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- orfeo diary entry 8/6/15.

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Always remember that each and every person is made in God's image - even those with a tendency to legalism and melodrama.

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- "The Ordinand's Rule Book. Pg 21, Rule # 561."

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There will never be somewhere big enough to to hide all the bodies ...

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If you are brought into a slightly divided parish by one group to Fulfil An Agenda, delivering on that Agenda will divide the parish far more and leave it in a ruinous state.

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Originally posted by Tubbs:
... "Paintgate" will be remembered, unforgiven long after you've left ...

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You may jest; at a church of my (slight) acquaintance there was the most almighty row because someone bought and donated some salt and pepper pots without consultation*.

* Presumably the required consultation was with the ACW or Ladies' Guild or whatever; I doubt that even in this bureaucratic age you need a Faculty for salt-and-pepper pots.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Before taking on a parish, read all of the material about it, look at what the parish is saying that they want you to do, and build a plan based on your skills and talents to fulfil all of the requirements, and make the church an important place locally and nationally.

Remember while doing this that none of it will happen, because you will spend all of your time negotiating around a non-congregants graveyard request, which will be your lasting legacy.

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Any item with a brass (or other) commemorative plaque on it, denoting that it was given "in loving memory", may not be - irrespective of condition or utility - disposed of, moved, shoved into a high cupboard, repainted or otherwise interfered with without the explicit written confirmation of at least 3 of said person's surviving relatives and the approval of a minimum of 98% of the current congregation.

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Originally posted by mr cheesy:

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You must now amp things up to the next level. Rush around with your arms in the air, with crocodile tears if necessary. Slap yourself around the face until you have red cheeks. Faint outrageously in front of the main detractors.

Let nothing get in your way, the objective here is simple: winning. Those bastards didn't listen when you did things quietly and politely, now is the time to make them listen. No amount of histrionics is too much.

Eventually someone will find a chair and make you tea. You have won.

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from Brother Machiavelli's Guide to the Tea Rota

Chapter 6: When Those on the Rota are Making Conversation Not Tea

Paragraph titled: When Gentle Hints Do Not Work

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Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
From the same book, chapter 4:

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Any item with a brass (or other) commemorative plaque on it, denoting that it was given "in loving memory", may not be - irrespective of condition or utility - disposed of, moved, shoved into a high cupboard, repainted or otherwise interfered with without the explicit written confirmation of at least 3 of said person's surviving relatives and the approval of a minimum of 98% of the current congregation.

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Originally posted by M.:
Ah, I've sat in too many rancorous church meetings discussing whether we should move the forsythia bush from one side of the doorway to the other* to take this thread as humourous.

M.

*Went on for about 18 months, perhaps 2 years?

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• Congregations reserve the right to have endless re-runs of decisions made at the church meeting if they don’t get the outcome they wanted first time.
• Should the congregation not realise the consequences of a specific decision, even if it was pointed out to them during the meeting / mentioned in material circulated before the meeting / mentioned in the minutes circulated afterwards, this is the Minister’s fault. Same applies if it turns out to be a stupid idea.
• Should the decision be a resounding success, this is because congregational government rocks! Nothing to do with the Minister whatsoever.
• The amount of heat and light a decision causes will be in reverse proportion to its importance.

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Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Which Names Should Be Allowed To Go In The Memorial Book was a good one I remember.

(Tangent – when the memorial book was instituted, a note went in the church newsletter “If anyone wants someone put in the memorial book, please see Wendy”. I wasn’t sure if that meant Wendy was willing to bump people off on request.)

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Originally posted by Ricardus:
Remember that the Choir are your enemies.

Whatever they say, they are plotting against you.

Don't listen to them - they are only trying to trap you.

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Even without experience or direct training you will be expected to provide IT support on all church related matters

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