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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: all the good in me is dead
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
This is not about one person, but the fact that we are now talking about one person is a step forward compared to describing them as nameless marauding migrants.
This man is crying in a morgue. His two small boys and wife lie dead on the slab. They died because he is a Syrian. He left his home town in fear of bloody-thirsty killers. He left Turkey in fear of a people who hate Kurds. He now has nothing to do but take his family back to Syria, and most likely cover their bodies with his own.
This family sits on a train outside Keleti Railway Station. Jostled by police wearing riot gear, they are kept on a sweltering train without water. Eventually the train moves and the family is taken away, to a destination unknown, out of sight of the international media.
Meanwhile the politicians all make speeches and the newsmen all take notes. Telling their people at home that they're giving an "immense contribution" to the refugee crisis - at the same time doing everything they can to avoid doing anything whatsoever.
What about Russia? What about the Gulf States? What about.. who fucking cares about your what-abouts?
What is this - 1930? For fucks sake.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
I don't want to blame someone else. I want to do something myself to make it better. But I don't know what to do. What's the best thing to do?
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
There is probably nothing you can do except sit there and cry for the world we've created.
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arse
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
There are plenty of people who are now working to help refugees in different ways. I know people who are going to Calais to take stuff to the people there; there are people with petitions; people knitting clothes; buying baby-carriers for people in Kos; many demonstrations have been called in the next few days; local groups are springing up to help refugees; thousands of Germans are taking food and clothes to newly arrived Syrians.
I take heart from this. Many politicians have lost their moral bearings and their compassion.
[ 03. September 2015, 16:06: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Don't mourn; organize.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
I've now seen your All Saints thread and volunteered for my local group to help with sorting and packing donations this weekend.
Thank you.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
There is, reportedly, someone to blame.
It shames me as a Canadian to admit it, but there was a group in Canada trying to sponsor this family to come to Canada. But it met so many government-created roadblocks (created since the present government came to power about 10 years ago) that the process was either totally frustrated or was still mired in bureaucracy.
And the government -- like that of the UK, taking David Cameron as its representative -- is saying that what matters is dealing with the causes of the refugee crisis, and so ignoring the fact that these are real people. dying in real time. And both Prime Ministers are quietly but definitely said to be Christians.
We're in the middle of an election campaign in which this has already become an issue in Canada. I'd think that people outside the country might seek ways of letting the Canadian government (the diplomats) know just what this has done to the image of the country abroad -- they'll pass the message along.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I suppose we could do what 10,000 Icelanders have done in response to their government's paltry proposal.
Action like this isn't natural for politicians because they pander to the lowest common denominator, but I'd like to think that lager-swilling, Sun reading, white-van drivers* aren't in the majority, and that there is some generosity and kindness around.
*If they can indulge in stereotyping, so can I.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Expecting politicians to do something that is morally correct, but doesn't make them richer is a waste of time.
But do we really have to have a picture of a dead child to make us do something? Are we that sick? I never want to see pictures of dead children.
There are things we can do - mainly local stuff to make a small difference, all of which makes a big difference.
Oh yes, and get those heartless, manipulative bastards out of power. In this country, we have not lost our caring nature, our compassion for others, our generosity of spirit. Sadly, we have leaders and spokespeople who have sold their souls for power.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
It seems to me that the correct response is not collecting stuff to drive to somewhere-or-other but being prepared to welcome the bedraggled, war-worn, emotionally broken stranger into our own home and our own lives.
Being prepared to say fuck you to the powers and structures and policies that promote middle-class sub-Christian values - which amount to ensuring that we're aOK whilst others around us struggle and die. Being prepared to stand out and stand up against the crowd of fucking idiots who seem to think they've a God-given right to enjoy lives of luxury whilst others suffer.
I hope this marks the downfall of UKIP and all who share and promote the ideology of hate.
Thank goodness for the Germans (and Swedes, Icelanders and others) who have shamed the rest of Europe with generosity.
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arse
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Apparently the early reports suggesting they'd applied for asylum in Canada were incorrect. Just FYI.
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arse
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
The National Post report is that their Canadian family had made the application for admission and the file was rejected. In my experience (having worked in the field many many years ago), an MP's written request handed to the minister in person is taken very seriously and handled expeditiously. Back in the 1980s, MPs did this very rarely and in my former RL I had to follow up on requests from opposition members (another colleague dealt with Liberal MPs) and with one exception, they were brought in ASAP. I was a bit surprised that Mr Alexander did not do this, but perhaps these things have changed.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
Latest story on CBC says they did and were refused. Sponsor was the father's sister in BC.
Father was offered unconditional immediate citizenship, even before his son was buried (his wife and other son drowned and their bodies are still at sea). He refused.
Announcement of an important declaration about the security and integrity of the Canadian immigration system by a very senior Conservative Minister, scheduled for today as part of the election campaign has now been cancelled. The minister of immigration has been recalled to his office from the campaign trail. THe prime minister cancelled a news conference planned for this morning (five questions only), but will be making an important announcement later today.
If it weren't so tragic, it would be funny.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I hope this marks the downfall of UKIP and all who share and promote the ideology of hate.
So you think it was an ideology of love from new Labour that sent bombs and bullets into Iraq to de-throne Sadam ?
An action directly leading to the destabalization of half the middle- fuckin-East and the current mass exodus of civilians.
I applaud you for offering your home to a migrant. I might be inclined to the same. But then the question arises, would we be prepared to take another next month, another two the month after that..............?
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
@OP
There's a world weariness in your post. Is there an angel weeping or holding a sword? Or both? Either way, what do you expect? A miracle or something?
Do these things just happen? Or is there a insidious plan motivated by the methods of disaster capitalism?
We need something that will light each tiny speck in the human kaleidoscope with hope. No point in waiting on a miracle or for Jesus' brother Bob.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
What saddens me even more is that in nine days' time something else will have taken over as the topic of the day. I was fundraising for refugees this time last year, whose stories were as harrowing, but few wanted to know.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
So it now appears that some of the reports were wrong and Canada didn't do anything wrong in this specific case.
However, the attention to the case in Canada, partly because of the early incorrect reports, has had what seems to be a major impact on the election campaign. People are now actually talking about treatment of refugees and our response to the crisis in Syria.
It is unfortunate but true that it is a lot easier to focus on one real person than on 100,000 equally deserving people in a group. This poor boy, his mother and brother -- and the surviving family, seem to have done this in Canada.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
This.
quote:
You want to be outraged? Be outraged at your own politicians. Hold your government accountable for its foreign policy in the Middle East. March and demonstrates in the streets of your nations’ capital. Ayla is dead because George Bush; Assad; ISIS; European angst about refugees. Hold your government accountable for its action on refugee issues.
You want to be part of the solution? Put pressure in whatever way you can on the UN to step up, both in Syria, in the immediate peripheral countries, and in refugee receiving countries. Same for NGOs and relief organizations. Stop wasting your money on the orphanages and the youth groups to Uganda or Cambodia. For goodness sake, stop buying shoes and trinkets from organizations with wacky programme models, and do support organizations who actually work with Syrian IDPs and refugees.
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arse
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
If the UN does anything, the USA should pay the bill for it because it destabilized Iraq in the first place.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
A UKIPper has tried to apologise for simply saying what UKIP have always stood for and always will.
The problem is that many millions of people in this country agree with him 100%. Selfish bastards.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
A UKIPper has tried to apologise for simply saying what UKIP have always stood for and always will.
The problem is that many millions of people in this country agree with him 100%. Selfish bastards.
And another one, or at least someone claiming to be a UKIP supporter, has posted a video on YouTube peddling the story about them trying to get to Europe (wrong) so the father could get new teeth. To be fair he's not the only one spouting that drivel. (Sorry Hosts, I realise you have to watch that - feel free to delete if you wish) ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
If the UN does anything, the USA should pay the bill for it because it destabilized Iraq in the first place.
Historically speaking - when the UN does anything, we foot the vast majority of the bill in any case.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
If the UN does anything, the USA should pay the bill for it because it destabilized Iraq in the first place.
Hear hear to that.
But hey yeah, in the meantime let's all use those wicked Ukip lot as the whipping boy and make ourselves feel a whole lot better.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
Much of the blame for these drownings can be placed directly at the door of sanctimonious narcissistic pseudo-compassionate liberals. It is not possible for Western countries to host everyone who wants to live in them. If they did then half the population of Africa and Asia would move to Europe and the host countries would simply be overwhelmed and collapse.
Everyone understands this. Where the disagreement lies is in how to manage the process. One is to recognise the reality that there has to be limits on the numbers accepted, have a legal process to manage it and turning away people who try to come by illegal routes. Australia has successfully managed to stop the drownings off its coast in this way.
Another way it to pretend that there are no limits, say that more or less anyone who arrives by any route can stay in Europe legally and indeed that anyone rescued en route will not be sent back but will also be taken to Europe and allowed to stay. At the same these rules are put in place when it is perfectly well known that there are far fewer legal routes than there are people willing to come to stay. The limits are therefore put in place not by legal limitations but by limiting it to those people willing to go down the expensive and dangerous route of being smuggled in. This then leads to more and more of the kinds of tragedies we see in the news.
The kind of sanctimonious and narcissistic liberal attitude we see displayed here by people like mr cheesy and Sioni Sais has a direct share of the blame for these disasters.
Posts: 635 | Registered: Jun 2015
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stumbling Pilgrim:
(Sorry Hosts, I realise you have to watch that - feel free to delete if you wish)
I compromised and watched it with the sound off.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
And for the record UKIP has been consistently against the military interventions and destabalisations in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afganistan and elsewhere that have been the other main driving factor of this crisis.
Posts: 635 | Registered: Jun 2015
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
It seems to me that the correct response is not collecting stuff to drive to somewhere-or-other but being prepared to welcome the bedraggled, war-worn, emotionally broken stranger into our own home and our own lives.
This.
If I were a refugee I would want someone to care for me until I could care for myself again.
We were once stranded in another country with nothing but the clothes we stood up in (it had all been stolen including the money and passports). I realised then that we all have a deep need for one thing - people who care when we are in need!
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Never pass an opportunity to show how much of a fucking pissant you are, eh, Biblofascist.
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arse
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
So it now appears that some of the reports were wrong and Canada didn't do anything wrong in this specific case.
However, the attention to the case in Canada, partly because of the early incorrect reports, has had what seems to be a major impact on the election campaign. People are now actually talking about treatment of refugees and our response to the crisis in Syria.
It is unfortunate but true that it is a lot easier to focus on one real person than on 100,000 equally deserving people in a group. This poor boy, his mother and brother -- and the surviving family, seem to have done this in Canada.
John
In, I suppose, offhand defense of Harper, I am going to speculate that refugees were turned back under Chretien, Mulroney, Trudeau, etc as well. And that some of them likely met unfortunate, albeit unphotographed, demises during their further travels.
Not a Harper supporter at all, but I'm always a little wary when one photograph(and it's usually a photograph) suddenly focuses attention on something that has been going on for a long long time, and people react with "My God, what's this world coming to?" hand-wringing.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Never pass an opportunity to show how much of a fucking pissant you are, eh, Biblofascist.
Perhaps we could swap him for a refugee. You know, someone more deserving and compassionate.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
We've only got one come out of the woodwork here. In other places, where he would feel more at home, there are many more. I'm not keen on his use of "everybody" as in "everybody knows", and "we" where he singles out mr cheesy and Sioni Sais as examples of people due a string of unpleasant adjectives.
Just to join in, tomorrow I am delivering a bunch of stuff to the Calais Aid people. It's a bit like the end of the chorus of "One man went to mow", ending with a frying pan.
I'm not sure how much good it will do, and until this morning I was not so keen to do anything for the young men, but someone pointed out that they needed to escape being drafted into militia not of their choosing, and I realised the corollary was that if they stayed, weaponless, they would end up in mass graves, probably not after a humane death. It is the job that's nearest.
And I've been trying to work out how I could re-organise my home, but I can't, and I need to keep the ability to put up a friend at short notice if he needs respite. But I feel bad about it.
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
We've only got one come out of the woodwork here. In other places, where he would feel more at home, there are many more. I'm not keen on his use of "everybody" as in "everybody knows", and "we" where he singles out mr cheesy and Sioni Sais as examples of people due a string of unpleasant adjectives.
I don't like it when organisations like the EU promote policies that result in dead children and then the same people use those same dead children for propaganda. Do you think that's as bad using a pronoun you're not keen on? Thanks for making my point.
Posts: 635 | Registered: Jun 2015
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
The kind of sanctimonious and narcissistic liberal attitude we see displayed here by people like mr cheesy and Sioni Sais has a direct share of the blame for these disasters.
In that the policies I wish for are only carried out partially and half-heartedly by governments crying crocodile tears, then that is true.
btw, I'm not a liberal. Or a Liberal and definitely not a US style librul. Do that again and I'll have to borrow one of the host's rusty farm implements.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
btw, I'm not a liberal. Or a Liberal and definitely not a US style librul. Do that again and I'll have to borrow one of the host's rusty farm implements.
I'm using the term liberal as a shorthand way of saying 'liberal and anything to the left of liberalism'. Given that ideologies to the left of libaralism (e.g. socialism, marxism etc) tend to be outgrowths of liberalism I don't think its an unjustifiable shorthand. I haven't seen you or mr cheesy criticise 'liberalism' from the right so you both fall into that category.
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
btw, I'm not a liberal. Or a Liberal and definitely not a US style librul. Do that again and I'll have to borrow one of the host's rusty farm implements.
I'm using the term liberal as a shorthand way of saying 'liberal and anything to the left of liberalism'. Given that ideologies to the left of libaralism (e.g. socialism, marxism etc) tend to be outgrowths of liberalism I don't think its an unjustifiable shorthand. I haven't seen you or mr cheesy criticise 'liberalism' from the right so you both fall into that category.
Then you are using the term sloppily, but we're used to that. Suggesting that Marxism is an outgrowth of liberalism is so inaccurate as to be laughable, except that we know you are serious and sincere. It is that seriousness, certainty and sincerity that makes you, and others like you, so dangerous because you are blind to your own prejudices and stupidity.
As I may have suggested before, you clearly had very poor potty-training and a lack of affirmation as a child. That has led you to a need to externalise any deficiencies. I'm actually sorry for you.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
Australia has successfully managed to stop the drownings off its coast in this way.
Yeah. And replaced them with rape, children attempting suicide and so forth in detention centres.
But hey, at least they're still alive, right? Well, except for the one that we think was beaten to death by a guard in Papua New Guinea.
I am heartily sick of my government suggesting that stopping the boats represents the sum total of stopping the refugee problem, and that as long as people are still alive somewhere else we don't have to think about what kind of life they are living.
The entire point of the Refugee Convention is a commitment to treat problems in other parts of the world as our problem.
[ 05. September 2015, 00:36: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
btw, I'm not a liberal. Or a Liberal and definitely not a US style librul. Do that again and I'll have to borrow one of the host's rusty farm implements.
I'm using the term liberal as a shorthand way of saying 'liberal and anything to the left of liberalism'. Given that ideologies to the left of libaralism (e.g. socialism, marxism etc) tend to be outgrowths of liberalism I don't think its an unjustifiable shorthand. I haven't seen you or mr cheesy criticise 'liberalism' from the right so you both fall into that category.
Then you are using the term sloppily, but we're used to that.
I suppose a better shorthand term for the category 'liberalism plus everything to the left of liberalism' would simply be 'the left', unless you have a better shorthand term for that category you could suggest.
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Suggesting that Marxism is an outgrowth of liberalism is so inaccurate as to be laughable
Of course its accurate. Marx and earlier socialists were all people who supported the liberalism of their time but just didn't think that it went far enough. They supported liberalism's opposition to the right, their criticism of it was that it didn't oppose the right enough.
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Suggesting that Marxism is an outgrowth of liberalism is so inaccurate as to be laughable
Of course its accurate. Marx and earlier socialists were all people who supported the liberalism of their time but just didn't think that it went far enough. They supported liberalism's opposition to the right, their criticism of it was that it didn't oppose the right enough.
...dude. Just quit now, while you're behind. You don't have to keep digging a deeper hole. Some of us here have read Marx, or radical political theory—the kind of stuff that talks about the "false dichotomy presented by liberal capitalism." If you're trying to equate Sioni et al with Marxists, you very clearly haven't got a fucking clue what either liberalism or Marxism are.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
I suppose a better shorthand term for the category 'liberalism plus everything to the left of liberalism' would simply be 'the left', unless you have a better shorthand term for that category you could suggest.
Not-fascists would seem to suffice. Liberalism is not a particularly left-wing ideology.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
And for the record UKIP has been consistently against the military interventions and destabalisations in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afganistan and elsewhere that have been the other main driving factor of this crisis.
They have also been pretty consistently opposed to international aid, which is the only credible alternative to accepting refugees.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
I suppose a better shorthand term for the category 'liberalism plus everything to the left of liberalism' would simply be 'the left', unless you have a better shorthand term for that category you could suggest.
Not-fascists would seem to suffice. Liberalism is not a particularly left-wing ideology.
You sound like one of those people who thinks that anyone to the right of Tony Blair is a fascist.
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Fuck off and die. Not everyone is a fascist, but you are you prick.
You should be ashamed.
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arse
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Suggesting that Marxism is an outgrowth of liberalism is so inaccurate as to be laughable
Of course its accurate. Marx and earlier socialists were all people who supported the liberalism of their time but just didn't think that it went far enough. They supported liberalism's opposition to the right, their criticism of it was that it didn't oppose the right enough.
...dude. Just quit now, while you're behind. You don't have to keep digging a deeper hole. Some of us here have read Marx, or radical political theory—the kind of stuff that talks about the "false dichotomy presented by liberal capitalism." If you're trying to equate Sioni et al with Marxists, you very clearly haven't got a fucking clue what either liberalism or Marxism are.
So are you saying that Marx and other 'radical political theorists' ever criticised liberalism on the grounds that 'it goes too far'? Because my very clear impression is that they criticised liberalism from the left i.e. they didn't think it went far enough. I wasn't saying that Sioni Sais and mr cheesy were necessarily marxists but it is fairly clear that any criticisms they have of liberalism are from the left.
Posts: 635 | Registered: Jun 2015
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Caring for refugees is not a Marxist idea. The idea of international legal rights of refugees was encouraged and developed by Conservatives, particularly Tories after the shame of how countries treated those fleeing war and persecution in 1930s Europe.
Not only are you fucking heartless, you have zero political and historical knowledge of the things you pontificate about.
We have a legal and moral responsibility to shelter refugees. Fact.
[ 05. September 2015, 09:36: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
This picture of recent Daily Mail covers came up on my Twitter feed - which sums up the attitude of the UK press.
There was a fascinating interview on the BBC R4 Today programme a few weeks back (11 August) discussing racism in schools following the conviction of a young man for a racially aggravated stabbing. One of the interviewees referred back to the media coverage of the "refugee crisis" and pointed out that was fuelling racism.
Our attitudes to refugees is making life more dangerous for other citizens of the UK.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
mr cheesy
Children are drowning because of policies supported by people like you
Posts: 635 | Registered: Jun 2015
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Like almost all UKIP supporters I have ever heard of, you are functionally illiterate, assign views to people they don't hold, assume a high intellectual standing for your own argument which is totally unwarranted and have a single track mind. In your case you have an additional disadvantage in that you are actually a fascist.
No, I have not created this crisis you pathetic pile of shite. Go live in Hungary, they like your lies there.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
mr cheesy
Children are drowning because of policies supported by people like you
Yeah, while withdrawing international aid and taking Britain out of a bloc that could theoretically provide a coordinated response will have no discernible effect on people's lives whatsoever.
(Yes, I agree the EU has been fairly crap at coordinating a response. It's hard to see how pulling out would make Europe more coordinated.)
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
mr cheesy
Children are drowning because of policies supported by people like you
You are one of the worst arguers on the Ship for a while. Really. All the nuance of a Wiggles song.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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