Ship of Fools: enough with the BBC Bowie coverage

Thread: enough with the BBC Bowie coverage Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

Yes, I know Bowie was a great artist with a lot of fans, particularly amongst 50-something white men who work at the BBC.

But on the main flagship radio programme this morning, there was (a) the Archbishop of Canterbury discussing the possible disintegration of the Anglican Communion and (b) the Leader of the Opposition giving a major interview on policy.

The breathless Justin Webb and Nick Robinson couldn't help themselves but rush through the interviews to the important part: come on Justin, now then Jeremy, what we really want to know is what you have to say about this Bowie news.

They're hardly going to say "Oh, I thought his music was shite" are they?

Elsewhere almost every other story was squeezed by J and N trying to elbow in Bowie references. Hundreds of refugees in danger of freezing to death at the French channel ports? Sorry, we're short of time as you'll understand due to this breaking news situation... now, back to the Bowie coverage. Junior Doctors.. nope, nothing important to say there, let's remind our listeners of Bowie's greatest hits.

FWIW, I can understand the shock, but I think this totally over-saturated "news" coverage (when there isn't actually anything much to say beyond what the family have said on social media) is pretty pathetic. Shame on the BBC.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Ground Control to Major Tom …

Posted by Bibaculus (# 18528) on :

I thought exactly the same. Bowie was before my time. I understand he might have been important to some people, but, let us be honest, its not like he has the cultural significance of, say, Nigel Blackwell from Half Man Half Biscuit.

There was a lengthy interview with someone who had interviewed Bowie for 45 minutes back in 2002 (I think he said), and thus was treated with the sort of reverence normally reserved for the Dali Lama. I turned it off at this stage, so didn't hear 'Thought for the Day', but doubtless taught invoked his memory too.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
let us be honest, its not like he has the cultural significance of, say, Nigel Blackwell from Half Man Half Biscuit.

That's got to be one of the best non-tributes I've ever heard.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Great quote from the great man: I wrote about the highlights of my life, loneliness, anxiety, abandonment. Yes, he did. Thanks in abundance.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

As the person who started the relevant AS thread, I have to object.

Of course current affairs are current affairs, and looking at the UK daily paper front pages on the BBC is truly depressing, dedicated massively as they are to reality TV "celebrities".

And I'm not a massive Bowie fan.

But he was incontrovertibly a genuine and original artist. In a world of endless forwards, likes and retweets, there are too few of them around.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
its not like he has the cultural significance of, say, Nigel Blackwell from Half Man Half Biscuit.

Them's fightin' words.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
But on the main flagship radio programme this morning, there was (a) the Archbishop of Canterbury discussing the possible disintegration of the Anglican Communion and (b) the Leader of the Opposition giving a major interview on policy.

And David Bowie is probably more important to more people than either of them. His death is certainly bigger news than either.

Posted by Rosa Gallica officinalis (# 3886) on :

I suspect that more people can name 10 Bowie songs than can name the current archbishop of Canterbury.

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
I turned it off at this stage, so didn't hear 'Thought for the Day', but doubtless taught invoked his memory too.

No, a straight down the line prayer for the Anglican communion as it happens, Bowie not even mentioned in passing.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
And David Bowie is probably more important to more people than either of them. His death is certainly bigger news than either.

I'm sure this is true, however it is like interviewing someone from the Environment Agency about the floods and at the end saying "So, what did you think of [insert popular celebrity show of the moment]?" on the basis that more people are interested in the show than the news.

There is absolutely no reason why the ABoC or Jeremy Corbyn should have an opinion worth repeating on national radio about the cultural influence of David Bowie.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
There is absolutely no reason why the ABoC or Jeremy Corbyn should have an opinion worth repeating on national radio about the cultural influence of David Bowie.

No. That way they can be criticised for being totally out of touch with contemporary culture [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Bibaculus (# 18528) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
[QUOTE]No. That way they can be criticised for being totally out of touch with contemporary culture

Does the 1970s count as 'contemporary?

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
]No. That way they can be criticised for being totally out of touch with contemporary culture

Right, I see - so forcing public figures to have opinions on popular music, which may in fact not be to their taste - is entirely legitimate, is it?

You'd rather Corbyn and Welby made up some nice-sounding shit on the spot about someone they know nothing about - rather than being honest and asking people about the issue that they're actually there to be interviewed about, would you?

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
Does the 1970s count as 'contemporary?

Sorry to break it to you, but he released a popular new album just weeks ago.

Posted by Pomona (# 17175) on :

Bowie was extremely popular with young people who feel or felt like outsiders. Most people I know who are mourning him are young LGBT women/nonbinary people of various races. Yeah there are 50something white men but Bowie was much more universal than that.

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
No. That way they can be criticised for being totally out of touch with contemporary culture
Does the 1970s count as 'contemporary?

I can't speak for the Labour Party, but I'm pretty sure it does in the church.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Right, I see - so forcing public figures to have opinions on popular music, which may in fact not be to their taste - is entirely legitimate, is it?

What pomona said. Whether you like him or not, ignorance of Bowie's influence on contemporary music and his resonance with particular subcultures indicates a troglodyte existence these past 50 years or so.

<pauses to put on "We can be heroes">

[ 11. January 2016, 11:53: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
Yeah there are 50something white men

One I know well is doing 25 years for murder. He'll be devastated
[Votive]

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
<pauses to put on "We can be heroes">

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
<pauses to put on "We can be heroes">
<pauses to put on "The Laughing Gnome">

To me that's inextricably linked to "Junior Choice". I see Ed Stewart has just died too [Frown]

I did "Space Oddity" à la "Secret Life of Walter Mitty" on my 12-string at an open mic night a couple of months back.

There's a big repertoire to choose from, isn't there?

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

It's very disorienting. Not just a major cultural figure of the past 50 years, but surely one of the great English artists. He expressed the lacrimae rerum (the tears in things) more than anyone that I know. I often play 'Where are we now?', very haunting.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

Besides, the papers wanted to know whose shirt Major Tom was wearing, so it seems only fair to quiz random figures about Bowie on t'radio...

Posted by Hail Mary (# 18531) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
Bowie was extremely popular with young people who feel or felt like outsiders. Most people I know who are mourning him are young LGBT women/nonbinary people of various races. Yeah there are 50something white men but Bowie was much more universal than that.

Perfectly said, Pomona, thank you.

[Votive]

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I think that's right, he made it OK to be an outsider, or he helped turned outsider art into an English cultural phenomenon of great importance. Not the only one of course, and going beyond English to a world figure, or world artist.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

I am white, but neither fifty-something, nor male.

David Bowie was a bloody genius.

Posted by Pomona (# 17175) on :

I am also white but not 50something or male. Really really sad at the news.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Alternative news channels are available.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jack the Lass:

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
No. That way they can be criticised for being totally out of touch with contemporary culture
Does the 1970s count as 'contemporary?
I can't speak for the Labour Party, but I'm pretty sure it does in the church.

I think you'll find the 1970s are the future.

Anyway, if you think this is bad, wait until McCartney goes...

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I've been watching TV for the past couple of hours and there hasn't been a single mention of Bowie. Maybe he didn't play snooker.

In fact, other than mentions on FB I would never have known.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Am I missing something about UK culture? An actual creative person, one of your own dies, it's not okay that your media attends to same? Was the attention to Diana your princess as awful for you?

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I've been watching TV for the past couple of hours and there hasn't been a single mention of Bowie. Maybe he didn't play snooker.

In fact, other than mentions on FB I would never have known.

You obviously don't listen to radio 4 then .... headline (1st up) on the 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock news

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

You know, I can be a right pain in the arse talking about injustice, but holy hell this is a ridiculous OP.

He's just died.

Every real problem not covered today because of his death will still be here tomorrow and still be in the news.

He remains a massively important figure in contemporary music even if he hadn't released anything in the last 30 years.

I'm not a massive Bowie fan, I like a few songs, but that is the extent. But he is one of the seminal figures in contemporary music despite my personal opinion of his music.

ETA: You do recognise the massive irony of starting this thread, no mr. cheesy?

[ 11. January 2016, 15:46: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I've been watching TV for the past couple of hours and there hasn't been a single mention of Bowie. Maybe he didn't play snooker.

In fact, other than mentions on FB I would never have known.

There was extensive coverage on BBC Breakfast (I'd guess about 10 mins per hour - which is almost as much as the coverage of flooding in Northern England and Scotland on some days over the last few weeks). Along with a 2-3 minute report on aid to Syria, 1-2 minutes on the man arrested in Ghana for the murder of an actress and some other news that didn't register.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
You do recognise the massive irony of starting this thread, no mr. cheesy?

If peace were to break out in the Middle East, me cheesy would find a way of whining about it.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Am I missing something about UK culture? An actual creative person, one of your own dies, it's not okay that your media attends to same? Was the attention to Diana your princess as awful for you?

Actually, there were complaints at the time, similarly when the Queen Mother died - people do *not* like their soaps being moved ...

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

One does not need to be an overt fan of the late Mr. Bowie to appreciate the value of connection in society. He connected a great many through art, across decades and genres. To mourn so significant a connection, and thus help cement some remnant of that connection, is part of the fabric of civilization.

Basically, go fuck yourself cheesy.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:

Basically, go fuck yourself cheesy.

Get some comprehension skills, freakface. I have no issues with people mourning a popular musician, I have issues when other important issues are brushed aside to maintain the decorum of saturation coverage on the BBC.

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

The breathless Justin Webb and Nick Robinson couldn't help themselves but rush through the interviews to the important part: come on Justin, now then Jeremy, what we really want to know is what you have to say about this Bowie news.

A quote from the Archbishop:

“I’m very, very saddened to hear of his death.

I remember sitting listening to his songs endlessly in the ‘70s particularly and always really relishing what he was, what he did, the impact he had.”

Given the age of the Archbishop there is no reason not to take him at face value, unless you are given to never taking the utterings of Archbishops at face value. Equally touching tributes have come from higher officials in the Vatican as well.

While I probably wouldn’t say this about the office of Archbishop, there is no question in my mind that David Bowie has had a larger and more lasting cultural influence than any individual Archbishop in the last century--and I’m not even particularly crazy about his music.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:

Given the age of the Archbishop there is no reason not to take him at face value, unless you are given to never taking the utterings of Archbishops at face value. Equally touching tributes have come from higher officials in the Vatican as well.

Right, but there is also no reason to suppose that a person of his age would have anything to say about David Bowie. The Archbish was not asked because he previously expressed a view nor did he volunteer the information, he was asked during an interview about something else altogether.

Even if Welby had a terrible dislike of this kind of music, he could hardly have said anything negative when put on the spot like that. It was fortunate that he actually had some good experiences to relate.

quote:
While I probably wouldn’t say this about the office of Archbishop, there is no question in my mind that David Bowie has had a larger and more lasting cultural influence than any individual Archbishop in the last century--and I’m not even particularly crazy about his music.

Possibly true, but also totally irrelevant to the point I'm making.

[ 11. January 2016, 16:22: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
David Bowie is probably more important to more people than either of them. His death is certainly bigger news than either.

Exactly.

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
While I probably wouldn’t say this about the office of Archbishop, there is no question in my mind that David Bowie has had a larger and more lasting cultural influence than any individual Archbishop in the last century--and I’m not even particularly crazy about his music.
Possibly true, but also totally irrelevant to the point I'm making.

Given that one of the things you seemed to be concerned about was the breakup of the Anglican Communion, I doubt it is “irrelevant”, though perhaps tangential.

There is also no real reason to believe the Archbishop was put on the spot; we have no clue what kind of chit-chat took place off camera. Most of these interviews, while not exactly scripted, are at least outlined beforehand to a point that neither party is likely to be surprised by anything said.

In 50 years, few will remember who the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Leader of the Opposition were in 2016. They will still be listening to music by David Bowie and influenced by David Bowie.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Am I missing something about UK culture? An actual creative person, one of your own dies, it's not okay that your media attends to same? Was the attention to Diana your princess as awful for you?

It was far worse. Have you any idea of the wall-to-wall coverage, the endless re-runs, the pull-out specials, the interviews, the speculation that went on, the floral tributes, the lengthy queues to sign books of condolences that sprung up everywhere (including my local Co-Op) or to add to the floral tributes, for weeks?

It's sad for Bowie's family and his fans but (and I may be alone in this) I think 8pp in tonight's Evening Standard is excessive.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Possibly true, but also totally irrelevant to the point I'm making.

And, your point is what?

As far as I can see the number of events in the UK and the world exceeds the time available for the BBC to report on all of them, which is also true every other day of the year. Therefore, the BBC editors make decisions on what stories they think will be of most interest to the majority of people and spend more time on those stories. Your complaint appears to be that the BBC editors don't phone you every morning to get your views on what stories to report. Because you clearly represent the entire audience of BBC news.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
You know, I can be a right pain in the arse talking about injustice, but holy hell this is a ridiculous OP.

He's just died.

Every real problem not covered today because of his death will still be here tomorrow and still be in the news.

He remains a massively important figure in contemporary music even if he hadn't released anything in the last 30 years.

Agree with this, except the last part. His last album dropped on Friday. And it's fucking brilliant. The one before that came out in 2013.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

The Beeb just did 20 minutes on him on their News Channel, and very good it was as well. It seems entirely appropriate as well to me, as Bowie is a major English artist, well, we could say a great English artist. We have to cherish them.

Posted by anne (# 73) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
There was a lengthy interview with someone who had interviewed Bowie for 45 minutes back in 2002 (I think he said), and thus was treated with the sort of reverence normally reserved for the Dali Lama.

This gem was followed by an interview with a woman who had lived with him for a few months in 1973 and hadn't seen him since.

The cultural importance of David Bowie is undeniable, but this morning's Today programme came across as a hot mess of "oh my goodness, my youth is over" from a couple of middle aged men who should have known better.

A decent obituary would have been great. Put it in as the first headline every bulletin, that's fine, that's an editorial choice. But three hours of this "OMG I loved Bowie sooooooo much, good morning Mr Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition, how much did you love David Bowie?" nonsense was pathetic.

Anne

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
And, your point is what?

My point is exactly as Anne expresses above.

[ 11. January 2016, 16:50: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]

Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :

Unless political figure interviews are more informative in the UK, I would expect talking about David Bowie would be much more interesting.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
And, your point is what?
My point is exactly as Anne expresses above.

And, as I said earlier there are other news channels. You don't have to watch the BBC News all day.

Personally, most of my BBC News comes from the website. Where I pick what to read instead of following what an editor thinks would be the best way to fill the slot between 6 and 6.30.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
And, as I said earlier there are other news channels. You don't have to watch the BBC News all day.

Who said anything about watching anything? I was talking about the flagship radio morning news programme. 3 hours of news from 6 to 9 am.

quote:
Personally, most of my BBC News comes from the website. Where I pick what to read instead of following what an editor thinks would be the best way to fill the slot between 6 and 6.30.

If you can't relate your comment to what I've actually written, don't be surprised if I can't respond to you.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
His last album dropped on Friday. And it's fucking brilliant. The one before that came out in 2013.

Too be clear, I meant if he had stopped, he would still be relevant for his influence.
I went to iTunes for a quick listen and saw the promo pic for Panic at the Disco!s new release. Brendon Urie looks like Jimmy Carr's love child in that.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Who said anything about watching anything? I was talking about the flagship radio morning news programme. 3 hours of news from 6 to 9 am.

The internet's full of it as well. Unlike Diana, it should only be 24 hours of saturation coverage, then back to normal.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Watched the BBC 6 o'clock news, a very handsome tribute to Bowie, which recognized that he was a great artist, not just a 'pop singer', and probably influenced many areas of culture. Oh damn, why has he gone?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I was never a big fan. Sad to see him go though.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
And, as I said earlier there are other news channels. You don't have to watch the BBC News all day.
Who said anything about watching anything? I was talking about the flagship radio morning news programme. 3 hours of news from 6 to 9 am.

TV, radio ... what's the difference? Three hours of news from 6am to 9am - BBC Breakfast or R4, more or less the same. Both have some editor who makes decisions about what stories to broadcast, and how much time to give them. And, you're still whinging that the decision wasn't what you wanted to listen to. The maxim "you can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time" holds true. This morning you were not part of the audience that was pleased. That's life, live with it. If it happens sufficiently often then maybe you need to find another radio station in the morning that hits the mark for you more often.

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
let us be honest, its not like he has the cultural significance of, say, Nigel Blackwell from Half Man Half Biscuit.

Some of us would argue that they were on a par. Mind, it's good to find another HMHB fan!

AG

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Who said anything about watching anything? I was talking about the flagship radio morning news programme. 3 hours of news from 6 to 9 am.
The internet's full of it as well. Unlike Diana, it should only be 24 hours of saturation coverage, then back to normal.

Oh golly, you don't want me to compare David Bowie to Diana. Really. You don't.

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

It's amusing to see cheesy try to pip people for "comprehension", and blathers on about how he doesn't mind people grieving - rather just the amount of attention it is getting such that it intrudes on other "important" things.

The idiot can't comprehend that Bowie's passing truly is important for a society of humans. We're paying attention to it because of our humanity, and the fundamental importance of such.

Again: go fuck yourself, cheesy, you protozoan-souled crust of smegma.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

The whole point of the Today programme on Radio 4 is that most people don't hear much of it. They have half an hour to an hour running in the background as they get up and leave for work. Their listening is interrupted by showering / washing, shaving, making and eating breakfast. That's why the main stories are repeated and presented in a variety of ways so that most people pick up the news in passing as they catch snatches of stories. It's not designed to be listened to for the full three hours of broadcast.

I heard the chunk from 6am to 7am and yes, Bowie was covered, but so was a range of other stuff, including the Anglican Communion and the interview with Archbishop Justin Welby, a big chunk on business news, the weather forecast, sport and football and the relief of Madaya from what I remember off the top of my head.

Bowie was amazing and influential and has been for 40 to 50 years. His death, particularly two days after releasing another critically well reviewed album, is news. The king of image has stage managed his own death and, as someone in the coverage said, demonstrated how to die well.

But tomorrow it will be yesterday's papers telling yesterday's news. And his songs will still be so iconic that an astronaut singing Space Oddity from the ISS can get nearly 30 million hits on Youtube.

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
[QUOTE]No. That way they can be criticised for being totally out of touch with contemporary culture
Does the 1970s count as 'contemporary?

I'm in my early 50's but listen to alternative music radio stations an on Spotify.

Listening through his songs from the 70's, many of them if released now would be considered part of today's alternative scene.

His influence on today's non-pop non-classical music is way bigger then any other artist. For that alone, he's worth commenting on by people who lived in the last 50 years.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

I was never into his music, but he was a phenomenon when I was growing up.

mr. cheesy, just wait. Some celeb you like will eventually die. Then you'll want to know about it.

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:

His influence on today's non-pop non-classical music is way bigger then any other artist. For that alone, he's worth commenting on by people who lived in the last 50 years.

I don't think the caveats are necessary. Two Philip Glass symphonies (1 and 4) are based on Bowie albums; in his work with Fripp and Eno, he helped influence the course of electronic music, both popular and classical; and, given his influence on glam rock/prog rock which later trickled down into metal/alternative/everything else, I'd say it's pretty hard to deny his influence on pop. He seems like something of a Frank Zappa figure—an experimenter who could never be pigeonholed into one particular kind of music, and influenced many.

So yes. It makes complete sense to note the passing of someone who's had a profound influence on Western art and culture over the last 40 years.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Am I missing something about UK culture? An actual creative person, one of your own dies, it's not okay that your media attends to same? Was the attention to Diana your princess as awful for you?

The "Diana's Death Got Too Much Coverage" crowd is just as self-righteous as this lot of po-faced people too fuckwitted to know how to change the channel.

quote:
If peace were to break out in the Middle East, me cheesy would find a way of whining about it.

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Your complaint appears to be that the BBC editors don't phone you every morning to get your views on what stories to report.

Exactly. As Lucy said to Linus who went outside to get away from her and was gazing at the sky, "I don't want to look at those stars. I want to look at *MY* stars."

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Who said anything about watching anything? I was talking about the flagship radio morning news programme. 3 hours of news from 6 to 9 am.

I never knew. I apologize. I thought everybody had a radio that was capable of picking up more than one frequency.

[ 12. January 2016, 00:48: Message edited by: mousethief ]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
And I'm not a massive Bowie fan.

But he was incontrovertibly a genuine and original artist. In a world of endless forwards, likes and retweets, there are too few of them around.

This.

I've been slowly exploring his albums over the last couple of years, and frankly I find them uneven. My impression is that, for my tastes at least, he was a better singles artist than albums artist.

But time and again in histories of rock music, David Bowie crops up as an incredibly important figure. He was at the forefront of some major trends, and the whole notion of reinventing yourself and your persona for different musical projects, of being a performer as much as a musician, is something that Bowie can take much of the credit for.

There was an exhibition on Bowie in Melbourne last year, which my parents went to. Now my mother could probably name a couple of Bowie songs, my father probably couldn't manage any, but they came away seriously impressed.

We're talking about a man who was a legend in one of the most popular fields of artistic endeavour in the world. So yeah, he deserves a fair bit of coverage.

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

I never understood the attraction of Bowie's music - didn't do anything for me. His death is a sad event, but I don't think he made a significant contribution to music. He was just another pop singer.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
orfeo: There was an exhibition on Bowie in Melbourne last year, which my parents went to.

I think the same exhibition is in the Netherlands right now. A big deal is made of the exhibition opening yesterday (when it would normally close on a Monday) to let mourners in.

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :

As a profoundly hard-of-hearing person who stopped trying to understand music about 1963 or so, I fear David Bowie passed me by. Not being completely ignorant, his name niggled at me until I googled him. I note that he was a near contemporary. 69 is fairly young to die, and I tend to mourn anyone who dies before his time of cancer. Too bad.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

FWIW, I can understand the shock, but I think this totally over-saturated "news" coverage (when there isn't actually anything much to say beyond what the family have said on social media) is pretty pathetic. Shame on the BBC.

Are you talking about Bowie or the pending breakup of the Anglican communion?

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I never understood the attraction of Bowie's music - didn't do anything for me. His death is a sad event, but I don't think he made a significant contribution to music. He was just another pop singer.

The music of Liszt doesn't do much for me and I don't really understand why some people are so strongly attracted to it. I don't therefore go on to conclude that he didn't make a significant contribution to music, given that his ideas about "program music" and the symphonic poem pretty much shaped classical music for two generations afterwards.

[ 12. January 2016, 05:35: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Am I missing something about UK culture? An actual creative person, one of your own dies, it's not okay that your media attends to same? Was the attention to Diana your princess as awful for you?

At least one of them made a significant and lasting contribution to our society [Two face]

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Am I missing something about UK culture? An actual creative person, one of your own dies, it's not okay that your media attends to same? Was the attention to Diana your princess as awful for you?
At least one of them made a significant and lasting contribution to our society

be fair, the other one wrote Space Oddity
[Big Grin]

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I never understood the attraction of Bowie's music - didn't do anything for me. His death is a sad event, but I don't think he made a significant contribution to music. He was just another pop singer.

Or just another bacon sandwich.

Does it ever occur to you that your experience is perhaps not the yardstick of all the fun and glory in the world?

Posted by Laurelin (# 17211) on :

quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I never understood the attraction of Bowie's music - didn't do anything for me. His death is a sad event, but I don't think he made a significant contribution to music. He was just another pop singer.

Oh come on now, he was most certainly NOT 'just another pop singer'. The man was an artist, a visionary, and his music was ground-breaking. I'm not even a fan, let alone a hardcore fan, but I did know he was a genius (plus, that beautiful voice) and his death has now got me seriously interested in his music. I've been listening to the Blackstar album, his requiem, and it's astounding.

I am one who found the coverage of Diana's death excessive ... I was moved by it, but the UK news coverage didn't cover ANYTHING ELSE at all that day.

I don't get affected by celebrity deaths, and I'm not in bits at Bowie's, but I do recognise that the man was a great artist whose musical influence was far-reaching.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I hope mr cheesy manages to avoid buying a UK paper today. It's even front-page news in the Financial Times.

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :

I'm someone who has respected him but never tried to listen to his music. I saw him at the Freddie Mercury Tribute Concert and he gave a very good performance. Anyone who could sing with Freddie or was respected by Freddie has got to be respected.

I heard his singing of part of "Comfortably Numb" with David Gilmour and it was ace, miles better than that twat Waters.

I preferred the music of Lemmy much more, someone else iconic whose status went beyond that of his genre (though Bowie had more genres). Sometimes someone dies who is an esssential part of music and culture itself.

Here in Poland people are mourning his death as well.

I've started, quite belatedly, to check out Bowie's music. "Life on Mars" is very nice. It's noteworthy that many have said things like "I wasn't into his music, but it's sad he's gone". That says something.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

OTOH, it's dropped off the BBC web pages - and presumably Broadcast news. So maybe if he just stays glued to the TV and radio and runs past any newsagents with his coat over his head, he can make it through?

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

You have to have some sort of admiration for someone who can write Lazarus

quote:
Look up here, I’m in heaven
I’ve got scars that can’t be seen
I’ve got drama, can’t be stolen
Everybody knows me now

take part in the related video, and then arrange to die right after their birthday and the album release.

Chilling stuff.

[ 12. January 2016, 11:37: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :

quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:

quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Am I missing something about UK culture? An actual creative person, one of your own dies, it's not okay that your media attends to same? Was the attention to Diana your princess as awful for you?
At least one of them made a significant and lasting contribution to our society
be fair, the other one wrote Space Oddity

Diana wrote Space Oddity? I never knew that

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

There is a very good CD by Brazilian singer Seu Jorge, doing acoustic Bowie covers with lyrics in Portuguese. Bowie himself said he liked it.

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
You have to have some sort of admiration for someone who can write Lazarus

quote:
Look up here, I’m in heaven
I’ve got scars that can’t be seen
I’ve got drama, can’t be stolen
Everybody knows me now
take part in the related video, and then arrange to die right after their birthday and the album release.

Chilling stuff.

Reminds me of how Freddie organised the manner to which his death became public both via press releases and through the video to "These are the days of our lives".

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
let us be honest, its not like he has the cultural significance of, say, Nigel Blackwell from Half Man Half Biscuit.
Some of us would argue that they were on a par. Mind, it's good to find another HMHB fan!

AG

I bet Justin Welby's got nothing but total respect for Annie Lennox.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I never understood the attraction of Bowie's music - didn't do anything for me. His death is a sad event, but I don't think he made a significant contribution to music. He was just another pop singer.
Or just another bacon sandwich.

Does it ever occur to you that your experience is perhaps not the yardstick of all the fun and glory in the world?

I would say most people use their preferences as the yardstick of what is good and important.
Lack of knowledge has never been an impediment to forming an opinion.
And I do not say this as a massive fan of Bowie.
Or as someone who has never do so themselves.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

These things are subjective. I see him as a major artist, comparable with Wordsworth or Blake, but if someone else sees him as a mediocre pop singer, I'm not going to fight a duel over it. There is no objective measure, after all.

I just remembered 'The Man Who Sold the World', and burst into tears. Damn, damn, damn, why has he gone?

Some are saying that there are 3 giants in popular music, Elvis, Sinatra, and Bowie, but we can always add more, e.g. Dylan.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
These things are subjective. I see him as a major artist, comparable with Wordsworth or Blake, but if someone else sees him as a mediocre pop singer, I'm not going to fight a duel over it. There is no objective measure, after all.

I just remembered 'The Man Who Sold the World', and burst into tears. Damn, damn, damn, why has he gone?

Some are saying that there are 3 giants in popular music, Elvis, Sinatra, and Bowie, but we can always add more, e.g. Dylan.

And Lennon.

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
These things are subjective. I see him as a major artist, comparable with Wordsworth or Blake, but if someone else sees him as a mediocre pop singer, I'm not going to fight a duel over it. There is no objective measure, after all.

I just remembered 'The Man Who Sold the World', and burst into tears. Damn, damn, damn, why has he gone?

Some are saying that there are 3 giants in popular music, Elvis, Sinatra, and Bowie, but we can always add more, e.g. Dylan.
And Lennon.

and Woolly Wolstenholme (IMO obviously)

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

My guess is that sadness in such cases (and I feel it) where one never interacted with the deceased, is an ego thing. Something from which we once derived identity, is dead. We are rudely aware that now if we have to explain it to someone, we're stuck in the 'but you should have heard him' speak of the really old, who we derided when Bowie (or whoever) was 'it'.

Richard Thompson's 'Al Bowlley's in heaven' is a kind of take on this, if you haven't heard it.

Anything which makes me feel like my Dad is a surefire cause of the profound blues.

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

Actually, a good measure of how great a person is is that they have not really made it until on their death someone complains that the hype is overblown.

If the world is concordant then it is only the fans who are listening and writing; it is the discord that says he has reached a wider audience.

Jengie

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Who said anything about watching anything? I was talking about the flagship radio morning news programme. 3 hours of news from 6 to 9 am.
The internet's full of it as well. Unlike Diana, it should only be 24 hours of saturation coverage, then back to normal.

TBH, I thought the whole Diana thing was completely over-done.

Bowie helped make growing up in Sarf London cool and gave it a soundtrack that few others could top.

I can't think of a single band that I like that hasn't cited him as a musical influence. Man was a blooming musical genius.

Hell, he even made bad Anthony Newley style records sound good and rocked a mullet. [Overused]

We're unlikely to see his like again and the world is a little poorer today.

Tubbs

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I'm fine with people not liking stuff. It's the 'I don't see the point/value, so obviously it can't have any' miserabilism I can't be doing with.

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I'm fine with people not liking stuff. It's the 'I don't see the point/value, so obviously it can't have any' miserabilism I can't be doing with.

Woo - musical atheism! It sucks just as much as theological atheism, but with even less harmony.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
]and Woolly Wolstenholme (IMO obviously)

I don't know which is causing me more consternation, the fact that someone thinks BJH is on the level of David Bowie or the fact that I caught the reference...

[Help]

Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :

I've no objection to a good BBC tribute to an iconic figure of the 20th Century, but they don't half over do it. They really do adore a good celebrity death.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Didn't watch any BBC yesterday.

This though is a rare thread whereby I've found myself nodding to much of lilBuddha's posting. I can only imagine that means I have been moved by the death of David Bowie.

It's often said Freddy stole the night at Live Aid. As I recall it Bowie who came on first and sung 'Heroes'. Combine that with the sultry Summer's evening and the show was ready to be stolen.

Also, when helping my brother with small party discos in late 70s, where young and old were often reluctant to let go and take to the dance floor, he found Bowie's Gene Genie rarely failed

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:

quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
let us be honest, its not like he has the cultural significance of, say, Nigel Blackwell from Half Man Half Biscuit.
Some of us would argue that they were on a par. Mind, it's good to find another HMHB fan!

AG
I bet Justin Welby's got nothing but total respect for Annie Lennox.

And the Joy of Sex video? LMFAO! Thank you EM for a real belly laugh.

AG

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
They really do adore a good celebrity death.

This is the first coverage criticism that I fully understand, regardless of one’s personal taste. There is sometimes an almost vulture-like quality to newscasters when they FINALLY get a good, interesting story full of bathos and tragedy. It’s like the weathermen who always seem the most excited when they are covering hurricanes, tornados, and the like.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

For me the tipping point into navel-gazing is when the media start reporting on the media response to an event, which the BBC were admittedly (and alas unsurprisingly) guilty of.

It's all a long way from the likes of Brian Perkins and the gravitas of the World Service's "This Is London".

[ 12. January 2016, 21:42: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

Whether or not somebody is a good singer or songwriter is definitely a matter of taste. Whether not someone has had an affect on a lot of other artists is not subjective. You ask the other artists, "Did this person have an influence on your art?" If millions of artists say that he did, then the idea that his influence was not far-reaching is knocked into a cocked hat.

In short, quality can be debated because there is no way of arriving at an objective measure of quality. The reach of someone's influence is pretty easy to measure.

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :

There's also a lot of wonder at a man who lived a life with a lot of breadth. And the stories are genuinely amusing. Like the one coming out now about how he maintained his anonymity taking cabs and the subway in New York by simply always going around with a Greek language paper.

The sheer volume of people who interacted with his work and life is something to behold. In a couple of days, the latest issue will take hold and all this will be blown away. In the meantime, the stages of grief are being served. Let people mourn a loss.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
For me the tipping point into navel-gazing is when the media start reporting on the media response to an event, which the BBC were admittedly (and alas unsurprisingly) guilty of.

This is standard behaviour in an age where "journalism" has largely become the ability to regurgitate other people's words. Sometimes what's being regurgitated is other people's press releases or press conferences, but for larger events it shifts to regurgitating other people's Facebook, Twitter and the like.

Why come up with your own thoughts when you can fulfil your requirements by repeating someone else's?

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

He sang for us all at the bleeding edge: We're absolute beginners.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

I liked this article about David Bowie and Queen: Under Pressure

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I liked this article about David Bowie and Queen: Under Pressure

Thanks for that link; I liked it a lot.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I think there is a five free articles per month limit on Slate, or something like that.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Forty years ago I recoiled from him, post-Major Tom.

But at the depth of my cultic alienation he spoke to me IN that. Re-enforcing it, yet ... with Five Years, a perfect Millennialist anthem.

He subverted me. God bless him.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Damn, I'm in tears at this. I never mourned for a celebrity like this before. Under Pressure - Bowie, Lennox, Queen

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I think there is a five free articles per month limit on Slate, or something like that.

If there is, it's news to me, especially given that I read about that many every day without paying.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

Slate has a set of premium articles you have to pay for called slate plus. The regular ones are free.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

We're now getting wall to wall coverage of Terry Wogan. If I hear that Janet & John story one more time I'll take a sledgehammer to the radio.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
We're now getting wall to wall coverage of Terry Wogan. If I hear that Janet & John story one more time I'll take a sledgehammer to the radio.

Lighten up, take a chill pill, learn from Sir Terry - stop taking life so seriously.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

What Janet & John story ?

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
What Janet & John story ?

Every week Terry did a spoof of a Janet and John story, lots of hints at double meanings.

Here is one from March '09

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
What Janet & John story ?
Every week Terry did a spoof of a Janet and John story, lots of hints at double meanings.

Here is one from March '09

Absolutely fucking hilarious [Snore]

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

On the Metro Scale of Bereavement it's 5pp in this morning's paper. Not as much as David Bowie but more than Alan Rickman, who only got 4. Frank Finlay just got one smallish article on a corner of one of Wogan's pages.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
What Janet & John story ?

Janet and John

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

Even Thought for the Day on Radio 4 this morning was about St Terry.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

I was quite taken aback when D. phoned his mum on Sunday at about 5 o'clock UK time, and she said that Songs of Praise had been broadcast earlier because the rest of the day's schedule was being devoted to a tribute to Sir Terry.

National treasure, fair enough, but it did seem a tad excessive.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

I fear that D. was misinformed. When I looked up Songs of Praise on the BBC website on Sunday afternoon (and discovered that I'd missed it!) I found that it was early because they were broadcasting a live football match: MK Dons vs. Chelsea in the FA Cup, to be precise.

Now there were a couple of short programmes scheduled between SoP ending and the footie starting, so they may have replaced one or both of them with a tribute to Terry - I don't know. But most of the afternoon was definitely devoted to football (I saw a bit of it myself), and the rest of the day followed as scheduled with News, "Country File", "Call the Midwife" and the next episode of "War and Peace", all of which I watched!

[ 02. February 2016, 16:51: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

My apologies: maybe one (or both) of us got the wrong end of the stick.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I can't find the Top Gear thread, but anyway, stroke of genius to pick LeBlanc for this. He will bring in viewers.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0