Ship of Fools: Are hymn meters different in Welsh?

Thread: Are hymn meters different in Welsh? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=030380

Posted by Wm Dewy (# 16712) on :

Several years ago, I attended a Gymanfa Ganu where I believe the song leader said that while common meter in English is (iambic) 8,6,8,6, common meter in Welsh is (trochaic) 8,7,8,7. Does anyone on the ship know if this is so? Perhaps I misunderstood.
If this is the wrong board, I ask your forgiveness and re-direction.

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

I've never heard of that personally, nor found it when picking hymns and matching tunes to them. Anybody else?

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

My perception of welsh language constructions is that 32,46,32,48 would be a more common metre

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

Do I detect a Point of View there, Zappa?
[Big Grin]

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

I'm not 'musical' - at least not in the 'taught' sense - so I can't really comment on hymn-metres. My wife probably could.

I'm not sure there is any substantial difference between Welsh hymn-tune metres and English or other ones ... I'll ask my wife.

I do think that Welsh hymn tunes tend to be in the minor key, though - but that's different.

I do write poetry and although I can manage iambics and so on, I often say that the standard, received wisdom about alternating stressed and unstressed syllables in English verse doesn't apply so readily to people with Welsh accents as we tend to put the stress in a different place ... the accent is always on the penulTIMate syllable in Welsh accented speech - and this is what gives it a characteristic lilt.

The Scots have a different stress pattern too - although, of course, both the Scots and the Welsh are familiar with the standard stress pattern in English.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

The metres are exactly the same: that is, they describe the number of syllables per line.

What may be different is the label given to some metres - but then you'll find English common metre isn't common metre in Germany either...

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

I suspect that "common meter" is determined by the modal metre for the metrical psalms in that language. There is, therefore, no reason the common meter should be the same in different languages. It might well depend on the preferred meter of a small number of lyricists.

Never thought that a liturgical question might come down to simple statistical definitions.

Jengie

Posted by dyfrig (# 15) on :

According to the index of metres in "Caneuon Ffydd"

Short metre 6686
Welsh short metre 6786
Common metre 8686
Psalm metre 8787
Long metre 8888

Posted by Wm Dewy (# 16712) on :

quote:
Originally posted by dyfrig:
According to the index of metres in "Caneuon Ffydd"

Short metre 6686
Welsh short metre 6786
Common metre 8686
Psalm metre 8787
Long metre 8888

And all huzzah! Thank you, dyfrig. That's a good lead on the subject.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0